To clinic or not ?

[NewbieEventer]

What are your thoughts on eventing clinics? At what point in your training do you usually attend clinics? Is your primary trainer supportive of your clinic efforts? I'm with a wonderful trainer, but am curious to see what other experts in the field (literally :lol:) have to say about my riding. It's not that I'm not learning plenty at my current lessons, but I think a change of venue/instruction might help me become a more effective/independent rider.

The only worry I have regarding clinics is that not all clinicians are good for every horse/rider combo....especially ones where confidence is easily eroded. Perhaps I should just stick with my current regime for a while, since my trainer knows my horse and I extremely well...but I still have this nagging thought about getting out and exploring other places and views.

By signing up for a clinic, I would assume you are trusting the judegement of the clinician...but when do you trust in your own gut feeling vs. the clinician's intruction? For example, with my current trainer, I know that when I'm told to do something, that it's within the capabilities of both myself and horse....so I put aside any questions/doubts in my head and just do it. I would think that putting this kind of trust on a clinician who doesn't know you or your horse well can end up with not so good results...but clinics must be beneficial, otherwise there wouldn't be so many people wanting to participate. So, for those of you that participate in clinics....when/why do you chose to go? Suggestions for favorite clinicians (I do want to progress above my BN/N status, but not at the expense of confidence)? Would love to hear any good or bad experiences with clinics.

[Wee Dee Trrr]

I LOVE going to clinics. many times clinicians offer advice from a new perspective. You often find yourself (successfully) doing things you previously thought were out of reach.

At the beginning of the clinic the clinician will ask you to tell them a bit about you, your horse, and your riding experience. This is the time to say what things you are working on, what scares you, what scares your horse, etc. After this, at any time it's YOUR responsibility to say "Hey, I'm not sure about this exercise!" And the clinician will either explain why you can, break it down, or accept that you are out of your comfort zone.

I would talk with your trainer about doing clinics. Some are funny about it, some really encourage it. Also, he/she may have a short list of clinicians that they think would be good for you.

I regularly clinic with Ian Stark (He comes to our barn 2 x a year normally) He's an amazing confidence builder. I also love doing clinics with Jim Wofford, Dorothy Crowell, Holly Hepp, and Jon Holling.

[RoeVee]

I am also a HUGE fan of clinics.

However, it sounds like you might have confidence issues. I would recommend you audit any potential clinician first! See how you like their style, then ride with them the next time they come around. Or find someone who has ridden with a clinician who's judgement you respect and are in sync with - and try that clinician. Many clinicians will push you (in a good way) but if you are having confidence issues - it may either really build you up or completely demolish you. big risk.

Many clinicians are really good - but it depends what YOU need to get out of the clinic.

[asterix]

It depends on why you are doing the clinic, where you are with your horse, and who you clinic with.

There is NO way to tell you that all clinicians will give you a confidence boost. Most of us have been at (if not ridden in) clinics where someone really came out the worse for wear. Best thing to do there is to ask folks you know (and people here, who have a lot of experience) about the specific clinician you are considering. Or go and audit.

In my modest experience, clinics with the right person work great for me when I am "on the bubble" -- that is just fixing to move up a notch, but not quite there, or when I'm confirmed where I am and looking to gain new insight. They are NOT good for fixing a big problem or issue. This, IMO, should be done at home with someone who knows you well.

In terms of "how do I trust the clinician" -- do your homework ahead of time, keep common sense about you, and know that one thing you are paying the clinician for is his/her many years of teaching zillions of horses and riders. Some of them have an uncanny ability to assess where you and horse are very quickly. But in the end, if something terrifies you or truly seems out of reach, you HAVE to say something, and you probably SHOULD excuse yourself from the exercise. If you pick the right person, this probably will NOT happen to you and you'll have fun.

[kookicat]

Clinics are a great tool, but they're not for everyone. One of the first things to ask yourself is -what am I hoping to take away from the clinic? Go in with a goal in mind, even if it's only something small.

Also, they can be quite a shock if you're used to one-to-one lessons. I'm a huge fan of Lucinda Green, Ian Stark (Ditto the confidence building thing!) Don't just stick with the eventing folks- one of the best clinics I ever went to was taught be an Irish showjumper!

If you take a look on youtube, I bet you can find vidoes of various people giving clinics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSkZfrTYJSQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAORVtAYYI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RK3JF4iebs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1w-n0HgRrE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddv7YuM1vjQ

[Ajierene]

Clinics are a great way to get your horse in a new environment and a new set of eyes on your horse. I take clinicians with a grain of salt - they are seeing only a fraction of you and your horse - you may have a bad day that day or your horse may, or what have you. Even if you come away not wanting to clinic with that person again, you will always come away learning something. It may be what NOT to do with your horse or that you are not ready for something you thought you were, etc.

It is a good idea to get a feel for a clinician before going and many threads on here address that - questions about clinicians. Auditing is also a good idea if you are not sure.

[Speedy]

I have a great trainer who has had many many years at the four star level, and I still do clinics pretty regularly. I usually do about 3 a year and she is supportive of that, because they are a great way to do something new with supervision, get a different perspective on my horse and my riding and have a little fun away from the farm. So, a few observations to share.

1. The clinicians I enjoy the most are those that are of my own trainers generation, who share her training methods and philosophies. They may do things a little differently during the lesson - and I learn something new from that - but the fundmentals are the same. I loved clinicing with Lucinda Green for that reason. I learned a ton from her, but I did not come away from the experience with any confusion or mixed messages. You might consider asking your trainer for advice as to which clinicians are likely to work best for you.

2. You need to know your own limitations and have the guts to say 'no' if you believe that you may be overfacing yourself or your horse with a particular exercise. If you aren't comfortable saying 'thank you, but no' to a clinician, you aren't ready to clinic. That's not to say that you should go with the attitude that you'll pick and choose what you'll do in a clinic - that isn't cool at all - but that you need to have the confidence to take a stand (POLITELY) if you unexpectedly find yourself in a bind.

3. A clinic with an unknown clinician is not a great time to try to stretch to the next level - do everyone, including the clinician and yourself, a favor and sign up for the level at which you are currently riding confidently.

[Dawnd]

One thing that I have learned about myself is that I learn visually - I copy people. (think baby chimp!)

So I can get as much (sometimes more) if I audit as when I ride in a clinic...sure it's not specific to me but I have picked up so many pieces watching other people - especially when the clinician gets on and rides.

I found that if I want to clinic but am feeling pinched for cash, auditing especially an entire day of multiple groups and joining in setting up jumps teaches me a LOT!

[Hotspur]

I recommend Ralph Hill! He is just great at evaluating the horses and riders in his clinics and seems to put everyone at ease. I think those of us that have worked with Ralph have come away with some new insights and skills. As a bonus, you will laugh!

[bambam]

I am not a big fan of clinics BUT that is because I am spolied and able to take occasional private or semi-private lessons with high level pros and trainers from whom I can get that second eye and opinion. I think getting an outside eye from a skilled trainer that you do not regularly train with is often invaluable and, if your only way of doing that is to go to a clinic, then do it. If you have the option of doing it in individual lessons instead, then that is what I prefer. There are some I will clinic with because they are so great and not available in a non-clinic setting like Jimmy W. but it is a short list :).
That being said, here are my thoughts on clinics:
- if at all possible, audit first. That is the best way to determine whether their approach is consistent with what works for you as a student and with your horse and whether they overface riders, challenge them in a way you think you would like to be challenged or seem to give riders helpful feedback that is not the same for everyone. Plus, you can learn a ton from auditing.
- if auditing is not an option, seek other opinions on the clinicians including from your trainer. I have asked my trainer if she thought "x" person's clinic and/or approach would be helpful for me given their style and where I was in my riding at that stage. If your trainer is not supportive of you taking any instruction from anyone else, I consider that a red flag.
- be honest in your abilities and level when you sign up. One of the main reasons that I have given up on anything other than the rare clinic is that almost invariably there is a rider in one if not most of the groups that has no business being there. This rider often holds up the whole group or monpolizes the attention of the clinician. Some clinicians handle the disparate abilities well and some let it derail the clinic for everyone other than the rider in over their head- this is another thing you learn by auditing- how do they handle the almost inevitable rider who cannot ride to the level of the group?
- be willing to say "no" when in the clinic if you are overfaced or, if something freaks you out, let the clinician know- they may tell you something that helps you deal with it mentally or technically or they may decide you should forego the exercise (and I don't mean whining obviously- this can be done constructively although some clinicians don't want you to actually talk or ask questions but to simply nod and agree ;) if that is their approach, decide if that is okay with you and honor it if you show up anyway).
- I agree with asterix that going to a clinic to address some big problem you are having is unlikely to be successful IME- you are more likely to get general insight and/or a push in the right place and direction at a clinic.
- if you clinic, try to watch the sessions before you. Not only do you learn in general, but if you know what the clinician is doing and what works as a rider with them, your own session will be more successful.
Clinicing can be helpful and it can be a waste of time or harmful- it all depends on the clinician and you.

[ss3777]

All right, I confess I am a semi reformed clinic slut. Need proof? Here is my list in no particular order: Timmy Kees, Betsy Worthington, Eric Horgan, Sarah Geikie, Bruce Davidson, Beth Perkins, Stephie Baer, Kerri Milliken, Bobbi Costello, Denny Emerson, Sue Berrill, Paul Lindsay, Janet Black, Marcia Kulak, Jos Sevriens, god knows who I have forgotten…………sad no??? I did manage to figure out over the last few decades or so that you can have fun at every clinic but not every clinic will have light bulb moments. Fun happens if you and your horse are prepared, fit, not over or under facing both of your skill sets and if you did your research on the clinician. Light bulb moments, finding the sweet spot and moments in the zone happen more often with a clinician that speaks to your learning style. The really great clinicians adapt their message to fit your learning style but not every clinician has that gift. Now that I am reformed I tend to try and throw my money at clinicians that I have the most success with and that mesh with my program. My only exception is a cross country clinic, if I can get exposure to a typically closed course, I am there!!!

Good luck

[Donkey]

I love cross country clinics. The group lessons make things easy on you and your horse because you both get to see other people doing the same thing (which builds my confidence) and there is usually a horse that can be used as a lead if needed.


The only worry I have regarding clinics is that not all clinicians are good for every horse/rider combo....especially ones where confidence is easily eroded. Perhaps I should just stick with my current regime for a while, since my trainer knows my horse and I extremely well...but I still have this nagging thought about getting out and exploring other places and views.



If you're worried about a bad experience, remember you could always
a. have your trainer watch you in the clinic
b. ask the clinician for a scaled down version of an exercise that you are not comfortable with
c. finish early and leave the lesson
d. ask to join a lower group the next day or later the same day.
e. have your trainer ride your horse in the clinic the next day
c. not return the next day
etc...

I've seen all of the above occur and it's not a big deal.

The key is to pick an experienced clinician, ask you coach to recommend one. If the clinician is an experienced instructor as well as trainer chances are they've dealt with issues similar to yours. If a clinician is only known for their riding I would be hesitant to sign up. Always be upfront and speak loudly at the beginning of a clinic if you or your horse have any issues that need some work.

[bip]

- be willing to say "no" when in the clinic if you are overfaced or, if something freaks you out, let the clinician know- they may tell you something that helps you deal with it mentally or technically or they may decide you should forego the exercise

I think this is the hardest thing to do "in the moment". For example, on the first day of a 2-day clinic last spring, a clinician set up a line of low oxers that were about 4' wide. Even after I saw a few other people go through w/no problem, I was pretty sure she was going to modify the exercise for me. I was all ready to say I didn't think we could do it and ask for modification. But then the clinician turned to me like nothing was wrong and it was my turn. This is someone I've ridden with 2x before, so instead of expressing my anxiety, I just did it. Turned out to be a tremendously useful exercise, and helped me get far more out of the rest of the weekend than I had expected.

On the other hand, later that summer on the second day of a clinic with a clinician I had never ridden with before, I was having trouble with an exercise. I thought I had made it clear that a) I didn't really understand the exercise and b) that jump was a lot higher than we had ever jumped before. I decided to defer to the clinician's experience ("he's taught thousands of students, and he taught us all day yesterday, he would know if we were being overfaced"), and had a very close call that ruined the rest of the clinic and took me months to overcome the blow to my confidence.

And now I am very conservative about who I am willing to clinic with. I don't go by COTH recommendations, though I always check here first. I make sure to talk to someone whose personality and ability *I* know personally, and preferably someone who knows mine too.

Clinics are critical for me because I jump with a jumper trainer and do dressage with a dressage trainer, so I need that cross country perspective. And frankly, if you find a clinician who you click with, it is even more fun than competing - or at the very least, you get more riding time for your $ in a clinic than you do at an event.

[easyklc]

I've had some of my best "aha" moments at clinics and always talk to people I know to get feedback and recommendations. My trainer is also pretty forthcoming if she thinks I'll be in over my head. I have also audited and volunteered at local clinics in order to gain new skills from the ground and to watch trainers work.

I second that it is very important that you not allow yourself or your horse to be overfaced. This is just a nightmare to me! I've been there, and now that I have a greenie who looks to me to keep her safe and calm I am very selective who I will clinic with in my area. It is also vital that you are honest with instructors (and yourself) about your level of riding. Otherwise you put yourself in a situation where learning is severely compromised.

We have a good selection of clinics and camps in my area, and this year I am going to take some of my showing budget to clinic instead. My goal this year is purely to work on confidence, confidence and more confidence. IMO clinics are a great way to try new things, acquire new tools and bond with your horse without the pressure of showing.

[EventMore]

Clinics are great if they work WITH your regular trainer, so talk to her baout the clinics you have available - go to ones that support the system your trainer already uses.

[evntr06]

Clinics are great if they work WITH your regular trainer, so talk to her baout the clinics you have available - go to ones that support the system your trainer already uses.

I second that... I don't think I'd go to a clinic unless my traner was ok with it/recommended it.

[NewbieEventer]

Thanks all :yes: I think I'm going to audit a few clinics to get a taste of what all is out there...if nothing else, would be interesting to hear different perspectives.

Although I know that no single clinician is a good match for all horse/rider pairs, are there certain clinicians who you just "can't go wrong" with? ie they have developed the "eye" and are experienced enough to be beneficial for most everyone? My horse and I really have no major issues....just want to build confidence for both of us...actually more myself than horse ;)

From reading through the forums, a few names are consistently mentioned for good clinic experinces: Jimmy Wofford, Ian Starks, Lucinda Green

How would you complete the sentence....
"For cross country clinics, you can't go wrong with ____________." ?

[asterix]

Well, since you asked, I have worked with both Jimmy Wofford and Lucinda Green multiple times and found them both to have terrific eyes, great insights, and the ability to challenge without overwhelming.

I suspect you can't go wrong with either of these two.

Denny Emerson is also wonderful.