Motorcycle half-helmets for equestrian use?

[Sdhaurmsmom]

OK, I saw this on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250374950959&viewitem=

It's a motorcycle helmet. It has vents. Look at the beefy, comfortable-looking harness. I like it...and look at the price!

I would think that motorcycle helmets would be made to withstand even harder impacts than those for bicycling or equestrian sports. What do you think? Could this be used for horseback riding (especially in winter, when venting isn't perhaps so crucial)?

They have some with flames...:uhoh: and butterflies...and skulls...and of course plain ones...

[Evalee Hunter]

The following is based on (possibly faulty) MEMORY from other discussions:

This has been discussed on eventing so you might find some info with a search. I think motorcycle helmets are not suitable (if I remember correctly from those previous threads) because they are tested to withstand a broad impact - such as landing your head on concrete - but do not stand up to a sharp impact, such as a hoof, and, also, motorcycle helmets are very, very heavy compared to equestrian helmets & thus are tiring to wear.

Furthermore, the height from which you fall is a very important aspect of head injuries & motorcyclists generally fall from less height than equestrians. The testing of motorcycle helmets is still under Snell (I think) rather than the ASTM-SEI standards used for riding helmets. Anyway, you couldn't use the motorcycle helmets for show because they wouldn't meet the required standards.

[goodhors]

I would agree with Evalee Hunter and her reasons.

Helmets sold, are designed for the sport that is named on their catagory. You don't change catagory, and use the same helmet. Bike helmets are not suitable for Motorcycle riding or riding. Riding helmets are not suitable for roller blading.

They each protect differently, according to the design they are made for. Using the wrong helmet for a sport is almost like having no helmet.

Sorry, you can't save money by getting a helmet designed for another sport.

Something else, is applying tape, paint, stickers on a helmet, can affect the plastic and protection it provides the wearer. Being plastic, you are mixing chemicals with glue and paint additives. We were constantly reminded not to put things on our hard hats at work, breaks down the protection needed for impacts.

[HydroPHILE]

From an avid motorcyclist.....just say "no" to motorcycle helmets. They are either rated by Snell or DOT - but not ASTM. However, "Snell" also tests and rates riding helmets - especially those used in horse racing and harness racing (think SMF - Snell Memorial Foundation).

Sure, a motorcycle helmet might help you in case of a fall, they are, as others have said, heavier and more awkward than a riding helmet. I have worn full-face helmets most of the day, and phew - that gets tiring, but I'd never ride without one.

Some additional reading on "half-helmets":

"The half helmet, also referred to as a "shorty", has essentially the same front design as an open face helmet but with a raised rear. The half helmet provides the minimum coverage generally allowed by law in the U.S....Unlike open face and full face helmets, half helmets are also prone to shifting and sometimes coming off of the rider's head during an accident."

I would not want a helmet "raised in the back" nor one that "shifts and sometimes comes off of the rider's head" to be used for horseback riding.

I'd rather spend the whopping $30 on a schooling helmet designed for horseback riding and safety rated correctly :)

[Kementari]

Someone (from CO, I think?) also explained many moons ago on the eventing forum that you actually don't WANT a helmet that is good for TOO high an impact (which this person found concerning about the SNELL standard for riding helmets, too, which tests at a higher impact than other standards).

As it was explained (and makes sense to me - though I doubt I'll do it justice ;)), if you were going to absorb impact with a corrugated cardboard box, you obviously don't want something so wimpy it compresses if you push on it a little. You don't want it to "bottom out," so to speak. BUT, if you use a grade of cardboard so stiff that it doesn't deform at all when your object-to-be-protected impacts it, it's not going to cushion any better than a concrete block. It needs to be soft enough to deform somewhat, and obviously how soft that is depends on what needs protecting from how much. The box that protects a heavy object in a 20' fall is going to be too stiff to protect a light object in a 5' fall.

I'm not an engineer, but that makes a heckuva lot of sense to me, given that helmets also protect by deforming. And given that, I wouldn't want to wear a motorcycle helmet, which is designed for high speed impact into asphalt, when I ride, where my potential impact is much slower and usually into a far more forgiving surface. :yes:

[Lady Counselor]

So how much is your head worth?
If it's worth $10, then spend $10.
Otherwise, don't ever scrimp on a helmet.

[Evalee Hunter]

. . . . if you were going to absorb impact with a corrugated cardboard box, you obviously don't want something so wimpy it compresses if you push on it a little. You don't want it to "bottom out," so to speak. BUT, if you use a grade of cardboard so stiff that it doesn't deform at all when your object-to-be-protected impacts it, it's not going to cushion any better than a concrete block. It needs to be soft enough to deform somewhat, and obviously how soft that is depends on what needs protecting from how much. The box that protects a heavy object in a 20' fall is going to be too stiff to protect a light object in a 5' fall.

I'm not an engineer, but that makes a heckuva lot of sense to me, given that helmets also protect by deforming. And given that, I wouldn't want to wear a motorcycle helmet, which is designed for high speed impact into asphalt, when I ride, where my potential impact is much slower and usually into a far more forgiving surface. :yes:

Kementari, your memory & explanation are so much better than mine. I remember that discussion now & it made so much sense to me - you need to match the helmet to the use & to the sort/amount of impact that is most likely. But I sure couldn't remember how to explain it when I wrote my first post. Thanks.

[HydroPHILE]

Snell (SMF) is known to "over-test" helmets regardless of their use. Kind of like bubble wrapping horses so they don't bump themselves.

[Drive NJ]

Agree with all that you want a helmet tested for the job it is going to be asked to do.

But

This reminded me of a HUH??? article I read when helmet testing was in the early stages. One or more of the helmets were being failed because the clasp on the harness weren't opening properly after being submerged in water for a long period of time. I couldn't figure out how that scenario would play out. If your head were submerged in water for a long time, I would think the helmet clasp not opening easily (it opened, just not easily) would be the least of your worries :eek::winkgrin::lol:

The wonders of the legal/administrative mind sometimes escape me.

[tangledweb]

This reminded me of a HUH??? article I read when helmet testing was in the early stages. One or more of the helmets were being failed because the clasp on the harness weren't opening properly after being submerged in water for a long period of time. I couldn't figure out how that scenario would play out.

What if you rode home in the rain for an hour?

[Sdhaurmsmom]

This is the kind of info I was looking for! I've never tried on a motorcycle helmet, so I didn't know they were a ton heavier than riding helmets.

I would never skimp on safety; that's why I was inquiring about it in the first place, instead of just going ahead and buying one! I figured there had to be some safety guidelines going on for motorcycle helmets, like we have for our helmets. It's interesting to know how those guidelines differ from ours. Thanks for your input!

[His Greyness]

After I was hospitalized as a result of Baby Belgian's moment of thoroughbred paranoia, I took a very long and hard look at all the information I could find about helmets and helmet standards. I had been wearing all the approved safety gear - ASTM helmet, body protector and even a high-visibility vest over it - and still required brain surgery after a fall of the kind that the ASTM test tries to mimic. I had e-mail conversations with members of the ASTM committee who drew up the F1163 standard.

I now wear a motor cycle half-helmet when I ride.

Being an engineer, I, a big man riding a big horse, calculated that, in my fall, my head put one third more kinetic energy than the ASTM test calls for into my helmet. Not that my helmet didn't do what it was supposed to do; that is prevent my death or permanent injury. I just wanted it to do more, like avoid the $18K hospital bill split between me and my HMO.

It's not that the ASTM F1163-04a standard is bad, but it contains compromises, like all committee decisions, that don't all work in my favour. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration publishes on their website detailed test results of motor cycle helmets they randomly select for conformance testing against the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 218. The critical parameter in FMVSS 218 is that the deceleration experienced by the head form in the test will not exceed 200G (G = acceleration due to gravity = 32 ft/sec/sec) for more than 2 milliseconds. The NHTSA test results show many helmets that exceed the requirements of ASTM F1163-04a.

Remember that helmet manufacturers do not guarantee that their products will protect you in case of a fall. They only guarantee that their products will pass the relevant standards tests. ASTM F1163-04a has proved perfectly adequate for most riders in most situations and has certainly provided better protection than was available previously. However, more protective helmets do exist. If you want to go with the top drawer you will need a U.S. Army helicopter pilot's helmet HGU-56/P made by Gentex that has a maximum deceleration specification of 175G.

Motor cycle helmets are, on average, heavier than a riding helmet but as a big man I don't notice that. They have very poor ventilation, if any. The helmet I selected is HJC's model AC-2M.

If you want to learn more about the complexities of helmets and helmet testing read this long article from Motor Cyclist On Line. (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/index.html) While it deals with motor cycle helmets most of what they say applies to any kind of protective helmet.