Help!! What could possibly be going on with this mare?

[sabby]

A little background....

The mare is 8 years old and green. I have been riding her 2 to 3 days a week for about 5 months now and another girl hacks her around 2 times a week. I am a First Level dressage rider. She is turned out around 8 hours during the day. She gets fed a 12% pelleted feed and coastal hay. The first ingredient in the feed is alfalfa. She gets fed around 7:30 in the morning and between 3:30 and 4:00 in the afternoon. I usually ride her around 5:00 pm.

Here is the clicker, if I ride her in the middle of the afternoon, say around 1:00, she is fine. She listens, doesn't spook at everything and is very calm and relaxed. But lately when I have been riding her around 5:00 pm, she is like riding a stick of dynamite!! I lunge her and she runs around like she is on fire. Spooking, trying to run off, major explosive behavior. I get on her and it takes forever for her to relax. I thought it could be ulcers, so her owner has had her on Ulcer Gard for a week now. We did not have her scoped. She does not have all the signs of ulcers, just the spooking and shying with some girthyness.

My question is...What could be going on with her that she is fabulous if I ride her during the day and an explosive nut in the evening? I never used to lunge her but now, if I don't, it could possibly turn into a rodeo. If I lunge her before I ride during the day, she's great on the lunge and during my ride. Any ideas would be appreciated:).

[BornToRide]

Horses tend to rest during the middle of the day, as this seems to have been the safest time to do so, when predators are less active.

Perhaps she's quieter during this time because her energy levels are naturally more down. Or she could be reacting to just having eaten and has some extra energy when being worked at 5 PM.

I suggest taking the pellets away for 2 - 3 weeks to see what you get. What brand is it anyway? It may have some other ingredients she may react to also.

A horse that overreacted like this in the wild, because there's a change around every corner would exert too much energy which is not desirable.

[CoolMeadows]

Oh... could be so many things!

Reaction to a spike caused by the feed.

Reaction to dwindling light and elongating shadows setting off "I'm a prey animal" bells or an eyesight issue.

Coming into first heat of the year as days get longer.

Reaction to drop in temp between mid day and early evening (although you're in TX so maybe not).

Reaction to being away from the barn. Are the other horses out during the day where she can see them from the ring but in the barn after dinner?

Or maybe she's just a silly mare who got used to a pattern of work and is so much a creature of habit that the change in schedule has made her uneasy.

When's the last time you rode her mid-day?

[Simkie]

My first thought was ulcers, but it sounds like you've got that covered. If she has a bad case, though, it can take several days for omeprazole to make a change. Auventera2 (I think that's how it's spelled) has written about her mare, and how it took quite some time on the full gastrogard dose to see a change. Something else to try wrt to ulcer would be to syringe a full dose of UGard (or any other product that coats the stomach) directly before your ride and see if that helps.

Other thoughts--what's going on at the barn in the evening versus during the day? How many other people are riding during both times? How many other people are out at the barn? Are YOU more hurried/distracted/keyed up/rushed in the evening?

I'd scale way back and JUST work on getting her relaxed in the evenings. Work on the ground until she's soft and responsive, then work under saddle until she's soft and responsive. I'd say you've got at least a few days of walk only work ;)

[GettingBack]

I've known some in the past who freak out if it's around feeding time. They just DO NOT want to work - they are too worried that they'll miss dinner.

Otherwise there are some good suggestions here regarding the light etc. Does the indoor cast more shadows etc at night?

[sabby]

Wow! Thanks for all of the responses. The last time I rode her during the day was this past Saturday. The weather was beautiful and she was great. I thought okay, maybe she DOES have ulcers and the Ulcer Gard has kicked in. Then yesterday evening....BING, BAM, BOOM. It got so bad on the lunge that I unsaddled her, unbridled her and free lunged her. I then put the saddle back on and she was good. She was still looky and acted like she had never seen a truck before but for the most part good. When she does all this looky loo stuff, I try to just ignore it. It's so odd because none of this occurs during the day. I usually ride her on Saturdays during the day. I ride in the evenings during the week.

This is a low key barn with anywhere between 1 or 2 people riding at the same time. She is turned out next to other horses and there are horses all around her when we ride. I don't know the name of the feed as it is a local feed. I don't think it is the weather because there is not that much of a change. How long are mares in heat because this has been going on quite a while...(sigh).

[jumperpony]

Mine does this also...

With my mare it happens only at night on days when she is the only horse in the ring. I'm pretty sure it's because before she came to me she learned that spooking/misbehaving=getting put away so she could eat. During the day there are other horses out and about, either in the indoor or outdoor rings. But in the evening I'm usually the only person riding on the property. On the off chance that another horse is in the ring at night, she's just fine.

Are there others riding when you ride in the evening, or is she being "singled out":lol: Mine is slowly learning that spooking actually causes her to be away from her dinner longer now, so it's getting better.

[sabby]

By the time I ride her, she and all of the others have been fed for the evening. I will grab a lable off of the feed bag and post its ingredients. I have a clinic coming up in March and may or may not take her depending on if I can get her in "daytime mode" all the time.

[Go Fish]

I've known some in the past who freak out if it's around feeding time. They just DO NOT want to work - they are too worried that they'll miss dinner.

Yep...had a mare that was HORRIBLE to ride at feeding time and heaven help you if you took her away from her dinner. :lol:

[bludejavu]

It really sounds like she may have a sugar spike which usually occurs between 30 minutes and an hour after eating. You could ask the barn management to withhold her grain and let you give it to her after working with her. It would really help if you knew what she was eating and what the molasses/NSC content was, but try to see if they will let you give her the grain AFTER you ride and see if it makes a difference.

[jetsmom]

I've known several horses (of which Jet is one) that are naughty in the afternoon or spookier, more "up" than they are in the morning/mid day. Seems to be fairly common. Oddly, if I am at a show and have been showing earlier, then have to ride in the afternoon, there's no problem.

[sabby]

Thanks again for all of the replies...

Bluedejavu, I was thinking that same thing. Could it be possible that she is having a sugar or carb spike because she has eaten about an hour before I ride her? However, if I ride her in the middle of the day, she has long since eaten her morning ration so therefore no spike and no whacked out behavior? Would giving her a little grain before I rode her do the same thing? I guess I don't want to have to deal with the "I want to eat now" attitude. I will pull the lable and post the ingredients of her feed and you guys with food knowledge can help me. Perhaps I could take her off of that brand and put her on something else that won't cause a spike. Do any of you have any recommendations? I don't own this mare and I don't want to give up on her because she has so much potential!!!

[Melyni]

to a low starch one and or one without alfalfa. It might be the legume protein causing this. I'd experiment a bit with her diet and see if you can change the behavior.
ALso increase the Mg in her evening feed see if that helps
MW

[sabby]

I forgot too that I wish I could ride her all the time in the mid-day but no can do so I would like to fix this "evening" behavior if possible.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=sabby;3855251]A little background....

The mare is 8 years old and green. I have been riding her 2 to 3 days a week for about 5 months now and another girl hacks her around 2 times a week. I am a First Level dressage rider. She is turned out around 8 hours during the day. She gets fed a 12% pelleted feed and coastal hay. The first ingredient in the feed is alfalfa. She gets fed around 7:30 in the morning and between 3:30 and 4:00 in the afternoon. I usually ride her around 5:00 pm.

Here is the clicker, if I ride her in the middle of the afternoon, say around 1:00, she is fine. She listens, doesn't spook at everything and is very calm and relaxed. But lately when I have been riding her around 5:00 pm, she is like riding a stick of dynamite!! I lunge her and she runs around like she is on fire. Spooking, trying to run off, major explosive behavior. I get on her and it takes forever for her to relax. I thought it could be ulcers, so her owner has had her on Ulcer Gard for a week now. We did not have her scoped. She does not have all the signs of ulcers, just the spooking and shying with some girthyness.

check the times shes fed in the afternoon you might be riding to soon after her dinner

[ThrushBuster]

I'm thinking the lack of daylight is the problem here, she may be seeing shadows she's not use to.:cool:

[shawneeAcres]

I have so many horses that come to my barn, as we do a good bit of marketing, and often will find one that has a "preferred" time to be ridden. Had a mare this past summer that mornings she was an ANGEL, afternoons she was a nutcase! Have had several that worked good in afternoon but not mornings. I NEVER like to ride around feeding time, just cannot get the horses mind on the work. If I get one not wanting to work, I do a good bit of groundwork with them, not traditional lunging, but nore of NH approach, having them working on a shorter line, asking them to "turnback" frequently (i.e. turn in tworads me, rocking back on haulches, in response to the line and whip chaging hands), halting, backing, giving head, moving off the leg. Then get on and do the same thing, ask them to give head laterally, move haunches over, etc. It seems to clam the mind and get them more focused. Have one mare now that simply CANNOT calm down until I do this, then she gets quiet and focused.

[sabby]

She had been getting 2 large plastic scoops of this twice a day. Sorry I can't be more accurate on the amount, but it's a lot.


Crude Protein 12%
Lysine .60%
Methionine .28%
Crude Fat 4.50%
Crude Fiber (Max) 9.00%
Calcium (Min) .50%
Calcium (Max) 1.00%
Phosphorus .60%
Copper 55 PPM
Selenium .30 PPM
Zinc 220 PPM
Vitamin A 6000IU/lb
Vitamin D 1000IU/lb
Vitamin E 70IU/lb
Biotin .30MG/lb

The first ingredients on the statement are: Processed grain by products, dehydrated alfalfa meal, grain products, etc.

Here's the deal...I spoke to her owner and she said that she would start feeding the mare beet pulp (it has molasses in it) and rice bran. This was to occur last week starting on Thursday Feb 5. Okay I ride the mare on Saturday (Feb 7) during the day and she was great. I ride her again on Monday (Feb 9) during the evening (5 ish) and she was great. So much so that I didn't even have to lunge her. So I'm thinking, "Wow could I already be seeing a difference?". I ride her today during the day. She is okay but spooky again. Not really that relaxed. I looked in her feed bucket when I put her away and she has her regular grain in it!! I guess my question is, if this type of feed is her problem, would I see such a dramatic difference in a few days time and would going back to the old grain send her back to her previous behavior in such a short time?

Thanks for reading, I know it's long....

[pintopiaffe]

If the alfalfa is the culprit, than yes, it can cause the issue as quickly, and go away as quickly as that.

My stallion is intensely reactive to alfalfa. He is normally the best mannered horse on the property: polite to a fault, would sooner fall over than step on a human, pays attention, calm, just a real puppy dog. Give him the merest whiff of alfalfa and his poor leetle brains leak out his leetle curly ears. :no: He spooks, he shies, he leaps on top of me and barges through the halter. He acts as if he's uncomfortable in his skin.

Now, for him, one meal to the next isn't going to change as you're experiencing (breakfast digested= afternoon ride, post supper= evening ride) He gets 'falf, he gets stupid. It's out of his system in 48 hrs or so. But if he gets it for breakfast, he's going to be stupid at night. It's like horsey crack for him, and it drives him out of his ever loving mind. (he also will seek it--if he's gotten a little, he'll break through fences etc. to get to more. If he's off it entirely, he's super respectful of fences. I guess the crack analogy is good--he exhibits criminal behaviour! :lol: )

For whatever that is worth... if the beep n' rice bran is working--keep it up. (which leads me to a second, entirely different thought--I wonder if she's tying up a little post supper??? ??? Again--difference in the low starch feed would be dramatic and immediate... )

[sabby]

I had never heard of an alfalfa "reaction" before. There is a horse at another barn I ride at who also cannot have alfalfa because he breaks out in hives. I am thinking and keeping my fingers crossed that the caretaker forgot that she was supposed to get the BP/RB as there are no feeding signs on any of the stalls. I am so hoping that alfalfa is the culprit because that's easy to fix. She was so good on Monday evening that I was just elated because evenings after she had finished her feed was when I was having the most trouble with her. Okay, back to square one. Thank you guys again for reading!!