Do you tell people you are going Foxhunting?

[BEARCAT]

For some reason, at this point I find it more advisable to keep it quiet...
I am going to a Hoof Care clinic on Sat, and bringing my horse down since I will be Foxhunting at a nearby location.
I don't know those people and instead of blurting out that I was going foxhunting the next day, I said I was "going on a ride" -which is true also...
I guess I did not want to be judged before I got there, since I don't know them.
The barn where the clinic is at holds frequent Pepperonis clinics if you catch my drift, and I am sure some of them would be appalled at chasing a poor little fox (well, it's coyotes up here, but they would think foxes...)
I know it might be a case a the pot calling the kettle black, since I am pre-judging them also...

PS: When I get there, I will have no qualms disclosing it, I just did not want my horse turned away...

[Jaegermonster]

I most certainly do. And you would be surprised at the number of people who want to know more about it, what we do, why, how it happens and so on. And then lots of them want to know if and how they can come out to watch.
I get a few raised eyebrows and funny looks, but most of the people that I would be speaking to where what I do with my horses would come up know that I am the last person that would be involved in anything that would cause unnecessary distress to an animal.
So think in a positive way, be proud of what you do and use the openings you may get as an opportunity to be an ambassador for and to educate others about our sport.

I have to say this: if I were ashamed of what I am doing or felt as though I had to hide it from others I sure wouldn't be doing it.

[Thomas_1]

Yes I do.

[BEARCAT]

Well, it doesn't so much have to do with being ashamed, it's more like it's not necessarily the first thing I want to blurt out to total strangers...

I have actually been pretty excited to tell friends and relatives that I went on Sunday riding my 5 year old for his first time out, bla, bla, bla... I've only gone twice in 2 years, and had a lot of fun both times, even though it was only about 18 degrees this time - Brrrr!

[Little Valkyrie]

Yep, I do. Even sometimes to non-horsey people (as long as I'm reasonably sure they're not going to eat me first thing) because I figure the more people learn that we are not hoity-toity snobs on our high horses and just a bunch of regular people who love horses having a fun time the less of a stigma it will have. I find most people are pretty receptive to it as long as I approach it in the right way. After all, this is my passion and I am open to what other people do, so I can only accept the same from others.

[ab06]

Absolutely! I didn't start out doing it, but it was so well-received by everyone I've ever talked to about it, I just stopped being worried. Heck, I even put it on my Facebook status from time to time. Everyone always wants to know if I carry a gun :lol:

[IrishRydr]

Everyone who knows me knows about my horse and foxhunting. I find that people are very curious and interested in what we do. I assure them that we do not torture animals, and that puts people at ease, as that is most often a question of non-horsey people. I love what I do and, as much as I can, want to be an ambassador for the sport. There is nothing that can compare to my animals and my hunting. It's a part of who I am.

[kraslad]

While it helps that I live in an area that has several active hunts, I have the chance to travel frequently both domestically and abroad and often when I am going abroad, I hunt. That being said, I make no bones about it and if someone challenges me on it, I often give them the actual facts with regard to how many foxes we haven't seen or caught - which is a lot!

To add to this, I also am pretty no nonsense with regard to why I eat meat and why I wear leather, etc. I truly appreciate the perspective that others have and are entitled too. I don't try to make converts of them and I try to exercise patience and understanding and expect the same of them.

I leave it to you to gauge your audience and phrase your exploits accordingly - snicker. I'll think you'll find however, that if you are talking to folks that know you, they'll appreciate your perspective and preferences and you may even educate them in the process (say it isn't so!).

Enjoy!

[Beverley]

Yes, absolutely. In a way, I'm a bit disappointed that in 37 years I haven't had a negative reaction yet.:cool: But mostly I end up answering lots of questions, such as, 'where do you get the fox' (people not knowing that such creatures still thrive in the wild) and most people say, 'sounds like fun.'

Mind you, I can be a bit contrary- I'd wear my mink coat if I knew there was a PETA gathering in the neighborhood, and just dare them to ruin it and have to buy me a whole new set of minks.

[IrishRydr]

Beverley, if someone from PETA trashed your minks, I doubt you'd ever see a penny in compensation. There ARE strong feelings against what we do, and rubbing it in the wrong people's faces is going to land us in the situation England finds itself in.

[rivenoak]

I do mention it. I'm proud of it, like talking about it, and have only had one conversation that didn't end up positive.

It was with a DMV employee. My license plate tag needed renewing & I had to call, got a phone rep who asked about my plate (FOXHUNT) & then he spewed a bunch of negative, close-minded stuff as I attempted to educate him as to what it's really all about. I remained as nice as pie, but didn't change his mind any. :(

Yanno, last Sun, as I was fueling up before the hunt, I was stopped by a man asking for $. I happened to have cash & gave it to him. He then asked about the plate, if Foxhunt was my last name. I explained no, it's what I do, and yes we hunt like that here in the desert, etc, etc. He said he was just a country boy from Alabama originally, grew up hunting bunnies with dawgs, & isn't the sound of hounds just the best, etc, etc!

You just never know who you'll meet or befriend through proclaiming your choice to hunt.

Although, OP, I do understand why perhaps you didn't broadcast it at first. Let them meet you/horse and then if it comes up, discuss.

[ceffyl]

Beverley, if someone from PETA trashed your minks, I doubt you'd ever see a penny in compensation. There ARE strong feelings against what we do, and rubbing it in the wrong people's faces is going to land us in the situation England finds itself in.


:mad::mad::mad: Ahemmmmmmmmmm! ENGLAND!!!! Please remember thatthe ban is not just ENGLAND but the whole of the UK, there is also Wales; Scotland; Northern Ireland.

And yes do talk about foxhunting proudly to people. Don't sweep what ever you do under the carpet. "Rubbing it in the wrong people's faces" had NOTHING at all to do with the hunting ban in the UK. The LACS terrorist bunch are just anti-society full stop, now they have banned hunting with dogs (remember it does not just encompass foxhunting) they are on a mission to ban angling (rod fishing), game bird shooting, horse racing, greyhound racing, in fact anything that PETA tries to do away with LACS follows.

The ban has not stopped the LACS loonies from sabbing hunts, they still draw hounds onto roads and rail tracks, they still steal hounds from kennels - just 18 months ago they stole a young beagle from a hill pack in Wales and left it tied to a fence on a remote hillside to die AND BRAGGED ABOUT IT.

So speak up, SUPPORT FOX HUNTING.

[xeroxchick]

Beverley, if someone from PETA trashed your minks, I doubt you'd ever see a penny in compensation. There ARE strong feelings against what we do, and rubbing it in the wrong people's faces is going to land us in the situation England finds itself in.

I disagree. We are Americans. Our hunting culture is grass roots, not hoity-toity. Wear your fur like a mountain man! Keep it out there, don't meekly hide from the pc police.

[Ray]

Do I tell people - you bet. We are a drag hunt (live hunt in suburban MetroWest MA, not that easy!!), so we dont get the "poor fox" thing, although, I do engage people whenever possible to educate/defend our live hunting (very fortunate!) fox-hunters in the US and abroad. One reason that I try to spread the word is to promote land conservation. Many horse people that might not hunt [yet ? :)] DO want to ride outside of a ring. In New England, we are losing open space and farmland at an alarming rate.

[danceronice]

I disagree. We are Americans. Our hunting culture is grass roots, not hoity-toity. Wear your fur like a mountain man! Keep it out there, don't meekly hide from the pc police.

Don't kid yourself that it can't happen here. The hoity-toities are now running things and they REALLY hate the "mountain men" type. Educate, but be careful who you piss off.

ETA: Ray, where are you? Concord/Carlisle/Lincoln area? *waves from Waltham* Wow, this did not seem like foxhunt country! But then I'm on the wrong side of 95...what open space?

[ArtilleryHill]

I absolutely do, and, like pretty much everyone else who has posted, I've found it a great way to educate people about it and at least make them think twice about any misapprehensions they might have.

By the way, dancer, a surprising number of "mountain men" also voted for the so-called "hoity-toities" in 2008, so maybe we need to think about the issue from another perspective than just the mountain men v. hoity-toities. Sometimes people are a little of both, especially in hard economic times! In my view, letting people know you're an unabashed foxhunter and willing to talk about it is one of the best ways to start chipping away at people's misconceptions. It won't always change minds, it won't always be pleasant, but sometimes it will. Hiding the sport away from the general public is only going to allow the antis to define it for them. So, whoever you are, whatever your political stripe, tell 'em you're a foxhunter.

[JSwan]

I don't volunteer private/personal information, usually.

But if someone asks, what did I do over the weekend, or what am I doing this weekend, I answer honestly.

It's nothing to be ashamed of and there is no reason to hide the fact that you hunt.

In social situations I usually have to get through the "horse" stuff before getting to the "hunting" stuff. And if I haven't completely bored the listener to tears after waxing poetic about my wunnerful horses, it means I need more Scotch. :lol:

Seriously - you'd be amazed how many people are eager to find out about hunting from a "real" hunter.

Especially if that person bears no resemblance to the stereotypes perpetuated by animal rights groups.

[ArtilleryHill]

Especially if that person bears no resemblance to the stereotypes perpetuated by animal rights groups.


Very, very true.

[wateryglen]

I've experienced discrimination against foxhunting in my work environment. Bad, judgemental people who are also sarcastic about my farm or horses. This has happened enough that I wait & assess my boss & co-workers before revealing that I hunt. Sometimes I never tell.

For example, when taking a day off during the week.....NEVER tell them why. That allows them to judge whether it's a good reason. And if you're mum about it; then they think you're stand off-ish/snobby. They assume all horsepeople are rich and don't really need to work or that foxhunting is for the rich etc. My last supervisor was a horseperson but judgemental about what I do and it bit me in the butt bigtime after I tried to befriend/engage her into horse stuff & conversations. She was small time arab breeder/shower.

I'm a nurse & health care isn't any different than other work places. Lotsa catty women I've worked with sad to say. Too many.....
I agree we're all ambassadors and I'm not ashamed...just cautious. Maybe it's because I believe that foxhunting can be controversial to many non converts. Even here in horse country!

[Beverley]

Beverley, if someone from PETA trashed your minks, I doubt you'd ever see a penny in compensation. There ARE strong feelings against what we do, and rubbing it in the wrong people's faces is going to land us in the situation England finds itself in.

Destruction of property is destruction of property, regardless of the motivation. Not to mention the assault charges. Hubby's a judge, so yeah, I do know my rights, and how to file civil lawsuits, and how to press for criminal charges.:)

I disagree that there are strong feelings against hunting, actually. Such feelings are only among those who subscribe to a radical animal rights agenda. I have friends who are PETA members for their own reasons, who nevertheless acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with hunting, either with guns or with hounds. It is still true, in my opinion, that the overwhelming majority of Americans really has no objection to hunting and really, truly doesn't give it any thought, particularly with our current economic woes keeping other things much higher on the list of prioriites. Our problem has been, and remains, that we are WAY behind the 'education' efforts that PETA and HSUS have been undertaking for years- they get their propaganda into the classroom and into assorted youth groups, and THAT is how they persuade people- with misinformation- that certain activities involving animals are 'cruel.'

One sees the results of what these groups have done all over THESE BOARDS. Plenty of horse owners who declare that they are opposed to hunting, plenty of people who think carriages horses should no longer be used in NYC, plenty of people who want to be vets but don't want to actually have to dissect dead animals to learn what to do, and who also declare that they would 'never' euthanise an animal, they would treat at all costs, plenty of people weighing in that horse racing is cruel, eventing is cruel, slaughter is cruel, and so forth. THAT is way more scary than the few idiots that like to trash fur coats.

The fact that my lifestyle choices include eating meat, wearing fur, and hunting, do not mean that I advocate cruelty to animals. To the contrary, I work hard to improve animal welfare at every turn. I see no need to apologize to anyone, or even tread lightly, when I am doing nothing legally, or morally, or ethically wrong. Basic human courtesy is involved, too- treat people the way you want to be treated. I would certainly disagree with a card carrying PETA member opposed to hunting- but I would still treat him or her with courtesy and respect, and would expect the same in return.

So, when someone asks, 'what are you doing this weekend,' if fox hunting is what I'm doing, then I say so. I'm lucky to be able to engage in such a cool activity, why would I want to act like I was ashamed of it? As noted in my earlier post, I have never had a negative reaction, more often lots of questions.

Finally, the problem in England is that they did nothing until it was too late. So yeah, they should have done something, even if it was just confronting the opposition whenever the opportunity arose. I fear we are too late, as well- but 'rubbing it in people's faces' hasn't been the problem, it's been lack of education about hunting (and rural life) in general.

[Trakehner]

"Finally, the problem in England is that they did nothing until it was too late."

Well, England went down the tubes years ago...totally socialist with all the attitudes that go along with it...major class envy. The jerks in the cities looking down their noses at the "Toffs" in the country. The city people know what's best..think New Yorkers and Los Angeles attitudes about "fly over country". They hated the idea someone did something they themselves didn't consider worthwhile.

I've got a foxhunting vanity plate on my sportscar and my 1 ton truck...I've had people ask me, "do you really foxhunt?" "Uh, yes I do..that's why the tag". I love it when I tell em' I was blooded when I was 8 and explain the culture and the old behaviours in the field.

Way too many Bambi huggers and general over-feminized-wimps who don't understand that red stuff covered in plastic in the grocery store used to be a cow.

[Hotspur]

Yes, I do. My background is a life time of upland, waterfowl, and big game hunting. I put my leg over a sport horse for the first time at age 50.

When asked, I have found very positive responses to my honest answer from friends, hunters, and riders. When my game hunting friends digest the idea of going cross country at speed behind a screaming pack, the usually say something like "How exciting, but you must be nuts!"

[BEARCAT]

Thanks for the different perspectives.
I should have mentioned this was via email, so no chance for an immediate dialogue right then and there.
I have no problems talking about it in person.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Way too many Bambi huggers and general over-feminized-wimps who don't understand that red stuff covered in plastic in the grocery store used to be a cow.

*cough* The deity of the hunt is a goddess, y'know.:winkgrin:

I don't hunt, yet - when I finally get there I imagine I'll be so proud of myself I'll find a way to insert hunting into just about any conversation.:lol:

I did my office in hunting prints - for self-motivation - but I have yet to have anyone ask me if I hunt.:confused: I bet most people don't realize there are foxhunters in this day and age.

[JSwan]

I don't hunt, yet - when I finally get there I imagine I'll be so proud of myself I'll find a way to insert hunting into just about any conversation.:lol:

I did my office in hunting prints - for self-motivation - but I have yet to have anyone ask me if I hunt.:confused: I bet most people don't realize there are foxhunters in this day and age.




You have an open invitation to be my guest if you get up to the Old Dominion - why not Hunt Week next year???? hint hint! :D You can hook up with Hunter's Rest, stay at her place and hunt for an entire week. I'll bring the booze and Advil.

You'll have a blast. Promise.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

You have an open invitation to be my guest if you get up to the Old Dominion - why not Hunt Week next year???? hint hint! :D You can hook up with Hunter's Rest, stay at her place and hunt for an entire week. I'll bring the booze and Advil.

You'll have a blast. Promise.

Next year? Hmmm.:) D'you suppose someone who's balance is poo poo will be ready to hunt by next season? Maybe! :lol: This morning I managed to post nearly a full orbit of the indoor without my feet coming in front of me like a waterskier. So I'm feeling pretty accomplished right now.:winkgrin:

When is Hunt Week next year? I'd sooo love to do it, if I can learn enough not to be a hazard to all and sundry by then.:)

[JSwan]

Next year? Hmmm.:) D'you suppose someone who's balance is poo poo will be ready to hunt by next season? Maybe! :lol: This morning I managed to post nearly a full orbit of the indoor without my feet coming in front of me like a waterskier. So I'm feeling pretty accomplished right now.:winkgrin:

When is Hunt Week next year? I'd sooo love to do it, if I can learn enough not to be a hazard to all and sundry by then.:)


You will see some of the best and worst riding in the hunt field. You'll be fine. Besides - you're in 2 point most of the time anyway. Head up, heels down, knees and elbows in. Don't hit the horse in the back or mouth and don't call the hounds, "dogs". (Unless you're Melvin Poe)

Hunt Week is.... September sometime. And yes, I have no doubt you will be ready. Walk trot canter gallop in 2 point and we'll hilltop and stay in the back.

Then you can go home and replace the motivational artwork with real photos of you foxhunting. It will take two weeks to wipe the grin off your face.

Really.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Hunt Week is.... September sometime. And yes, I have no doubt you will be ready. Walk trot canter gallop in 2 point and we'll hilltop and stay in the back.

Then you can go home and replace the motivational artwork with real photos of you foxhunting. It will take two weeks to wipe the grin off your face.

Really.

:D I believe you. Just thinking about it makes me break into a :D. So, I've got eight months. There's some motivation!:cool:

[SPLAT]

I went two weeks ago as a guest of our local hunt.

I got more interest from everyone, co-workers, friends, family than during any of the 12 yrs I've been riding. " Eventing?" Eyes glaze over.... "Dressage?" - they run for the door -

"Foxhunting?- their eyes get big "really" - When they find out we chased coyotes - they can't stop laughing.

Really.... I can't believe I finally found something horsey that non-horsey people find interesting.

And YES - My horse and I both smiled non-stop for a week after! It was SO SO SO much fun! I just have to figure out how to skip work for the Thursday ride.... hmmm

[IrishRydr]

I hope you all read my first post, in which I stated how much I do talk about my foxhunting and how proud I am to be a part of the sport. I do, however, know there are some situations in which discussing the fact that animals get killed, would NOT go over well with some people. I hunt with one drag hunt and one regular hunt. I think it's a matter of being sensitive to your audience, at least IMO. This is a HUGE part of my life that I want to be able to share with everyone I know, so I intentionally omit some details that could offend some people. There are things about other people's lives that I don't agree with, even though I like them, that I appreciate that they don't constantly bring up, knowing that I don't like it, or am not in to it, etc. I'm not into offending people and I did not intend my comments to be offensive in any way. My way of being a good ambassador for the sport is to provide accurate information without inflamitory information. I do not lie when asked a direct question, but primarily talk about my drag hunt to people who know nothing about hunting. I want good PR for hunting, as well as my friends to continue their interest in my passion.

[ceffyl]

"Finally, the problem in England is that they did nothing until it was too late."

Well, England went down the tubes years ago...totally socialist with all the attitudes that go along with it...major class envy. .


:mad::no::mad: You clearly know nothing at all about "the problems in England". The ban on hunting with dogs affects the WHOLE of the UK, not just England.


How dare you say nothing was done until it was too late. The hunting community had been battling the proposed ban for years and years. Myself and my husband were just two of the 10's of thousands that took part in two Countryside marches in London. And that was not just people from the hunting community but all rural aspects of life, Lords and Ladies marched with farm workers, saddlers, bootmakers, teachers, et al. Thank goodness that now a repeal of the act is on the horizon. The ban has devasted many countryside lives, many not even connected to fox hunting.

England and the rest of the UK is NOT a socialist country. If you call a Labour governemt socialist then you could call the USA that too with the democrats in power. We have a home in the USA as well as the UK, my husband is American. I see far more snobbery and class envy in the US than the UK. I occassionaly hunt with a couple of Virginia packs and the snobbery there is horrendous. Unlike the UK packs where ALL including the butcher, baker and candlesitck maker are welcome to follow be it on foot or mounted.

[Painted Wings]

There are lots of deerhunters and hunters of other sorts. I regularly take off work to hunt and don't hide what I'm off to do.

[CarrieK]

I don't hunt ( :: crosses fingers :: yet...yet...) but I do express my interest.

Had a conversation a couple summers ago with my college friends. It had morphed into a discussion about a friend I've had since 4th grade, who is polar opposite of me on the socio-politial philosophy spectrum. One of my friends--who I've know now for coming on 30 years--asked how in the world can I still be friends with the other one since she's so different? Well, I've known her forever, she has no changed in the least, I know what I'm dealing with--as does she--and we basically don't talk about it. She doesn't feel compelled to change me, I don't feel compelled to change her.

The conversation moved on to folks who are totally different, couples or whatnot. And then out of the blue my friend said she could never be friends with someone who hunts (my friend, BTW, is moving towards veganism) and she listed the reasons.

I said, what's going to become of us when I foxhunt? I have every intention of riding to the hounds at least once before I die. What happens, tho, if things finally go my way and I can become a hunt club member? Gonna throw 30 years down the drain?

She sat there for a moment; I don't think she realized I was interested in foxhunting (she's not horsey in the least). Then she listed her objections to foxhunting, and said it should be outlawed. I listened, told her that American hunting is more of a chase but no matter because a fox could be caught and killed. I told her I had no intention of discussing why her objection should trump my interest, and I told her I wasn't seeking her approval; I know her opinion, she knows mine, and there it's going to stay. But did she really think she couldn't be friends with someone who hunts? Will hunting trump all the rest of our shared interests, out shared history?

Before she could answer our other friend jumped in and made some jokes and diverted the conversation. She never answered my question and we've never discussed it again.


The more interesting discussions I've had recently are at a crochet and knit community. But then, some of those folks who are anti-hunting and think I'm Satan in riding boots also think it's inhumane to shear sheep, so their opinions don't mean much to me.

[IrishRydr]

I hear you, CarrieK. I have a lot of animal-activists as friends as well as environmentional attorneys in Washington DC in my family, who are also protectors of animal rights, etc. I don't hide the fact that I foxhunt at all - It's my passion. But I do tend to focus on the drag hunt I'm involved with rather than the other one. Plus, again, you never know your audience and how a simple interest can potentially ruin a friendship, a business relationship, or whatever. Animals are killed - and some people don't agree that we should do that for sport. That makes us murderers in their eyes. I'd rather not get into the debate with someone who's going to tell me I'm a murderer. I talk about riding through the woods, sipping out of flasks in our fancy clothes on our beautiful horses, following the hounds, and finally cellebrating with a nice brunch at the end. About the fox? I either say there usually aren't any to be found here or we chase a scent.

[LookinSouth]

One reason that I try to spread the word is to promote land conservation. Many horse people that might not hunt [yet ? :)] DO want to ride outside of a ring. In New England, we are losing open space and farmland at an alarming rate.

Ditto. Whenever other horsepeople I meet ask about hunting I usually end up talking about land conservation as well. The two go hand in hand.


"Foxhunting?- their eyes get big "really"
Really.... I can't believe I finally found something horsey that non-horsey people find interesting.


this has been my experience as well. Everyone from trainers, to colleagues to just trail riding friends are very interested to hear about foxhunting. It's fun to educate people and if they ride I usually invite them to try it or at the least attend the clinic in the fall.
The misconceptions are rather humorous, I frequently have to explain that no, you don't have to gallop for 5 hours and jump 4 ft coops, it's not an elite "members only" sport and you don't have to be an exceptionally skilled/brave rider to go out hunting, especially hilltopping . :) I try to squash the myths as much as possible since that's what kept me away from it initially, all the misinformation.

[wateryglen]

I'm up front with family/friends & my social circle of course. Sometimes you can't shut me up! It's the "workplace" where I'd experienced non-approval with my hunting and horsie habits. I'm just cautious that's all. So far this healthy caution has served me well.
I agree with previous posters and use the same upbeat/positive emphasis when talking about it; can't curb my enthusiasm. It's just as I get older; I guess I'm getting more careful or skeptical about peoples motives about inquiries about my habits. Professional/workplace gossip can be a killer!! :yes:
C'est la vie!! ;)

[Beverley]

Ceffyl-

I dare say that nothing was done in the UK until it was too late because that is exactly what all of my UK foxhunting friends tell me.

Those two marches in London were great, but too late.

That's not a condemnation of the UK foxhunting community, just a political fact of life. It should serve as an illustration of how it can happen to anyone. Because foxhunting (and attention all horse owners, fill in the blank here with your favorite activity, dressage, eventing, reining, driving, etc) is NOT an inherently cruel activity, those who have been doing it all their lives think to themselves- when a few agitators start decrying the sport- oh, reasonable people will NEVER listen to those nuts, it is so clear to me that the sport is great, and humane, surely reasonable people will be on my side. But then, those few agitators hook up with some politicos with radical agendas, introduce some legislation, and persuade the majority of the legislative body that in supporting the legislation they are voting 'for' kindness to animals. What's not to like about such a position- never bother to consider the fine print. And in parallel with that, what Nixon called the 'silent majority'- in this case, the vast majority of 'reasonable people' who never give hunting a thought one way or another- well, it's just not on their radar screen, so they don't care whether the activity is banned or not.

So- political fact of life- in the US, horse owners are .6% of the population, and foxhunters are a fraction of that fraction of a percentage. We're minorities. If you don't like to talk about your sport because you wish to avoid confrontation- well, okay, sometimes that is a prudent and sensible approach. If you don't like to talk about your sport because you are ashamed, or 'people wouldn't understand' - well, I say you are copping out on representing the sport as the wonderful, and humane, activity that it is- even when the quarry gets killed by the pack. The woefully inaccurate image of foxhunters- the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible, the 'rich toffs' - gets perpetuated unless the general public sees that you, a foxhunter, are a regular guy or gal just like they are.

I'm editing to add a thought that just occurred to me. Not too long ago, an ABC news staffer contacted me looking for some foxhunting info. I gave her what I had and put her in touch with other foxhunters that could quickly get her the rest of what she needed. The last time I talked to her, when she called to thank me for my help, she said 'gee, you foxhunters are such nice people.!' As if, I suppose, she expected foxhunters to not be nice people. So- yeah- educate the public, one at a time, if that's what it takes.

[ceffyl]

[QUOTE=Beverley;3857675]Ceffyl-

I dare say that nothing was done in the UK until it was too late because that is exactly what all of my UK foxhunting friends tell me.

Those two marches in London were great, but too late.
QUOTE]

A few of the fox hunting community chose to believe the bill would never be passed. However those of us who are commited to the sport and all that countryside rights stand for did battle the proposals for years, since the early 90's with great force. The bill to ban was put forward many times and the passing was delayed by various ways over the years. Various papers put forward in support of hunting. In the end it was fast tracked through in a rather underhand way by the labour government. Baroness Mallallieu kept the facts in the public eye brilliantly from the mid 1990's and is now instrumental in trying to get the bill repealed.

So your fox hunting UK friends who say too little too late are not at the heart of the hunting community or have been in the minority who chose to sit back complacent. The London marches were certainly not too late, it was a further 2 yrs before the bill was passed. Too late would have been the months immediately before the ban.

[ceffyl]

Meant to add look how quickly the various states are getting dog laws passed now. How much are you battling to prevent your right to have a dog and keep it as you see fit? The way the laws are comming thick and fast you may be the next in line to have a law passed for compulsory spay / neuter. Remember being complacent can have a knock on effect after all you are involved in a sport that works hounds. What if the next set of laws make it so difficult for breeding new stock that the quality and depth of the American foxhound is lost? I have yet to see a completely spayed / neutered pack but that theoretically could be on the cards.

[iechris]

I am new to foxhunting, but I do breed and show dogs (a sighthound breed). My dog show friends know about the foxhunting and all have been supportive and some have said they are jealous. I've encouraged them to try to go to their local hunts as a car follower!

People at my work know and think it is interesting. The hot accessory of the year at my work is a concealed carry permit. At my mom's work, there tend to be some more AR types, but they all know me. They may happen to be under the impression that it is a drag hunt. They think that sounds good, but the most AR (whose daughter evented and did dressage and who keeps goats and horses) did warn that foxhunters do a lot of drinking.

My yoga friends... not so much. They know about the dog breeding and I'm sure some don't approve but no one has ever directly confronted me about it.

I've been kind of surprised to meet people in the hunting community who seem to think show breeders are all wackjobs. I'm also tired of show breeders who don't see problems with arbitrary dog limits (ie. over 25 dogs and you are a hoarder) and can't see beyond a narrow definition of what is acceptable care (living outside full time with access to shelter, food and water is abuse). The spay/neuter laws and dog limits are coming fast and furious and we really ALL need to work together. I think it will take compromise on both the side of the show breeders and working breeders, as some within each group seem to disapprove of the other, but we really need each other if we want to continue to be able to breed dogs.

Sorry for the long and slightly off-topic post.

[Ponyclubrocks]

I do and most people are fascinated. Perhaps a few disapprove but not enough to say so to my face. I have my MFHA logo on my truck and hunting decals on my trailer so I'm not trying to hide anything. I consider myself an ambassador for horse sports whenever and where ever I ride so I always try to be approachable and friendly.

[Gloria]

Sure I announce to the whole world when I go. If anyone has any uncivil opinion about it, they are more than welcome to kiss my horse's A$$ :D:D:D Negative comment? I'm sure I can find something negative about anyone who criticizes about me so we are fair and even. If they don't like my company, I sure can find someone else who is more fun to be around. Come one. Life is too short to worry about what other pepole think. With that said, I have not found that I need to use this side of my persona though hahahah.

[Beverley]

So your fox hunting UK friends who say too little too late are not at the heart of the hunting community or have been in the minority who chose to sit back complacent. The London marches were certainly not too late, it was a further 2 yrs before the bill was passed. Too late would have been the months immediately before the ban.

Ceffyl,

Actually, I'm quite familiar with what happened over there, being one of the US foxhunters who supported the cause, a good many of us did what we could, whether joining Countryside Alliance, or otherwise donating, writing letters, participating in surveys, and yes even attending those marches. Not to mention the Maryland and Virginia foxhunters who demonstrated outside the White House, with foxhounds, when Tony Blair came to visit W. And, actually, yes, my UK foxhunting friends are at the heart of the hunting community, and were there in the forefront, too. Delaying the ban by two years is winning a battle, but the ban did get enacted, so, losing the war. Too late. Though I'm sure I'm not alone in hoping it can get reversed, I do still read my Countryside Alliance communiques faithfully. Here is what 'too late' means, as posted on FOL by Janet George:

http://archives.foxhunters.org/2009/Jan/msg00209.html

And if you want to spend hours going through the archives you will find YEARS worth of discussion.

And, again, it isn't meant at all to be a condemnation of the tremendous effort in the UK, just a political fact of life that hopefully we in the US will learn from, though honestly, I think we're too late, too, though that won't keep me from continuing to do what I can. Fundamental issue remains that both in the UK and the US, most of the population has lost touch with the land, and so don't know, and don't care.

As for the various dog laws you mentioned in your last post, yes, that is exactly the sort of thing I alluded to in my previous post. How much am I battling it? As much as I can, probably more than most. I also spend considerable time and effort on keeping trails on public lands open to horses.

[Sonic Boom]

I've only been the once, but hope to join my local hunt next season, and am very involved in/work for my farm keeping the hunters fit, getting them ready to hunt, etc. That said, as soon as the photos came back from the wonderful hunt I got to attend, I happily showed anyone at work/friends/family who wanted to see the photos, and talked about it. They all know I ride, and co-workers indulge me with a mixture of "Goofy girl goes on and on about her pony!" and finding it interesting. I didn't find a one who didn't think the foxhunting was *especially* interesting, way more than the dressage or eventing I go on about.

My boss is from the UK and was quite pleased to see the photos - he is from London, and a lifelong city boy, but he thought it was neat to hear the differences/similarities of what bits I had learned about Foxhunting in GB and here.

Most people I encountered, whether talking about my wonderful chance to hunt, or telling them about the hunters at the farm (bless my indulgent friends and co-workers), always have lots of questions from the obvious "Do you kill the fox?" to "Where do you find the LAND for this?!" It is, as stated several times here already, a great chance to talk about our fast disappearing land.

I think it reminds many people of lovely pictures, a bygone time, and nature. They don't realize it goes on not so far from where they live, and I liked how interested many people where! Should I get to join the hunt next season, my boss knows full well already why I would take one morning off/week. ;) But then, he sends me merrily on my way for any vet or farrier appointment anyway (I am very, very lucky).

[Major Mark]

England and the rest of the UK is NOT a socialist country.

It most certainly is. Your country went big time into nationalization after the war, and it took Herculean efforts by Maggie to pry you loose from it. And everybody still complains about Thacher, and I ask them, Why? She saved you from third world economic status. "Oh, it's not what she did, it's how she did it..."

Jeez.

You are so regulated, controlled, reviewed, watched, monitored, advised, lectured, hectored, ad infinitum. I go over there every year, and even flew over in 2002 to march in the Countryside Alliance march. Every time I leave, I want to scream at you people, "1984" was a WARNING, NOT AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL!!"

******************************

As for Foxhunting, I'm loud and I'm proud. I'm not afraid to stop by the convenience store on the way home from hunting and weird people out.

I've even participated in the classic Washington DC tradition of showing up at work in hunt clothes. For many years various Washington politicians, cabinet officials, lawyers, etc. would show up in the office in the morning, dressed for hunting, do a few meetings, then leave for the meet. I think it was Grosvenor Merle-Smith's Grandad or uncle whio worked for the State Department that did the same. Gro would tell me about it.

*I* would do the same at the Navy Lab (Carderock) I work at in Bethesda now and then. Bull Run meets at 1:00 on Thursdays, so I would show up in the lab *properly attired*, work in the morning, then bug out at 11:00 to go to the meet. Great fun watching people's reactions.

When they ask, I leave nothing out. Yes, we chase foxes, and if the fox is old or sick, the hounds catch and kill him, thus saving the fox from the agony of a slow natural death. I've never run into anybody who had a problem with it.

[ceffyl]

[QUOTE=Beverley;3859238]Ceffyl,

Here is what 'too late' means, as posted on FOL by Janet George:

http://archives.foxhunters.org/2009/Jan/msg00209.html

And if you want to spend hours going through the archives you will find YEARS worth of discussion.
QUOTE]

Janet George was one of the problems in the latter couple of years leading up the ban who succeeded in further alienating the countryside community from those who wish to see Britain return to a vast wilderness of feral animals. She has the attitude and manner that further riles the LACS supporters, her comments in press releases about "having a large agressive dog on her property to see off hunt sabs" is not the way to endear the hunting folk to the non-hunters. She formed the radical Countryside Action Network after falling out with the Alliance and by her own admission CAN is a radical group and they did nothing but sitr up more animosity.

The years worth of discussions I am fully aware of thank you. Though the archives link you show seems to be a forum. There are full records of all papers and evidence to support the continuence of hunting with dogs as submitted to MPs and Parliament archived which is available to anyone to read. Plus records of all debates put forward both in Parliament and court.

[ceffyl]

[QUOTE=Major Mark;3859551]

You are so regulated, controlled, reviewed, watched, monitored, advised, lectured, hectored, ad infinitum. I go over there every year, and even flew over in 2002 to march in the Countryside Alliance march. Every time I leave, I want to scream at you people, "1984" was a WARNING, NOT AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL!!"

*IQUOTE]

And you must fly in and out of Heathrow in one day and clearly know nothing about life in the UK. Pray tell me how we are so regulated, controlled, reviewed, watched, monitored, advised, lectured, hectored, ad infinitum.

[ceffyl]

It most certainly is. Your country went big time into nationalization after the war, and it took Herculean efforts by Maggie to pry you loose from it. And everybody still complains about Thacher, and I ask them, Why? She saved you from third world economic status. "Oh, it's not what she did, it's how she did it..."
.

I have NEVER heard anyone complain about Margaret Thatcher.

FYI the UK is a Constitutional Monarchy, NOT a socialist state. The labour party is in government at the present time but this will change.

You have a sadly uneducated provincial attitude that is offensive to the UK citizens, and shows a real ignorance.

Nationalisation was not limited to post war. The first nationalised company was back in 1896 (Oh sorry maybe you do remember that first hand ? - therefore you are correct post Burma war) and that was the GPO. The only nationalised services in the immediate post WW11 years were neccesstities such as gas, coal, electric, rail, road, water and all of those now have competition from private sector ownership apart from roads which would fall under local government. There have been others since including your darling Maggie buying out Johson Mathey for £1. Those still remaining do not have a monopoly as free competition from the private sector is encouraged.

How about American nationalisation? Have you forgotten before you so heavily slate another country for it's actions?

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=Beverley;3859238]Ceffyl,

Here is what 'too late' means, as posted on FOL by Janet George:

http://archives.foxhunters.org/2009/Jan/msg00209.html

And if you want to spend hours going through the archives you will find YEARS worth of discussion.
QUOTE]

Janet George was one of the problems in the latter couple of years leading up the ban who succeeded in further alienating the countryside community from those who wish to see Britain return to a vast wilderness of feral animals. She has the attitude and manner that further riles the LACS supporters, her comments in press releases about "having a large agressive dog on her property to see off hunt sabs" is not the way to endear the hunting folk to the non-hunters. She formed the radical Countryside Action Network after falling out with the Alliance and by her own admission CAN is a radical group and they did nothing but sitr up more animosity.

The years worth of discussions I am fully aware of thank you. Though the archives link you show seems to be a forum. There are full records of all papers and evidence to support the continuence of hunting with dogs as submitted to MPs and Parliament archived which is available to anyone to read. Plus records of all debates put forward both in Parliament and court.

janet has her own baord and her own rules she was a member of the bhs board until they had words so was told yet she breed irish drafts and hers are the greatest for hunting and dressage dont you know

[ceffyl]

[QUOTE=ceffyl;3859676]

janet has her own baord and her own rules she was a member of the bhs board until they had words so was told yet she breed irish drafts and hers are the greatest for hunting and dressage dont you know

Her foray into breeding ID'S (Please learn how to spell DRAUGHT) is not that well established. Though she has had years within the equine industry her own "line" of ID's is in it's infancy. I'm sure as she has started with the old lines of Touch of the Blues and Grey Macha she will get some of the old heavyweight types.

[Trakehner]

:mad::no::mad: You clearly know nothing at all about "the problems in England". The ban on hunting with dogs affects the WHOLE of the UK, not just England.

If you call a Labour governemt socialist then you could call the USA that too with the democrats in power....I see far more snobbery and class envy in the US than the UK.

Actually, I was quoting an earlier poster (which is why I had the quotation marks around it).

And you're right, the labour gov't is socialist (think Red Ken in London as an example)...and so is "The Bama" and what the dems want to do...universal this and universal that. They are trying their damndest to make the US into GB/France/Sweden/Germany.

The class envy is the city vs. the country (and I do belong to the Countryside Alliance). They hate the "toffs", the country people, the people enjoying themselves in ways they don't agree with...just like our L.A. and NYC Americans looking down their noses at the fly over people.

The classic comparison of the Brit vs. American attitude of envy used to be: A Londoner sees a Rolls Royce drive by...he shakes his hand and yells, "I should have that car, not him!" An American sees the Roller go by and states, "I'm going to have one of those one day."

[Moderator 1]

Please tone down the general political discussion and return the conversation more closely to the original topic.

Thanks!
Mod 1

[JSwan]

Ok.

I'm pissed because I can't go hunting on Saturday. I got snookered into going to some fancy restaurant in the CITY for an early dinner. I'm even going to have to dress up.

Have pity on me. :winkgrin:

[Major Mark]

Wear Scarlet if convenient.....:D

[Beverley]

I've even participated in the classic Washington DC tradition of showing up at work in hunt clothes.

I was uncool. I went to the Bull Run early cubhunting meets, 6 am to 7 am, then went home and showered and changed, then went to work. And later adjusted my work schedule so as to have every Monday, and every other Wednesday, off.:)

I did, however, show up plenty of times in the late afternoon, still in hunting togs, still with horse in trailer, to teach classes at church or teach after-school French at the elementary school. The kids loved that, and kids WILL behave during the arsenic hour if you promise they can pet the horse after class. Okay, still having horse in tow did mean I was cutting it too close, but y'all know how hard it is to head back to the meet when hounds are running (and some may have known how hard it was to give up a couple more hours watching Michael Power or Melvin Poe hunt hounds).:cool:

Once, the powers-that-be at church detoured me into the office on my way to the classroom. I was concerned they were going to call me on the attire, and/or the hogging of two parking spaces in the parking lot. Shouldn't have worried- they were troubled because 'government investigators' had been there asking questions about me, part of the periodic checkup related to my gov't security clearance, so they merely wanted to know what I had done that had these investigators snooping around (and was it a venial or a mortal sin)! They accepted 'nuclear weapons stuff' as an okay answer...

[Romany]

It most certainly is. Your country went big time into nationalization after the war, and it took Herculean efforts by Maggie to pry you loose from it. And everybody still complains about Thacher, and I ask them, Why? She saved you from third world economic status. "Oh, it's not what she did, it's how she did it..."

Jeez.

You are so regulated, controlled, reviewed, watched, monitored, advised, lectured, hectored, ad infinitum. I go over there every year, and even flew over in 2002 to march in the Countryside Alliance march. Every time I leave, I want to scream at you people, "1984" was a WARNING, NOT AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL!!"

******************************.


Now, that was as entertaining a piece of bigoted hogwash as I've read on this board for a long time, Mark, dear. Thanks for the laugh.