Draft horse stabling needs

[Ember]

It looks like I will be taking on the training of two full grown PMU Belgian mares. I have some questions about their stabling needs. I've worked with large horses before, but never ones of quite this mass :)

Our barn is all pretty standard sized. We've had some tall horses in, into the 17hhs. Is there anything I need to be aware of? I've been checking out the Rural Heritage site. I would really appreciate some first hand input. Thanks

[Big Belgian]

Good, solid fencing or HOT wire to keep 'em off the boards. Ask me how I know this!! :winkgrin:

[kookicat]

I think the first questions to ask are

How big are your stalls?
How big/long are the girls?
How long with they be in each day?

:)

[tikidoc]

Good, solid fencing or HOT wire to keep 'em off the boards. Ask me how I know this!! :winkgrin:

Yup. I have a Clyde/TB cross who knocked over a couple of wood fences. He would just walk up to them and lean his butt on them until they fell over. He's fine as long as there is a string of hot wire.

[classicsporthorses]

I am so thankful my drafts have never done anything remotely like this.

One thing I will say, they do need a larger stall, good turnout-like any horse and Little grain.

[wishnwell]

Agreed on the fencing, but you would be surprised on how little they need to eat before getting fat!

[2enduraceriders]

Yup. I have a Clyde/TB cross who knocked over a couple of wood fences. He would just walk up to them and lean his butt on them until they fell over. He's fine as long as there is a string of hot wire.

:lol: There is nothing like watching a draft horse energetically scratching his rear in your barn. You then find out if you built the stalls well enough or not.

[Cielo Azure]

Electric is your friend, especially if you have wood fencing that costs a lot of money. Most of mine can be kept in electric fences but I do have two or three out of 12 that can not. They just go right through it, no matter how hot. It must be left on 24-7. They will figure out if the fence is off eventually.

Stalls 12x12 works, if they have turnout. Mine are 12x16. 12x16 works very well. I also have 12x24 broodmare/stallion stalls. Those stalls are luxury, when I build more stalls, that is a nice size. The problem with big horses and stalls is that the horses make each and every stall a pig sty and you end up paying a lot in shavings as they drink more, pee more and YES, they eat more (and s**t) more.

A lot of people who have drafts in at night only, use tie or standing stalls to cut down on work. This makes the clean up very easy. I don't like them but I have visited many friends and honestly, the horses don't mind, if they are turned out during the day.

The stall woord must be screwed together, not nailed as nails pop out too easy. Bolts must go through the wood and have nuts on the otherside of the wood, otherwise they rip out bolts that are just screwed in. The metal work tends to break down on doors. They bend hinges, pop out tracks, etc. It doesn't seem like they do until you have had them for a while and then you start to notice that doors bow, hinges are breaking and tracks no longer work right. If you have hinges on your stall door, the metalwork need to be inside not outside or they will bend them right off (I hope that makes sense). Basically, if you have the option of buying heavy duty doors, etc up front, you will save time and money in the long run.

BE CAREFUL who you turn your draft horses out with. They often end up being a little bossy and can easily hurt smaller, light boned horses.

Pasture: forget vaing grass in it unless turn out if very limited or each horse has 8-10 acres. Those big feet and huge teeth just ruin pastures. I have three on 10 acres right now and there isn't a blade of grass in there. All my pastures, even when I had 52 acres ended up being "grass poor." It is the cost of owning drafts.

If you are boarding, I would ask for a $300 deposit up front to cover extra repairs or have it in the contract that damage will be paid for by the owner unless your barn has been built to draft specs.

[draftdriver]

A big yes to electric fence backed up by wood fencing!

The big thing about drafts is the weight factor when they start scratching their butts or necks on things. They can really move the furniture around, so to speak. Water buckets get pushed out of shape; feed bins likewise. I would not use an automatic waterer in a draft horse stall, unless it was very well protected against that sort of breakage.

12x12 box stalls are OK. Boards need to be strapped every 4' to prevent them being pushed out of place. Tie rings (for standing stalls, cross ties, etc.) need to be very securely bolted in place, due to the sheer mass of these drafts, if they decide to lean back against the tie rope, even while just taking a nap. Likewise, use good hardware (snaps, door latches, etc.) to minimize unexpected breakage.

I have not found that mine were difficult to turn out with other horses. Mine are out with a 10hh donkey and an 11hh pony. My old riding horse, a very alpha chestnut mare, was boss over the whole bunch.

Watch the feed -- some are extremely easy keepers. Visit the Rural Heritage site for information about EPSM, and non/starchy-sugary feed choices for drafts. Best wishes, and enjoy the experience!

[Kota]

My Belgian does fine in a regular 12x12 stall. Although she's only around 16hh (but as wide as she is tall). After licking the strand of Hot Wire, she now respects all fencing! As far as nutrition goes, check out the EPSM diet. They may not need it now, but will do better on it in the long term. I've found it easier, as far as training goes, to ask my mare to do something instead of tell her. I dont know if it's a mare thing or a Belgian thing, but asking will get an 'okay' and telling will get a 'no way'. She also likes to think about things before she reacts and will mentally shut down if I push her.

Good luck and have fun!

[aspenlucas]

Good, solid fencing or HOT wire to keep 'em off the boards. Ask me how I know this!! :winkgrin:

LOL, I'm thinking of all my bent pipe gates from the 15.2 hand 3/4 Percheron mare's arse at my barn!

[LisaB]

And besides all the above, and they are NOT kidding, mine paws. I mean to China. They are out 24/7 so I bought a mowl. It's a stall mat with a bowl bolted onto it. And a couple grazing muzzles. I would leave them in a dirt lot, no barn (if there's shelter, even just trees) and not do the barn. Then turn out on grass for a couple of hours a day.
And do not hang any food bowls or water on any part of the barn or fence. They rip it all off. Everything on the ground. I tie mine for food time and he's super with that. So he doesn't tip over his food and ravage everyone elses.

[Corbyville283]

Electric fences are your friends.
We replace the water bucket in her stall about every three months - they're great for bum scratching and just don't survive the abuse. She has bent a gate - didn't want to wait her turn to come in so just took the gate out (as a 2 year old) and walked calmly into the barn. Didn't hurt her - scared the crap out of the barn owners.
The front of her stall is lined with rubber mats - she tends to get impatient and stand and paw at the wall and the gate she also wears kicking chains on her front legs at night (refered to as putting on her 'bracelets'
She's turned out with 'normal' horses and gets along fine but she also seems to be unaware that she's huge and could easily hurt the other two mares.
Buy an extra long lunge whip - Normal lunge whips don't give you the distance to move them out on larger circles.
She also likes to think things through as so asking instead of telling works better.
Good luck - our Percheron mare is now just 4 and is a pleasure to work with.

[LisaB]

Forgot the lunge whip! I wind up doing a long reach swift kick a lot. Big moose! When he's unaware, you have to do the kick. When you have him haltered, he's great and wonderful. Otherwise, whomp!
And this all might scare the heck out of you but really, they are wonderful to work around and quite funny. Just they are pushers and push through everything, that's their mechanism. Like we have runners and jumpers, these are pushers.

[chai]

It is very kind of you to take on those PMU mares. My old neighbor raised Belgians and they were the most beautiful, well mannered horses. When she took them out driving, she would always come by my farm because we had a great turn around area in the stable yard. It was always an amazing sight to see four huge Belgians thundering up my driveway with a variety of carriages.

I love drafties and have a Shire. Mr. chai calls my draftie Baby Huey because he is such a Mama's boy and sometimes he doesn't really know his own strength. A snuggle can send me flying, and thank goodness he is a very good boy for the farrier, because even a little movement is magnified by their sheer size. I am lucky that he was very well trained and he's a beautiful mover.
I am a huge fan of draft horses. I love their amazing spirit inside such a magnificent body, their gentleness and the heritage they have as working horses.

My only suggestions are: yes to electric fencing, go easy on the feed because they do well on surprisingly little feed as long as they have good hay, and WATCH YOUR FEET! I've had my draft for quite a while now, and I am still extra careful every time I lead him.

Good luck with the mares. I hope you'll post pictures and let us know how they're doing.

[LisaB]

Crap forgot about farrier!
I lost mine and had a heck of a time trying to find another. Why? Because they don't do drafts! And he's fine. A couple of times he's needed a wallop. But there are a ton of farriers who don't do drafts, even if they say they do, they don't. Come out once, everything's fine. Draftie does fine, I even tell them his shoe size and everything. And then can't get a hold of them. And it's expensive! Luckily, he's on trims now. Whew! One thing about drafts is picking up their feet. They are notorious for not doing it or being a pain. That's number 1 priority. Get them good about their feet.

[Corbyville283]

I agree about the feet - both theirs and mine. My mare has little concept of where she's putting her feet - could be because she's still growing - but leading her is certainly a case of watch where she's going. Going down ramps when they're all wobbly and uncoordinated is not an excercise for the faint of heart.
We bought her at 10 months old and have worked ceaselessly on getting her to pick up her feet. Because of the time we took she is great for the farrier, stands, doesn't lean on him and is a pleasure to deal with. But we did have to look long and hard for a farrier that would even consider doing her. We're also lucky in that this fellow doesn't charge extra to trim her which is how the last two were.
We keep her barefoot - partially because I think it's better for her feet and secondly because I KNOW it's better for my feet.

[splash]

What my boy has taught me:
1. Don't hang a goodie bucket in the stall. Even when empty, he will push on it so hard to find the missing goodies that he breaks the bottom of the plastic bucket.
2. Young drafts don't do reining stops well. Hence, the bent metal pasture gate.
3. Draft hoof against PVC water pipe to the auto waterer will lose everytime. My poor husband has changed out that pipe twice (once required tromping through 3 feet of snow back and forth. I was not popular, and I have since bought my hubby snowshoes for just such an emergency. The pipe is now metal!)
4. Draft horse head through the pipe corral over several months will result in broken pipe corral panel. All he wanted to do was talk to his brother next door.
5. DRAFTS ARE COOL!!!! I love my boy and wouldn't trade him for anything. He goes on the trail and everyone wants to ride their hot horses with him because nothing fazes him (including a buck jumping up next to him). He pulls the cart and is so proud of himself. Mostly, he's a giant labrador retriever.

[Ember]

OK, you guys have me terrified! I board and the lady who rescued these will be moving them to my barn if there's room or a nearby one if not. None of the places here have super solid barns or fencing. (well, ok no place reasonably priced)

Basicly she rescued them about a year ago. Since then she has been paying to have them worked with and to be honest it just isn't being done. She needs to find new homes for them and we all know what happens to unbroke broodmares that get passed down the line. I was afraid that they would end up with someone who didn't know what they were getting into (like she did) and eventually end up at auction. They would be a kill buyer's wet dream. So I figure I can at least get them ground driving, hopefully started under saddle and they should stand a better chance finding forever homes. I got laid off and am studying for some new certifications so I actually have the time to give them for the next few months. I will be shamelessly posting about them in the hopes that someone will fall in love! ;)

Mostly they're prefab barns and pipe fencing. I think the barn is made of that sandwiched stuff of wood and metal. I don't think adding hot wire is an option. The main barn stalls are probably 12 x 12. They can't go into pasture as neither is halter broke. One of the main points of moving them here is getting them in a confined area so that I can work with them. The pipe corrals and stalls with attached pens are all 12'x24'. Those are not nearly as sturdy as the box stalls though.

They will only have limited turn out while I am there in small areas. The 60' round pen or a 24' x24' pen. This will only be for a few months and they will be handled and exercized 5-6 times a week. Once they are started they will either be adopted out or moved to pasture. They will be on hay with fat supplemented as per the EPSM diet.

I AM worried about my feet. My near foot has been broken twice being stepped on and I'd like to avoid a third. I'm giving serious thought to steel toed boots. At least until they have ground manners! Currently my biggest worry is about moving them here. One of the mares leads a little, but the other, well not so much. She is in a pasture and will have to be herded to a catch pen and loaded by chute. The problem comes with the unloading. There is no way to get the trailer near the barn area. So, she will have to have a lead lesson first thing. She should follow the other mare, which should make things a little easier, but it still may get exciting.

But I digress. I'm glad to hear that 12x12 is acceptable.

I haven't asked my farrier if he does drafts yet, but if not she has one that has been doing one of the mares. The other hasn't been done for a long time. Both will need to be tranqualized. A friend that boards there is a vet so hopefully I can con her into helping with that :D

I really do appreciate the input.

[chai]

Ember, please do not be frightened off. Draft horses are really wonderful, and like any other horse they all have their own personality. By and large, they are easy keepers and very sweet horses. They are just super sized. Sometimes they just need a minute to understand what you're asking, but they really do have a lot of heart.

I'm not so sure if the steel toed boots are a good idea. I think I would rather get a squished toe from a bare draft hoof than a crushed piece of steel squishing my toes under a bare draft hoof. Drafties will laugh at a steel toe, I'm afraid.

But please don't worry. If they have some work and t/o every day and the healthy diet you have described, they will be very happy. Please let us know how it works out.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I have 2 over 17h full drafts in stalls slightly smaller than 12 x 12. They do fine, but are only in 12 hours. The smaller stalls do get MESSY though.

One came to us from a PMU rescue. He is afraid of everything, and really reacts. Most draft horses are pushy, but pretty stoic and sweet. He is too, until he gets scared. Then he will plow over or thru anything. It does not take much to set him off. I couldn't catch him in his stall when he first got here - he kept turning his head back, so I tried to drop a lead rope around his neck to hold him, He toally freaked, and I bailed out of the stall FASTER then I thought I could move. When he bolts, a chain can't stop him. A few weeks ago, his owner wanted to show me something in his stall. Both of us being in there was too scary, so he bolted out the door. This is after being here a year. He is a 9 year old. Last fall, he got his stirrup caught on a gate. He took out the gate, 2 sections of fence, and snapped 2 fairly new half round posts like they were match sticks. They have been working with him daily, and when they tried to get him ready for breaking, he would bolt eveytime someone would step onto the mounting block. We have found it is better/safer to just let him go, then catch him a minute later. His owner did buy a pretty strong bit with long shanks, and that stops him most of the time. A trainer tried to get on him, when he was tied to a post with one of those really thick, lead ropes. He snapped the rope in 2 pieces, and it was not old or dry rotted.

After dealing with him, I said I would never take in another full draft. I guess I still have not learned to never say never. A few months ago, another big girl moved in. She is bigger than the gelding, but much easier to deal with, and I am much more comfortable with her.

Drafts are usually air ferns. Feed them like they are 13h ponies.

I have 2 others that are over half draft, and my friend has 2 drafts. Of the 5, only one is on the EPSM diet, and he has gotten so incredibly, dangerously fat on the oil+ EPSM diet. The other 4 are doing fabulously on about 2 lbs of sweet feed or standard pelleted feed, and 10 lbs of hay per day. Without fail, every single vet that has been here has said, DON'T feed fat to a draft horse, they get too fat on air.

[Ember]

Steel toes are safe, even from drafties. Don't you watch Mythbusters? :D

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode42

[Ember]

Will oversized tack fit a draft head? Or does it need to be specifically draft sized?

[lewin]

It depends on the draft. Mine fits in warmblood sized stuff, but some have bigger heads.

And some of them are very respectful of people and fencing. Mine thinks she is a princess and would never paw, shove, kick, or otherwise mess with stalls or fencing. (She also happens to be a slightly hard keeper and needs the added fat into her diet.) But since they are so powerful little things become big. Instead of spooking and bumping into the feeder; they spook and tear the feeder off the wall. Be sure to enforce your personal space and good ground manners. Gentle Giants are made not born.

[Paula]

I have two Fjords (pony drafts) - Frodo and Galiana. One of mine (Frodo) is the draftiest Fjord I have ever seen and one (Galiana) is more medium but much taller. They do a lot of barn damage that I pay for at the boarding barn. Frodo the older one has leaned on stall doors and it is amazing how he can bow them out with his big old butt. In the one barn where the stall doors were on sliding casters he could lean and pop them right off the rails. He "broke" several stalls that way. Now Galianna is tough on pasture fencing. Hot wire doesn't phase her at all - she will go right through it. She has to have solid four "board" vinyl fencing (looks like boards but vinyl) reinforced with hotwire on the inside. I had to pay to have their 9 acre pasture done after her many escapes and torn down fences. Even gates have hotwire across them. Its a pain to get the horses in and out of (they live outside) but it works.

My biggest problem for tack has been a bit for Frodo. He wears a 6" to 6 1/2" bit. Galianna has a much more petite head. Both have thick tongues and low palettes and work best for dressage in a mullen mouth bit. Try finding a 6 1/2" bit!

[LisaB]

They really are nice horses! We are just giving the low-down on what the worst of them can do. Like mine does not tear up the fencing. He has on occasion used the fence as a body scratcher but nothing bad. I would keep them in those pens for as long as possible. And they won't get into trouble if you give them plenty of hay. Not rich hay! They are very much into their stomachs.
And mine just wants to be loved. He LOVES going to do his police work (well, not really police work, it's getting pet by every 10-12 kid within a 10 mile radius). And really pouts when he's doing nothing.
I would not get them near the farrier until you absolutely know that they are good about their feet. You don't want to lose your farrier. Or, ask him if he does drafts and if not, does he know someone who does. Be brutally honest with him and reiterate that these are unbroke pmu mares that you are working with.
And bravo! I'm so glad there are people like you in the world to take on these critters. Thank you!

[WaningMoon]

OK, you guys have me terrified! I board and the lady who rescued these will be moving them to my barn if there's room or a nearby one if not. None of the places here have super solid barns or fencing. (well, ok no place reasonably priced)

Basicly she rescued them about a year ago. Since then she has been paying to have them worked with and to be honest it just isn't being done. She needs to find new homes for them and we all know what happens to unbroke broodmares that get passed down the line. I was afraid that they would end up with someone who didn't know what they were getting into (like she did) and eventually end up at auction. They would be a kill buyer's wet dream. So I figure I can at least get them ground driving, hopefully started under saddle and they should stand a better chance finding forever homes. I got laid off and am studying for some new certifications so I actually have the time to give them for the next few months. I will be shamelessly posting about them in the hopes that someone will fall in love! ;)

Mostly they're prefab barns and pipe fencing. I think the barn is made of that sandwiched stuff of wood and metal. I don't think adding hot wire is an option. The main barn stalls are probably 12 x 12. They can't go into pasture as neither is halter broke. One of the main points of moving them here is getting them in a confined area so that I can work with them. The pipe corrals and stalls with attached pens are all 12'x24'. Those are not nearly as sturdy as the box stalls though.

They will only have limited turn out while I am there in small areas. The 60' round pen or a 24' x24' pen. This will only be for a few months and they will be handled and exercized 5-6 times a week. Once they are started they will either be adopted out or moved to pasture. They will be on hay with fat supplemented as per the EPSM diet.

I AM worried about my feet. My near foot has been broken twice being stepped on and I'd like to avoid a third. I'm giving serious thought to steel toed boots. At least until they have ground manners! Currently my biggest worry is about moving them here. One of the mares leads a little, but the other, well not so much. She is in a pasture and will have to be herded to a catch pen and loaded by chute. The problem comes with the unloading. There is no way to get the trailer near the barn area. So, she will have to have a lead lesson first thing. She should follow the other mare, which should make things a little easier, but it still may get exciting.

But I digress. I'm glad to hear that 12x12 is acceptable.

I haven't asked my farrier if he does drafts yet, but if not she has one that has been doing one of the mares. The other hasn't been done for a long time. Both will need to be tranqualized. A friend that boards there is a vet so hopefully I can con her into helping with that :D

I really do appreciate the input.

Steel toed boots = extreme pain when getting them cut out of your toes. And these were not cheap ones nor was the horse a draft. I would stay away from steel toes boots.

[eventersmom]

Having worked in a boarding facility with a few drafts, might I suggest an industrial strength stall fork or a shovel? Those are some heavy poo piles!

[kari]

My 17h full perch was fine in a 12x12 stall. My wood fencing however, was not. One strand of electric kept him off the wood. I also found out rather quickly the damage that they can do to pipe fencing. I have appoximately 5 bent round pen panels and 3 trashed gates from him. One strand of electric would keep him out of trouble though. Those huge dinner plate feet were hell on my pastures, he was a BIIIIIGGGGG boy, and man could he move.
He was however, one of the sweetest horses that I ever had. Spookproof, sweet, in your lap kind of horses. You will love your drafties!
Here is a pic of my draftie! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc249/karitee107/jonah.jpg

[Cielo Azure]

My 17h full perch was fine in a 12x12 stall. My wood fencing however, was not. One strand of electric kept him off the wood. I also found out rather quickly the damage that they can do to pipe fencing. I have appoximately 5 bent round pen panels and 3 trashed gates from him. One strand of electric would keep him out of trouble though. Those huge dinner plate feet were hell on my pastures, he was a BIIIIIGGGGG boy, and man could he move.
He was however, one of the sweetest horses that I ever had. Spookproof, sweet, in your lap kind of horses. You will love your drafties!
Here is a pic of my draftie! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc249/karitee107/jonah.jpg

hmmm... I like him.
But I love the Perchersons that are so clearly athletic and versatile (carriage/hitch type, as he is). he looks like he can move too.

[Rebmik]

Wish I had asked prior to purchasing my Shire!!!! then 2800lb Belgian...
1. MUST have electric fencing or something equal.
2. Must have sturdy stall doors, gates (Shire came out of stall with stall
door around his neck when 1st got him:cry:)
3. EPSM and shivers learn everything you can. Most local vets will not know
about some of the different problems drafts encounter.
Personally my Shire would have been put down w/o EPSM diet (gets 4 cups
veg oil/day )
4. Farrier....:cry:....farrier......just got stocks for my EPSM horse because
drugs were no longer working to be trimmed (on 3rd farrier)
5. EXPECT to FALL IN LOVE! I will never have another breed! Problems and all!!!:D

[kahjul]

I have to completely disagree with alot of the posters. My draft X ( X-so maybe thats the difference?) Would never touch a fence. She is the BO's favorite horse where I board. Has never leaned on or chewed on anything. We jokingly say we could fraw a chalk line to keep her in. Her stall is 16 x 20 with a grain bucket hanging, an auto waterer inside and a salt block holder. She has never even moved any of these items. She will occassionally on a very hot day put both front feet in the trough outside, but has never damaged it. She doesn't drag her feeder around, she doesn't take blankets off the fence. She has never torn a blanket. She is very polite about her feet-where they are in relation to her and me. She poops all in 1 pile (actually right on top of the previous poop) so it just gets taller. It's in the far corner of her stall. She wouldn't dream of walking through it. She does pee everywhere and anywhere and alot! She also really likes to smash her whole body in the wettest spot she can find. So she's not a princess-but certainly very easy to house. She is 16.2 and 1500#.
So all I'm saying is don't be too scared. They are all individuals.

[Corbyville283]

Our 17 hand 1800lb Percheron is in a 12x18 stall (I think). She is actuall quite clean in it - poops and pees along the back wall. Not hard to keep clean but it certainly is a work out to pick up her poop piles. When being ridden in the indoor she still hasn't figured out how to move and poop - it's been jokingly suggested that if we put standards on either side of them they'd provide a nice jump.
She also is has a very large labrador retriever personality - she'd love to come over and snuggle on the couch.
She's been driving since she was 2.5, absolutely loves children and is gentle as a lamb with them. She's a wonderful ambassador for the breed.

[chai]

Ember, I don't want to hijack such a great thread into a footwear discussion, but when I lived in ME, my farrier told me that he never wore steel toe boots after a draftie stomped down on his toe and the steel bent right into his foot. Ouch. He couldn't resist giving me a very detailed description of the damage.

I do like those mythbuster guys. Maybe we should get them in on this so they will know the one thing that has power over a steel toed boot! :-)

[Fairview Horse Center]

My farrier always uses steel toed boots, and has for 40 years. He said he has had huge drafts standing on them.

These are marketed in the US with all of our ambulance chasing lawyers. IF they would not hold up a Mack truck, the manufacturers would be involved with lawsuits out their ears. There would be NO companies offering them for sale.

[Cielo Azure]

I dont wear steel toes because they hurt my feet when cleaning stalls but they do work. Watch that Myth busters show and remember that these boots are governed by strict standards. This wasn't always the case, but it is now. I wouldn't go buy my boots at Walmart or made from China though. Go buy American made steel toed boots, that have the standards printed on the box.

However, I find that most of my horses just don't step on my feet and I work them a lot and I have a lot of drafts. If you are having problems, maybe it is time to rethink your horse's ground manners and what you are finding acceptable behaviors?

The ones that tend to step on me are yearlings and young two year olds or horses that come to me for lessons in ground manners. As they age, they get with the program.

[kari]

hmmm... I like him.
But I love the Perchersons that are so clearly athletic and versatile (carriage/hitch type, as he is). he looks like he can move too.

His mom was the best moving horse that I had ever seen. She literally FLOATED over the ground. So she was not a "hitchy" show horse. She was a love, 16 hand girl. Sweet sweet sweet mare. His dad is Windermere's Gladiator...need I say more? Wish I still had that handsome boy, but he just got too big for me. When I sold him at 6 years old, he was 17.3. I couldn't get on him without a really big stepstool. He was enormous. I called him my Draftasaurus. He was great.

[JSwan]

Don't be scared of the big guys. Just be firm and quiet and gentle. Just cuz they're big doesn't mean you need to beat them to get their attention.

(you are permitted to pummel on their shoulder helplessly when they step on your foot, though):lol:

Seriously - these horses are not bred to be destructive fire breathing dragons. They're bred for work and to be easy to work around.

Good manners, a good strong fence (ALL livestock fences should be strong and solid), and treat them well.

One of mine is about 17, but he's half Percheron (I don't know which half because all of him is huge). Other than silly baby stuff he's grown up to be a fine young horse. I have another cross who is somewhat bigger than an average horse and he is the kindest most gentle horse I have ever known.

I once knew a gigantic Belgian mare named Loretta. She was another gentle giant.

Good luck.

[Ember]

OK, now I'm all curious about the steel toed boots! I just wonder, with those who have had the metal bent in, if they were not rated as Cielo Azure suggested. Or what the damage would have been had they not been wearing them. I was pretty convinced by the show I watched. They tested them pretty thoroughly.

See chai, not a hijack at all!

Cielo, these are unhandled PMU mares, I certainly don't consider stepping on my feet acceptable behavior. I just would rather not loose a foot to the debate in the mean time.

Jswan, you guys are a hoot. I did the pummeling thing with the first mare who broke my foot. She was off a 6 hour trailer ride and I think her legs were numb from the vibration. She stood there on my foot until I literaly pushed her foot off mine. Had no idea she was standing on me. If I were afraid of them I wouldn't have taken this on. Being afraid of a horse is just asking for an accident. I just feel that forwarned is forearmed and I don't want to miss thinking of something.

I am still worried about the sturdyness factor at my barn though. This is a budget endevour and I just don't think I can afford the hotwire accoutremonts.

So then, any of you halterbreak an older draft? Anything I should do differently due to their size? I just intend to treat them like I would any other horse. I've started a number of older horses including broodmare.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Electric fence can be put up for less than $100. http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRIC-FENCE-CHARGER-CATTLE-HORSES-SUPPLIES-TACK-FARM_W0QQitemZ330306933999QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Fa rm_Supplies?hash=item330306933999&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

Then all you need is the wire, ground rod, and fence post attachments.

We left a leather halter on the one we have until we were comfortable catching him.

[JSwan]

I don't know if this helps but I don't have hotwire on my fences. However, I do have a small herd and large paddocks with trees. So if the livestock want to rub on something I guess they're rubbing on trees.

I did have to install bull gates at the gate going into the barn and the 2nd gate in the sacrifice paddock. This where everyone congregates and fights because they all want my attention. But the bull gates are 12' wide and I think were around 90$ each.

I would have thought PMU mares were at least halterbroke and handled. Am I mistaken? I've only dealt with the foals, not the adult mares.

The pummeling comment is due to direct experience. The horse in question isn't as big as a full Belgian but he once stepped on me and then LEANED. I pummeled his shoulder and yelled helplessly get it off get it off get it off get it off...... while my friends stood by and laughed.

Silly horse. Silly friends. Silly me. :lol:

[amdfarm]

Draft on foot pummel experience, been there. 17.2hh, 2000 lb mare w/ scotch bottoms and drill tek, stepped on my foot and through my pummeling and cursing at her to STEP OVER repeatedly, she twisted her foot off mine. Broken pinky toe.

PMU mares not regularly used on the line aren't going to be as handled as the ones on the lines every year. They could have been back up mares, kept out 24/7 and foaled out w/ little human contact other than the basics.

I treat my Percherons and Percheron crosses just like I do the light horses and ponies they live w/ 24/7. Trust, patience and respect is all the same no matter what size they are.

Teach them how to lead like you would a regular horse, but remember, they're VERY STRONG!! ;) Halter breaking weanlings can be a challege in itself. Sometimes a two person job especially when I do it. I'm not very big and they could easily drag me around or pick me up off the ground.

Be careful, use common sense, you'll be fine. Enjoy working w/ those big girls and keep us posted on your progress w/ them.

[Fancy That]

Hey Ember!!! How funny! We both have Morgans, and now Belgians!! How nice of you to work with these mares.

Ditto what everyone said. They are ITCHY BUTTS and with their size, can really "bring down a fence or shed" :)

We love our Belgian. He is well trained and is the perfect husband-horse. We keep him in pasture and we just bought our own 4 acre ranch TODAY (closing)

Bless you for helping those mares!! They are truly gentle giants. I hope that with more training and handling, they'll be adoptable.

Personally - I wouldn't even keep my Morgan in a 12 x 12 stall...but that's just me. Always have pasture ponies and they are happy that way.

Good luck and send pics!!

Here's a couple of our boy, Jake (17.3 hands)

The day I tried him out:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/DSC00869.jpg


With Chris:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/DSC00943_sm.jpg

In the roundpen, after a roll:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/Jake%20October%202008/JakeOct08011_small.jpg

Our version of "hand grazing" with the mares:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/123108051.jpg

[Ember]

I' so jealous Fancy! Where's your new place? What a handsome boy he is. I want to see a pic of him next to Fancy. I bet they match.

I'd love to have pasture. It looks like if they come they will be in 12x24 mare motels. The BM wants more than we had figured for board so we shall see if it works out. I'm starting to feel less like a crazy person and more like looking forward to it :)

[Daisey-Bogie]

IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO TACH THEM GROUND MANNERS THEN, MAY I SUGGEST THE ROPE HALTERS. THEY DO WONDERS FOR THE LARGER BREEDS. THE THIN ROPE PUTS PRESSURE ON THERE POLE AND THEY CAN NOT LEARN TO PULL AGAINST. I LOVE THEM. MY 23 YR OLD HALFLINGER, I KNOW SHE IS NOT AS BIG BUT SHE LIFTED MY 250LB HUSBAND, TIMBER FRWMER OFF THE GROUND ONE DAY WITH HER HEAD. PUT THIS HALTER ON HER AND HER OWNER, I LEASE HER, SAID WOW IT DOES WORK.. I GOT ONE CONVIRT. TRY IT!!!! GROUND MANNERS, GROUND LESSONS, GROUND LESSONS FOREVER!!!

[Raystown]

We have board fence and the Clydesdale never messes with it. No hotwire needed for him. The regular-sized horses are harder on the fence than the Clyde is.

[nightsong]

I think that taking an unused-to-humans animal from a pasture to a situation where the most room they have is a 12 x 20 corral is going to cause problems in itself. Especially when you put up electric so they can't get near the edge of their space, making it effectively much smaller.

[Ember]

I went to see them yesterday. It looks like I will be bringing the less handled of the two over first. The older mare is in a stall and being handled a little bit. There is someone there who has been grooming her and teaching her to lead a bit. The younger mare hasn't been touched since last summer. I went into her pasture to get a feel for her attitude. I was able to get quite close by approaching her side on and focusing on the other friendly horses. Good news is that she's not scared of people, just not handled or interested in being handled. Also she seems quite submissive.

It will definitely be interesting though. I'm still working out the logistics of getting her haltered and from the trailer to her new pen.

Nightsong, she is not completely unused to people. For the last year she has been in a small pasture with other horses that are handled often. She is fed twice a day and the pasture is located fairly centrally. And to be quite honest there really isn't any other option. Though I agree with you about the hot wire and don't intend to use it. Of course there will be problems. It's only to be expected, life isn't perfect. The lady who rescued them is doing her best and I'm offering her the best that I can to help find them good homes.

[Ember]

And here are some pics

Here she is last year

http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/63/763/3/75/79/2961375790070763158JKqVqZ_th.jpg

And here she is yesterday.

http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/72/172/4/33/57/2125433570070763158zcXpLC_th.jpg

Definitely full Belgian. She is actually the smaller mare. I'd guess 16.2 or so. Her feet should be interesting. I couldn't actually see them in the mud.

http://thumb18.webshots.net/t/74/74/3/21/7/2853321070070763158vsGBUQ_th.jpg

[SunshineAcres]

I've lost my big toenail three times due to being stepped on by my Belgian!
As far as housing them, A standard size stall will be sufficient. Remember, drafts can and do lay down in tie stalls. Also draft horses are short backed so a 12x12 stall should be just fine. I have two strand hot wire fencing and the drafts respect it just fine.