advice needed on a feeding a hard keeper pony

[skyy]

I recently bought a 6 yo green pony mare for my daughter. She is a TB/Welsh mix and we bought her from her breeder where she was not in a consistant program. At the breeders she got no to very little grain and good hay and was an easy keeper. She was not turned out on grass. Now that she's in a program, we are having trouble keeping weight on her. She currently eats beet pulp and a senior feed with a weight builiding supplement twice a day. She gets unlimited decent quality timothy/orchard grass hay. We had her on a high fat sweet feed but she was a bit hot so we switched her to the senior feed (the extra energy may have been due to less than adequate turnout on crappy footing - ahhh, winter in Pennsylvania!). She dives into her grain and licks the bucket clean. She is on a regular worming program and will have her teeth done next month. She is very fit and happy and doesn't seem like a pony who would have ulcers but her coat quality could use some help.

Do any of you pony people have any suggestions? All of our other ponies have been super easy keepers who could survive on air so this is new territory. I am a bit neurotic about the whole pony/founder thing so we have only cautiously inched up her grain.

Because she is built like a TB, will we be able to turn her out on grass in the spring (with the usual slow introduction) or because she is a pony we shouldn't? All of our other ponies do not go on grass.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[quicksilverponies]

She should be able to go out on grass without a problem if you introduce her to it slowly as you suggested. All of my large ponies go out on grass all day once the weather cooperates, however, my fields are not lush on purpose, so you will have to keep an eye on her. If she gets fat and a cresty neck at some point, then definitely take her off the grass. In the meantime, to put weight on her, I would feed her a relatively low starch feed - I feed mostly Purina Strategy to my mediums and larges - the ones that need more weight also get Unbeetable, a beet pulp based feed made by Buckeye that is low in starch, as well as Ultimate Finish, another Buckeye product that is mainly fat. For example, I had a Welsh/TB mare that was low in weight when I got her - I gave her 6 cups of Strategy, 2 cups of Unbeetable, 1 cup of Ult. Finish plus 2 TBSP Fast Track 2X/day. Of course, we gradually got her up to that amount. I use FastTrack, which is a probiotic - as that will help her better utilize her nutrients. My stallions, which tend to be hard keepers in the Spring because of breeding season are fed Purina Ultium, which is more expensive, but also a feed you could use. If she isnt gaining, add the Unbeetable and Ult. Finish. Plenty of good grass hay. As long as her teeth are good and she has been wormed appropriately, she should start gaining weight in a few weeks. Good luck with her.

[Hawkeye_horses]

I have off-track tbreds and they go through similar weight fluctuations when they move from the track to life on turnout. I feed Nutrena senior feed mixed with Safe Choice, and free choice grass hay. I don't use any supplements. The thing that seems to have made the most difference for my mares has been supplementing their grass hay with alfalfa. They each get 2 to 3 flakes of alfalfa daily, in addition to the free choice grass hay. The other thing I suspect is helpful but don't know for sure is ProBios. I tube my horses with it the day before I haul them anywhere, each day while they are off property, and the evening they return. I've read that the good bacteria can counteract the bad bacteria that causes ulcers, and because NSAIDs are used so chronically on the track, I suspect all OTTB's are susceptible to the re-triggering of ulcers. While your pony doesn't have that history, she has experienced a big change lately that may have led to her weight loss. If it doesn't turn around soon, I'd definitely consult with a vet. Good luck!

[VirginiaBred]

Get her teeth checked. I see you're getting that done next month - why wait?

Also, there is a fabulous supplement called Fat Cat and that has really made a difference with a couple of ours that were lean looking. Results start to show in about two weeks.

[2enduraceriders]

The senior feeds have a lot of fiber in them. So to get the calories to gain weight you will need to feed more.

It sounds like you are doing fine with the slow changes in feed.

Anytime you increase her calories enough to put on weight she will get a bit high strung. So you need to decide to keep her a bit thinner then you like so she does not scare your daughter then fatten her up after she is more broke or fatten her up now.

We now own a little one who is turning 4. Poor guy is terrible thin. Every time they increase his calories he started to play, scared the owners and they took him off most food. He is now playing and learning manners and will be rode soon. He still seems totally shcked over all you can eat hay...:winkgrin:

Good luck with her. It is more important to keep your daughter safe then to have a fat pony.

[skyy]

Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming!

As for the dentist, our dentist (Geoff Turnbull) does not live close to us and does our barn twice a year. We have tried other dentists over the years but he is far the best we've every had and very patient with the horses. As I do the scheduling with him (I work where I board), I've managed to get everyone on a schedule so this works out well. Unfortunately, we got this pony right after he came so we've had to wait. When I did the pre purchase, the vet said that her teeth looked okay and she thought the pony could wait to be done.

So, another question - I've always read that the protein is the bad thing for ponies (thus no alfalfa or clover), not the starch. Is the thinking different now?

[hype]

You may want to check for ulcers. We had one at our barn who started to exhibit some behavioral changes and was hard to keep weight on. His coat was beautiful though. After a month of ulcer meds, he's now gaining weight again.

This horse was not in a showing program at the time he got ulcers. His work schedule didn't change etc, feed was the same so who knows why he developed ulcers. He was not on any meds at least the year prior to getting the ulcers.

[BuddyRoo]

Ponies have a higher incidence of IR and Cushings which is probably why you've heard so much about steering clear of sugar.

Calories from fat and protein are much less likely to cause a horse to be "hot" compared to sugar which spikes the blood sugar levels. Though, any horse getting too much food and not enough exercise can get a little amped up.

If I were in your shoes, I'd have the vet out. Do an exam. Pull blood and make sure that organ function is good and that blood levels are in good shape. Check a fecal. Makes sure your deworming program includes praziquantel for tapes. You're already checking teeth soon, that's good.

While you MAY just be encountering a simple "more groceries needed" type problem there are other possibilities. As mentioned before, Cushings is something ponies are prone to. And contrary to popular belief, Cushings doesn't always mean fat. Some Cushings horses have a real hard time keeping weight on. So...even though she's quite young for onset of Cushings, it would be something to keep in the back of your mind.


If it's just a simple grocery problem, then I would recommend something like Nutrena Compete and add some oil. Feeding a senior feed that is designed to be fed in large quantities (for roughage) isn't going to get as many calories into her. Oil is a good way to bump up caloric intake (fat calories=cool calories) and it's not expensive.

[kwilhide]

I have a 6yo TB/Welsh cross large, live in PA, and use Geoff Turnbull. Scary!!

Anyway, we recently moved our pony from a boarding barn where she was in quite a bit to a farm where she gets 24/7 turnout. She did lose some weight initially(she thinks she is now a mustang), and I worry about the same things that you do re: founder, etc. I had her on Purina WellSolve, and it just didn't seem to be enough for her(she is not thin, but was not filled out either, she was pretty fat before, but stood around alot). Her coat also seemed rougher than usual.

I recently changed her to Purina Ultium and she is doing much better. She needs the higher fat content, I think. She also gets a probiotic and some flax as well, and I have put her on Succeed for the time being, as a friend of mine had remarkable results with her TB mare once she started using this product. It is expensive, but seemingly worth it, so we'll see.

When we first got her 1.5 years ago, she was thin, and it also seemed to make a difference to have the vet tube worm her (old school, I know, but she really bloomed after that). I have recently powerpaked her, but I haven't noticed that it made much difference, she is on a very regular worming schedule. I think she is just running off the weight now that she gets plenty of excercise.

[Windswept Stable]

If she came to my program, I would do the following:
1 - worm her for encysted stronglyes.. Pancur PowerPac 5 day -- immediately.
2- have an equine dentist - out to do a power float now--not next month
3--personally, I would go with a low carb =high fat grain
which since you use senior--I could live with that choice--but not all seniors are created equal. I would use Triple Crown Senior as it has high fiber and high fat. Another choice would be Triple Crown complete.
What size is the pony, and how much grain are you giving?

4-- I would supplement her with Triple Crown Rice Bran pellets.
they are high fat and much less mess than dealing with oils
5- continue with unlimited hay
6- cold nights--keep her in the barn, and at all times when it's colder than 45degrees--keep a blanket or sheet on her. Make sure she has a shelter outside at all times against the wind/rain/ ice. IF you have her clipped--double blanket. I am surprised at the number of people that shave ponies and then offer them one thin blanket (not saying you do that of course)
7-- make sure she is not "stressing" -- I have had pony mares in particular that did not like the paddock that I picked for them and thus they spent hours pacing the fenceline... so watch for clues like that and move her if necessary
8- and Yes, to grass. There is nothing like mother nature tohelp you out. HOWEVER, it is up to you to keep an close eye on her for signs that shes had too much grass.

[MaryKay]

When I had a TB that I wanted to put more weight on but did not want to make her hot, I used Trifecta from Buckeye feed. I would recommend you go to their web site and if you call them and explain your situation, they will recommend a feed for you.

http://www.buckeyenutrition.com/equine/index.html

You will also see a big improvement in your pony's coat. Good luck.

[skyy]

I wanted to thank everyone again for their help. We Powerpak'd her and got her teeth done and in less than 6 weeks she is looking much better and her coat is better too. I contacted the owner of her full brother and he goes out on grass just as much as their horses so that made me feel better about her intro to grass. And, as a small boast, she went and did the Baby Greens at an A show on Friday and got Reserve!

[JB]

Lots and lots of "how to feed my hard keeper" over on Horse Care :)

[Limerick]

Skyy, that is aweesome news!!! Can we see pics of the obviously talented pone-pone? :)