Black Tack - Actually ILLEGAL, or just frowned upon?

[sublimequine]

On another BB, there's a bit of a debate going on whether black tack will get you disqualified, or if they will even allow you to enter the ring with it. Tradition and looks and such aside, tell me hunters, just based on the rulebook alone, would black tack get you kicked out of the ring? :)

And yes, I know about "Don't expect to win" with black tack or anything. Even if it gave you automatic last place every class, I just want to know if it's "legal" or not. :yes:

I was always under the impression that while it's definitely frowned upon, it's technically legal, and that they cannot disqualify based on black tack alone. But I very easily could be wrong, so do correct me if I am!

(Excuse my not-knowingness, folks, trail/pleasure rider here! :lol: )

[Serah]

Its definitely legal... and by no means are you going to lose if you're the gods honest winner, just because your tack is black!

[sublimequine]

Its definitely legal... and by no means are you going to lose if you're the gods honest winner, just because your tack is black!

Really? I know hunters is a big "looks" thing, so I just assumed black tack would get you pinned last no matter what. (I don't mean this negatively, goodness knows I'm cluless about the hunter world. :lol: )

[midnightdream]

I do hunters with a black synthetic all purpose saddle and nobody ever has said anything to me about it. It would be nice to have brown but being a cash strapped student I take what my parents offered me and what fit my horse when it came to buying tack. I do more dressage too so that's why I chose the all purpose.

[sublimequine]

I do hunters with a black synthetic all purpose saddle and nobody ever has said anything to me about it. It would be nice to have brown but being a cash strapped student I take what my parents offered me and what fit my horse when it came to buying tack. I do more dressage too so that's why I chose the all purpose.

Wow, I'm surprised! Do you mind me asking what 'level' or whatever ya call it you show at? :)

[Serah]

If you go into a class u/s or o/f and put down the best round out there unless there is something god awful and distracting about your tack, you will be placed fairly. A lot of tack gets so dark after use, it would be nearly impossible to tell unless your bridle clearly looks like a dressage bridle or something weird. However, If you are tied with another horse, and they have what the industry would deem more "attractive" apparel you would definitely suffer.

I'm going to dare to say that the MAJORITY of the time, the people that are putting down such winning rides are there with H/J trainers who would never allow them to enter the ring with said tack.

I see people venture into the H/J world and perform NOTHING like a hunter and walk away thinking it was their tack or breed of horse or clothing, when in reality its because they didn't deserve to win no matter what they were wearing...


now watch someone twist my words and flame me...

[dogchushu]

It depends on your state. In some places it's just heavily regulated. Other places it's a class A midemeaner. Still others, it's a felony.

Totally kidding! It's not against the rules at all. It's not fashionable, but I don't know if I'd even call it "unconventional." Unless it's something like a very dressage-y all purpose, your judge may not even notice. A lot of dark brown tack looks black from a distance.

Now, if your judge notices it, he/she may get the impression you're new to hunters. That may or may not subconsciously affect how they score your round.

But it isn't against any rule.

PS: I haven't seen anyone kicked out of the ring because of tack, even definitely unconventional stuff like running martingales or kimberwickes. Those are at judge's discretion anyway. The only things I've sene that are definite disqualifiers are boots (in hunters) and tail wraps. Even so, they let you complete your round, but you'll often get a comment from the judge to take them off before the next class.

[sublimequine]

If you go into a class u/s or o/f and put down the best round out there unless there is something god awful and distracting about your tack, you will be placed fairly. A lot of tack gets so dark after use, it would be nearly impossible to tell unless your bridle clearly looks like a dressage bridle or something weird. However, If you are tied with another horse, and they have what the industry would deem more "attractive" apparel you would definitely suffer.

I'm going to dare to say that the MAJORITY of the time, the people that are putting down such winning rides are there with H/J trainers who would never allow them to enter the ring with said tack.

I see people venture into the H/J world and perform NOTHING like a hunter and walk away thinking it was their tack or breed of horse or clothing, when in reality its because they didn't deserve to win no matter what they were wearing...


now watch someone twist my words and flame me...

Let's hope not! I just want this thread to be informative, not a fight! :lol:

[Sebastian]

On the big AAA circuits, it is :( ed upon... But, everywhere else...as was stated, put in the best round and you get the little ribbon. :yes:

Seb :)

[sublimequine]

On the big AAA circuits, it is :( ed upon... But, everywhere else...as was stated, put in the best round and you get the little ribbon. :yes:

Seb :)

But even in AAA, you could walk into the ring and compete in black tack, right? No one would disqualify you?

[Lucassb]

The rules for the hunter division are available online on the USEF site if you want the definitive answer. http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2009/15-HU.pdf

The actual section that applies to hunter tack is:
SUBCHAPTER HU-4 ATTIRE, TACK AND EQUIPMENT.
HU125 Tack.
1. Regulation snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are recommended. A judge may penalize for non-conventional types of bits or nosebands.
2. Competitors may be refused an award unless they return to the ring for conformation or soundness with the same complete bridle in which they have performed.
3. Martingales of any type are prohibited in Under Saddle, hack and tie-breaking classes. Standing martingales are allowed for all over fence classes. All other martingales may be considered unconventional.

Local and unrated shows can adopt whatever rules they wish, but many if not most will follow the USEF rulebook.

That said, there is a lot of discretion afforded the judges in the hunter ring. You are paying for that official's admittedly subjective opinion about what they like best. And yes, there are trends - like padded bridles with wider nosebands, for example - that don't appear anywhere in the rules, but are just "known"... they fall into the rather vague category of looking the part, not into any strictly defined section of the rules. Most exhibitors want to make the best possible impression they can, and appearance is something you can more or less completely control. Walking into the ring, you want the judge to think, "Ah, here is my winner."

Tack which is different enough to be distracting isn't going to help you make a favorable impression, but each judge has their own preferences and pet peeves. One would never, for example, show in a Myler bit with hooks in front of Linda Andrisani, who is known to consider those bits unconventional. However, an otherwise typical-looking tack that happened to be black instead of dark brown is probably not going to get any particular attention.

[SmileItLooksGoodOnYou]

I have a friend that rides her junior hunter in a black stubben. Her girth is dark brown with black inlay, and her bridle/breastplate is so dark I'm not sure if it's black or brown.

She usually does pretty well, at least as well as she rode.

[sublimequine]

The rules for the hunter division are available online on the USEF site if you want the definitive answer. http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2009/15-HU.pdf

The actual section that applies to hunter tack is:


Local and unrated shows can adopt whatever rules they wish, but many if not most will follow the USEF rulebook.

That said, there is a lot of discretion afforded the judges in the hunter ring. You are paying for that official's admittedly subjective opinion about what they like best. And yes, there are trends - like padded bridles with wider nosebands, for example - that don't appear anywhere in the rules, but are just "known"... they fall into the rather vague category of looking the part, not into any strictly defined section of the rules. Most exhibitors want to make the best possible impression they can, and appearance is something you can more or less completely control. Walking into the ring, you want the judge to think, "Ah, here is my winner."

Tack which is different enough to be distracting isn't going to help you make a favorable impression, but each judge has their own preferences and pet peeves. One would never, for example, show in a Myler bit with hooks in front of Linda Andrisani, who is known to consider those bits unconventional. However, an otherwise typical-looking tack that happened to be black instead of dark brown is probably not going to get any particular attention.

Oh great, thank you for the actual rule! I didn't even know where to look for that. :)

So, say your tack was TOTALLY traditional in every way.. the right shape of saddle, right pad, right bridle, right reins, right martingale, right bit.. just the tack was black. Would that really be a big concern for a competitor? Can you still consistently win higher level classes if you're in black tack (obviously, depending on your skills as a rider :lol: )?

[Huntrs+eq]

I say may the best trip win. Maaaybe, just maybe, if two identical horses lay down identical trips and the judge sees no other tie-breakers, the non-black-tack-wearing horse would be pinned over you.

[Lucassb]

So, say your tack was TOTALLY traditional in every way.. the right shape of saddle, right pad, right bridle, right reins, right martingale, right bit.. just the tack was black. Would that really be a big concern for a competitor? Can you still consistently win higher level classes if you're in black tack (obviously, depending on your skills as a rider :lol: )?

If the tack is otherwise proper, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to tell if it is truly black or simply the very dark havana brown that is typical. The judge certainly isn't going to care.

I will point out, however, that it is not that unusual for people to think that their black tack is "very traditional" when in fact it's not. I am *not* suggesting that that is the case here; it's just an observation from having seen people show up thinking that an AP saddle/bridle with flash/web reins/whatever was "conventional hunter tack."

[sublimequine]

If the tack is otherwise proper, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to tell if it is truly black or simply the very dark havana brown that is typical. The judge certainly isn't going to care.

Thanks for the input! I'm actually pleasantly surprised by that. :)

[MissintheSouth]

If the tack is otherwise proper, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to tell if it is truly black or simply the very dark havana brown that is typical. The judge certainly isn't going to care.

I will point out, however, that it is not that unusual for people to think that their black tack is "very traditional" when in fact it's not. I am *not* suggesting that that is the case here; it's just an observation from having seen people show up thinking that an AP saddle/bridle with flash/web reins/whatever was "conventional hunter tack."

I agree with Lucassb. I have a black "traditional" saddle - it's a close contact with minimal padding or blocking, and it's a beautiful quality leather. I have ridden in it in the hunter ring, though I usually stick with jumpers. You cannot tell if it's black or dark havanna - and it matches my havanna bridle and martingale just fine. I have shown successfully in Wellington with this saddle and with a good round I pin accordingly.

I did buy it b/c it was about $1,000 less than an equivalent saddle in brown, and it fits me and my horse wonderfully.

A good trip is a good trip.

[sublimequine]

I agree with Lucassb. I have a black "traditional" saddle - it's a close contact with minimal padding or blocking, and it's a beautiful quality leather. I have ridden in it in the hunter ring, though I usually stick with jumpers. You cannot tell if it's black or dark havanna - and it matches my havanna bridle and martingale just fine. I have shown successfully in Wellington with this saddle and with a good round I pin accordingly.

I did buy it b/c it was about $1,000 less than an equivalent saddle in brown, and it fits me and my horse wonderfully.

A good trip is a good trip.

Stupid question time.. is Wellington a really big show or? :confused:

[WorthTheWait95]

Stupid question time.. is Wellington a really big show or? :confused:

Wellington, FLA is where the winter equestrian festival is held (WEF). It's a very big show.

[Huntrs+eq]

I can't say I've competed there so I don't know the exact details but...

When you hear of a h/j competitor speaking of Wellington, they are referring to the creme de la creme of horse shows-the Winter Equestrian Festival (affectionately known as "WEF," pronounced "wheff"). Approximately 12(?) weeks of Top Notch horses, riders, trainers, competition, showgrounds, food, shopping--all located in gorgeous Wellington, Florida.

Anyone care to add/edit?

[sublimequine]

I can't say I've competed there so I don't know the exact details but...

When you hear of a h/j competitor speaking of Wellington, they are referring to the creme de la creme of horse shows-the Winter Equestrian Festival (affectionately known as "WEF," pronounced "wheff"). Approximately 12(?) weeks of Top Notch horses, riders, trainers, competition, showgrounds, food, shopping--all located in gorgeous Wellington, Florida.

Anyone care to add/edit?

Oh okay, so it's kinda like Congress for Hunters! :lol:

[iridehorses]

of course if your horse is black or dark bay youd want black tack seeing as brown looks very tacky

[joiedevie99]

of course if your horse is black or dark bay youd want black tack seeing as brown looks very tacky

Nope... you still want brown, though not newmarket or chestnut.

[Dun Ciarain]

Just to make things a little more complicated, the custom saddle makers I have talked to have said that generally the jumper riders choose the darker brown for saddles and bridles, and the hunter riders choose the lighter brown shades (at least on the west coast).

[jumpytoo]

Maybe you are thinking of the driving venue
Black reins for gentlemen abd brown reins for ladies?

[mortebella]

Maybe you are thinking of the driving venue
Black reins for gentlemen abd brown reins for ladies?


Wow, not to hijack this thread but does anyone know where this tradition came from? I find this fascinating!

[luvs2ridewbs]

I always thought it was because the brown color is the natural color of the leather vs black tack which is dyed.
And I just have to say; nothing looks worse on a black/ very dark bay then light brown tack. Yuck!

[pattnic]

Maybe you are thinking of the driving venue
Black reins for gentlemen abd brown reins for ladies?

Really? I always thought it was just brown reins, period.

[Midge]

sublime, just so you know, the only place I have ever heard anyone talk about having bridles match saddles and getting the right tack color for the horse is...right her on this BB. In real life, I have never heard anyone discuss it. All the tack generally ends up some version of dark brown, so that's what you see most. The only reason black tack would be glaringly obvious is if you had a dressage or AP saddle, or a black bridle with a white browband.

Let Scott Stewart or Louise Serio start cleaning up in black tack and it will be the next fad.

[Hunter Mom]

of course if your horse is black or dark bay youd want black tack seeing as brown looks very tacky

My girl is black, and I ride in dark brown tack. It did start out slightly lighter, but with lots of oiling, it has mellowed to a beautiful deep havana color with just the slightest hint of red up close. It looks lovely on her - a very nice contrast. There is no way my trainer would have let me get black tack. Ever.

Now, I'm in a barn that does local and rated hunter/jumper shows, and we have an old-school trainer when it comes to what we wear and how our horses are turned out. If I were doing breed shows, etc., then I would go with whatever was the standard in that discipline.

[amastrike]

The official rules were posted, and just to be sure I'm clear... Is it correct that nosebands are not required?

[Lucassb]

The official rules were posted, and just to be sure I'm clear... Is it correct that nosebands are not required?

SUBCHAPTER HU-4 ATTIRE, TACK AND EQUIPMENT.
HU125 Tack.
1. Regulation snaffles, pelhams and full bridles, all with cavesson nose bands, are recommended. A judge may penalize for non-conventional types of bits or nosebands.



Most judges would consider showing without a noseband unconventional. As such, it could be penalized at the judge's discretion.

[amastrike]

It's okay if I'm penalized... my horse isn't a very good hunter, anyway. Worst case scenario is the unconventional tack takes us from next-to-last to last place :lol:.