Frustrated with finding a quality trainer

[EventingAlter4]

I live in an area with almost no eventers but many dressage, hunters, and western barns. I have an event trainer who lives a few hours away who I absolutely love.

Lately I have been getting so frustrated with the quality of training around here. I have considered leaving my current (dressage) barn for a little while now but end up staying. Anyway, there aren't too many options, but I am getting fed up and am looking around again at those options.

I'm planning on visiting a couple of the dressage trainer's barns I have not seen yet and possibly some of the hunter/jumper barns in the area. Most of (and actually probablly all) of the dressage trainers in the area teach and train their horses with the German Riding School in mind, a couple even have gone/go over there to train. However, from the reading I have done, IMO the old trainers from the classical GRS would not exactly approve of what the trainers brand as the "German way."

Sometimes I wonder if I am just crazy or giving up too easily. The trainer at my current barn is quite well certified on paper, but the whole "German way" just seems so much like using a lot of strength and force against the horse. She has gotten on my horse several times, and he seems to feel great afterward but it also seems like a bad cycle where I always have to get the trainer to ride my horse. I think to myself, what is the point of riding if I am not learning to ride my horse, and the only way to get him the way she wants is for her to get on him? I have a big, strong horse who will use all of his strength to resist against you if he doesn't want to work that day. In theory it makes sense to have the much bigger, stronger trainer get on him to get him to give, but I just think there has got to be a better way where I can get him soft and supple without the constant asking, asking, asking and deeper, deeper, deeper.

Many of the trainers lease barns from BO, and the BO are in charge of hiring workers, ordering feed, etc. The horses at some of these barns have good pasture, hay, and quality feed. They have great vets, farriers, and have massage therapy, chiropractors, and acupuncturists. They are ridden in amazing footing and have custom tack. However, I have seen 4 year olds taken into the rings with all kinds of contraptions on, and the trainer swinging and snapping a lunge whip around to practice piaffe and passage in hand. I have seen horses ridden in contraptions I did not know existed.

I mean I guess it probably seems like a no brainer...go to a another barn and work on your own for the well being of your horse. I am just a bit nervous about that though. I am a lower level rider, and the plusses to those barns in that my horse is very well taken care of, and there are knowledgeable people to help me out if I need someone to watch my horse trot out or look at a cut or wrap my horse if I can't there one evening. And the amazing farrier is busy and only goes to those large training barns. Maybe my ego is a bit bruised, but I also feel like I need an eye on the ground and consistent lessons to improve. Like I said, my horse can be quite hardheaded although he is not dangerous and trying to get me off ever...too lazy for that :lol:. Some days he'd just rather go around like a complete giraffe. Trying to get to my event trainer more often is an option, but it is very hard to find the time to go more than once a month.

Sorry this is so long, but I just needed to vent.

[Ibex]

I totally feel your pain. Trying to explain to my dressage coach that my 4yo doesn't need to go in a frame to make me happy is like pulling teeth; at least she's not a fan of gadgets. I'm actually moving to a dressage/eventing-friendly H/J trainer to try that out...

[octavian_jazz]

I don't know, I think you should feel fortunate enough to have the opportunity to be working with a dressage only trainer. I don't get what you are saying about you have to keep "asking, asking, and asking"...meaning you don't get to be a passenger? ;) I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to point out that dressage is hard work, especially if you have a difficult horse. I'm not so sure you are going to find an easier way, it may be at this point in your horse's training he just needs a strong, consistent ride.

As far as the trainer having to get on your horse to get him going the way she wants him to, I would sit down and talk to her about it. Voice your concerns! You are paying the trainer and you own the horse. Why would you want to go to a h/j barn if you are eventing?

[EventingAlter4]

I don't know, I think you should feel fortunate enough to have the opportunity to be working with a dressage only trainer. I don't get what you are saying about you have to keep "asking, asking, and asking"...meaning you don't get to be a passenger? ;) I'm not trying to be rude, just trying to point out that dressage is hard work, especially if you have a difficult horse. I'm not so sure you are going to find an easier way, it may be at this point in your horse's training he just needs a strong, consistent ride.

As far as the trainer having to get on your horse to get him going the way she wants him to, I would sit down and talk to her about it. Voice your concerns! You are paying the trainer and you own the horse. Why would you want to go to a h/j barn if you are eventing?

Thanks, that is why I said I have been asking myself if maybe I am just giving up too easily. Riding correctly is hard work.

What I meant by "asking, asking, asking" is the opinion some trainers have that one needs to keep asking for what you want almost the entire ride with maybe brief gives but then back at it. Maybe I am crazy. I know it takes time and training to get this point, but when I talk to my friends some of them say they, for the most part, are able to ask their horse something, and they do it until asked for something else. And obviously some days their horses are distracted, stiff, etc., and you have to work harder at first to get what your asking for but then they are quiet.

I'm not explaining it right, but I guess an example is when you ask the horse to canter should you be asking for that transition the entire time your cantering?

[Donkey]

I agree with octavian jazz. From what you've written it sounds to me that you don't fit in and probably because (don't take this as criticism) you aren't as serious about the learning and training of dressage (at least their style). You admit you're a low level rider so maybe a lower key barn would work better. But keep in mind, no matter where you go, you're going to have trouble being a star student if you don't work on what your coach/trainer advises on a regular basis - for example letting your horse be a giraffe because he feels like it isn't going to get you any brownie points and will most likely frustrate your coach no matter who they are and what you pay them. You get out what you put in, no trainer or method will be a magic bullet. You just gotta find somewhere where you agree with the program so you are motivated.

[Donkey]

I'm not explaining it right, but I guess an example is when you ask the horse to canter should you be asking for that transition the entire time your cantering?

No, you ask once and then it is their (the horse) responisbility to carry you until you say otherwise. You don't want to end up in the habbit of kick, kick, kicking, and cluck, cluck, clucking forever as the only way to maintain forward momentum as it is a very difficult habit for the rider to break. You need your leg aids for other fun stuff like lateral movements, flying changes, and for adjusting your stride length etc.

But you are working to maintain contact every stride, you never get to just sit up there and enjoy the ride. You are not asking the same thing over and over but you are testing and adjusting as required every stride/every couple seconds.

If you're missing the "go forward piece" you have to go right back to the basics of basics, the bottom of the training pyramid and reschool/relearn how to get forward the correct way otherwise you'll just frustrate and exhaust yourself keeping your horse going.

[CookiePony]

There's a difference between nagging the horse (i.e. giving the aid constantly and ineffectually, without feeling what the horse is doing) and riding every stride (actively perceiving and maintaining the quality of the gait/transition/movement at all times). Do you have a sense of which one of these your instructor is having you do?

[EqTrainer]

Regarding should you be asking every stride... until your horse is in self-carriage, you should expect to have to use maintenance aids as necessary. During this time you are building the strength and understanding for your horse to learn to carry himself. Even WHEN he is carrying himself, tho', you will still have to ride every stride, but not be pushing him. At that point you will remind him to stay in self carriage, not remind him constantly to GO. Hope that makes some sense.

If you are not seeing a change in your horses ability to carry himself over time, then you need to question are you riding effectively towards that goal? Or are you up there thinking DAMN I wish he'd get it together :lol: It doesn't happen any other way than working hard. Sometimes people get the idea that dressage is easier than anything else because it doesn't involve jumping. The truth is, it is hard in a different way. It requires you and the horse to be paying attention every single moment to what it happening from the inside out, not the outside in (the jumps being set items that you have to consider more mechanically).

As far as your trainer having to ride him.. are you a trainer? If no, then I would expect that in order for you and your horse to progress as quickly as you can, that it is smart to have your trainer ride your horse on a schedule. There is no shame in that and you are not missing out on anything by having your trainer do that. Your horse will understand better what you want him to do and he can only benefit by being ridden by someone who knows more than you do. Also, your trainer can best instruct you if she also rides your horse and knows exactly what he does/how he responds to the aids. I *am* a trainer and if there were someone who could ride my own horse regularly, who rides better than I do, I'd be signed up :lol: that type of feedback is invaluable if you really want to progress quickly.

If your concern is that your trainer really isn't any good, I would look at the horses she/he trains, how correct they are, how happy they are, how successful they are and if she produces horses who work correctly, stay sound and are happy in their work regularly. If no, then it may be time to trainer shop. If yes, then try to commit yourself better to the program that is producing good work. Eventually you may come to a place that tells you it's time to move on but it doesn't sound like you are there yet.

Remember that it is normal to wonder if your program is working for you; hopefully this will help you sort thru the different aspects of that. Good luck :)

[webmistress32]

it's very hard to find a good trainer with interest in really training an adult in the basics / foundationally good riding.

they all seem very keen to push you along and "do the movements" or "get the jumps higher and more technical" before you're ready.

I think it has more to do with their expectation that you as an adult want to keep progressing and aren't interested in trotting around without stirrups for weeks at a time to learn proper balance.

even after telling several trainers that I just wanted good solid training in the basics they still pushed me to do things I really felt I had no business doing.

in the end I had to find several different trainers who each teach something different with strict instructions to not push me past the basics if I'm not ready. so now I have a dressage trainer, a jump trainer and a coach. trying to balance all that and not go broke is interesting all by itself.

[imissvixen]

There's a big difference between a good trainer and a good teacher as far as I am concerned. I have seen many many good riders who train but can't teach.

So, don't blame yourself. Find someone who you feel comfortable and happy with. If there isn't someone local then save your money and go periodically to ride with someone who does.

[Speedy]

I have a big, strong horse who will use all of his strength to resist against you if he doesn't want to work that day. In theory it makes sense to have the much bigger, stronger trainer get on him to get him to give, but I just think there has got to be a better way where I can get him soft and supple without the constant asking, asking, asking and deeper, deeper, deeper.

Submission is not about strength. This is indicative of poor quality training or a fundamental misunderstanding of the basics on the part of the student.

In any event, you have to trust the person you are working with to do the right thing, to discuss their methods with you, to educate you as they help you to educate your horse. And, you need to do what they tell you to do, consistently, because a horse needs consistency to progress in its training. If you don't trust your trainer well enough to do these things, you should move on because you aren't doing anyone any favors, least of all your horse, by participating half-heartedly.

[fordtraktor]

I don't think all trainers want to push people to do more advanced movements or jump higher. There is usually more pressure from the students, who want to do fancy movements or jump higher before they are ready.

When I was teaching, I lost a student or two over the years because they thought they should progress quickly by sitting on a horse's back once a week, and didn't understand that progress comes from hard work. Most trainers probably have.

Other students are happy not to work hard and just want to have fun. With these, I am fine with taking more time than necessary to build the basics, and I enjoy helping these students experience the joy of horses, even if they will never be serious competitors.

Every trainer's favorite kind of student works hard at everything, including the basics, and is as happy to learn and understand something basic as to jump three inches higher. But this kind of student is rare.

OP, I think trainers should match their teaching styles to meet the needs of the student. It is clear there is a disconnect between you and your trainer, and I would look for a new one that better suits your learning/riding style. It is supposed to be fun, first and foremost.