Three Feeding Questions: Mares and Oats, Oil and Vitamin Absorption, Salt Blocks

[costco_muffins]

A recent discussion in the barn has me investigating three subjects in feeding a little further. I would love any input that anyone might have on these subjects, particularly if you could reference a study or Equine Nutritionist discussing these topics. So far, I am having trouble finding the information that I am looking for. I would love to continue this discussion with my barn mates further, but want to be informed and not just spouting opinions without substance.

Three subjects of discussion:

#1: Mares have adverse reactions to oats (crimped, rolled or whole) and can become "bitchy" when oats are fed as a normal part of a balanced diet. Geldings do not show the same tendencies.

#2: Adding a vegetable oil to a horse's diet hinders vitamin and mineral absorption in the hind gut.

#3: Minerals should be fed as loose free choice granules instead of as salt blocks. The salt in a salt block (neither iodized salt nor trace mineral) is not accessible to a horse as horses do not have the hooks on their tongue to properly glean the minerals needed. Instead, the block will wear down on the tongue and will be unpleasant for the horse.

Again, these are not necessarily my opinions, just ones that I would like to be able to discuss intelligently.

Thanks!

[ponyjumper4]

#1 is just ridiculous and in no way, shape or form accurate. I have mostly mares and they get oats all the time. Some of your friends mares may just be intolerant of high carbs, which oats are high in. That could effect their behavior

#2 I can't really comment on.

#3 Horses need acces to salt blocks and they need access to minerals, either loosely or as a supplement. The trace mineral salt blocks is not going to give them what they need. I view the trace mineral blocks like gatorade--it can replace some of the electrolytes lost.

[merrygoround]

#1, Nonsense
# 2 They are confusing mineral oil and vegetable oil.
#3 Plain salt blocks are just that, plain salt blocks. Horse do fine with them for salt
the red mineral blocks are worthless as equinesupplements, altho the horses can lick them just fine. So if you are feeding plain oats, loose minerals, designed for horses, are the best.

[pintopiaffe]

#1, better not tell my mares that! Been feeding whole oats for oh, going on 34 years now. To broodies, babies, stallions, geldings... No one's ever gotten hot or stupid on them unless they were getting too many calories PERIOD. Switched away for a time when I first had my own farm, and switched back for better coats, feet, etc. ;)

#2 HUGE EXCESSIVE amounts of oil, and mineral oil can block some absorption. Some oils actually ADD vitamins and nutrients (Rice Bran, Wheat Germ, Fish Oil for example)

#3 Mineral SALT blocks are no good for horses. Nor is the red mineral salt loose mix those blocks are made from. Not enough minerals to make a difference. Provide plain salt, in whichever form you want (I like the plain, loose 'nuggets' you get for water softener at about $4 for 50lbs. I put out a cup or two at a time.) and provide proper minerals for your forage and feed.

[deltawave]

1. Way too much of a "blanket statement" for me. Some mares may not do well with oats, sure. But all mares? Highly unlikely.

2. Normal amounts of oil should not be a problem in any way, shape or form.

3. Rubbish, as far as "hooks on the tongue" and "gleaning" minerals. Whether or not they make use of the blocks or not is a matter of individual preference, and if a horse doesn't seem to be using it, loose minerals are certainly a reasonable alternative. Most "mineral blocks" are 99% salt with precious little "other", so if a horse needs more than a trace amount, sure, add it to the diet separately.

[Melyni]

I'd recommend the above book, easy to read and scientific.

AS for the the questions.

#1: Mares have adverse reactions to oats (crimped, rolled or whole) and can become "bitchy" when oats are fed as a normal part of a balanced diet. Geldings do not show the same tendencies.

In a word, Nope. Some horses irregardless of gender can have adverse reactions to a feed. Others will do fine on the same feed. not a gender specific reaction.

#2: Adding a vegetable oil to a horse's diet hinders vitamin and mineral absorption in the hind gut.

Oil added to the ration won't make it to the hind gut it is absorbed in the small intestine. If it does mineral absorption won't be the only thing that the horse will have problems with and will be pretty minor relative to the mess that will result. You wanna see loose stools, add fat to the hind gut!!


#3: Minerals should be fed as loose free choice granules instead of as salt blocks. The salt in a salt block (neither iodized salt nor trace mineral) is not accessible to a horse as horses do not have the hooks on their tongue to properly glean the minerals needed. Instead, the block will wear down on the tongue and will be unpleasant for the horse.

Depends on the block and on the loose minerals. and how much mineral there is relative to the salt. Horses generally prefer the loose salt as they don't always want to lick a block, but they will lick one happily if it is available.

Hope this clarifies.
Read the book it will clear up a lot of misconceptions.
MW

[gabz]

re: Oil blocking minerals/ vitamins. HIGH amounts of veg oil can reduce the absorption of some vitamins. For instance veggie oil blocks Vit E.

Oil (fat) will slow the absorption of sugars when fed in sufficient amounts.

Mineral blocks are typically 93 - 97% salt (check the label) In my mind - pretty useless form of getting trace minerals into a horse.
If a horse will eat loose minerals fed free choice that's Great. Not all do. If the horse is deficient in its diet, then adding some to the diet is the best way to use them.
Salt should be added to the diet. Horses need salt. Salt blocks are not a very good way to add salt to the diet. Horses cannot lick enough to get what they need.
Many pelleted / processed feeds add salt. Not all do.

In addition to Storey's Guide - there is also "Beyond The Hay Days".. very good. easily understandable.

[deltawave]

Horses cannot lick enough to get what they need.

My 3 equines go through 3 50-pound blocks a year, plus occasional free choice minerals, plus blocks in their stalls. I did the math once and it works out to about 2 ounces/day/horse just from the big blocks. They don't just lick, they sometimes CHOMP. :)

[costco_muffins]

You guys make me happy :)

I know that these ideas tend on the wacky side, I just want to have a coherent and scientific discussion about nutrition with this particular person and these three issues I felt inadequately prepared to deal with.

For #1, I believe that absolutely some mares can do poorly, but so can some horses. Not every one, not every time.

For #2, I think of vegetable oil as a great way to add calories to a diet without fillers.

For #3, I think that horses might have their own preferences, but that a loose iodized salt is one of the best ways for a horse to get the salt they need. Mineral blocks do not have adequate amounts of the trace elements in them to be worthy.

Does this sound correct? Are there any studies that you can reference that discuss these or similar issues? The person that I am discussing this with is referencing what her alternative (I use that broadly) horse care professionals (also used lightly) are telling her. This would not be of a great concern to me but that I enjoy an intelligent conversation, learning more, and seeing healthy horses.

[jumpingf00l]

I can't speak to the other two, but I've found that oil (presumably because it is processed) does indeed slow down the metabolism of minerals and thus isn't good for horses that may be sensitive to toxicity.

I had been feeding my mare 1 cup of corn oil a day to buffer the effects of 2 grams of bute daily. Eventually, the toxic effect of having everything build up in her system (since it wasn't all metabolized) caught up to her, and we began having hoof abscess after hoof abscess (4 in the span of a year). We've pulled her off of the oil and are in the process of weaning her off bute entirely (and looking for viable bute alternative) at the behest of an equine nutritionist, and are confident that the abscess issues will be resolved as a result.

The problem is that there isn't a lot of formal scientific research concerning this issue. Believe me, I've been researching the heck out of this. That does not mean, however, that the anecdotal "research" has no merit. I try to keep an open mind. Mineral oil is definitely NOT metabolized, hence it is used in cases of colic, but the assertion that processed oils (soy, corn, etc) may indeed slow down the absorption of minerals enough to cause toxicity in sensitive horses makes sense to me.

[HiddenStars826]

A fe years ago, we switched our mares (5 of them) from a pelleted grain to oats/barley mix. None of them had any attitude changes for the worse- if anything, they may have gotten perkier...Except the pony, who was then getting less- she was just mad because she got a grain cut.
But seriously, no attitude changes.

I've heard that if you feed oils it can mess with absorbtion, but you need to feed a LOT of oil for that to even happen I'm sure. I've never seen any other evidence of this...

I feed my salt in loose form- I dump a bunch of it in a bucket and let him access it free choice. It is harder for them to keep licking and licking a block, and my horse eventually chewed the block up, so why not just let him get loose stuff. It is cheaper too, since the block would get chewed and then half of it would end up lost in his stall and get thrown in the manure pile! I go through less salt this way!

Yes, salt blocks work better for cows with rough tongues as opposed to horses with smooth tongues. However, the fact that they don't have "hooks" on their tongues has nothing to do with the horse getting the salt/minerals from the block. It might take them longer to lick through it, but the horse will get exactly the same thing from one block as a cow will from the same block, hooked tongue or no. The salt from a block is accessible to horses, it is just a bit harder for them since they need to spend some time licking at the block. I've never heard that the block will wear down the tongue, but now that I think about it, Sour Patch Kids wear out my tongue if I eat too many...

I think I know where these arguments are coming from...

[JB]

#1: Mares have adverse reactions to oats (crimped, rolled or whole) and can become "bitchy" when oats are fed as a normal part of a balanced diet. Geldings do not show the same tendencies.
Easy - mare is intolerant of the level of starches on the oats, gelding is not. Or, the mare has an allergy to oats, gelding does not. No big mystery here :0

#2: Adding a vegetable oil to a horse's diet hinders vitamin and mineral absorption in the hind gut.
In small amounts, not a problem. In larger amounts - larger amounts of ANY fat - yes. Know that some vitamins NEED some amount of fat to be usable - they are fat-soluble vitamins. Others are hindered in uptake by too much fat.

#3: Minerals should be fed as loose free choice granules instead of as salt blocks. The salt in a salt block (neither iodized salt nor trace mineral) is not accessible to a horse as horses do not have the hooks on their tongue to properly glean the minerals needed. Instead, the block will wear down on the tongue and will be unpleasant for the horse.
IME and IMHO, true. Horses have smooth tongues, so cannot wear away a block like a cow's rough tongue can. Horses then either don't get enough, or they end up biting off chunks and getting too much.