Who should pay for paddock maintence, boarder or BO?

[Twentymetercircle]

A friend of mine keeps her horse in a stall with a small paddock. The paddocks in her area all have uneven ground and in the winter, get really muddy and are difficult to walk in.

My friend asked the BO to please take a look at her paddock because she can't even walk in it without having to hold on to the fence. The BO told my friend that she will organize a refurbishment of the paddock, but my friend would have to pay for base rock and labor because "that's the way those stalls are".

My friend is pretty ticked off and will most likely be looking for a new boarding situation. Is she right to feel slighted here? Shouldn't the BO be responsible for making sure the paddocks are safe?

I'm curious to know how other barns handle this type of maintenance.

[BabyGreen]

The BO should pay but probably won't. The boarder should not pay because the BO would get the long term benefit from the improvement.

She could work out something where the boarder would pay for the improvement and get a waiver on board to make up the difference.

[BuddyRoo]

Well, at the end of the day, it depends on the contract.

But generally, normal wear and tear is the responsibility of the BO. This would include mowing, fixing fence, maintaining arena, etc. In most cases.

I have done co op deals where we were responsible for maintaining our own paddock fence. I have done total self care deals where I leased the land and was responsible for all maintenance. I have boarded where you are responsible should your horse destroy something (like cribbing, or by kicking the stall, etc)

I would think that handling that paddock would be the BO's responsibility...but I guess I wouldn't make a big stink. I'd move. THat's poor horsemanship.

[Ambrey]

Well, at the end of the day, it depends on the contract.


:yes:

We have to pay to have our corrals dug out, leveled, etc.

[Twentymetercircle]

Well, at the end of the day, it depends on the contract.


The contract only states the boarders are responsible for paying for damages, not maintenance.

[BuddyRoo]

Well...your friend could take pics, send notification to BO via certified letter asking for the problem to be resolved, etc...then go to small claims to get some part of her board back if she can prove the owner did not fulfill his/her obligation via the contract. But...at that point you'd pretty much have to move anyway. So were it me, I'd be hunting for a new place and then pursue legal action later if that's what she wants.

At this moment, it sounds like kind of a bad situation.

Secondary problem is that depending on your friend's location and the time of year, it's likely to get worse, not better for the time being. Mud season is upon us and it's a hard time to try to do paddock maintenance.

Generally, I do think that it should be handled by the BO...

[2foals]

I'm just guessing here that the BO probably doesn't charge enough board to cover the costs of the requested repairs. I'm not saying that the conditions your friend describes are ideal or even acceptable, but leveling the ground and putting down a few inches of crushed rock is expensive. Since most boarding operations run pretty close to the break-even point, it is likely that the BO is choosing between 1) paying for the costs herself and taking a loss with her business 2) raising board to cover the costs or 3) asking boarders to pay a one time fee to have the work done. I agree that option #3 could come across as tactless, but it is probably the most cost effective option for long term boarders at the facility.

Anyway, its the same old story...people always want the cheapest boarding situation possible, but then are frustrated when time and money consuming repairs and improvements don't take place.

I think your friend should move to a barn that charges enough to cover proper facility maintenance and periodic facility upgrades, and these things aren't cheap.

[JohnDeere]

The BO should pay but probably won't. The boarder should not pay because the BO would get the long term benefit from the improvement.

She could work out something where the boarder would pay for the improvement and get a waiver on board to make up the difference.

This sounds fair as long as care continues to be good.

The other way is to charge a surcharge and the boarders could leave suddenly leaving the BO to eat the costs.

[Huntertwo]

I'm just guessing here that the BO probably doesn't charge enough board to cover the costs of the requested repairs. I'm not saying that the conditions your friend describes are ideal or even acceptable, but leveling the ground and putting down a few inches of crushed rock is expensive. Since most boarding operations run pretty close to the break-even point, it is likely that the BO is choosing between 1) paying for the costs herself and taking a loss with her business 2) raising board to cover the costs or 3) asking boarders to pay a one time fee to have the work done. I agree that option #3 could come across as tactless, but it is probably the most cost effective option for long term boarders at the facility.

Anyway, its the same old story...people always want the cheapest boarding situation possible, but then are frustrated when time and money consuming repairs and improvements don't take place.

I think your friend should move to a barn that charges enough to cover proper facility maintenance and periodic facility upgrades, and these things aren't cheap.

This sounds similar to my barn. Right now everything is a muddy mess and could be made so much nicer and less muddy if stone and drainage were put in. But our board is so inexpensive I don't know how my BO even makes a profit, so I wouldn't ask her to fix it.

However, if I was at an expensive totally full board facility, then I would ask for improvements.

[Guyot]

and if it wasn't discussed, that is a communication issue.

I offer my boarders field maintenance of seeding/fertilizing in the spring. Field rotation and mowing. Picking manure is done in the small sacrifice fields about two times a year. Every boarder shares their two fields and sacrifice field with one other horse. If they wish to pick fields, add additional seed, etc. they are welcome to if they pay for it. If they ask, I will usually arrange for the labor of additional seeding/fertilizing. Some pick their fields daily, some weekly, some not at all. Works for us, and I don't think anyone is frustrated, but this is all discussed prior to anyone moving in.

I am always willing to listen to anyone with a issue about footing turnout as long as they come with a possible solution as well. Don't just bring me a problem and say, so what are you going to do about it. Sometimes it's nice to have an option offered that I have never thought of, and sometimes the boarders idea is much more cost effective then what I would have come up with.

[Sansena]

On first read, I thought you were referring to paddock fencing; in which case I'd say split the cost for the beaver-equid types. Or the chronicly distructive horse.

But in this situation? BO.

[Guilherme]

Barn owner. Paddock maintenance is a cost of doing business.

That said, if the BO gets to pay they also get to set the standard. If a boarder wants something special then they may have to pay for it.

The contract may address this, but many probably do not except in the broadest language.

G.

[pooh]

depending on the situation this could be a tricky question. most obvious response is it is the BO property, and is caused by wear and tear / Mother nature - therefore the BO should be responsible. But as Huntertwo stated - some BO are not even keeping their heads above water in this ecomony. So depending on your situation - could there be an arrangement made that suits all parties. I know at my current barn BM would love to do more but she is struggling as most other BM's to keep costs down - so in turn we all help out as able - buying things the barn needs and helping with maintaince when we have free time - or on nice days. It is not uncommon to see a boarder outside with a rake fixing something they see wrong - but I will admit we have a very small, unique situation. For the most part , we all support and help each other out as much as possible to keep all our costs down.

[Janet]

The boarder is going to end up paying for it, either directly, or indirectly as part of the board.

[mvp]

The BO should pay... and probably can't. Most don't cost out their operations well enough to include money put into long-term maintainance projects, let alone farm improvement.

That means the HO has only two choices, and these won't go away. Either pay to fix her horse's paddock and plan to stay awhile, or move to a better-kept facility and expect to pay a higher price. Since there's next to no profit margin in this part of the business, there's almost no way around that correlation between more money and a nicer facility. But there is one more reason to move now. If this part of the farm isn't maintained and the BO either can't afford it, or is unwilling to do this normal upkeep job, chances are that other things-- fencing, arena footing and the like-- aren't in the normal budget either.


If you are happy with these other parts of the barn, happy with the standard of care and price, stay by all means. But if things go south, don't blame the BO. The unmaintained paddocks gave you clear warning and you made a decision. In general, I choose barns with no plans to really modify the way they do things. When my ideas or standards come to differ from the BO's, I thank them for caring for my horse and politely find a new place. It's not the BO's fault that I want something different.

-mvp

[Sparky Boy]

BO should pay. It will be an improvement to the BO's property. I've never heard of a boarder having to pay for major improvements on someone else's property.

[sketcher]

To fix that problem correctly would be an expensive proposition.
If the arrangement is stalls with individual turnout, the to do it properly, the fencing would probably have to come out and the whole area with all the paddocks would have to be done. That is quite an expensive project. I'm sure other boarders wouldn't be happy if only one persons paddock got fixed.

The barn owner would probably have to get a quote, raise the board for everyone to pay for the project and then once she has raised enough she could drop the board again. Unless she just happens to have a huge wad of cash sitting in the bank for such a project.

Horses = mud. Horses on small paddocks equal = more mud. Maybe your friend could ask for turnout in a larger paddock or ring or limit her horses turnout for a while so it doesn't get so bad?

[2foals]

If you are happy with these other parts of the barn, happy with the standard of care and price, stay by all means. But if things go south, don't blame the BO. The unmaintained paddocks gave you clear warning and you made a decision. In general, I choose barns with no plans to really modify the way they do things. When my ideas or standards come to differ from the BO's, I thank them for caring for my horse and politely find a new place. It's not the BO's fault that I want something different.

-mvp

For the record, I agree that a BO should be responsible for paying for facility maintenance and upgrades. However, the BO also gets to decide what maintenance and upgrades take place. Sometimes a BO might really, really want to make some nice (or even necessary) upgrades, but if her niche market is low cost boarding she may be prevented from doing so by knowing that she will lose business if she increases her fees to cover the cost of these upgrades.

So, I agree with MVP that you should choose a boarding facility based on what it is...not go someplace cheap and then insist that they improve it to suit you.

[findeight]

OP, are you saying friend is unhappy because the small paddock attached to the stall is muddy and BO should pay for regrading, leveling and laying a base?

That is not possible unless all adjacent paddocks are done. That involves taking down all the fencing, bringing in a grader, hauling off alot of the "used" dirt, hauling in several truckloards of crushed limestone and leveling/tamping it then rebuilding all the fence. Even if they just scrape it down and skip a base layer, still have to remove and rebuild all the fencing and it is still going to take several days.

Just not a small project and likely anywhere from 3500 to 10k depending on what they do. BO is not going to pull that out of a back pocket.

It's spring. It rains. It gets muddy. Small paddocks get churned up. BO, while responsible for routine wear and tear maintainance and general safe conditions, is not going to rebuild the place.

Mud sucks, literally. But dangerous??? NOT. In and off itself it never killed anything just sitting there-stinks sometimes, get scratches and thrush. But it is not dangerous.

If it bothers friend, she needs to select an indoor stall with daily turnout in larger pastures over those little attached paddocks.

Thing about boarding barns-they are what they are and that's what you get. Whatever you see when you move in is not going to change and they are not going to make anything other then minor changes to satisfy a single boarder.

[Cita]

Barn owner. Paddock maintenance is a cost of doing business.

That said, if the BO gets to pay they also get to set the standard. If a boarder wants something special then they may have to pay for it.

The contract may address this, but many probably do not except in the broadest language.

G.

I totally (and unfortunately) agree with this. Their barn, their rules (and maintenance schedule). If you don't like it, and I can *certainly* see how you wouldn't!, then I think it's time to find a different barn. Hopefully you'll find one where their priorities/standards are more in line with yours. I'm guessing you'll probably end up paying more for it, though.

[Coreene]

We have box stalls and also 12x24 half-covered pipes. When you move in, your stall is level with a new, tamped down base of DG. After that, any fixing is up to each boarder, and you can order new DG, bedding, dig-outs etc from the stable. All the turnout padocks, bullpens, arenas and everything else is maintained by the equestrian center.

[Equibrit]

Your friend has, at the least, the right to expect suitable conditions in which to board her horse, as that is what she is paying for. Ergo, she has already paid!

[galwaybay]

Barn Owner in most circumstances but certainly in this situation there might be some solution where the boarder could get the BO to remedy the situation in a cost effective manner - paddocks + wet = Muck. Some BO will put some kind of footing (crushed rock/gravel or even straw) to help w/ the muck/mud. The OP's friend has a right to a certain standard of care (and that standard can widely vary from place to place) unless it's a co-op situation BO should provide all maintenance and repair on their property. If not - your friend needs to look for another boarding situation...

[JoZ]

I pay a very small amount of board on a large working farm. The farm pays for itself for the owner. So if we want things done, they will have to be paid for somehow. Usually we decide we don't want things done or will pay for them ourselves, when the alternative is an increase in board, a scary plan to add more stalls and have more boarders, or a re-ordering of priorities so other things don't get done. It's all give and take, even if we whine about it sometimes.

[Twentymetercircle]

Thank you everyone for your excellent responses. I have given the link to this thread to my friend and I know she will find it informative.

I've seen the paddock her horse is in and it's a wonder the horse hasn't hurt himself. (knock on wood).

[Queen Latisha]

BO is responsible for maintenance......period.:yes:

[Lucassb]

Depends on the situation - if this is a low cost place, and everything else is OK, it may be worth the boarder's while to fix up her paddock.

In that circumstance, I'd buy a bunch of this: http://www.drystall.com/ and put it down myself, assuming I liked everything else about the facility.

[LAZ]

BO is responsible for maintenance......period.:yes:

Yes, they are. However, what constitutes maintenance or acceptable conditions varies between people.

I have lots of turn outs. Every fall I gravel in the gates and round bale areas in 6 fields. I also have runs off the east side of my barn, each run serves two stalls. The boarders in these stalls do NOT pay more for them (they've been with me for a long while). These horses go out in the big fields daily for 8-16 hours, and alternate using the paddocs attached to the stall. I can't afford to regrade and put down new stone in these runs as well as keep up all the other things that need to be done here--repairs and upgrades have to be priortised.

Just today I discovered yet another water leak in the underground lines--that'll cost another $1000 by the time the water is shut off, the line is dug up, repaired, and reburied. One of the (newly installed) automatic waters is not working in a different field. I'm ready to scream and throw myself on the ground weeping, but what good would that do?

It's been a long, hard winter already and it's not nearly over yet. The mud in the paddocks will dry out, and in the meantime, if your friend could offer to help with regrading the paddock she uses it might go a long way to getting it done.