New York Times: "Equestrian Rider's Recovery Serves as Reminder"

[JER]

From the NY Times (02/22/09): "Equestrian Rider's Recovery Serves as Reminder" (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/23/sports/othersports/23rider.html)

NYT writer Katie Thomas follows up her eventing safety articles of last year with an excellent piece on Darren Chiacchia's recovery and return to the sport.

Some excerpts:

“The sport has looked at itself very seriously, and has made some adjustments that had been looked at before,” said David O’Connor, the president of the equestrian federation. “And those are having an effect worldwide, as well as in our country.”

Chiacchia said the safety measures did not go far enough, were too slow in coming, and focused too much on the behavior of riders, something that did not contribute to his fall. He said he would like to see the sport mandate the use of breakable fences, for example, rather than put money toward studying them.

“To make the sport safer, we have to make some fairly aggressive changes, and unfortunately the leadership of the equestrian community does not feel the same way,” he said.

Ralph Hill, an Olympic rider who spent eight weeks in a coma after a similar accident in 2007, said he was impressed with Chiacchia’s drive. “What Darren did was he acted like a competitor; he wanted to show everybody that he could still compete,” said Hill, who is back riding and teaching but has not yet returned to competition. “Right now, if you saw him riding, I believe that you would probably say he’s a good rider, but wonder how many years he’s been in the sport.”

The article gives a sobering, empathetic view of Darren C in particular and TBIs in general. Brain injury is a complex issue as well as a very emotional one and it's clear he's been through a lot.

I know Katie Thomas has posted here before and hope she still checks in from time to time. This is a really good article for a mainstream paper and I applaud her continuing interest in eventing.

[LexInVA]

Well this is going to raise a few eyebrows...

[flyingchange]

Oh boy. Break out the booze and popcorn. Pop, crunch crunch.

[LexInVA]

So you like to drink a 40 while munching on your cheddar popcorn?

[JER]

Well this is going to raise a few eyebrows...

And perhaps some hackles as well.

[BaroquePony]

Quoted from an article referencing Chiacchia:

He said he would like to see the sport mandate the use of breakable fences, for example, rather than put money toward studying them.

Oh, God, this is a really poor statement, and one reason I am considering not eventing at all any more. Definately puts a kink in my plans.

Building fences that will break without any study related to how they might collapse in unpredictable ways is not a very good idea IMO.

Anyway, back to your popcorn and beer.

[SevenDogs]

Oh boy. Break out the booze and popcorn. Pop, crunch crunch.

I think the importance of a balanced diet can not be ignored. Can we have some sugary snacks to balance out the salt and the booze? We might be here awhile.... :lol:

[imissvixen]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/23/sports/othersports/23rider.html


Ooops sorry I see this was already posted. Mods, please delete.

[silver pine]

I have several concerns here:
1. "He can be excused some mistakes"
FALSE: not when the life of the horse is at risk.

2."Because he still does not fully trust his organizational skills, he has hired a business manager, Lisa Marong. “He just wasn’t sure what he could handle,” she said."
FALSE: If you can not balance your check book you cant balance your horse around an advanced course. Sorry, but upper level executive brain function impairment does not stop because you motorically feel comfortable in the saddle.

This is bad for the sport. Sorry Daren, I wish you much personal success and you are of course entitled to earn a living in the equestrian world. I just wish you would not compete.

[FlightCheck]

and Coronas with lime...

Having had more unpleasant encounters with Darren this winter than I care to count, I will just take the "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" road.

[Ajierene]

Besides other concerns, something else caught my eye. He apparently (this is a NY Times article so some facts may have been misinterpreted) did four wrong movements of a dressage test and was allowed to start over. Maybe he was at an unrecognized event and they cut him some slack. But at a recognized event, is this allowed?

I worry both because this could be a sign of mental unhealth and because it appears to me that this may be a case of an professional getting slack where an amateur would not be.

The concerns about issues balancing the checkbook and riding remind me of a story I read in a sports magazine. The college girl was in a horrific car accident. Prior to this, she was a basketball star - getting a scholarship for it. After this, she suffered from amnesia, not even remembering her father. She remembered nothing, including reading and writing, but when they put a basketball in her hands, she remembered and picked up the moves VERY quickly. I think that has a lot to do with all the conditioning done in practice. So the fact that he cannot balance a checkbook but still ride is not out of the realm of possibility.

[asterix]

I agree, JER, article was very well done. 'nuff said on Darren; that was a pretty choice couple of words from Ralph, no?

[Ajierene]

Apparently there are two threads about this same article, so I am going to post here as well...because I want to know stuff!

Besides other concerns, something else caught my eye. He apparently (this is a NY Times article so some facts may have been misinterpreted) did four wrong movements of a dressage test and was allowed to start over. Maybe he was at an unrecognized event and they cut him some slack. But at a recognized event, is this allowed?

I worry both because this could be a sign of mental unhealth and because it appears to me that this may be a case of an professional getting slack where an amateur would not be. Am I wrong?

The concerns about issues balancing the checkbook and riding remind me of a story I read in a sports magazine. The college girl was in a horrific car accident. Prior to this, she was a basketball star - getting a scholarship for it. After this, she suffered from amnesia, not even remembering her father. She remembered nothing, including reading and writing, but when they put a basketball in her hands, she remembered and picked up the moves VERY quickly. I think that has a lot to do with all the conditioning done in practice. So the fact that he cannot balance a checkbook but still ride is not out of the realm of possibility.

[joharavhf]

I don't comment on these types of things that often, but wanted to say a few things after reading this article.

PERSONALLY, I am a bit confused. He wants to be on the Olympic team in 2012, but is persuing other career options (horse sales / real estate). Which one is it?

I think it's a good thing that we are seeing a bit of Jekyll and Hyde. Maybe Darren is realizing that he's not invincible and perhaps becoming a little less arrogant?????

[deltawave]

If you make an error in a dressage test, the judge will stop you and allow you to restart or start over at their discretion. I've seen this happen any number of times, especially when a rider is clearly doing the wrong test. I wouldn't read too much into that one. He'd get an error penalty, but not an "E".

It's a lay-press piece. Nothing I read makes me get all up in arms about DC's return to riding. I'm over that. :) If the USEA doesn't care, why should I? :sigh:

[Ajierene]

Thanks deltawave. I thought you got an elimination. I have seen pretty crazy looking tests that were allowed to continue, but only at unrecognized shows.

[subk]

Besides other concerns, something else caught my eye. He apparently (this is a NY Times article so some facts may have been misinterpreted) did four wrong movements of a dressage test and was allowed to start over. Maybe he was at an unrecognized event and they cut him some slack. But at a recognized event, is this allowed?
The first error of the test is a 2 point penalty and you get to start again at the place you made the error. The second error in the same test is a 4 point penalty and you get to start again at the place you made the error. The third error in the same test is an elimination and you are excused from the ring. Four errors in the same test is a problem if that is what occurred.

[Ajierene]

missed the first few maneuvers of his dressage test during a low-level competition here, the judge asked him to stop midsequence.

From their brief exchange, Chiacchia realized he had memorized the wrong test and started over. “It could have happened to anyone,” said Chiacchia, who took four more horses through four more tests without missing a move.

So, kind of hazy.. a 'few maneuvers'. Oh well. No big deal.

[Waterwitch]

Chiacchia said the safety measures did not go far enough, were too slow in coming, and focused too much on the behavior of riders, something that did not contribute to his fall.

If this is accurate, this comment really rubs me the wrong way.

[Kementari]

FWIW, I know plenty of people who cannot (reliably) balance a checkbook, but do just fine in other endeavors, even strenuous intellectual ones. :yes:

[caffeinated]

FWIW, I know plenty of people who cannot (reliably) balance a checkbook, but do just fine in other endeavors, even strenuous intellectual ones.

I resemble that remark!!!

[magnolia73]

Real Estate? That is so random.

[vineyridge]

If this is accurate, this comment really rubs me the wrong way.

That's what I picked up on as well. He's a male version of LA these days. And if he doesn't remember anything himself, how would he know?

[ddashaq]

FWIW, I know plenty of people who cannot (reliably) balance a checkbook, but do just fine in other endeavors, even strenuous intellectual ones. :yes:

Yep, I am one of those people too!;)

[Kementari]

It sounds to me like he just started the wrong test - a mistake that many people have made at one time or another. He clearly knew the correct one, as well, if he was able to start over and perform it immediately thereafter. Getting a few movements in before being rung out isn't that unusual; I've seen it happen a couple of times and had it happen to me at a dressage show (though in my case I was doing the correct test; the judge's sheet was incorrect - everyone makes mistakes! ;)). I had made two or three "errors" before the judge rung me out and said I looked to have memorized the wrong test.

The only thing that irritates me, really, is the idea that we should just use collapsible fences without bothering to find out if they actually WORK, and what the potential side effects might be. :no:

I don't know the man, so I can't comment on any of that, and I'm not sure that his likability has anything to do with the issues at hand, anyway.

[tle]

If this is accurate, this comment really rubs me the wrong way.

My thoughts EXACTLY!! After all, Mr. Chiacchia couldn't POSSIBLY be at fault so why should we spend all this time focusing on what the rider is/has been/can do. UGH!

[pinkdiamondracing]

FWIW, I know plenty of people who cannot (reliably) balance a checkbook, but do just fine in other endeavors, even strenuous intellectual ones. :yes:

I can remember phone numbers still from ten years ago, but I cannot for the life of me balance a checkbook!!!:D:D Thank goodness for e-mail balance notifications!! LOL:yes::yes:

[silver pine]

Muscle memory is a wonderful thing, as evidenced by the basket ball story. Riding is a very muscle memory based sport, dressage, trail riding ect, when jumping solid objects at high speed with a horses life in your hands I would think executive function should be able to over ride the muscle memory if need be.

I was simply stating that it's a shame that while he can recognize deficits outside of his equestrian life (financial managements- that we was doing himself prior to injury) He chooses not to recgonize how theses same deficits could play a role over fences.
Just my thoughts.

S.P.

[BaroquePony]

Chiacchia:

and focused too much on the behavior of riders, something that did not contribute to his fall.

Yeah, I thought this comment was definately not showing critical thought processes.

[FrittSkritt]

You'd think DC would supply a better photo (rather than the one on page 2 that has him jumping waaaay ahead and lying on his horse's neck) if he wanted us to believe he's back to being a 'safe' rider...

[deltawave]

The way I read it, he did the first few/four moves of a test wrong, not four sequential errors. It may have taken the judge that long to figure out he was doing the wrong test. Been there, done that, a testament to the power of MY memory that I was able to memorize a different test in 30 seconds flat. :) Now I watch the riders before me and make sure they're doing the test I'm planning on doing. :lol:

[crittertwitter]

It appears that the tight anal neuroses that permeate the fashion, psychology, and entertainment (and a couple of other equestrian) industries have caught on in eventing. In psychology, you see the standard of normal and healthy grow more and more narrow, until even the slightest glimpse of character or personality is pathologized and problematized and any young, curious energy is medicated. And only this one certain, inhuman shape should be seen on the cover of a magazine. Etc. Etc. Etc.

On the one hand, it seems the criticisms sprawled out by many posters think only Perfect people should compete at the upper levels in eventing. And on another thread, the approved Perfect people should be limited to only 4 or 5 rides per event.

Can we please not move into hyper regulation of every element of the sport and stop acting as hypervigilant theorists of safety? There is absolutely no room for reality or riding in this little S&M world of eventing theory.

Can we strive to make the sport safer while allowing for the Reality of human and equine error that will always exist regardless of how much bureaucracy you fertilize?

[seeuatx]

Chiacchia said the safety measures...focused too much on the behavior of riders, something that did not contribute to his fall
Oh REALLY? Hmmm, I did not know that Mr. Chiacchia was so perfect that there was no way he made a mistake.

He said he would like to see the sport mandate the use of breakable fences, for example, rather than put money toward studying them.


When did he get his engineering license or his PHD is physics? I don't have either, and I certainly don't think I know anything about making sure fences break CORRECTLY. I do know (from high school physics... Thank You Mr. Marshall) that if a fence broke the wrong way under intense pressure that the results could be catastrophic to both horse and rider. So yeah, I think these breakable fences need to be studied before being implemented.

I wish nothing but the best for Mr. Chiacchia, and I do hope he makes a full recovery, but some of his statements obviously rubbed me the wrong way.

[caevent]

I wonder what exactly Ralph Hill means by watching Chiacchia and thinking he's a good rider, but wondering how many years he's been in the sport? Does that mean that his riding skills aren't back to that which one would expect of any Olympic rider? Anyone seen Darren riding this year care to comment? Not trying to bash anyone, just trying to figure out the comment. :sadsmile:

[fordtraktor]

I am empathetic to DC's statement that the rider was not the cause of this fall, from a slightly different perspective: if our talented Olympians cannot get around courses safely, there is no hope for the rest of us who are far more likely to make a mistake every now and then.

[seeuatx]

I am empathetic to DC's statement that the rider was not the cause of this fall, from a slightly different perspective: if our talented Olympians cannot get around courses safely, there is no hope for the rest of us who are far more likely to make a mistake every now and then.

Now, that would be a statement I could get behind. Maybe it was just the way it was written in the article that rubbed me the wrong way.

[LexInVA]

You can certainly look at his statements from at least two different opposing points of view but I think many people in the sport who are familiar with him are going to simply look at it as another manifestation of his arrogance and often alleged egomania, which from nearly all accounts of those who have experienced the gift from God that is Darren, goes largely unchecked. The real question here is just what exactly is he saying if he's not saying it as we read it. When it comes to giving interviews, saying EXACTLY what you mean is more important than how you say it and in this case it could really go either way.

[Classic Melody]

You can certainly look at his statements from at least two different opposing points of view but I think many people in the sport who are familiar with him are going to simply look at it as another manifestation of his arrogance and often alleged egomania, which from nearly all accounts of those who have experienced the gift from God that is Darren, goes largely unchecked. The real question here is just what exactly is he saying if he's not saying it as we read it. When it comes to giving interviews, saying EXACTLY what you mean is more important than how you say it and in this case it could really go either way.

True, but I don’t think the reporter aggrandized Darren without his express help, given he’s already known for his outsized personality. She either: 1. took DC’s word that he was not responsible, or 2. Asked David O’Connor or any number of other big deal people she interviewed for the first story and asked, “Was Darren’s fall a result of bad riding?” And you can bet they would have all said no. So, the statement is not bad reporting IMHO.

The article is extremely empathetic towards Darren overall, for better or worse. Love Ralph's comments though - a great perspective to add to the situation.

[blackwly]

Two pieces that I found interesting:

"Chiacchia said the safety measures did not go far enough, were too slow in coming, and focused too much on the behavior of riders, something that did not contribute to his fall. He said he would like to see the sport mandate the use of breakable fences, for example, rather than put money toward studying them."

I'm interested in how he has determined that his behavior in no way contributed to his accident. I'm not saying it did, but that is an interesting blanket statement.

"Ralph Hill, an Olympic rider who spent eight weeks in a coma after a similar accident in 2007, said he was impressed with Chiacchia’s drive. “What Darren did was he acted like a competitor; he wanted to show everybody that he could still compete,” said Hill, who is back riding and teaching but has not yet returned to competition. “Right now, if you saw him riding, I believe that you would probably say he’s a good rider, but wonder how many years he’s been in the sport.”

[JER]

We really should have one thread on this.

Blackwly, those sections you quote are the sections I excerpted from the article for the OP on the original thread -- and they're being discussed over there.
:)

[JER]

The empathy for Darren isn't about his riding, it's about his brain injury and its consequences.

I think Katie Thomas did a good job at getting beyond the "miraculous comeback" and showing how Darren continues to be affected by his TBI.

[goobs]

I think Ralph's comment as to Darren's riding meant that Darren is riding more cautiously over xc than he did before (with time penalties) - not like someone who has been at the Olympics, etc. (and making the time). I've seen him ride and he does ride more cautiously. So Ralph's assessment (IMO) wasn't slamming Darren or his riding.

[RAyers]

I don't see that. Ralph is not so naive to think that somebody going slow and cautiously would be mistaken for a poor rider.

I too think that one can see DC's riding is not a quality that I would expect from somebody at the upper levels. I watched him closely on stadium several times and I have seen/know mid-level jumper riders who ride much more consistently and quietly on course. Thus, I would suspect there are still neural issues.

From a pure stadium point of view, I would put DC at an intermediate rider level, where a rider is still all over the place with their hands, tending to yank and then kick, taking energy away from the horse. His balance is good but his decisions are not consistent.

[MintHillFarm]

I am all for jumps that fall down...I have never evented, only showed hunters and jumpers so I probably shouldn't comment. I will read the article in the NY Times though I do agree Ajierene that this paper could easily not have the facts right. Thanks for posting the the link.

[silver pine]

Fine motor adjustments are the last to return, thus his position -leg seat ect. may globally look ok, but the finer adjustments are lacking. So Reed, your observations are not surprising.

I don't know the man, only the effects of impact on the brain and the body.
I don't think he or anyone else is safe to ride (at such a high level) for a long time (years) after such a catastrophic insult to the brain.

I wish him good decision making...

[merrygoround]

I cannot help agreeing with RAyers. Ralph has a keen eye for flow, and rythmn. He knows what he expects to see in an event rider.

As for getting a restart in a dressage test, I remember to this day carefully reviewing my test, and heading up the center line and turning the wrong way, because I had carefully reviewed the wrong test. :confused: I got a restart from a very gracious, laughing judge. :)

[retreadeventer]

Proof that eventing has certified crazy people with big mouths participating in this sport and we give them medals, put them on teams, and publish their drivel in the New York Times. He's all done.

[asterix]

Not knowing Ralph, or how the article was edited, I certainly came away with the impression that Ralph felt he wasn't riding to the level; and I think that was the point of putting that quote in there. KT has done a good job before and has again with this article, letting the various pieces of the puzzle be present without the end result being either confusing to a non-insider or inaccurate.

[RAyers]

I cannot help agreeing with RAyers...


Sorry to force you into that situation. ;)

Reed

[Gnep]

I have to agree with Darren, most of the new rules are nothing but band aids, window dressing and do not adress the emidiat problem of horses and riders geting killed over jumps.

Research is nice and important, no question about that, but we can use building methods, today, that will help to prevent the worst accidents.
A rotational as Phlipin D had, is absolutely no problem to prevent, I have a Weldons Wall built, will be installed at my place this spring, which will not allow rotationals, even already existing WW could be changed, cost $100. There is already a similar design installed at the Colorado Horse Park.
A lot could be done building wise.

A lot could be done equipment wise, protectif vests, helmets etc.

[Mary in Area 1]

Wait, if Darren is blaming his fall on the safety measures being too slow in coming, isn't that a personal criticism as well? After all, wasn't Darren the Chair of the Safety Committee or something???

[JER]

It sounds to me like Darren is saying "Do something now, using what we have available", which is a reasonable suggestion.

A frangible pin (but probably not possible for that cannon fence but then maybe a cannon fence isn't a great idea) would have helped Darren. An EXO vest would have helped Darren. Anything else?

The one-fall rule wouldn't have helped him. The Watch List wouldn't have helped him.

A strictly-enforced Return to Play policy would definitely protect someone like him from returning to the sport too early. IMO, his 'mistake' in the dressage test, coupled with his 'mistake' in entering the SJ arena during someone else's round, should put him on the Watch List -- not as a punishment but as a safety measure if he needs to be protected from himself. (The fact that he has a recent TBI is a significant factor here.)

[texang73]

Much agreed Reed. That's how I viewed Ralph's statement.

[JER]

This story is currently the #1 most-emailed story in the NYT's sports section and #13 on the most-emailed list for all NYT stories.

(Proof that eventing is may actually be interesting to the general public!)

[mbarrett]

In regards to Darren Chiacchia's remark about putting money toward breakable fences, we have them, they're called stadium fences. Let's all drag them to a big field and set them up during an event. Then we can do cross country with breakable fences! Maybe some Pony Club kids or students from the high school art club can paint the fences in "natural" colors - browns, tans with green leaves painted on the standards.

Give me a break. What a crazy comment. I don't think Darren has fully recovered from his accident.

Most of us want research based changes to our sport. With data and studies by really smart people. Then reasonable and scientifically based changes can be made to eventing that keeps us all safer. But most of all, we need to ride more, take more lessons and become better riders first. Maybe compete a level below where we are schooling? Think a little about our actions... Sorry for the tangent.

It must be spring, the crazy threads are starting up. Darren needs to be saved from himself.

[coriander]

I don't see that. Ralph is not so naive to think that somebody going slow and cautiously would be mistaken for a poor rider.

I too think that one can see DC's riding is not a quality that I would expect from somebody at the upper levels. I watched him closely on stadium several times and I have seen/know mid-level jumper riders who ride much more consistently and quietly on course. Thus, I would suspect there are still neural issues.

From a pure stadium point of view, I would put DC at an intermediate rider level, where a rider is still all over the place with their hands, tending to yank and then kick, taking energy away from the horse. His balance is good but his decisions are not consistent.

It is entirely to be expected, given the TBI sustained, that there are still neural issues. I think Ralph probably has a better idea of that than many, and was being tactful with his remarks. I suspect that the conditioning required of an upper level athlete explains some of the physical recovery, and conditioned muscle memory accounts for the balance in the saddle. But there are going to be lingering neural effects of the TBI, whether DC wants to acknowledge or deny them. Some might suggest the denial itself is evidence of the effects...

Carry on.

[Gnep]

coriander
it takes along time to heal, far longer than people think

[2ndyrgal]

but it isn't just muscle memory alone. While Ralph was recovering it was interesting. He could read McDonald's, but not necessarily remember they sold hamburgers, however, when watching showjumping on the telly, before he could even walk unaided, he could critique a ride and not miss a single nuance of it. So there were "cognitive" things about horses and riding that he never lost for a minute after he regained true conciousness. So it could be, that not only does the muscle memory kick in, but the eye for the distance and the mental knowing whether to go or whoa. Do I think DC should have returned to upper level competition so quickly? Probably not, and it will only be a mistake if a horse is killed or hurt from a misjudgement on Darren's part. The biggest problem I see with it is if he has another severe brain trauma, he might have nothing left. It is however, ultimately his choice.

[Hony]

You'd think DC would supply a better photo (rather than the one on page 2 that has him jumping waaaay ahead and lying on his horse's neck) if he wanted us to believe he's back to being a 'safe' rider...

To his credit we all look like that at the point of take off, even KOC. It's just that moment in time on the take off where everyone looks like they are ahead. I hate when photographers get that shot....I'd love to burn them all!

I have watched Darren's fall and am of the opinion that the horse put in a stride where a stride was not warrented. I can see why he wants more use of safer fences.
Certainly it remains important to look at the overall picture though and work on fence design as well as rider responsibility.

[nature]

In regards to Darren Chiacchia's remark about putting money toward breakable fences, we have them, they're called stadium fences. Let's all drag them to a big field and set them up during an event. Then we can do cross country with breakable fences! Maybe some Pony Club kids or students from the high school art club can paint the fences in "natural" colors - browns, tans with green leaves painted on the standards.



Remember, now horses have to jump cheese wedges with mouse heads sticking out!!!!!

[deltawave]

Shoot, the hunter people are kicking our butts nowadays with knock-down-able fences that look like XC jumps. Seen those Hunter Derbies (is that what they call them) they have now? Awesome, beautiful, natural-looking solid-type jumps, banks, etc. . . and jumped out of a perfect hand gallop with gorgeous form! AND they're not small. Almost makes me want to do the hunters again. :)

Do I want those jumps out on my XC courses? Mmmm, I'm not sure. But in general I'd rather jump something that legitimately fell down in a predictable fashion under predictable circumstances than some styrofoam sausage or cheese wedge that might or might not do what it's expected to do. :p

[mbarrett]

Shoot, the hunter people are kicking our butts nowadays with knock-down-able fences that look like XC jumps. Seen those Hunter Derbies (is that what they call them) they have now? Awesome, beautiful, natural-looking solid-type jumps, banks, etc. . . and jumped out of a perfect hand gallop with gorgeous form! AND they're not small. Almost makes me want to do the hunters again. :)

Do I want those jumps out on my XC courses? Mmmm, I'm not sure. But in general I'd rather jump something that legitimately fell down in a predictable fashion under predictable circumstances than some styrofoam sausage or cheese wedge that might or might not do what it's expected to do. :p

Wow, that's the ticket. Natural looking fences that do fall down. The folks in hunterland are on to something with their Hunter Derbies! Maybe we should adopt some of their ideas.

[JER]

The article is now at #9 in top 10 most-emailed stories for the New York Times.

If we go by this list, eventing is more popular than Tom Friedman. :lol: (I'm so looking forward to the day when he's gone from their op-ed pages.)

[JSwan]

Shoot, the hunter people are kicking our butts nowadays with knock-down-able fences that look like XC jumps. Seen those Hunter Derbies (is that what they call them) they have now? Awesome, beautiful, natural-looking solid-type jumps, banks, etc. . . and jumped out of a perfect hand gallop with gorgeous form! AND they're not small. Almost makes me want to do the hunters again. :)



Hurdles (steeplechasing) have giant foam wedges in front of the obstacles. They are wrapped in heavy tarp and form a single piece.

It becomes sort of an air-bag but is easily put back together if there is an accident.

I'm told they are very expensive, though. That cost would be passed on to the competitor, I guess. They also take a lot of manpower to put together properly.

Haven't seen any cheese wedges except at the tailgates.

[Gnep]

mbarett
I am very much old school, very old school. I cut my teeth in the late 60 and 70 and I love courses that scare the living sh.. out of you. It makes you save, if you can handle to be scared, if you can not handle it, leave.
That is how I see it and how I grew up.
But times have changed, even I have to admit that.
It is no problem to design jumps and built jumps for X-C, that will prevent the most comon killer problem. There is nothing wrong with that.
There is nothing wrong with wearing the best and savest of all helmets.
There is nothing wrong with wearing the best of all and savest of all vests.
There is nothing wrong with developing and using jumps that are saver.

None of it should take anything out of Eventing, the thrill, the test, thats what it is all about.

I can place a stadium jumps at a place that would scare the living hell out of you, not unsave just plain scary and I bet I can make you refuse, You, not your horse and I jump that jump with a horse 1 level below your horse.
2 12 packs, your choise.

X-C is not about savety, its about design, the save jumps are just a seat belt or a airbag.
They will not prevent accidents they reduce the consiquences.
You are not dead, you just spent a week in the hospital.
Your saver vest will prevent you from geting killed, but you will have to deal with broken legs and arms or hips and so on and so on.

Wold you buy a car from China. Probably not

[silver2]

He said he would like to see the sport mandate the use of breakable fences, for example
I thought that the cannon fence did break when he hit it?

All these stories make me wonder how much of the "crazy horse person" stereotype is down to brain damaged horse people.

[mbarrett]

mbarett
I am very much old school, very old school. I cut my teeth in the late 60 and 70 and I love courses that scare the living sh.. out of you. It makes you save, if you can handle to be scared, if you can not handle it, leave.
That is how I see it and how I grew up.
But times have changed, even I have to admit that.
It is no problem to design jumps and built jumps for X-C, that will prevent the most comon killer problem. There is nothing wrong with that.
There is nothing wrong with wearing the best and savest of all helmets.
There is nothing wrong with wearing the best of all and savest of all vests.
There is nothing wrong with developing and using jumps that are saver.

None of it should take anything out of Eventing, the thrill, the test, thats what it is all about.

I can place a stadium jumps at a place that would scare the living hell out of you, not unsave just plain scary and I bet I can make you refuse, You, not your horse and I jump that jump with a horse 1 level below your horse.
2 12 packs, your choise.

X-C is not about savety, its about design, the save jumps are just a seat belt or a airbag.
They will not prevent accidents they reduce the consiquences.
You are not dead, you just spent a week in the hospital.
Your saver vest will prevent you from geting killed, but you will have to deal with broken legs and arms or hips and so on and so on.

Wold you buy a car from China. Probably not

Gnep, I was being sarcastic.

[tecumsea]

Ok I am going to sit back and watch this, I am from a bit of the old school days and believe it is how we are building the courses, they use to be built for the gallop, now they are built to be technical, wrong for galloping, yes we need technical but not the whole course.

beer open and ready for the drinking

[Toadie's mom]

FWIW.. this is from the "horse's mouth". He said b4 the accident he had a photographic memory, but now he doesn't. He also said a bunch of other crap that was just annoying, so I won't go there. But anyway, I guess that explains the dressage mistakes :no: