Saddleseat Bridle Advice... HELP!!!

[EtErNaLfLaMe07]

Hi,

I have recently started getting involved with gaited horses, (Via icelandics :)) but I am hoping to begin riding saddleseat. I have a TWH gelding who is quite old and not very used to the whole saddleseat thing and I am nervous about using a double bridle on him. Can the wheymouth be used by itself? Or does it need to have the bradoon to?

Thanks

[sublimequine]

Why not use a snaffle with a bitting rig? That's what most folks starting in Saddleseat do, I think. :)

[bort84]

First off, what are you working towards? Do you want to ride/show saddle seat - walk/trot/canter on a saddleseat type (saddlebred, morgan, etc)? Or do you want to progress towards showing TWHs? They're a bit different, though they share the same saddle. Also, how experienced are you? Have you ridden in a full bridle or curb? Can you ride with two reins? Has he been worked in a curb?

Most people show TWHs in a single curb only, but why not start him out easy? A very common saddle seat set up is to use two reins attached to a snaffle, with the bottom rein through a running martingale (not the kind they use on jumpers, but the kind with the neck attachment connected to the martingale rings). Are you comfortable using two reins? I've been riding saddle seat for years (mostly the saddlebred/arabian/morgan type though, so my recommendations might be a bit different than a TWH person), and that is a pretty useful set up. Unless you plan to show him immediately, I don't see why you'd have to put him in a curb. Plus, in my experience, most horses will go pretty well in this set up.

We had a little girl's TWH in training for awhile that was pretty quiet but pretty green. We usually worked her in the two reins + martingale, and she was lovely in that. She wasn't planning to show, just pleasure ride, so I don't think we ever ended up putting her in curb.

Or, if you are more comfortable with using one rein (martingale or no) and he goes pretty well in it, then why not do that for a bit? All of this sort of depends on your goals. Do you want to ride saddle seat - walk/trot/canter? Or just TWHs? If you want to progress towards riding saddle seat type horses beyond TWHs, I'd definitely start trying to work with two reins attached to a snaffle + martingale, just because it will help develop better wrist control. But you'll progress much more quickly if you work with somebody in lessons.

So my advice would be to avoid the curb for now unless you are experienced with it and your horse is too - you see a LOT of people ride in a walking horse type curb just for pleasure, but I don't think you need to rush that. The curb is too severe if you're not experienced with it. If you're nervous to put one in his mouth, he probably is too, haha. So stick with a snaffle and get some lessons (or keep up with the lessons you are taking hopefully). Riding in a full bridle or curb before you are ready will not help you to learn more quickly and will likely create some bad habits in you and your horse.

Anyway, give us some more background on you and your horse, and we can help a bit more = )

[AppendixQHLover]

I rode morgans saddleseat in my youth. Before I started using a double bridle with the two bits I got proficient using a pelham with two reins. The pelham has the shanks as a weymouth does but is a little easier to handle. That will teach you the handling of the two reins. Once you get used to the 2 reins it completely managable.

I would invest in some saddle seat lessons with a TWH trainer. That way they can get you the correct tack for the TWH breed. Every breed uses different bridles. The saddlebreds use a double bridle also. I am not sure what a TWH rides in.

[ReSomething]

At the moment I ride in a saddleseat barn and for beginners what is used is the single snaffle bit which can range from normal smooth snaffle to a variety of rather barbaric seeming mouthpieces - bike chain anyone? Two reins are attached to the bit and a neck ring martingale provides the curb effect. Once you acheive enough finesse you move into bit and bradoon.

Your TWH if he were ridden in the show ring would be going in a single jointed mouthed or flexible mouthed curb, very specific to the breed, swept back shanks, swivels at the attachment points to the mouthpiece. I do not know what types of bits a TWH trainer uses to start an untrained horse, I expect a snaffle as that is common in all breeds.

TWHBEA has a website listing trainers across the US - ditto investing in lessons.

[bludejavu]

This is a typical Walking Horse Show bridle: http://ehorseequipment.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1865

You do not want to ride your TWH in a full bridle. Although there are occasionally still a few who will show in a full bridle, it is not the "done" thing. Even at smaller open breed shows, you want to stay true to the breed standards.

The above bridle is sold by World Champion Horse Equipment who supplies much of the Walking Horse show world. I've purchased quite a few items for my Saddlebreds from them. Take a look at their pictured Walking Horses - you wont see a single one in a full bridle.

My personal suggestion - go easy on your older horse - the typical Walking Horse bit has cheeks that supply a huge amount of leverage. Make sure your hands are kind and forgiving - don't overuse leverage/long shanked bits. In other words, used with discretion, it will put him in a pretty frame and still allow him to have the typical Walking Horse head bob that is desirable in the show ring. If you have doubts that your hands are experienced enough to ride in a single curb, then I highly suggest you go with your gut feeling. Find someone in your area who can instruct you in saddle seat, even if it is only for a few lessons. They can critique you and tell you whether you are ready to ride your horse with that type of bridle/bit.

[EtErNaLfLaMe07]

First off, what are you working towards? Do you want to ride/show saddle seat - walk/trot/canter on a saddleseat type (saddlebred, morgan, etc)? Or do you want to progress towards showing TWHs? They're a bit different, though they share the same saddle. Also, how experienced are you? Have you ridden in a full bridle or curb? Can you ride with two reins? Has he been worked in a curb?

Most people show TWHs in a single curb only, but why not start him out easy? A very common saddle seat set up is to use two reins attached to a snaffle, with the bottom rein through a running martingale (not the kind they use on jumpers, but the kind with the neck attachment connected to the martingale rings). Are you comfortable using two reins? I've been riding saddle seat for years (mostly the saddlebred/arabian/morgan type though, so my recommendations might be a bit different than a TWH person), and that is a pretty useful set up. Unless you plan to show him immediately, I don't see why you'd have to put him in a curb. Plus, in my experience, most horses will go pretty well in this set up.

We had a little girl's TWH in training for awhile that was pretty quiet but pretty green. We usually worked her in the two reins + martingale, and she was lovely in that. She wasn't planning to show, just pleasure ride, so I don't think we ever ended up putting her in curb.

Or, if you are more comfortable with using one rein (martingale or no) and he goes pretty well in it, then why not do that for a bit? All of this sort of depends on your goals. Do you want to ride saddle seat - walk/trot/canter? Or just TWHs? If you want to progress towards riding saddle seat type horses beyond TWHs, I'd definitely start trying to work with two reins attached to a snaffle + martingale, just because it will help develop better wrist control. But you'll progress much more quickly if you work with somebody in lessons.

So my advice would be to avoid the curb for now unless you are experienced with it and your horse is too - you see a LOT of people ride in a walking horse type curb just for pleasure, but I don't think you need to rush that. The curb is too severe if you're not experienced with it. If you're nervous to put one in his mouth, he probably is too, haha. So stick with a snaffle and get some lessons (or keep up with the lessons you are taking hopefully). Riding in a full bridle or curb before you are ready will not help you to learn more quickly and will likely create some bad habits in you and your horse.

Anyway, give us some more background on you and your horse, and we can help a bit more = )

Ive been riding for many years (english pleasure, dressage, and western), but am new to the gaited horse society, he on the other hand has been ridden in pleasure classes and trail rides most of his life so im not planning on doing anything too drastic with him. (mainly 4-H shows and a few open) Ive used a curb before and hes used to it but my understanding of the curb bit is that it helps with head carriage, and offers a bit more control. His mouth is too hard to ride him in the snaffle only otherwise i would. but i have used double reins before so that is not stopping me, his lack of experience is.

[drmgncolor]

This is a typical Walking Horse Show bridle: http://ehorseequipment.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1865

You do not want to ride your TWH in a full bridle. Although there are occasionally still a few who will show in a full bridle, it is not the "done" thing. Even at smaller open breed shows, you want to stay true to the breed standards.

The above bridle is sold by World Champion Horse Equipment who supplies much of the Walking Horse show world. I've purchased quite a few items for my Saddlebreds from them. Take a look at their pictured Walking Horses - you wont see a single one in a full bridle.

My personal suggestion - go easy on your older horse - the typical Walking Horse bit has cheeks that supply a huge amount of leverage. Make sure your hands are kind and forgiving - don't overuse leverage/long shanked bits. In other words, used with discretion, it will put him in a pretty frame and still allow him to have the typical Walking Horse head bob that is desirable in the show ring. If you have doubts that your hands are experienced enough to ride in a single curb, then I highly suggest you go with your gut feeling. Find someone in your area who can instruct you in saddle seat, even if it is only for a few lessons. They can critique you and tell you whether you are ready to ride your horse with that type of bridle/bit.

Ditto.

[Tiffani B]

He's older, has been ridden on trails and at shows, and has worn a curb probably his whole life. What "lack of experience" does he have?

Assuming that training and lessons aren't in your plans, here is my take...

I would use the mildest curb you can find - mullen mouth or jointed snaffle-type mouth, with shorter shanks and a wrapped curb chain set fairly loose to start. Working at a walk, see how he responds to the bit - does he flex nicely, steer, stop, etc? Or does he get upset, toss his head, bear down onto the bit? If he's happy and responding well, you can move on to the faster gaits. If not, you need to try other bits (different mouthpieces and shank lengths) until you find the one he likes.

Don't ride him with two reins or two bits. It's not how TWH are normally worked and he's probably never worn such a setup in his life.

[bort84]

He's older, has been ridden on trails and at shows, and has worn a curb probably his whole life. What "lack of experience" does he have?

Assuming that training and lessons aren't in your plans, here is my take...

I would use the mildest curb you can find - mullen mouth or jointed snaffle-type mouth, with shorter shanks and a wrapped curb chain set fairly loose to start. Working at a walk, see how he responds to the bit - does he flex nicely, steer, stop, etc? Or does he get upset, toss his head, bear down onto the bit? If he's happy and responding well, you can move on to the faster gaits. If not, you need to try other bits (different mouthpieces and shank lengths) until you find the one he likes.

Don't ride him with two reins or two bits. It's not how TWH are normally worked and he's probably never worn such a setup in his life.

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't put him in two bits, and since you say he's tough in a snaffle and you've ridden in a curb, then why not try a mild one like Tiffani B mentioned? What exactly is making you nervous?

Also, I have worked a couple of pleasure TWHs in a double rein (snaffle) set up, and they liked it, though I realize it's a bit untraditional, haha. My grandmother actually used to train TWHs for awhile and she would use that set up sometimes because she found in her saddle seat background that she liked the way it works (she uses it on western pleasure/hunter pleasure horses sometimes too, haha). Anyway, just wanted to mention that, though it sounds like that might not be for you if you've noticed he works better in a curb.

So I guess I'm just confused as to where your nerves are coming from. Has he been bad in a curb in the past? There are snaffle options if that's the case, and there are also a lot of curb options too.

Maybe there's an experienced TWH person (amateur or pro) in your area that could come help you a couple of times to get started on the right foot.

[Cherry]

First of all, saddleseat has nothing to do with the bridle. It's all about the flat saddle (as opposed to dressage or a jumping saddle), which is used on a variety of "saddle" horses--Morgans, Walking Horses, American Saddlebreds, etc. The bridles and bits are different for the different breeds. ;)

Walking Horses are made to go with their heads down and into the bit, as opposed to Saddlebreds that are made to go with their heads up. Walking Horses are meant to lean into the bit that is why they do not use double bridles (with a snaffle bit which raises the head) but a single curb bit and rein on Walking Horses! Double bridles are used, however, on Morgans and American Saddlebreds, Arabs, etc.

I think you would do well to invest in some lessons with a Walking Horse trainer if there is one near you. ;)

[HDFarm]

First of all, saddleseat has nothing to do with the bridle. It's all about the flat saddle (as opposed to dressage or a jumping saddle), which is used on a variety of "saddle" horses--Morgans, Walking Horses, American Saddlebreds, etc. The bridles and bits are different for the different breeds. ;)

Cherry, well said.

The bit selections are very different depending on the breed. As are the variety of different mouthpieces and shank lengths. It burns me up that our local tack shop (mainly hunter) sells ONE bit that they call THE Walking Horse bit. It's what I call a sweetwater. Solid mouth, mediumish port w/8 inch shanks. If you walk in and say "I have a Walker." they hand you that bit. All walking horses going in one bit is like saying that ALL hunters should go in one bit with no regard to the individual horse's preference. Ughhh. I keep a "wall of bits" here that includes multiple mouthpieces, multiple lengths of shanks, different shaped shanks and of course some snaffles. Because TWH's can gait in a snaffle. It's all about self carriage.
I keep this selection so that when I get a student that needs to try a new bit, we have selection. We try and try and then we order what worked.

Walking Horses are made to go with their heads down and into the bit, as opposed to Saddlebreds that are made to go with their heads up. Walking Horses are meant to lean into the bit that is why they do not use double bridles (with a snaffle bit which raises the head) but a single curb bit and rein on Walking Horses! Double bridles are used, however, on Morgans and American Saddlebreds, Arabs, etc.

I think you would do well to invest in some lessons with a Walking Horse trainer if there is one near you. ;)

Walking Horses are trained to work "on the bit" and lean against it. Not to the point that they are on the forehand, but we encourage contact with the bit. Our breeds signature gait (running walk) calls for the the horse to be in a round to neutral frame. That involves a horse to have their nose in and head slightly up. Often people misunderstand this and pull on the mouth with the horses head up and nose out in discomfort. This causes a hollow frame and a pace.
~Sorry, I went way beyond the OP's original question.


I too would recommend finding a trainer nearby. I'm on that list of instructors posted earlier and can attest that we all passed the same phases of certification. Keep us posted on your progress!

[AppendixQHLover]

None of the local stores carried saddle seat stuff. We had to order it from National Bridle shop.

I rode morgans and arabs occasionally.

[Renae]

It is within the rules for most associations which you would show a Tennessee Walking Horse under (TWHBEA or NWHA are the 2 main ones) to show one in a snaffle bit only or a curb bit only. Wether a snaffle or curb bit is used Walking Horses are ALWAYS shown with a single rein and a single bit, they are NEVER shown in a double bridle. Here is the rulebook for the NWHA http://www.nwha.com/rulebook/2009NWHARuleBooknoindex.pdf

[SteppinEasy]

Just a quick response: I recommend a snaffle. No reason to do otherwise, :).

But I also wanted to point out that under most TWH show associations (and there are MANY, lol!), not only is showing in a double bridle simply not done, but it is also against the rules.