Joe Fargis Clinic... Worth It?

[CThorse]

There is a Joe Fargis clinic near me in a month, and I was wondering if it was worth going to. It's a two day clinic for $425 (so quite expensive). I've heard great things about him, but I wasn't sure yet. What does everyone think?

[lauriep]

Absolutely! He is one of the top clinicians out there, and very popular.

[supershorty628]

YES. Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

This is the one at Far Meadow, yes? I'm going to that with Nikki for the second year in a row! Love Joe, he's great.

[showjump]

Yes!!! He is a great horseman. I would go to the clinic.

[chunky munky]

Worth it?? YOU BETCHA!

[Triplicate]

YES YES YES !

[CThorse]

YES. Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

This is the one at Far Meadow, yes? I'm going to that with Nikki for the second year in a row! Love Joe, he's great.

Yes! Great, okay!

[gotrocks]

Worth every penny and you will love him!!!!

[Lucassb]

I guess I will be the lone voice of dissent here.

I rode with Joe @ Far Meadow in a clinic the year before last. I was honestly somewhat disappointed.

Joe is a wonderful horseman, of course, and a genius when it comes to riding. I very much like his emphasis on quiet, calm schooling and the way he makes the exercises progressive and builds the horse's confidence.

That said, I would much rather spend that kind of money on private lessons, since my experience with his clinics is that everyone does drill team style flatwork (think follow the leader around the ring doing serpentines, etc.) and then you jump through a grid. Only the most advanced riders (two pros and a very advanced amateur jumper rider) did any individual fences or course work. Every other group below 4' did the same group flat and grid routine.

There was *very* little individual attention or instruction. I have done tons of clinics and I don't expect a private lesson when I am riding in a group, but for $425, I sure as heck want more than, "Be straight. Ok, good... Next!"

It's not that I disagreed with any of the information presented, just that it was all very general and I feel I could have gotten the same information by auditing the sessions for a whole lot less $$. I got no specific individual feedback or instruction at all.

Just my $.02

[MEADOWLARK]

Not the lone voice. I had the exact experience and was greatly dissappointed.

[yellowbritches]

Definitely worth it. I PREFER simple, no nonsense type clinicians and trainers. I rather hear a few key things. That being said, when I cliniced with him, he did always comment on a individual issues (and harrassed the boss to no end about certain things because he felt like he could pick on him a bit ;)). Maybe because the reason we got to clinic with him was different (our farm owner was his cousin) and it was a very small group of nothing but event riders that he spent a little more time having us fix things. It was good fun, very challenging for me on the particular horse I was on but very confidence building and inspiring.

[supershorty628]

I just want to add: I was lucky enough to get to work with Joe again when I was at the VSF last year and he was fantastic. I'd been working really hard on what he said my issues were, and not only did he remember me and Nikki, he remembered what my problems had been and saw that I had fixed them. He also gave me some words of wisdom at Syracuse when I forgot how to steer and had a nervous breakdown. He really is wonderful.

[chawley]

I guess I will be the lone voice of dissent here.

I rode with Joe @ Far Meadow in a clinic the year before last. I was honestly somewhat disappointed.

Joe is a wonderful horseman, of course, and a genius when it comes to riding. I very much like his emphasis on quiet, calm schooling and the way he makes the exercises progressive and builds the horse's confidence.

That said, I would much rather spend that kind of money on private lessons, since my experience with his clinics is that everyone does drill team style flatwork (think follow the leader around the ring doing serpentines, etc.) and then you jump through a grid. Only the most advanced riders (two pros and a very advanced amateur jumper rider) did any individual fences or course work. Every other group below 4' did the same group flat and grid routine.

There was *very* little individual attention or instruction. I have done tons of clinics and I don't expect a private lesson when I am riding in a group, but for $425, I sure as heck want more than, "Be straight. Ok, good... Next!"

It's not that I disagreed with any of the information presented, just that it was all very general and I feel I could have gotten the same information by auditing the sessions for a whole lot less $$. I got no specific individual feedback or instruction at all.

Just my $.02


I have to agree with Lucasb. I audited one of his clinics and was a bit disappointed. I think he is a great horseman who is obviously very accomplished, but as Lucasb said, I didn't see a lot of individual instruction either. Most of the riders in the advanced class were very different, yet the advice and instruction was rather generic. He was extremely professional and gracious, but I've participated in clinics with lesser known people that were far more engaging. But, this kind of thing is completely subjective. Some people like the way Joe teaches and others prefer a more technical approach. I've had the good fortune of participating in clinics with some outstanding trainers/riders. My favorite of all times was Michael Matz. Wow.

[Chef Jade]

I had the same disappointing experience. :no: I respect the man and know he is a fabulous horseman and rider, but I didn't get much out of it, especially for the price. We were at a beautiful facility with a huge grass GP ring with all the natural jumps, and all we jumped was a grid in the sand ring...

[fair judy]

IT IS A CLINIC. do not expect personal attention.......... and it is a compliment if you don't need it! a clinic is intended for a broad overview.

[Serah]

I would most definitely go! $425 is cheap for a two day clinic... at least around here...

[Janet]

Personally, I would find out how many people in each group. If more than 5, I would be inclined to audit instead.

The time I took it, I also helped as jump crew for the previous sessions, and I really learned as much doing that as my own session.

The exercises and commentary are GREAT, but just not that personalized in a large group.

On the other hand, I did the clinic with another rider, who was inimidated by the extent of "personalization"/ direct criticism of a George Morris clinic. And for her, she was much more comfortable being less "targeted".

So it all depends on what you are looking for.

I have also seen his semi private lessons.

I'd rather take a lesson with Joe Fargis, but a clinic with George Morris.

[jse]

I'd audit instead of participate in the clinic...I wouldn't fork that kinda money over. JMHO....

[je.suis]

YES !!!!!!! That is so inexpensive for a two day clinic. Especially with Joe. You will have a great learning experience .

[chawley]

IT IS A CLINIC. do not expect personal attention.......... and it is a compliment if you don't need it! a clinic is intended for a broad overview.

Then how do you explain a George Morris clinic? I just finished a two day clinic with an R judge and received plenty of individual instruction, which was great as I was riding a greenie that I've never sat on before. The groups were no more than four horses though.

The Joe Fargis clinic I audited had 7 or 8 horses/session, which means it would have been impossible for him to focus a great deal on each individual.

[Lucassb]

IT IS A CLINIC. do not expect personal attention.......... and it is a compliment if you don't need it! a clinic is intended for a broad overview.

I can assure you that my riding is not anywhere near good enough to warrant a lack of criticism from someone at the BNT level.

Clinics are about building skills, often from a more accomplished/proficient/higher profile instructor than you might routinely have access to. It is about getting a second, very experienced set of eyes on your riding and learning new ways to approach your weaknesses so that they can be more effectively addressed.

While you should not expect the kind of focused attention from the instructor in a clinic setting that you would in a private lesson, there is no point in paying hundreds of dollars to hear broad generalities that you could obtain just as easily by auditing for $40 or $50.

Most BNTs seem to offer a LOT more detailed and individual instruction than this particular clinician. Frank Madden, Anne Kursinski, Geoff Teall, GM, etc all provide TONS of very specific direction in their clinics, and charge about the same. They are a better value, IMO. YMMV

[Janet]

Then how do you explain a George Morris clinic? I just finished a two day clinic with an R judge and received plenty of individual instruction, which was great as I was riding a greenie that I've never sat on before. The groups were no more than four horses though.

The Joe Fargis clinic I audited had 7 or 8 horses/session, which means it would have been impossible for him to focus a great deal on each individual.
To me, that is the issue, the number of people in the session.

I would rather pay more, and be sure there were no more than 4.

[fair judy]

does mr. fargis has any control over how many students are in each group?

the clinics which i have hosted with RWM and melanie smith were strictly by the day prices with a start and end time. it was up to me as the organizer to use my discretion as to group size and composition.

since ronnie was a regular at my place, it was indeed possible to have progressively more cohesive groups. he was at my farm at least four times a year.....but there was always a group of newbies. one thing a clinic organizer can and should do is to require the participants in the new group to be there to audit for the morning sessions. i learned to put the "newbies" in the slot just after lunch. with RWM, if you could NOT steer to the middle of a rail on an oval track without breaking or swapping your lead, then you did not jump that day. ronnie and i used to get a kick out of watching who was smart enough to use the rails to warm up......... inevitably the ones who didn't feel it was That Hard ( you could see them snickering as they watched the previous groups make it look easy) were the worst in performing this seemingly basic task.

but melanie did not have that advantage. she took a widely diverse group of people and gave them insight into her philosophy. most were ecstatic with the clinic, but there were a few who felt that they didn't get enough "personal time".

i love to buy cookbooks. i have stacks of them. people always ask me "why do you keep buying those things?" because if i find one recipe in a cookbook which costs $50 that makes the entire book worth it to me.

i have to say that my auto mechanic charges more than the price of this clinic.........

[MIKES MCS]

I can assure you that my riding is not anywhere near good enough to warrant a lack of criticism from someone at the BNT level.

Clinics are about building skills, often from a more accomplished/proficient/higher profile instructor than you might routinely have access to. It is about getting a second, very experienced set of eyes on your riding and learning new ways to approach your weaknesses so that they can be more effectively addressed.

While you should not expect the kind of focused attention from the instructor in a clinic setting that you would in a private lesson, there is no point in paying hundreds of dollars to hear broad generalities that you could obtain just as easily by auditing for $40 or $50.

Most BNTs seem to offer a LOT more detailed and individual instruction than this particular clinician. Frank Madden, Anne Kursinski, Geoff Teall, GM, etc all provide TONS of very specific direction in their clinics, and charge about the same. They are a better value, IMO. YMMV


I'm yet another who would have to agree with this assesment , I love Joe as a rider and trainer... as a clinician I have observed that if he doesn't have the absolute highest level of horse and rider to work with as a GROUP, he employees to drill work and rountine basic gymnastics both days, which in itself is not so bad, but may be disappointing if the participant is expecting actual course work.

[Lucassb]

Most clinicians will specify a limit on the number of riders per group; that number can vary depending on the agreement they reach with the clinic host.

I suppose there is always an incentive for hosting barns to add extra riders when they simply have to cover a day rate plus expenses, but most of the barn owners I know who host clinics understand that smaller sized groups generally result in higher participant satisfaction - and therefore riders who will come back for future clinics.

The barn mentioned by the OP has allowed groups of 8-9 in past clinics. While they have a large enough arena to handle that size group, there are a lot of people (myself included) who just.don't.go.there.anymore, based largely on the reasons I cited earlier.

[Janet]

does mr. fargis has any control over how many students are in each group? I think so, since
A) I took a clinic with Joe F at the same barn I took the GM clinic, and teh groups were much smaller for GM
B) just on this thread, numerous people from differrent parts of the country have commented on large groups at JF clinics.

But, regardless of whether or not HE has control of the numbers, I would ASK THE ORGANIZER how big the groups are, before signing up.

[BAC]

does mr. fargis has any control over how many students are in each group?

Large numbers of clinic participants means lots of dollars. :yes: Most clinicians specify the size of the groups in my experience.

[supershorty628]

Here are some clips from the 3'6''+ group last year. No comments on my riding please, just showing that Joe does give pretty individualized attention. I wish I had clips from the day with flatwork and gymnastics, but my camera battery died so I don't. Anyway, take a look if you want - you get to see how Joe worked with me (my problem was that I would lock my hands down and be pretty stiff with my arms. He actually called me Pipe Arms for the clinic!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRP24z5R0bE&feature=channel_page

[HunterKatie]

I hosted a Joe Fargis clinic last year (after hosting a Jeff Ayers and Bill Moroney clinic as well) and I had many people come up to me and tell me that they would love to come to any other clinics I hosted but did not care for Mr. Fargis's. He prefers large groups, and so you will find that you do not get a lot of one on one attention. There is also a lot of complimenting and just saying good, rather than spending the first half picking you apart and the 2nd half putting you back together and helping any weaknesses. I am nto sure about you, but if I am going to spend that amount of money, I like to have some "homework" and new excercises to work on. Joe likes groups of 6+ whereas the other clinicians I worked with like 3-4. Personally, I would save your money and audit. Just my opinion.

[gg4918]

General consensus is that he's good one on one or in semi privates though?? I'm going down to WEF and my trainer has arranged for my BFF and I to train with him for 3 weeks since he can't make it.

[BAC]

General consensus is that he's good one on one or in semi privates though?? I'm going down to WEF and my trainer has arranged for my BFF and I to train with him for 3 weeks since he can't make it.

It sounds like a great opportunity. There is no comparison between a large group lesson and 3 weeks of private/semi private lessons, be sure and post your experiences for us.

[jse]

There is also a lot of complimenting and just saying good, rather than spending the first half picking you apart and the 2nd half putting you back together and helping any weaknesses. I am nto sure about you, but if I am going to spend that amount of money, I like to have some "homework" and new excercises to work on. Joe likes groups of 6+ whereas the other clinicians I worked with like 3-4. Personally, I would save your money and audit. Just my opinion.

lol we always joke around when my husband is giving lessons, he'll say "good!! " "there!!" we love joe but clinic wise i personally have not heard the greatest of things hence why i said either audit, or save your money.

[BAC]

Joe likes groups of 6+ whereas the other clinicians I worked with like 3-4. Personally, I would save your money and audit. Just my opinion.

A good friend is a clinician, he limits his groups to 3-4 max because he feels he can't give enough personal attention in anything larger. He probably makes a lot less money than JF but his people are happy and he gets LOTS of repeat business.

[Ritaroo]

I can assure you that my riding is not anywhere near good enough to warrant a lack of criticism from someone at the BNT level.

Clinics are about building skills, often from a more accomplished/proficient/higher profile instructor than you might routinely have access to. It is about getting a second, very experienced set of eyes on your riding and learning new ways to approach your weaknesses so that they can be more effectively addressed.

While you should not expect the kind of focused attention from the instructor in a clinic setting that you would in a private lesson, there is no point in paying hundreds of dollars to hear broad generalities that you could obtain just as easily by auditing for $40 or $50.

Most BNTs seem to offer a LOT more detailed and individual instruction than this particular clinician. Frank Madden, Anne Kursinski, Geoff Teall, GM, etc all provide TONS of very specific direction in their clinics, and charge about the same. They are a better value, IMO. YMMV



Same experience here! I was excited to participate, but I can honestly say I should have just saved my money.

[gg4918]

It sounds like a great opportunity. There is no comparison between a large group lesson and 3 weeks of private/semi private lessons, be sure and post your experiences for us.

You can count on it! It's my 1st time at WEF and my 1st time doing the BIG jumpers seriously and I really cant think of a better way to spend it!

[goodmorning]

Just a big old bump -- thinking of going to this clinic, at mentioned farm...:) Did the OP go?

[duster]

Another bump- would it be worth taking a young fancy hunter to one of his clinics, or would I be over faced? The clinic is very reasonably priced.

[dogbluehorse]

I love Joe Fargis clinics. I like the simplicity and straightforward approach, emphasis on flatwork. I took my extremely well schooled TB (I think ~18 or maybe even 19 at the time?) as well as a total greenie, and both horses were going fabulously much better after the two days. I have a new horse now and am looking forward to hearing his opinion. He doesn't bombard you with a lot of stuff, but rather a few useful nuggets that stick with you (at least stick with me) for a long time. If it is the Far Meadow one you're talking about, see you there!

[NeedsAdvil]

I guess I will be the lone voice of dissent here.

I rode with Joe @ Far Meadow in a clinic the year before last. I was honestly somewhat disappointed.

Joe is a wonderful horseman, of course, and a genius when it comes to riding. I very much like his emphasis on quiet, calm schooling and the way he makes the exercises progressive and builds the horse's confidence.

That said, I would much rather spend that kind of money on private lessons, since my experience with his clinics is that everyone does drill team style flatwork (think follow the leader around the ring doing serpentines, etc.) and then you jump through a grid. Only the most advanced riders (two pros and a very advanced amateur jumper rider) did any individual fences or course work. Every other group below 4' did the same group flat and grid routine.

There was *very* little individual attention or instruction. I have done tons of clinics and I don't expect a private lesson when I am riding in a group, but for $425, I sure as heck want more than, "Be straight. Ok, good... Next!"

It's not that I disagreed with any of the information presented, just that it was all very general and I feel I could have gotten the same information by auditing the sessions for a whole lot less $$. I got no specific individual feedback or instruction at all.

Just my $.02

I could not agree more. Joe is great, a wonderful guy, but I think it depends on your level. If you are adept at riding straight, and have a horse who is on the aids, you aren't going to get much out of the clinic. Unless you are in the most advanced group. I rode two different horses in a two day clinic, and while I came away feeling good, it was because I was able to successfully do all that was asked of me and not because I was pushed or had any major breakthroughs. For the money, I would have gotten more out of taking a few privates with him.

[duster]

Thank you for the insight. Our flat work is great, and we have all of the jumping basics down, pace and staightness. Sounds like I might be better off taking a few lessons with the fantastic pros I have in my area rather than spend the money on one clinic. I guess my dreams of riding in front of an Olympian will have to wait.

[TSWJB]

IT IS A CLINIC. do not expect personal attention.......... and it is a compliment if you don't need it! a clinic is intended for a broad overview.

then why is it $425.00 to just get barely any attention?
i just dont get clinics. they are so expensive and then they have groups of 5 to 8 riders and your not expected to get personal attention? i would rather spend my money on private lesssons with top pros and pay much less. believe me if you call them, alot of BNT''s will give you a lesson.

[horserule1]

I did one of his clinics a few years ago and what a waste of money!!!!
I was in a group of 6--3 to 3'6" jumpers--two of us knew each other and have very sucessful winning jumpers--the others were complete beginners in my opinion and i couldnt figure out why we were grouped that way. He refused to let me warm my horse up before the start time despite the fact that i told him very politely that he needed a lot of warm up time and INSISTED that i ride with a stick despite the fact that i told him my horse had been abused by former rider with whip and would not be at best with me riding with one. We did the simplest flat work and grid and actually worked on picking up diaganols at the trot between two poles on ground. HUH???? I had to ask after the session for any input and he told me he liked my leg position and my horse was a good jumper--no input on what to work on or anything else. My coach watched and agreed with me that it was a big waste of time.
I have done literally dozens of clinics over the years with many clinicians--some famous, some not and this was by far the worst i have ever done. I have always got some input out of any clinic i have ever done but NOT that one!

[ivy62]

i have never been to one of his clinics before, is it wirth the ride and dollars to audit?

[supershorty628]

i have never been to one of his clinics before, is it wirth the ride and dollars to audit?

You'll get a whole variety of answers! I say yes (having ridden in 2 clinics with Joe).

[dogbluehorse]

Okie Dokie, so who gets to travel down to VA to take private lessons with Joe? Excellent idea if that is feasible for you, and probably better than a clinic, especially if you can do that regularly. If you live in the wilds of MA, there aren't that many truly excellent jumper trainers to take lessons from on a regular basis....
Re person who says their horse is super straight and well schooled on flat, my horse is super straight and best schooled horse ever on flat (according to GM, so I guess that's true), but Joe's flatwork still did both of us a lot of good.
I like the old fashioned, flatwork-intensive, clinics. I don't love flat work, I prefer jumping, but I love when my horses are jumping great because of excellent flat work. So personally I think Joe has a lot to offer. I have seriously considered driving 12hrs to VA to take some lessons, but realistically, going to a clinic in CT, 3hrs away, seems like a much more feasible option (or even NY, 6hrs away, which I have done, call me nuts).
Re Joe's fees, he charges a flat rate per day, so it is up to the organizer of the clinic to decide how many horses per session and therefore how much money they make. Joe is highly ethical and straightforward. One clinic I went to with him, he did 4 sessions per day, for two days, and since the clinic was for charity, donated his entire fee to the charity. So please don't be dissing him re having large groups to make money. I think many people want to sign up, so the clinic organizers are torn, and land up agreeing to have more people than ideal per group. Needless to say Joe handles this admirably.
In case you didn't figure it out yet, I am a Joe fan!