Could You Do This?

[May07Bride]

The animal lover in me has a huge problem with this while the environmentalist and health food freak in me is ecstatic. It's an interesting place to be!

So here's the scoop... My new boarding place also raises cattle. To me, all animals are pets (even though I fully realize this is not how it works) and so it just never occurred to me what this really meant. I thought, 'cool in that huge pasture over there on the other side of the farm are some cute cows!'

Um...obviously not. I had a few business cards from my new barn owner in my purse, but hadn't looked at them until today. In addition to all of the usual (boarding, training, sales, etc) it reads "grass fed beef".

Holy shit - they sell and eat those cows!!! And then my mind went to - holy shit - local beef that is totally safe, organic, quality, and from people I already know and trust!!!

So as you can see, this is a big problem for me. On one hand this is the perfect solution for someone who likes to monitor where her food comes from, what's in it, and how it's made, but the animal lover in me just sees cute moos.

Would you be able to get and eat beef from the farm where you spend lots of time at with your horse? Has anyone done anything like this?

[CHS]

the cattle I eat graze every day. I see them every time I look out my kitchen window. It doesn't bother me a bit. Yes I like to watch them graze, but they also taste really good. LOL

[Ibex]

But I thought that meat grows in those cute styrofoam packages? :confused:

:lol:

Seriously tho... I feel your pain. I eat meat, but have a personal rule about never eating anything whose ears I may have scratched... :eek:

[Calvincrowe]

Absolutely, I could do it. I understand where my meat comes from. I wouldn't want to be there/do the killing, but I could butcher it out, if I had to. I am just terribly squeamish about killing things, but not opposed to it.

At least you'd be able to see not just what the cattle ate, but how they lived or were treated before being butchered. Did they have a "good life" with kindness and a natural environment or one fraught with stress, that ends in a frightening, traumatic way?

Not all animals are "pets", and all that leather that your tack is made of came from some cow, some where....

[Vandy]

And this is why my boyfriend is nervous about me spending too much time at his ranch: I may not cook him steak anymore if I get too attached to his cows :lol: I stopped eating chicken when I got pet chickens, because my chickens are my friends and I can't fathom eating their relatives. I'd say, if you are a vegetarian, you have a point...but if you are a meat eater, it's hypocritical to eat other beef but not this beef. Take comfort in the fact that (I am assuming) this cattle is well cared for and well fed.

As my boyfriend says, his cows, who live on thousands of acres of beautiful range, only have one bad day in their lives, when they are taken to market. I've been on his ranch at branding/castrating time, so personally I think they have two bad days in their lives...but you get the idea.

[BuddyRoo]

I guess I have to add the caveat: grew up in farm country and all of the kids raised their steers for 4-H then ate 'em. So I'm cool.

And yeah. I'd eat the friendly ones next door. No bones about it.

[May07Bride]

Thanks everyone. The health nut in me LOVES the fact that I will know where our meat is coming from (and yes, they are out on hundreds, if not thousands of acres of grass and very well cared for) and that makes it so much safer and I feel like I won't be contributing to any painful suffering that comes with the more "conventional" ways of getting meat (even though now I buy the organic/grass fed at the grocery store, I have not a clue where it comes from).

The animal lover in me feels like a horrible person for being somewhat happy and excited about this. :( haha

[PonyPile]

I had some really cute roosters.
I processed and ate them, so no, I would have no problems with that :lol:

[Doodlebug1]

Yup, part of everyday life for me....

It is sad to send them off for slaughter, it really is; but equally you know the provenance of the food - unless you aren't going to eat beef at all it is far better to eat the meat of animals you know were well cared for than to eat the meat of stock that you don't know the provenance of.

Never mind the fact that presumably knowing your barn owners, you'd rather line their pockets than someone else's. Really, they will hugely appreciate your $$ - and your compliments that their grass fed beef is the best you've ever tasted.

If you find it tough, then I suggest you don't go and cuddle the cows. Keep your distance if you need to. I'm sure that once you've been there a while you'll just accept it as one of those things and you won't worry about it so much...

[May07Bride]

Yup, part of everyday life for me....

It is sad to send them off for slaughter, it really is; but equally you know the provenance of the food - unless you aren't going to eat beef at all it is far better to eat the meat of animals you know were well cared for than to eat the meat of stock that you don't know the provenance of.

Never mind the fact that presumably knowing your barn owners, you'd rather line their pockets than someone else's. Really, they will hugely appreciate your $$ - and your compliments that their grass fed beef is the best you've ever tasted.

If you find it tough, then I suggest you don't go and cuddle the cows. Keep your distance if you need to. I'm sure that once you've been there a while you'll just accept it as one of those things and you won't worry about it so much...

Yes, yes, yes... these are all the very good points that are slowly making me think this is totally OK and even great. :)

And yeah, I will definitely keep my distance (pretty easy to do there b/c it's huge) and be happy to support my local cattle company and barn owner :)

[Lilykoi]

I think its an advantage to be an animal lover and raise them for food. I do believe in the food chain but also believe they should be treated humanely along the way.

[WorthTheWait95]

Yup, personally I'd rather help support people raising cattle in a healthy, humane environment then throw more money at less savory outfits. But then I've never been of the vegetarian persuasion.

[Bayou Roux]

Seriously tho... I feel your pain. I eat meat, but have a personal rule about never eating anything whose ears I may have scratched... :eek:


Yeah, I'm a moosh. This is where I'd fall.

I'll eat the cows two farms over, but not ones I might have a personal relationship with.

[Thomas_1]

I've close on 800 cattle and nearly 2000 sheep.

So the answer is yes.

I'll eat the cows two farms over, but not ones I might have a personal relationship with Isn't that illegal over there :winkgrin:

[Guin]

I would WAY rather eat meat when I could see exactly where it came from than buy it in a grocery store. It wouldn't bother me that it came from "Fred the Steer". That's what they're raising them for, after all.

[danceronice]

My brother and I when we were little actually went for "pony" rides on our neighbor's cow Terry Sue. Then one day my brother went to visit and had hamburgers. He said Terry Sue tasted good.

I don't think when push comes to shove I could actually kill the animal myself (game falls into a different category for some reason) but I don't have a problem eating animals I know.

[Just Another Poster]

Absolutely! I would like to know where it came from and how it was treated so that would be an advantage to know it before it was slaughtered.

[Quin]

but not ones I might have a personal relationship with.


So don't get up close and personal with them. Note that they are there, that their condition looks good, and decide whether you want to go on the list for a side of beef or a whole cow. Don't go skritch ears. They're not there to be pets.


Seriously, this is a very timely thread for me. My trainer's stalls started to say "moo" this summer when they got in a few bottle calves. As the economy has tanked they have expanded and have quite the cattle operation now, and I wondered if that made us too, too redneck. Apparently it's more common than I thought. :)

And we pick up our side of beef from the processing plant this Friday. Yum, yum.

[deltawave]

Would you be able to get and eat beef from the farm where you spend lots of time at with your horse?

Yup. Yummy yum yum. :)

[BumbleBee]

I get my beef from a friends farm where I spend a decent amount of time.

I actually helped bring them in from the back 40 to seperate the ones going to be butchered.

I look at it this way, HAPPY cows. They are well cared for have 100 acres for 25 cows to roam, a very friendly bull boyfriend who lives with them. They have a pretty great life..... and wow do they taste good.

[Seven-up]

While I see your point, I have to ask, what do you think cows are for? I don't think their main purpose is being lawnmowers. What do cows do? They make milk and hamburgers.




There is such a thing as too close for comfort, though. I've refused to allow my dad to get a couple baby cows for many years, because I just can't feed something every day for a year and pet its cute little baby cow nose and then eat it if I know its name.

So I do understand where you're coming from. I'm not so conflicted that I can't enjoy a good steak, I just also prefer to think that hamburger grows in those little styrofoam packages.;)

[mandalea]

I went to a friends barbecue the other day, and at the time, I didn't think about it, but then realized that the steak I was eating was Margaret! I was eating one of my favourite cows!:cry:

She tasted nice though! :yes:

But, as a rule now, if I've named it, I can't eat it :yes::D

[goodhors]

Yes, we could eat the cows we know. We raise market lambs for 4-H every year. Daughter has them trained to handle and show, so they do well at the Fair. Better they do, the better they sell. The money is going to help her college fund.

We talked about knowing how the lambs would end up, freezer meat, before she got them as a much younger kid. We talked about how the lambs were going to go for meat regardless of if she bought them or someone else did. Here they are handled daily, have a nice paddock for grazing and friends to play with. They have a nice life, for the time they are allotted. Perhaps having seen her brother raise and sell his lambs earlier helped how she viewed them.

She names each one, knows them well with the daily handling. We cry each year when we leave them at the Fair for the shippers to pick up. Again, they had a very nice time while we had them. Better lives than many other lambs that get sold for meat. Treated humanely, well cared for during that time, but we can't keep them forever. They are money makers, we KNOW they will be eaten, not pets. Does make it easier to let them go. We will be going lamb shopping in a couple months for this years project lambs.

We have eaten our own lambs, and they do taste VERY good. No one here turns the meat down when offered.

We know the man who raises our beef, though not the cows personally. They live good lives, pastured with friends, short trip to the butcher, then into the freezer. It sure tastes a lot better than any store beef!

You just have to keep in mind these meat animals are not "forever" keepers. Repeat daily. Like project equines, just visiting, going on when done here. Can't keep them forever.

[loshad]

And yeah, I will definitely keep my distance (pretty easy to do there b/c it's huge) and be happy to support my local cattle company and barn owner

You know, if you have a horse who's afraid of cows, just ride him near their field and the resulting spook will ensure that you have no problems eating them. ;)

They sound very tasty.

[deltawave]

I have a general question about 4H animals, etc. What is the actual profit margin on the lambs, goats or steers that kids raise for market? I think it would be a great thing for my son to do when he's a little older. Not thinking about it strictly as a money-maker, but that would be part of the equation as to which sort of animal--we're set up for horses, not "livestock" but it could be workable, possibly.

[seeuatx]

I'd rather eat those ones than the ones that come wrapped in syranwrap (sp?) and styrofoam. The reality is most animals are not pets... and if you cannot handle the idea of knowing what your food is and where it comes from, why do you eat meat?

[danceronice]

I have a general question about 4H animals, etc. What is the actual profit margin on the lambs, goats or steers that kids raise for market? I think it would be a great thing for my son to do when he's a little older. Not thinking about it strictly as a money-maker, but that would be part of the equation as to which sort of animal--we're set up for horses, not "livestock" but it could be workable, possibly.

Generally at our fair, the animals go for better than the regular market price, because the buyers are largely bidding to support the kids. Champion and reserve champion animals go fo significantly more. What the profit for the kids and their families is, I don't know.

[Brookes]

We were looking forward to getting some top quality beef from my brother in law. Then . . .they named her . . . Bernice. Bernice is now the oldest living cow in Northern California. She eats fig newtons and comes running, yes running when my brother in law bellows for her! She will tear across the field looking for . . .yup fig newtons.

We have since been the grateful receipients of their other backyards moos! Yummy! But big old Bernice, well some gals just have all the luck. He insists it's because she is such a good mama and he has had no problem eating her offspring. But never ever Miss Bernice. I swear the old thing will end up dying of old age.

Even ranchers sometimes get attached. He named all his hogs, daisy, petunia, daffodil, rose, pansy and thistle. Let me tell you we had us some delicious daisy, petunia, daffodil . . . . . Hey what's for dinner???? Petunia chops!!!

[Blue Yonder]

I have a general question about 4H animals, etc. What is the actual profit margin on the lambs, goats or steers that kids raise for market? I think it would be a great thing for my son to do when he's a little older. Not thinking about it strictly as a money-maker, but that would be part of the equation as to which sort of animal--we're set up for horses, not "livestock" but it could be workable, possibly.

The auctions after livestock shows down here in Texas are FULL of people who purchase animals well above market cost -- businesses do it, groups of people do it. People love to support the kids that way.

My college roommate (now a dermatologist) grew up in a small TX town on a working farm. Her brother raised steers. Before he graduated high school, he'd already funded his college, bought a new truck and a boat with his livestock show earnings.

My kids will be showing animals as they get older. Not because mom says so, but because they think it looks like a huge ton of fun, and they're at the barn with me daily anyway so hey, what's one more animal to attend to? :-)

[goodhors]

Deltawave, like everything, it depends. Nice built, show type lambs are pricy, $100-150 each. Lambs are about 40+ pounds, early Jan or Feb birth date. Then you need to buy lamb pellets, high protein, add to plain grain and hay as feed. We get our lambs early, April for the last of July Fair date. We give them a week or two after purchase, stess of changes, to relax in pen inside the barn. Probably have never been outside before. Grained morning and night, hay all the time. We lead them around outside, getting them trained to halter. On nice days they are let outside with big horse halters as harness and dragging a lungeline. Lambs are still pretty wild, would be hard to catch, might go under the fence wire because they are small. Someone watches them outside while they play for short times, Daughter's job! She takes turns stepping in line, reeling them in or holding them while she walks up and pets them. Turns them loose again. May just sit there and they will check her out or play. Not much grass, just nibbles. Good because sudden diet changes can upset their systems. We gradually work them outside longer, remove harness and lines as they tame up, put belled collars on them to locating them outside, AND horses know where lambs are! No spooking anymore.

Price of feed is going to dictate your profit margin. We usually go with a 1/3 combination, lamb pellets, cracked corn, oats or barley. Price of grain will probably be my choice maker. Corn was very cheap last year, oats next, with barley real high. So I used oats instead of barley. Later in the season oats were pretty high, so I upped the corn proportion, used less oats. Sheep do fine with hard grains, use the feed well. Lamb pellets have some of the mineral and vitamin needs for fast growth desired. We also top dress the lamb ration with lamb vitamins. Pellets usually stay the same price all season.

Lambs cleaned up the loose hay from our stack in the barn. Didn't really use much baled, maybe 8 bales over the season? And some for Fair, 1/2 bale. I feed what they clean up, don't want waste. Our big savings is grazing the lambs. Once weather is good, stomach's acclimated to grass, they are outside all day. That paddock is not used a lot anyway, close to the barn for leading lambs out or back inside. They have a tree to lay under.

Other lamb raisers in the 4-H Club just feed grain mixes. Have no grazing or hay. This makes for a leaner looking lamb, no belly, along with daily exercise to build muscle. Gets early growth done, but often have to then diet feed to prevent too much weight gain. Show lambs sell best at around 130 pounds. That is desired market weight. Not sure if those folks turn a profit with all purchased feed, but parents may subsidise the project.

I want her turning a profit, that is just good business. Learning what costs you, expenses involved, if it is worth doing that way. Selling at a loss is bad business! 4-H should be teaching that to the kids. She is buying her own lambs from those profits, costs her own money!

We aim for a bit more on our lambs, 140 or so at Fair, to give a cushion if lamb gets stressed, feed change with too much intake on piggy ones, runny poop, and loses some weight for various reasons. They are usually tied for graining nearer the Fair time, so each eats his own portion. Just like the horses!

Daughter is expected to walk the lambs daily, with increasing distances as she nears the Fair. This starts after school is out. Twice a day the last 3 weeks before Fair. Distance is big then, with hot days so lambs get too hot walking (marching!) along. Doing over a mile by Fair, around the big field. She as a water bucket that they get drinks each round. Used to be really entertaining, with her having the small dog on leash, large dog loose, leading old horse who also needed exercise, and two lambs. The Crowd moves along the fenceline, with small dust cloud above for tracking as they went over the little ridge, around the corner, down the long side. They reappear from the swale hole, make another round. We would laugh as they went along. She insisted they ALL needed to go for the walks, though some days went better than others.

So you would have to see what you have into the lambs, against what you get paid at the Fair Auction. Helps if you have good community support in buyers. Many family members will buy livestock, beef, lambs, pigs, so some kids animals get very good prices. Reading the local paper and seeing one Fair's lambs sell for 90 cent a pound is very disheartening. Our Fair sold very well last year, with all going over $1.50 the pound, most much better. Lambs were limited in supply, only 35 selling. Lambs are the perfect family buy, not too big or small for the modest freezer. Daughter got $2.10 and $2.50 the pound, sold seperate. Our Fair doesn't sell pens, except birds. So she turned a good profit after expenses. We had no other family to buy our lambs, running up the prices. We could not afford to buy hers at those prices! Daughter does send out Buyer letters, asking folks to come buy animals at the Fair, to local industry, professional places. Again, great local Community support for the 4-H kids with great buyers.

She got good ribbons, various top four placings in Showmanship, Pen and Individuals, which may help in selling. Shows the lambs are nice quality in a Judge's eyes, who are looking at meat production. Meat quality is the bottom line in showing meat animals. Judges poke and prod the animals to feel muscle all over body, depth of fat layer, result of work by the kids. No one wants just fat animals anymore for meat. Too much waste, not what people want to eat.

So lambs are not just feed and ignore, to win at the Fair. Less work and expense than beef. Not as much trouble as goats, with a bigger return because meat goats don't weigh as much as lambs. That price per pound return. We get about 70-75 pounds of meat back on those lambs. Goat MIGHT return 30 pounds after processing.

If son is small, he might get smaller lambs to start, learn on. We had some crosses, were just small sheep, Dorset crosses. 25 pounds when purchased, little! Top weight was about 100 pounds, more gain was just fat. But a good size, calm, for small daughter to learn with. They stuck out in the lamb class like beacons! One was snow white and the other was shiny ink black. Common show lambs are blackfaces, pure or crosses of Suffolk and Hampshire. Judge even said he disliked wrinkly skin lambs out loud when placing them, but complimented daughter on how well fitted and muscled they were. It was a learning year, lambs sold well even being the wrong style. Just know that sheep folks are VERY traditional, so blackfaces are expected in market classes.

Maybe son could raise and sell as organic, grass fed lambs, with a pre-determined price per pound. Just buy feeders, market them by fall, no winter carryover. They need forced exercise for better meat and fat distribution thru the body. Son does need to walk them daily. You need good fence, set of shearing clippers. Market lambs gain better with less wool after weather warms up. We shear them short about every 3-4 weeks till Fair. Sheep can't sweat except in armpits and hooves to cool off, so they pant in very hot weather. We bring panting sheep inside the barn till sun is less hot, may put a fan on them. They have a wire pen, lots of air moving with the aisle breeze.

We enjoy the sheep, always making you laugh, not hard to care for once you know them.

[see u at x]

I think the OP really needs to do a search on the forums for Jswan's pig, Kevin Bacon. :lol:

[Rev]

Any meal where I can look at my plate and think,
"I know you had a good life doing what a cow/lamb/chicken likes to do.
I know you had fresh air, fresh water, good food and good care.
I know you were scritched and and spoken to kindly, given treats and you may have even had you own name.
I know that you died where you lived and that your death came quickly."

Now THAT is a really wholesome meal.

I know it sounds maudlin, but I really do go through that little ritual when fortunate enough to be eating locally procured meats.
:)p
Maybe it's my city-mouse gone country background.

Am between suppliers for now due to a retirement, but will be scoping for next home-grown, mobile-butchered supplier. I'm another few years off from feeling able to take on my own freezer stock. I'll have no compunction doing so when the time is right though!

Go for it! Happy cows are tastier. :D

[JSwan]

Would you be able to get and eat beef from the farm where you spend lots of time at with your horse? Has anyone done anything like this?

Sure!

I did and still do! :)

Doesn't bother me one bit. We even process the chickens at home.

[jem]

We used to raise beef to eat. I had no problems when it came time to send them off. And no problem enjoying the meat!!

If it weren't for the end result, the beef would not have had the enjoyable life they did have. Really, they ate good feed, hung out with their friends, and were killed humanely. A lot of people are far worse off.

[fordtraktor]

We kill one every year and split it amongst the family -- it is my dad's Christmas present to us grown kids. His name is Burger Boy.

The nice thing about it is that we have him processed by our local butcher and ask for the meat to be lean. It makes eating beef MUCH healthier.

[fordtraktor]

I have a general question about 4H animals, etc. What is the actual profit margin on the lambs, goats or steers that kids raise for market? I think it would be a great thing for my son to do when he's a little older. Not thinking about it strictly as a money-maker, but that would be part of the equation as to which sort of animal--we're set up for horses, not "livestock" but it could be workable, possibly.

We made good money on our FFA steers, and GREAT money if they won a championship.

The highest profit margin for us came from pigs. Our FFA chapter held a ham, bacon, and egg show every year, and the county commissioner would auction off the hams. We made a killing, as plenty of local businesses are willing to fork over upwards of $500 for a ham. Buying a whole steer limits the buyer pool more.

And if you think homegrown beef is good -- NOTHING touches homemade sugar-cured ham! I don't even really like regular ham, but I have never tasted anything so good.

[amdfarm]

Some of my horses have lived w/ cattle that were raised for beef. My friends and my BF's parents raise beef cattle, as well as have horses. They eat together and share the same pastures. BF's parents also give all the grown kids meat for Christmas every year. I don't have a problem w/ eating those cattle and I'm around a lot during calving time. Those calves are so stinken cute!! I have a pretty good relationship and understanding w/ my friend's bull. He's young so he's safe for now as long as he keeps getting cows prego. He's the coolest bull ever. His name is Arrow. I won't eat anything that has a name. My rule.

Last year we *almost* got a bucket calf for my son's 4-H project. I then had that serious talk w/ him about what would become of that calf (steer) once he was shown and grown up. He didn't so much like the thought of his pet show calf becoming dinner. But he understood that's a fact of life and raising cattle since he's been around it since birth. If we get the chance to have one again this year, he might think about it more, and will end up w/ a pet bovine. We'll see.

[lawndart]

We also raise Grass fed beef. It has spoiled me for eating beef at a restaurant, that is for sure. My phone has been ringing because my family (thru my Mom) has heard I have one heading for 'freezer camp'. Please note, even if your family raises beef, its not 'free' to do so.

When I see what they are getting at the Grocery (Wegmans yesterday) for a top roast ($7 a lb!!) I sure am happy we have beefers.

The rules are:

Don't name them. Its easy to eat the 'red steer', a lot harder to eat 'James'.
Don't give them personalities. That is how they get a name. Don't pet them either.
Treat them with kindness, feed them well, and the benefits are many.

Visit your local butcher to see how they are treated, and processed. I have no problem sending an animal to my local guy, he is quick, humane, and his plant is CLEAN.

My mare absolutely loves cows. She spends all her time trying to get in with them, so she can herd them to and fro. We don't let her, this upsets the cows :lol: they just want to eat. Oddly enough, she will spook a little at the neighbors cows (that are closely related to mine, we share bulls) if they come flying up to the fence to see us. Good training.

[Melyni]

ANd home raised cattle are the best if you can do it. You know what they have been fed etc and you can arrange the quickest cleanest slaughter for them.

We used to raise our own beef, and it was always far better than any supermarket bought beef.

You do need a big freezer for it all though.
MW

[pony89]

Sure! The farm where I keep my horse raises buffalo and sells the meat, and I very much enjoy some buffalo meat every once in a while. Granted, I don't have a very close relationship with the buffalo. They are essentially wild animals, grass fed on hundreds of acres, with minimal handling. They have very natural, happy lives, until their time is up hardly knowing what hit them. They are tasty! And as someone else mentioned, it is nice to support someone you know when you buy your food.

I have some meat chickens that I keep at a friend's, and I do intend to process and eat them. I haven't been able to get up the nerve yet, but their names are Patty, Nugget, Stir-Fry, Drumstick, and BBQ, so their ultimate destination is clear!

So, if I wanted to support our local 4H programs when I buy meat, how would I do this? Are they sold at an age where they are ready for slaughter? I have no farm, and I couldn't exactly go to the fair to buy a sheep to throw in my station wagon - is there some way to purchase an animal and just end up with the meat without needing to get it to the plant yourself?

[Rienzi]

My uncle was a farmer who ended up with a pet cow. She was well into her 20s when she died.

I wouldn't get too attached to those beef cows if I were you, but if you're going to eat meat, at least you know everything was done right. Not some factory "farm" with stressed, crowded, medicated animals.

[JSwan]

So, if I wanted to support our local 4H programs when I buy meat, how would I do this? Are they sold at an age where they are ready for slaughter? I have no farm, and I couldn't exactly go to the fair to buy a sheep to throw in my station wagon - is there some way to purchase an animal and just end up with the meat without needing to get it to the plant yourself?

Usually there is an auction and the animals are sold - at a premium - to buyers interested in supporting 4H as well as purchasing the meat.

If you are interested in just purchasing an animal but do not want to raise it yourself or transport it to slaughter, you are referring to what is called "herd shares."

You can contract with a local farmer who will raise the animal and transport it to slaughter for a fee. Then you pick up the meat and pay the slaughterhouse separately.

You can choose from organic, natural, grass raised, grass raised/finished, grass raised/grain finished. You can purchase a whole, side or quarter.

Some farms sell by hanging weight, some sell by cut weight. Some will sell you meat out of the freezer on their farm, some do not do that. (mostly this is due to insurance requirements, or people who do not realize their farm policy does not cover processed foods)

One place to start looking it eatwild.com

CSA's are community supported agriculture. These are alternatives to traditional grocery store shopping. You can purchase milk shares (raw milk from your "own" cow), shares in fruits or vegetables, meat or poultry.

Some farms are quite large, some are small. Some are only a few acres. It all depends. The idea behind this concept is to "shop local", and to also protect soil and water, open space, and genetic diversity in livestock and crops.

But there are disadvantages. Usually it's more expensive than grocery store prices. The product may not be consistent. You will not get fresh strawberries in January. It's more "natural" in that you will see a greater variety of products, but if a crop fails or is too abundant, your share of a crop may be too much or too little.

With meat, dairy or poultry, there may not be the consistency in size and flavor that you are accustomed to. I think taste is usually the number one complaint - grass fed and finished just tastes different and must be cooked a little differently.

But if you can finagle this for even part of your food supply, you'd be doing rural areas a big favor. At least you would be for my area.

[deltawave]

Thank you all for taking the time to give such good and lengthy replies to my question! And sorry to hijack. :)

[goodhors]

So, if I wanted to support our local 4H programs when I buy meat, how would I do this? Are they sold at an age where they are ready for slaughter? I have no farm, and I couldn't exactly go to the fair to buy a sheep to throw in my station wagon - is there some way to purchase an animal and just end up with the meat without needing to get it to the plant yourself?

Our 4-H animals sell at the local County Fairs. They have an auction and anyone can bid on the animals. As mentioned you can get very good prices as the seller, but usually there are animals that sell for less than premium amounts.

Our two local Fairs have arrangements with the butchers, and haulers are available to take your animal FOR YOU to the butcher. You need have no contact with the animal until you pick up the box of meat from the butcher. You probably will have to call in a cut sheet, telling butcher how the meat should be packaged up. We always ask for the shoulder roasts to be cut in pieces, only keep one leg of lamb whole. Otherwise the cuts are too big for our family. Packages of burger in pound or 2 pounds.

I would try to make time to attend the local Fair, see how the market animal auction goes, prices for the animals. The Fair we attend is rather small, no midway or carny rides. Very family oriented, so numbers of animals are smaller at the sale. The other local Fair has huge numbers to sell, prices can be quite economical for the home buyer. You pay for live weight, but meat returned is not as much in pounds. Lots of waste in processing, like internal parts, legs, skulls and bones. We figure about half the lamb comes back as meat. Cows and hogs I can't remember the ratio.

Buying for the home, I think Fair animals are a very good buy for the money, great meat for flavor and quality. Would be rated Prime in most inspections.

Give it a try, you will probably enjoy yourself at the Fair Sale a lot. Come home feeling good about buying from the kid and have great products for the freezer. Our Fairs sell birds, along with the animals. Don't get into the milk sale, they get thousands for that gallon!!

[fanfayre]

It's why we always named our beef calves Mr. T(bone) and Sir Loin-a-lot, and naems like that (although I confess I named my first calf Mr. Moon, since I helped deliver him on a full moon), but man he tasted good!

[CanterQueen]

My uncle was a farmer who ended up with a pet cow. She was well into her 20s when she died.

I think I knew your uncle. When I was teen my dad had a friend who had a farm. On that farm was a big steer named Spot. Spot was bought as a project to feed and slaughter. Instead Spot spent his days giving kids rides and following my Dad's friend around like a big 'ol puppy dog. Boniest back I ever rode on. :lol: But, I still eat beef. :):D:)

[May07Bride]

I'd rather eat those ones than the ones that come wrapped in syranwrap (sp?) and styrofoam. The reality is most animals are not pets... and if you cannot handle the idea of knowing what your food is and where it comes from, why do you eat meat?

I never said I couldn't handle it. I said that the animal lover in me who sees animals out and about and thinks they're all cute was conflicted. But the more I've thought about it, the more I realize that IF I am going to eat meat (and I am) I want to support good practices, localpeople I know, and humane treatments.

[CallMeGrace]

We lived in Britain for 15 years, 5 of them on a farm with cattle, sheep and chickens. I would go out in the field and select a "beast", as the farmer called it, to share with the farmer and his family. The local butcher would do the deed. The animals had all had a lovely life in big fields, no drugs, just being "beasts", and they did not have to travel far at the end. It was the best I have ever felt about the food I ate (although we do now belong to a local organic garden that is wonderful!).

Not to hijack, but Thomas I read your replies to the barn manager salary thread, and ANYTIME your manager leaves, let me know! I have been feeling very nostalgic for Northumberland....

[fromatox]

I'm going to go way against everyone else and say NO I could not. I do not eat meat; it just feels "wrong". A lot of people give me the "but it's natural!" argument...why? Because it's found in nature? Many species eat their young, and each other, but we sure wouldn't call that natural!

I don't have anything against people who do eat meat, but for me, no - it would be very unsettling.

[seeuatx]

I never said I couldn't handle it. I said that the animal lover in me who sees animals out and about and thinks they're all cute was conflicted. But the more I've thought about it, the more I realize that IF I am going to eat meat (and I am) I want to support good practices, localpeople I know, and humane treatments.

Ah, I see. Actually I am of the same mindset then. From the title of the thread, I read the 1st post a bit differently I guess. I just know a lot of people who cannot eat any meat that does not come from the store, because they cannot handle thinking that it was once a live animal... I don't understand that mindset, and often ask why they eat meat. I don't ask to be rude, but more because I just don't get it. For me, knowing that it was once alive allows me to feel connected to nature... sort of a circle of life thing. So the disconnect of walking into a store and pulling out a carton of ground "beef" does not appeal as much as knowing the farmer/rancher and the care they provide from day 1 until the last.

[amdfarm]

I think I knew your uncle. When I was teen my dad had a friend who had a farm. On that farm was a big steer named Spot. Spot was bought as a project to feed and slaughter. Instead Spot spent his days giving kids rides and following my Dad's friend around like a big 'ol puppy dog. Boniest back I ever rode on. :lol: But, I still eat beef. :):D:)

My ex husband had a cow named Spot. She was his 4-H project many years prior and still remained a gentle and safe cow to be around. Nobody rode her, but he'd walk out amongst the herd and lean on her and pet her. I thought it was cute. Scared me to death the first time he did that, as he'd not told me about her. You just can't do that w/ most cows. I couldn't tell her from the other black white faced cows and didn't know her tag number. He could "spot" her a mile away. I'm sure she's gone now and lived to a ripe old age, too. If she had some heifers later on, I bet he's still got them so 'ol Spot lives on.

[mjrtango93]

Not a problem at all here. I board at a place that land leases to a beef farmer 6 months of the year for grazing. Sure they are cute when they are born, but then they are just loud, obnoxious, stinky, stupid animals. We have had many a loose cow because it went through fencing, and the first time they get in the barn and knock over tack trunks and poop everywhere you will no longer have any qualms about eating them. I had my eye on a young steer the other day, he kept chasing me on my re-habbing guy and trying to get me killed, I bet he would make a nice burger!

[Tamara in TN]

Holy shit - they sell and eat those cows!!!

Would you be able to get and eat beef from the farm where you spend lots of time at with your horse? Has anyone done anything like this?

well yeah...we eat our own cows and pigs...and trust me...piglets are far cuter than calves;)

best

[theoldgreymare]

Would you be able to get and eat beef from the farm where you spend lots of time at with your horse? Has anyone done anything like this?

I would have no problem with this. I spent the day checking out websites for certified humanely raised livestock, wonder if your place was one of them? We recently raised to pigs for consumption and I truly thought I would have a problem eating "pig 1" and "pig 2" when the time came. I did not. In fact, I eat them with relish (not the condiment) knowing they had a good life and death.

[JSwan]

Let me just say I wish this forum was around when I sent my pig to the butcher.

He was a nice pig and a couple of people enjoyed reading stories about him. Unfortunately, some of them were very upset when he went in the freezer.

I felt bad for upsetting people, but really, this is where our food comes from.

[onthebit]

We raise grass fed beef. As lawndart said, eating beef that you've raised yourself that was not fattened on a feedlot diet has spoiled me forever from eating grocery store beef. We sell out of our beef every year.

We also have a little herd of six pet cows that for various reasons have made it into the "pet" category.

Three of the pets: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=b4b9fn&s=5

"Buster" is the black and white steer in the back; he's been with us since 1996 and sticks at just shy of 18 hands!! :eek::eek:

"Annie" is the black heifer in the front

"Apple" is the brown one with the perfect Mac symbol on her forehead

A close up of Apple's Mac symbol: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30j38rp&s=5

To give a better perspective on Buster's size: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=206h4bp&s=5

[lcw579]

When I was a kid they brought in 3 steers at the farm where we boarded. After we kids had a failed rodeo with them (stupid things wouldn't buck ;)) we made a real pet out of the friendliest and named him Curly. He would let us ride him and was very sweet.

Well, eventually they went off to slaughter and the farm owner sold off some of the meat to interested boarders. Mom and Dad bought 1/4 steer I think because we had a lot of beef that year! Don't know who it was but it was mighty tasty! I'd jump at the chance to buy some beef that I "knew".

[Go Fish]

Oh yes...I was raised on a cattle farm, though. If you work around cattle for any length of time, you'd be more than happy to kill them yourself...:lol:

[TrakGeorge]

We were looking forward to getting some top quality beef from my brother in law. Then . . .they named her . . . Bernice. Bernice is now the oldest living cow in Northern California. She eats fig newtons and comes running, yes running when my brother in law bellows for her! She will tear across the field looking for . . .yup fig newtons.

We have since been the grateful receipients of their other backyards moos! Yummy! But big old Bernice, well some gals just have all the luck. He insists it's because she is such a good mama and he has had no problem eating her offspring. But never ever Miss Bernice. I swear the old thing will end up dying of old age.

Even ranchers sometimes get attached. He named all his hogs, daisy, petunia, daffodil, rose, pansy and thistle. Let me tell you we had us some delicious daisy, petunia, daffodil . . . . . Hey what's for dinner???? Petunia chops!!!


When my aunt retired from being a doctor and moved to her farm. She bought several Black Angus cows. She had fun shopping for studs and the babies were so cute. Yet, lucky for the moms and babies....she never could eat them. They all lived to be around thirty years old! :eek:

[danceronice]

Three of the pets: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=b4b9fn&s=5

"Buster" is the black and white steer in the back; he's been with us since 1996 and sticks at just shy of 18 hands!! :eek::eek:


Holy cow! (Uh...steer.) What have you been feeding him?!?

[onthebit]

Just grass Dancer - we call Buster our freak of nature! Buster is very friendly and loves to have his forehead scratched. The problem is he shakes his head up and down when you do it, kind of like a dog does when being scratched. You don't want to be accidentally whacked with that head while you're scratching him!

[MistyBlue]

Onthebit...have you considered sending Apple's photo to Mac? If I remember correctly...Disney once paid a bloody fortune to someone who had a cow born with a Mickey Mouse marking on it's side. :winkgrin:
The three bovine amigos are adorable! There's a farm down the road from me that has a pet Ox. Bosco..."B" names must be the thing for huge bovine! Bosco once got his foot stuck in a strand of electric , hubby and I drove by when that happened and since I was always staring out the window hoping to see the big ox I noticed he was caught.
We pulled in, I jumped out of the truck to go unstick him while hubby and daughter drove back to the house to let the owner's know. Now I grew up around farm animals...we raised a beefer every year for the freezer, had smaller animals, etc. I don't think I was ever up close to an ox before though...damn they're HUGE up close! My first thought was, "Dude, please don't freak or bite!" His head was probably the same size as my body, LOL! I got his foot loose while he was busy licking the top of my head. :lol: Apparently he was more lover than fighter. Got to meet the owners a moment later, nicest couple. Bosco was a rescue they took in, he towers over their horses. And now I keep telling hubby I want my own ox. :D
What does your Buster weigh? I'm guessing Bosco was around 18hh easy too...never did ask what they weigh. Am guessing at least 2000#?

[onthebit]

Buster tips the scale at about 2900lbs, maybe a tad higher, it has been a few years since he was weighed. You feed him his wormer with a shovel!! :eek::eek: When you look at him straight on from behind he is so wide across his butt I swear you could put a full table setting on him!

I never considered the idea that Apple could be worth something as a marketing tool MB, do you want to be her agent? :D

Bosco is a good name for a cow (or an ox), will have to file that one away for future use. :cool:

[Blinkers On]

Absolutely. Have done and will do again. 4H'er that sold my project for meat and have eaten my project animal. If you realize from the get go that they are not pets and they are animals meant for consumption, the way you "bond" with them or don't will change some. I can seperate food from a pet but a pet from family....

[Blinkers On]

I have a general question about 4H animals, etc. What is the actual profit margin on the lambs, goats or steers that kids raise for market? I think it would be a great thing for my son to do when he's a little older. Not thinking about it strictly as a money-maker, but that would be part of the equation as to which sort of animal--we're set up for horses, not "livestock" but it could be workable, possibly.


I went to college with a bunch of Ag students and everytime money ran out they "sold a cow." Money problems be gone till the next one has to go on it's way... Most of them had land and parents with land and cattle, so they didn't have any costs. It was win win.

[goodhors]

Husband used to trim a steer that got "saved" at the Fair Auction. Little girl raised Sparky, fitted him, trained him to show. Did a really good job, won ribbons at the cattle shows, got Grand Champion at the Fair. She led him in and around at the sale, and bidding was going well. Suddenly she seemed to realize that steer was going for meat. She screamed at her father from the ring, "Daddy, they are going to EAT HIM!!!" Well that stopped everything for a minute, then her father raised his hand to bid. Other folks knew he wasn't broke, gave him a bidding run! Knew Sparky had to go home with the crying kid!! That steer was REALLY high priced when he sold, but he did go home with them.

Little girl had him trained like a pony, lifted his feet for trims, didn't even LEAN on you! Groomed and stalled with the horses. Loaded in and out of the trailer on a lead. He got quite huge with time. Steers for meat are usually only 2yrs old when they go, not fully grown. I guess old steers would be Oxen. He lived a VERY long time, over 15 years, just died recently. Little girl had grown up, moved away, but her dad still had her horses and Sparky. They buried him on the farm. Most expensive animal on the farm!

He was the only steer husband ever trimmed. Good manners kept him on the list to be done.

[goeslikestink]

The animal lover in me has a huge problem with this while the environmentalist and health food freak in me is ecstatic. It's an interesting place to be!

So here's the scoop... My new boarding place also raises cattle. To me, all animals are pets (even though I fully realize this is not how it works) and so it just never occurred to me what this really meant. I thought, 'cool in that huge pasture over there on the other side of the farm are some cute cows!'

Um...obviously not. I had a few business cards from my new barn owner in my purse, but hadn't looked at them until today. In addition to all of the usual (boarding, training, sales, etc) it reads "grass fed beef".

Holy shit - they sell and eat those cows!!! And then my mind went to - holy shit - local beef that is totally safe, organic, quality, and from people I already know and trust!!!

So as you can see, this is a big problem for me. On one hand this is the perfect solution for someone who likes to monitor where her food comes from, what's in it, and how it's made, but the animal lover in me just sees cute moos.

Would you be able to get and eat beef from the farm where you spend lots of time at with your horse? Has anyone done anything like this?



well matey you wouldnt be any good if left stranded on a desert island haha
bugs for tea then for you haha whooops i forgot they living creatures also haha perhaps a weed then haha

sorry couldnt resist

[Skeezix]

For me personally, I would have a problem eating a cow or critter that as someone else put it, I had scritched it on the head.

I don't think anything is wrong with it though.

[Lori]

I had meat goats and sheep on my own farm that I raised as grass fed, natural meat. I myself am a vegetarian (not a PETA vegan so don't get that confused). So, yes, I have kept my ponies with grass fed critters before that I ended up cooking for my ex or the dogs. :) It is just a part of nature. Maybe if more people actually KNEW the facts of life like this, then cruelty in slaughter and factory farms would end......

[Hampton Bay]

My rule with beef is that I don not want to personally own the cow that I will eat. Someone else owns it and I scratch its ears? Sure. But If I own it I will get attached and the cow will stay a pet.

What does help is to name them all something food-related. My neighbor has a little piggy that I named Bacon. Now I cannot look at her and not think of meat.

Of course, when my hens are too old to lay anymore, I would eat them. They stink, so even though they have names, its not the same to me. They don't enjoy being petted. Not much personality.

[Foxtrot's]

I'm quite prepared to say I live by a double standard. We eat beef, even though we have had cattle - I just close my thoughts to it. I can get past it when it comes back cut and wrapped in Kraft paper.

It is really heartbreaking to go to the 4-H auctions and see those young kids broken hearted when their cattle, sheep, etc. are bid for by the local butchers. They know the deal, but it is so sad to see them being so brave - and they are for the most part from farming families.

[county]

Not only do all my horses live here but also all my cattle, hogs, sheep, poultry, and rabbits. We butcher them for our own meat and we sell them ( along with the horses ). Myself and my kids grew up with 4-H and weren't broken hearted at all when we sold livestock. I used the proceeds to buy land to start farming my kids used it to go to college. The more we sold the better.

[Foxtrot's]

...you must be a guy then :D

[county]

Ya I am but my daughter isn't and she raises sheep, poultry, and rabbits butchers them herself and sells the meat. What sex someone is plays no part in it my wife raises hogs for slaughter. Lots of people eat meat and it doesn't fall out of the sky.

[ASB Stars]

Ya I am but my daughter isn't and she raises sheep, poultry, and rabbits butchers them herself and sells the meat. What sex someone is plays no part in it my wife raises hogs for slaughter. Lots of people eat meat and it doesn't fall out of the sky.

Somehow, none of this is surprising... :lol:

[county]

No reason it should be that I can see. Where do you think meat comes from?

[county]

Btw my other daughter helps with butchering she will finish her Masters in nursing this sprig the oldest a major in music. But they both eat meat and know where it comes from. Its how they went to school.

[scpezold]

I had a friend who was raised on a farm that had cows. This one calf (of course) she got really attached to and it became her "pet". Her parents kept warning her but this girl knew her parents would not seriously carry out the act (not them personally but sending it off). She had the cow well into adulthood and then she went off to college. Of course she comes home one weekend to dinner in which steak is the main course. She had not had steak in awhile (college budget) and kept commenting on how great the steak was. Fast forward to after dinner when she goes out to see her "pet" cow......

Lesson learned.:cool:

I love beef (am a meat and potatoes kind of girl) but I don't want to think about the "act". Just whats on my plate in front of me. ;) Yum!

[cloudyandcallie]

But I thought that meat grows in those cute styrofoam packages? :confused:

:lol:

Seriously tho... I feel your pain. I eat meat, but have a personal rule about never eating anything whose ears I may have scratched... :eek:

Me too. I try not to eat meat but sometimes do. But if I had to kill a cow or a chicken, I'd be solely a piscaterian, since I can kill fish and shrimp and crabs. If TV would show what happens in slaughterhouses every day, then I'd not be eating the occassional dead cow. After all, if meat is so good, why do we have to cook it to eat it? (and steak tartare has so many things in it besides beef.)
When I lived in Atlanta and the subdivisions were invading the northern farms, one family in a subdivision fed a heifer from their back yard. When the cow's owner told them he'd been shipping the heifer off to slaughter, the family bought the cow and put her at some sanctuary (they hoped). We do have to "forget" the origin to eat meat.:(

[JSwan]

We do have to "forget" the origin to eat meat.:(

Who is "we"?

I don't have to forget anything. I know exactly where my food comes from.

It's true that there is a "disconnect" between Man and nature these days. But that's because most of us have removed ourselves from the natural world - not because we have to "forget" anything in order to enjoy our food.

I sold some eggs to a friend and I had to practically swear an oath that he wasn't going to open his fridge to find live chicks in his egg carton.

People haven't purposefully forgotten anything. They are merely so far removed from reality that the fact that an egg comes out of a real live chicken is a shock. Sometimes I think people would be less shocked if a flying saucer landed on the White House lawn.

[diKecnadnuS]

Would you be able to get and eat beef from the farm where you spend lots of time at with your horse? Has anyone done anything like this?

If it doesn't have a name I usually will eat it. There are some exceptions to this rule--I don't eat anything that has been my pet. I would never eat a beagle, a cat, a golden retriever, a horse, etc. So I won't eat lamb or sheep, or veil (had a pet sheep and pet calf). I am fine with eating big grownup cows, because when we had those on our farm I wasn't allowed to name them, and they were mean anyways.

[katarine]

There are horses out there I'd gladly pound out with a meat tenderizer ;)

I'd gladly eat local beef, named or no. We're right now sorting a chicken coop for meat birds and some egg birds. Fine by me.

[Bluey]

When my aunt retired from being a doctor and moved to her farm. She bought several Black Angus cows. She had fun shopping for studs and the babies were so cute. Yet, lucky for the moms and babies....she never could eat them. They all lived to be around thirty years old! :eek:

We had one of our cows, Doodlebug, that grandma would not ship, that was out of an old milk cow and a hereford bull.
She had been "looking poorly" the last few years and finally laid down and died one nice summer night, at 27 years old, that is about like 110 years old in people's age.

[Alagirl]

The animal lover in me has a huge problem with this while the environmentalist and health food freak in me is ecstatic. It's an interesting place to be!

So here's the scoop... My new boarding place also raises cattle. To me, all animals are pets (even though I fully realize this is not how it works) and so it just never occurred to me what this really meant. I thought, 'cool in that huge pasture over there on the other side of the farm are some cute cows!'

Um...obviously not. I had a few business cards from my new barn owner in my purse, but hadn't looked at them until today. In addition to all of the usual (boarding, training, sales, etc) it reads "grass fed beef".

Holy shit - they sell and eat those cows!!! And then my mind went to - holy shit - local beef that is totally safe, organic, quality, and from people I already know and trust!!!

So as you can see, this is a big problem for me. On one hand this is the perfect solution for someone who likes to monitor where her food comes from, what's in it, and how it's made, but the animal lover in me just sees cute moos.

Would you be able to get and eat beef from the farm where you spend lots of time at with your horse? Has anyone done anything like this?



Hmmm, beef!

My uncle raised cows, a by product of his (legal) distillery to consume the mash after the alcohol was extracted. At one time he raised some other farmers dairy heifers, at some time his own meat cows.

Considering you are not inter acting with the cows on a human to pet basis...and it will be the best meat you ever ate in your life!

Not to mention you are supporting local farming....

[Blkarab]

Thanks everyone. The health nut in me LOVES the fact that I will know where our meat is coming from (and yes, they are out on hundreds, if not thousands of acres of grass and very well cared for) and that makes it so much safer and I feel like I won't be contributing to any painful suffering that comes with the more "conventional" ways of getting meat (even though now I buy the organic/grass fed at the grocery store, I have not a clue where it comes from).

The animal lover in me feels like a horrible person for being somewhat happy and excited about this. :( haha

My husband and his family were cattle raisers. After being around them for awhile, I came to realize why beef were eaten...they are not exactly bright and can be quite mean.

I would look at it this way...you know where the beef is coming from, you're supporting a local business, you're supporting a business that has responsible and ethical practices when it comes to raising their livestock, so I wouldn't have any qualms about eating the beef from your BO's. Look at it as supporting the local ecomomy and the environment, and being healthy to you as well.

[Bluey]

My husband and his family were cattle raisers. After being around them for awhile, I came to realize why beef were eaten...they are not exactly bright and can be quite mean.

I would look at it this way...you know where the beef is coming from, you're supporting a local business, you're supporting a business that has responsible and ethical practices when it comes to raising their livestock, so I wouldn't have any qualms about eating the beef from your BO's. Look at it as supporting the local ecomomy and the environment, and being healthy to you as well.

That sounds like we eat them because they are stupid and have a nasty temper.:eek:

Not really.
Cattle are like every other animal, including people, some nice and accomodating, others couldn't care less and a few have a trigger temperament.
Most really mean ones are not used for breeding, as that makes their offspring hard to handle.

Cattle, like horses, respond to how we treat, handle and train them.
If we get wild with them, they will act wild.
Good cattlemen handle cattle nicely and so they respond and do what we want.:cool:

[Blkarab]

That sounds like we eat them because they are stupid and have a nasty temper.:eek:

Not really.
Cattle are like every other animal, including people, some nice and accomodating, others couldn't care less and a few have a trigger temperament.
Most really mean ones are not used for breeding, as that makes their offspring hard to handle.

Cattle, like horses, respond to how we treat, handle and train them.
If we get wild with them, they will act wild.
Good cattlemen handle cattle nicely and so they respond and do what we want.:cool:

Well, I didn't mean it like that. :winkgrin: I just realized after I met his cows, that I could see why they were used for food, among other things. Not all of the cows were mean, just a few (they were all pretty air-headed though). It was the snotty noses and the almost being trampled on by them that really got me. I still think they are very cute animals, especially the calves. I just don't have a problem enjoying them for dinner :lol: Some of the stories my husband would come home and tell me about were really funny, and a little scary to boot. They sold the ranch about 5 or 6 years ago. I think my husband misses it sometimes.