believing in the seller

[Galley]

has anyone ever been drawn in to buying a horse because of what the owner said but it wasn't true? i bought a horse and he has never been the same ever since i brought him home. the seller denied any wrong doing and would not take him back. i later learned from someone who knew the horse that he had a very sad beginning which the person i bought him from knew all along.

[Lilykoi]

Caveat emptor:sigh:

[Barbara_F]

When you buy a horse it is always "Buyer Beware", and there is usually no recourse in terms of giving the horse back, although there are a few exceptions. Did the buyer put anything at about the horse into writing? Even in an informal email?
What is the horse doing?

[Stacie]

Yes. Twice I had people who I had reason to trust lie to me about the horse. Don't feel bad. Horse "professionals" lie all the time.
In fact I can think of only one horse that I bought that I was *not* lied to about in some major way.

[dogontired]

Unfortunately it happens more frequently than one would hope. See our thread on COTH about our various experiences with Brit Le Brand Farms....

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=133936


The experience was nothing short of disgusting, and the only thing I can say is, do a background check on sites like this so you can see if anybody else has had any prior bad experiences BEFORE you emotionally and financially commit yourself to a horse.

Good luck to you and your boy, I hope things turn out ok for both of you. If he's a rescue and is still sorting out issues, perhaps you ended up with him for a reason and you all can heal each other.

[Stacie]

I wanted to add that you should try to take out of the experience what you can. I've had to learn things that I would not have had to learn if the horse had been "as advertised" (mostly health/lameness problems). I've been frustrated and sad at times but the journey is interesting. So life is strange and sometimes it all works out for the best in the end.

[greysandbays]

has anyone ever been drawn in to buying a horse because of what the owner said but it wasn't true?

Yup. I once traded for a mare described by her owner as "real skittish" and hard to handle.

I took the trade gambling that 1) since she was just a three-year-old, I could fix that, and 2) the owner was speaking from a position of being over horsed.

I was right. Almost 24 years later, I still have that mare and she's a lifer. I rode her in her first show when she was five, and she racked up a twenty-year run of hundreds of ribbons with me and my riders.

She became quite famous locally. I'd send one of my youth riders in the ring with her, and the ring-side chatter was "Who's number [whatever]?" and the reply would be, "Don't know who's riding, but that's Greysandbay's horse."

[saultgirl]

Keep in mind -- just because the horse is acting differently with you, does not mean the seller was untruthful. Horses act differently with different people, in different environments, and under different management situations.

[downthecenterlinetheycome]

My gelding was sold to me as bombproof.

He is hot hot hot and spooky. (Well, he's getting better about it.) Only reason we believed was their video of riding him on/under/through tarps, setting off fireworks next to him, etc etc. I only rode him once, only saw him once. I suspect he was drugged. He rode well enough, cantered OK. Well, he's got a really scary canter un-drugged.

Anyway, he was also way green. He did everything better drugged. :lol: Oh, and, umm... he's lame. Ouch.

But I love him.

[Cindyg]

Keep in mind -- just because the horse is acting differently with you, does not mean the seller was untruthful. Horses act differently with different people, in different environments, and under different management situations.

This is an excellent point. I'm in this situation myself. I bought a horse who was great for his former owner, with three national championships to prove it. I've had nothing but trouble with him. It's been 11 years now :lol: so it's not likely an adjustment issue :lol:. I sometimes wonder if he was drugged when I tried him; but I really don't think so. I think he's just different for me than for her. Different here than there.

Obviously since I've had him 11 years, I've managed to find my way with this horse. But I will admit that I'm looking forward to a less complicated horse next time.

[RockinHorse]

The only information I ever believe that the seller tells me is information that can be proved ;). I will believe the horse is a 5 y.o. lightly raced OTTB if I can read his tattoo and verify age and starts. I will believe a horse is a winner in the 3'6" ring if I can verify a show record. I will believe a horse is 16.2 hands if I put a stick on it myself.

For the most part, I don't pay too much attention to the assurances of the seller but go by what I see, although I do try to only buy horses from people I know personally or by reputation.

[Sansena]

I once had an employer who'd given up on a schoolie because of a host of problem. Problems that employer had caused himself, but was too thick to recognize & change. I contacted a local dealer; he asked me to drop the schoolie off the next week.

When I did, I told him; "If you hang on her mouth, she'll pull like a train. She's sticky on her left lead, and keep an indirect rein when you go past the gait or she'll try to run out. You should probably get some Doxy to see if her attitude can improve any too... it's just recently taken a turn for the worse"

Two weeks later, dealer calls me back, says yes, he'll take the pony, but at half what I was asking. "She'll pull like a chain if you hang on her, sticky on her left lead, and likes to run out the gate unless you keep an indirect rein. Plus she's snarky. I think she's got Lyme".

I reminded him of our conversation when I dropped her off... and he remembered. And gave me my asking price.

So I suppose, honesty does pay, in some circumstances..

[My2cents]

Well, when I got my old boy (going on 34 yo in May) he was owned by a young girl that knew NOTHING. She had taken a month's worth of riding lessons and had owned the horse for 2 years and had ridden him THREE times. When I went to try him out, I should have run screaming from her barn by all the 'red flags' she was waving. "DON'T ride him straight at the jumps or he will jump them", "how did you get him to make a full circle without stopping at the gate?" or my favorite (he was covered in dried mud when I arrived) "I didn't know you could brush the dirt off without hurting him". THAT was my first experience 'buying' a horse and even though she 'misrepresented' him, I figured out pretty quick that she was just overfaced. Now it's coming up on 23 years of happy years together with my old man. I thank the stars everyday that the kid wasn't as horse mad as her parents thought she was.

[oldenburger with fries and a cold beer]

Sorry about your situation. It is horrible to have trust broken. Have I ever been lied to? YES!!!!!! I am dealing with a very similar situation right now.I think the joke that is most appropiate is.... How can you tell if a horse dealer is lying? Their lips are moving! Good luck and don't forget karma is the world's way of giving people a spanking!!:cool: Just try and move on and rectify the situation the best you can.

[Kementari]

My 15.2 h OTTB was described to me by the seller as a 16.2 h QH. :lol:

[And for those who get all cranky at seeing "OTTB," I would point out that it's relevant because even if you can't see the difference between a TB and a QH (and I grant you some QHs are very TB-y, though I submit he's not really mistakeable (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ci0SZJqxpoCtUjrYKJzoZw?feat=directlink)...), the tattoo is kind of a dead giveaway... ;)]

It's OK, though, I don't care about size and I was happier with a TB than a QH, anyway. :yes:

Seriously, as someone else said: if it can't be verified, take it with a grain of salt. Unless you refuse to buy horses that you haven't already known for years from sellers who you would trust with your life any day of the week, you are going to be lied to at some point. Unfortunately.

Though if this horse has issues that the seller specifically assured you it did not have, then you may have legal recourse - caveat emptor is not quite so all-encompassing as the crooked horse traders would like to believe. ;)

[Ambrey]

Keep in mind -- just because the horse is acting differently with you, does not mean the seller was untruthful. Horses act differently with different people, in different environments, and under different management situations.

Agree completely. I too bought a horse that was much different after I bought him, but I remain convinced that the seller did not lie to me- it was the environment and handling factors that made the difference.

But, I have heard that there are many sellers, even trainers, who will drug a horse during a sales ride. Many trainers recommend pulling blood at PPE and holding it in case you need to do drug testing :( So I know it does happen.

[Chardavej]

I once had a horse for sale, people came and tried him and loved him, left, came back again and tried him and loved him and took him home. About a month later they called saying they were going to sell him and would I maybe want to buy him back? Said he was constantly tossing his head up so bad that once he even hit the father in the head giving him a bloody nose. We said we didn't have any money but had another saint of a horse that we would trade. (Didn't really want to do that, she was my ride and we're not horse traders but I worried about Snick) Now we had Snickers for a year before we sold him, never did he once toss his head, was a fabulous and fun trail horse, got him back, he was tossing his head constantly.

It took us a while to get him to relax and stop that. We showed them what kind of bit we used on him and when we went to pick him up they had been using a real, real thick bit on him and we think it bothered him. Changed him to his old bit but it still took about 6 months for him to stop. (No pain or back issues or saddle fit, he checked out fine.)

We sold him later, would love to have him back, he was such a blast! The last I heard the family was happy with the trade and was loving Dolly. Which I am sure, she was a better horse than Snick but oh well. Worth about 2k more than Snick too, but I thought I was doing the right thing. I told them the only thing I wanted was email updates on Dolly as she was my love, I didn't have to do the trade (I was doing what I felt was right for them and for Snick) and I cried like a baby trading her, had them crying too, LOL! They said they would, have called them twice (they said Oh glad you called we lost your email address!), they have never sent one update and it's been 2 years. So don't always believe what the buyers tell you either.

[theoldgreymare]

Rule # 1 in the horse world: Do not trust anyone. I have been screwed when buying from our former trainer because I trusted her. Never again!

That said, are you sure the horse was misrepresented in some way or perhaps whatever is going on is due to a new environmnet or perhaps a health issue?

[saddleup]

I bought a horse from a trainer and had asked what I thought were all the right questions. Does he clip okay? Trailer okay? etc. My mistake was I took their word for it. After months of working with him, yes, he did all those things....finally.

At first I was mad and convinced they'd tried to cheat me. But then I considered that maybe my definition of okay was different than theirs. I'm sure they drugged him or twitched him as a matter of course to get him ready for a show....no problem there. And maybe muscled him into the trailer. For them, that wasn't a big deal. For a hobby owner, it seemed like they'd lied.

Next time I went horse shopping I took my clippers and my trailer and my fly spray and anything else I could think of to try out on the horse. No more taking the seller's word for anything. Even a seller you know and think has a stellar reputation can overstate or understate the horse's abilities or attitude.

Yes, buyer beware.

[JohnDeere]

BTDT w/tshirt but I dont think it was deliberate.

Horse wasnt drugged during test rides. Horse was out of shape during test rides. Horse had sore feetsies during test rides, though not lame. Once the angels were correct and the horse was in shape (about 3 mo later), horse was different. Way different. In a bad way. Horse is now with someone else. I was lucky enough to have a seller like Chardavej that traded me something else to keep me happy.

Im doing a rinse repeat (green horse out of shape with bad feet--I must wear a sign) but with different results. I hope. It wont hurt to explain the situation and see if theyll do something besides refund. Reputation are important esp. in this econmy and maybe they want to protect it.

For Gods sake dont get hurt.

[FindersKeepers]

Happens all the time. Never trust what they say.

My mare was advertised as a dead quiet, beginner trail horse. I was looking for a Junior hunter, but always wanted a grey mare, and figured, why not go look.

She was quiet alright, because she had been starved to an inch of her life. Couldn't leave her after seeing her and the pleading look in her eyes. Took her home, got some groceries in her, she's wild. She was the best horse I have ever worked with. Smart, athletic, careful over fences, but she's nuts. She still is as a retired, unsound, heavey 22 year old. Never hesitates to race the geldings, at a full out gallop, and sliding to a stop at the last second.

SO as others said, its not always a flat out lie... but when situations change, they can change.

[barrelchick00]

I have had this happen to me and its not nice. But I have learned a lot from the experiences and I have had some wonderful horses as well. Just like the others said never believe everything you hear and only half of what you see.
Good luck!!

[barrelchick00]

I meant hasn't it happened to us all....sorry

[SunshineAcres]

Because of my own bad experiences as well as friend's experiences buying horses that were misrepresented, I now always assume the seller is lying concerning every detail about the horse I'm looking at purchasing. I ask questions that require a detailed answer but just watching the owner with the horse tells me what they won't. Now I take my trainer with me to ride the horse before I do. She puts the horse through it's paces and lets me know if it's suitable for my level of riding as she knows me very well.
Example: This summer I went to look at a horse I was very interested in. First off, I noticed she was in a separate paddock from the two other horses on the property. I suspected she was either very dominant or docile, neither of which was a concern for me OR she had a health issue, which I ruled out as she still had nose to nose contact with the other horses over the fence. Come to find out, she is very alpha.
When the owner caught the horse, she didn't tie her with a quick release knot, she wrapped the lead around the metal tube fence three times so I asked her why. She said so if she pulled back, she wouldn't freak out: i.e. she doesn't tie. lol Then I asked if she had any fly spray as the flies were really bad out. She answered no, she had just ran out. Um, so she doesn't do well with fly spray.
I was more irritated than pissed b/c IMO all those things are fixable so why lie? Stupid, really. I guess some people think any little quirk will blow the sale!
On the other hand, I tell a buyer EVERYTHING, every little detail. I never want someone to say I lied about a horse, which I will never do. I want the buyer to know all so that the horse is a good fit for them. I want it to work out. I guess that's the difference between caring about horses or not. I figure those liars don't give a damn about the animal they're selling so they lie, not caring that the horse may end up being sold, sold and resold!

[LarissaL]

If you ride resales or buy often enough nothing is suprising. I typically chalk it up to people having different experiences, handling/riding styles and vocabularies. But if a horse comes through auction or a dealer, I assume a 150% lie. I recall a local dealer bringing in a Mustang pony, saying he's the perfect school pony and kid's show pony. I hop on and the thing is a bolter and magnetized to the exits of the arena. Did she actually think we wouldn't notice??

I've ridden a few recently that came from goodness knows where. A 13.3h advanced dressage pony who could "sidepass" turned out to be not (or barely/badly?) broke. His only trained skills were to shake like a leaf and then buck and bolt off. A TB burned out on a lesson program is 6 and a hot little firecracker. Totally entertained by springing around on his rear end and impersonating a giraffe. I imagine him in a lesson program would have resulted in a LOT of kids unloaded, quickly, and a river of tears. A pretty paint who was a western cow horse balked completely in a shank bit and roweled spurs - it must have blown his brain trying to do rollbacks in that getup as he's definitively english broke and so green he can't canter a single corner of the ring.

It's never a bad idea to bring along a more experienced or critical set of eyes when you are shopping!

[Bogie]

I have always been truthful when selling a horse because I want it to go to a good home. I am not a pro, just sometimes selling a project horse or a horse that is no longer able to do what I want.

However, I've had people lie through their teeth to me. Whenever I buy locally I try to find other people who have known the horse. I've picked up some good inside information that way.

I also always do a PPE. I think having a baseline veterinary exam is crucial when you are making a purchase decision.

[BoomerButt]

I have a horse right now that I am trying to sell that has a bad past. He really is a good boy, but he has a rough beginning and when I tell interested buyers in it, they bail!

I hate when sellers lie, which is why I refuse to drop to that level! Even if I end up keeping a horse for the rest of his life because of it.

Sorry about your being lied to. Unfortunatly, it happens to the best of us!

[sketcher]

On the other hand, I tell a buyer EVERYTHING, every little detail. I never want someone to say I lied about a horse, which I will never do. I want the buyer to know all so that the horse is a good fit for them. I want it to work out.

Yeah, me too. Do you ever have the experience of thinking that you lost someone's interest because you told them the truth and they figure the horse must really have something wrong because they wonder what you haven't told them?