How important is the dressage judge?

[Flying Hippotamus]

How important is the dressage judge when you are choosing which events to attend? I need to hire a few more judges for this years shows. Do you look at who is judging? Do you think it is worth having a judge with a higher rating? Since our events only go to training I generally only hire 'r' dressage judges. Would you like to have an R? Generally we 'splurge" on the TD or PGJ if it someone who can help us improve our event. For dressage judges I usually choose those more local that are "nice". Not meaning give away good scores, I want fair that way. But some judges comment more kindly than others. And some judges can accidentally blink during some of those TB/event horse moments in a dressage test.

So without telling me names, what would you like to have for dressage judge?

[asterix]

I do look at who is judging, but I do NOT pick an event because of it -- I figure it's a crap shoot anyway, in terms of how you place in the end, no sense trying that hard to game the system...but I have ridden for most of the judges used locally and certainly like some better than others...so if a judge I don't like is on the ticket I'll just cross my fingers and hope I don't end up in her ring...

[SevenDogs]

What Asterix said, exactly! :yes:

[pegasusmom]

Winged water horse - I go through the same thoughts when hiring and have come to the same conclusion Asterix voiced. I did have one judge, no longer judging, who competitors objected to, and they let me know it.

[ss3777]

From a schooling event organizers point of view...........the judges that can not stay on schedule are a really tough challenge. If they volunteer, who cares but if you are paying them 30.00 plus dollars an hour a little help staying on schedule is much appreciated!!!

From a competitors point of view.........ditto what Asterix said.

[percheron]

I went to several schooling event last fall. The first two had young L judges and I was confused by the comments. The 3rd had a Large R judge and the comments where much more useful.
So yes the judge makes a difference and could influence my choice of venue.


We went to a schooling dressage show Saturday and one arena had a Large R and the other had an experianced L judge. Both arena gave useful comments. So nothing against L judges.

[Invested1]

I don't even look.

I know of one judge who LOFFS me and my pony and tends to score us higher than we deserve, and I also have one judge who consistently scores us lower than we deserve. As for the rest, I couldn't even tell you if I've ever ridden for them.

[Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl]

First I score the quality, timing, and location of the event. The TD and dressage judge(s) are modifiers, used to help me decide whether to award the higher or lower mark. ;)

Most shows i go to have more than one dressage judge, so it factors in less. I do prefer to ride for judges with bigger letters behind their name, but haven't ever flat our skipped a show or gone to one because of the judges panel. Actually, wait, there have been some schooling shows I've skipped - 1 judge affairs.

A good TD makes a world of difference, even or especially if I'm never directly aware of them. There are TD's I seek out, because i know they are affiliated with smooth events.

There are one or two I prefer to avoid - but mostly I just make sure not to have questions at those events.

[Catalina]

I don't pay any attention at all. There are a couple of judges that love my horse and I suppose that if I was really bad, I would stalk them and go to the shows where they are judging.... ;)

Related question: What is the order of the letters and how do you know what a judge is? Is it in the Omnibus or on the website or in the program?

[Saskatoonian]

I definitely look at the judge, but it doesn't affect my decision to enter the event or not - that's based on the XC first and foremost, and event as a whole anyway.

We do have one regular judge in this area who is, as far as I'm concerned, a beast. I still attend those events, but my consolation is that if she's my judge, I have special rules. No braiding, and I do not clean my tack. :) Well, ok, I admit that I've never actually foregone braiding, but while I'm braiding, I get a good laugh out of discussing the special rules for this judge with everyone.

[hldyrhrses]

Are dressage judges for recognized shows listed somewhere ahead of time. I always find out at the show when you get your program. Some shows post names if they do online schedules, but normally I don't see judges until day of show..


I like some variety in my judges. There are few events in Area 1 that ALWAYS have the same judges... and if they don't like your horses type... well your ALWAYS screwed.

I also like the judges that give lots of comments. Nothing worse then getting a test back with only 1 or 2 of the comment boxes filled out.

[Kementari]

I do not have any dressage judges who I will NOT show under. I do have one or two who, if I were choosing between two events, might make me choose one over the other. The possibility certainly exists that if a judge were obnoxious enough, that WOULD be enough to make me skip an event, but it hasn't happened yet. (There are are couple of judges that do open shows around here who I will not show under, even just for schooling, because they are so frustrating that it's not worth the energy...)

There is one TD I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, but luckily for me I live on the other side of the country from him now. :winkgrin: Still, I Would. Not. Go. to an event he was officiating, no matter what else it had going for it, if I did still live in that area.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

never look when entering....don't care.

Occassionally, I might look ahead to see who is judging my test....but only if I'm bored and have a lot of time....which isn't often.

I'm more likely to make a decision between two a Horse Trials based on their xc course designers. .....but usually it is more based on expense (time away from home/distance) and timing with my schedule.

[bambam]

The only official on which I have ever based a decision to enter or not is the xc cd and, with a couple of exceptions, that is merely one factor of many in the decision and not one of the most important ones. The first time I am likely to pay attention to who the dressage judge is is when I am riding around the outside of the ring before I start since there are a few in this area that have definite preferences about you ride and how your horse goes and, to the extent that I can and am aware of it, I try to cater to that a bit.

[retreadeventer]

Heck they never list all the judges anyway and by the time I pull on the grounds half the time it's changed anyway. If you're asking how much influence the judge has on the test, I'd say a lot under Training level and less at prelim level and above.
Judging in events is dismaying to me. I ride in both recognized dressage and eventing and the judging is more careful and clear at the shows than the events. I caught two very basic errors in addition in my dressage tests at events last year and one actually changed me two placings. Comments were unreadable on two tests, the scribe was just a kid and her handwriting was terrible and it was obvious she couldn't keep up. I had judges eating while judging me. I had judges chatting with two people in the booth while judging me (one scribe, one who knows). I rode tests in muddy grass fields, dusty arenas and concrete. I was rushed into the ring anywhere from 10 minutes to 25 minutes before my scheduled ride time at one event. I put all this in my event evaluations but nothing changes. They do not care.

[Beam Me Up]

Not at all important to me.

I care about the x-c course (footing, design fences), location, date, fees to some degree.

With the judge, you don't know which one you are getting until you arrive, anyway (I would not boycott an event because of a 1 in 4 chance of getting my least fave). I don't watch every test in my division, or see how all of their movements were scored, so I don't really have cause to complain that my 4 was undeserved or whatever.

I *do* hate to see the judges who put discouraging or inappropriate comment on tests. I am an adult who has accepted my/my horses' limitations so they usually don't shock me, but there is never a call for that.

[Flying Hippotamus]

They do not care.

I care!!

So it sounds like I'll just stick with the same MO. Finding more local judges who I know about. And saving our money to use on something fun like X-C.

I am surprized how many people don't look who the judges are. I guess it's because I know so many of the judges (I have run dressage shows and events for more than 10 years). I list my judges in the omnibus. I may not have them all hired by printing but they are always posted on our website. And most definitely with the schedule I tell you who your judge is. This is very important to me as a competitor (besides that I know them all and I am always slightly embarrassed) Judges look for slightly different things. For example some would rather see my TB going FORWARD even if he is a bit on the nutty side, others would rather see a conservative ride than any bad behavior. I also post it because many judges are trainers or clinicians and then competitors can't ride under them.

someone asked about the letters, just off the top of my head-
L - judges schooling shows only, then small r, large R, S, beyond that I - international ( I think) usually name and rating are listed in omnibus.

[RunForIt]

get Jane Hamlin - dressage deluxe judge AND she events...your scribes will learn ever so much and come back again and again and....:cool:

[mcm7780]

I've always checked who was judging but never based my decision to attend on who was judging. There was a judge in California that I was scared of after having a really bad ride that was judged accordingly but I didn't avoid shows with that judge...I was just scared they'd remember me! :lol:

[KBG Eventer]

I *do* hate to see the judges who put discouraging or inappropriate comment on tests. I am an adult who has accepted my/my horses' limitations so they usually don't shock me, but there is never a call for that.

I don't mind it because I guess it is kind of true, but I have had a few different dressage judges comment at the bottom of my tests that I have a cute horse with "limited dressage potential". My judge this past weekend said it, but she complimented me so that was kind of nice, lol. :)

I don't usually pay any attention to who is judging because all the events I go to have more than one judge so I don't know who I am going to get.

I like judges who leave a bunch of comments. IME it seems like event judges tend to say more, but I have also been to more events than dressage shows.

[asterix]

To the OP -- the judges are posted for most of the recognized events I go to, but I usually glance at the list just as I am looking for the xc cd (who CAN determine whether or not I go to an event, especially at prelim!!). But even if I see the list of 4 judges, I NEVER find out which one I'm riding for until the morning of so why worry?

You do learn what to expect -- one local judge always wants my horses what my coach would consider overbent. So if I remember, I sigh and overbend my horse for her. Another one hates my big horse's walk. Is convinced he's lateral and gives him 4s. No one else ever says this, but, I figure it's just the price I pay to ride at that event -- a 1 in 4 chance of a crappier than usual score.

I agree with others that if it is a one judge affair at a local schooling show I might consider my other options -- but I would typically go to such a show to get mileage for my horse or to work on some issue, not to come home with the best score of my life.

[pegasusmom]

I care!!


someone asked about the letters, just off the top of my head-
L - judges schooling shows only, then small r, large R, S, beyond that I - international ( I think) usually name and rating are listed in omnibus.

Janet will certainly correct me but L (Learner), r (recognized), R (Registered) - I may have those two backwards, S (Senior), I (International) and O (Olympic, or as a local R judge refers to them - "one of the annointed ones")

[lizanne]

I have never entered an event based on who the dressage judges were, simply because if they were announced you don't know who the judge in your ring is going to be. My daughter had an unpleassant experience recently in Aiken. She was doing a prelim. test on a TB. As she went from her 10m circle into shoulder-in (3rd. movement of the test he threw up his head, judge blew her whistle and told her that the horse was obviously lame and elimated them. There were a number of people watching their test and no one else saw lameness - resistance perhaps. My daughter and horse left the ring and asked if a veterinarian could check out the horse, he was jogged and no lameness was detected. I had my veterinarian out on the Monday when they returned for a thorough lameness exam. and nothing was detected . Now that entries are so expensive and the fact that she travelled from Va. only to be eliminated in the 3rd movement, could the judge, perhaps let her get through her test and then send her to a veterinarian to make sure he was sound enough to jump.