VENT about Alergies!

[Sudi's Girl]

My poor, poor boy has really bad allergies (I believe it's a grass allergy), and with this constant state of weather change (hot and then cold and then hot every other day) his allergies have been horrible ALL winter. He's even shedding out his coat already!

Normally he just gets really puffy behind his jowls, but yesterday I noticed that in addition, he seemed particularly exhausted, and our resulting riding work was pretty much useless as he just had no energy to do anything. This is the first time that he's seemed this tired though from the allergies.

I'm pretty much at my wits-end trying to help him! He's on bee pollen normally (which I haven't really seen helping him significantly), but I've also tried Dex shots (didn't do much) as well as dex powder (which actually does reduce the extreme swelling in his jowls) with hydroxyzine (sp??) to follow up. My problem is that I don't want him on drugs ALL year round. I can understand it for seasonal allergies, but this is just TOO much.

Isn't there anything else???? (and no - moving isn't an option right now :D)

[idlemoon]

Yes, you should have him allergy tested. Intradermal allergy testing is by far better than doing a blood allergy test. I often find that animals with allergies to mold are worse this time of year. If your horse is allergy tested and you find that he has positives to inhalet/ enviromental allergens, then an allergen specific vaccine is made up for him. This is a medication which is used year round, however it addresses the actual allergies. It does not treat the "symptoms" of allergies, like the steroids and antihitamines do.

Horses, in general, tend to do really well with the immunotherapy. Testing is pricey, but if the immunotherapy works, it makes for les $$ down the road.

You can find a dermatologist at acvd.org

Lisa

[Sudi's Girl]

That's really interesting. My vet strongly recommended NOT doing that mainly because of the price and because it most likely would bring up hundreds of different allergens. He did not seem to think we'd be able to treat all of them.

Do you have any experience with this type of thing?

I'll be checking out that site though...

[Woodsperson]

I thought the allergy testing was very reasonable. It was about $300 for testing and maybe $350 for a years worth of antigens and syringes. For subsequent years the cost will only be for the antigens and syringes. For me it is cheaper than repeated farm calls, ventipulim and steroids-plus it actually has made a significant difference for my horse.

[Lori T]

I not only work for a vet derm center, but also own a draft x with allergies. Definitely do the intradermal testing, it is more reliable than blood. My guy is positive to 26 out of 72 allergens, including grass, alfalfa and flax. He is on a monthly allergy vaccine. It will be a year and a half that he has been on it and it takes about a year to start working but we are seeing good results with the vaccine. Our clinic charges $400 for the test. Initial vial kits are about $200 and my refills are $50.

[Alpha Mare]

You said you tried 'dex' which I am thinking is dexamethasone?

THere is a compounded IM drug that is 'dexamine' which is 19% chloretrimeton (antihistamine) and 1% dexamethasone that my allergic mares use for seasonal allergies - when the hives flare up or a bug bite swells. It works for about 48 hours.

Just a suggestion for the severe allergy times.

I am also using the desensitization shots on one mare and so far so good. I am further north, but my nose is itching (trees are waking up here a little) so probably 4-6 weeks behind you, plantwise.

[BornToRide]

Allergy testing is definitely an option, but I would probably try a few other things first.

First I would clean up the diet to basics - good grass hay only for a while (3 - 4 weeks, perhaps longer ) to see if anything changes. Then I would add one thing at a time back in and only use supplements that contain little extra fillers and would avoid any soy. I would only use supplements that are very basic in composition and use hay pellets as a carrier to feed if necessary . Try to stay away from any hay that may have been sprayed with chemicals.
Secondly I would consider trying Spirulina which has shown good results with allergy prone horses.

Best wishes!

[Sudi's Girl]

Allergy testing is definitely an option, but I would probably try a few other things first.

First I would clean up the diet to basics - good grass hay only for a while (3 - 4 weeks, perhaps longer ) to see if anything changes. Then I would add one thing at a time back in and only use supplements that contain little extra fillers and would avoid any soy. I would only use supplements that are very basic in composition and use hay pellets as a carrier to feed if necessary . Try to stay away from any hay that may have been sprayed with chemicals.
Secondly I would consider trying Spirulina which has shown good results with allergy prone horses.

Best wishes!

I've definitely attempted to clean up his diet, but we've determined that it's most likely something out in his field. He never shows any signs of allergies when he's in his stall or when we travel out anywhere either. :(

Never heard of Spirulina...how does that work?

[BornToRide]

From the Yahoo Equine Cushings group:

Spirulina Comments by Dr. Eleanor Kellon
Re: kelp vs spirulina for IR horse
Thu May 11, 2006 7:23 am
My question > is this: are kelp and spirulina very similar nutrient wise? > I find that the spirulina is much more palatable and I might have a > chance getting him to eat that. There are differences. Both contain a wide assortment of amino acids but Spirulina is much higher in protein than kelp. Both contain an assortment of minerals but kelp, because it is harvested from the ocean, is high iodine and Spirulina is not. Kelp is a plant. Spirulina is an algae. Kelp doesn't have the antihistamine and immune modulating effects that Spirulina does. Eleanor

Re: allergies
Wed May 10, 2006 6:06 pm
> What is the dosage for spirulina? 1 oz by volume/scoop measure - about 20 grams by weight - 2 times a day for average size horse. Eleanor

Re: Allergies, Immune System Builders & APF/Spirulina Question
Wed May 10, 2006 6:14 pm
> With more information, perhaps someone will be able to "spot" > something I may be missing (besides adding the spirulina and the APF > to his current diet) We are way OT for the Cushing's/IR list on this but since allergies are a common problem with these horses too I'll answer briefly. With a horse this age, I'd deworm every 3 to 4 weeks with ivermectin for a few months. Tissue stage larvae shift the immune system to an inflammatory/allergic mode which in turn ties up the anti-inflammatory defense systems. Forget the rice bran, load up on flaxseed, vitamin E zinc, copper, selenium appropriate to your area. Eleanor
Re: Allergies, Immune System Builders & APF/Spirulina Question
Tue May 9, 2006 5:35 pm
I got a 'bonus' when I had his minerals balanced to the > hay....no more allergies to no-see-ums! We haven't had any trouble since. Mineral imbalances or deficiencies (vitamin E too) are definitely one of the internal conditions that can contribute. Keeping trace minerals in balance and in adequate amounts is critical to normal functioning of the anti-inflammatory/antiallergy arms of the immune system. IR and Cushing's horses are often prone to allergies, may develop them for the first time in their lives. Other things that might make a horse more prone to allergies would include other, unrelated allergies (food allergies/sensitivities an offender here), cancers, virtually anything that creates an inflammatory response in the body. The reason they then become more allergy prone is that the supply of antioxidant and immune system supporting nutrients runs low. Eleanor

Re: Allergies, Immune System Builders & APF/Spirulina Question
Tue May 9, 2006 5:28 pm
You're right that immune stimulating herbs (Like Echinacea) are often, if not usually, contraindicated in allergy. The adaptogens though are immunomodulating and many are known to have antiallergy effects by stabilizing mast cells (the cells that release histamine) which is also one way that Spirulina works. Spirulina is more effective if started well in advance of fly season (bare minimum 2 weeks) and it doesn't work for every horse, which suggests the allergic reaction to Culicoides may be more complicated by common lung allergies (where it works much more reliably). Spirulina also has the advantage of actually directing the immune system away from IgE (the allergy immunoglobin) and toward protective IgA immunoglobins. The barriers are critically important too. Horses with Culicoides allergy are like dogs with flea allergy. One flea bite can trigger a widespread reaction. Eleanor

[Sudi's Girl]

You said you tried 'dex' which I am thinking is dexamethasone?

THere is a compounded IM drug that is 'dexamine' which is 19% chloretrimeton (antihistamine) and 1% dexamethasone that my allergic mares use for seasonal allergies - when the hives flare up or a bug bite swells. It works for about 48 hours.

Just a suggestion for the severe allergy times.

I am also using the desensitization shots on one mare and so far so good. I am further north, but my nose is itching (trees are waking up here a little) so probably 4-6 weeks behind you, plantwise.

Yes - I was definitely referring to dexamethasone! I found the IM Shot of dex (I don't think it's anything other than dex though) to not really do a whole lot - even in conjuntion with the hydroxyzine (antihistamine). The powdered dex form seems much more successful in getting the swelling to reduce - and generally it's gone the next day. I just don't like keeping him on dex. :(

[idlemoon]

Allergy testing can be pricey. Let's think about how much time and money you spend with regular vet visits and constant medication now? I have skin tested numerous horses, including my own. Immunotherapy works really, really well in horses, and over time your horses signs could all be controlled with an occasional injection (once weekly or even once monthly, depending on how he does)

Lisa

[Sudi's Girl]

It looks like there is a dermatologist/vet rather close to where I work (according to that website), so I will try to speak with them as soon as I can scrounge up the $ for it. :)

[Seven-up]

This might not apply; our horses may have different allergies, but anyway...


I had a horse long ago who was allergic to grass. She had different symptoms than your horse though. She had grass heaves. One bite of green grass would make her cough her brains out.

There was a simple solution, although she didn't like it. No turnout when the grass seed was alive, i.e.- green grass in the summer. Once we had the first freeze, and it killed the grass for the winter, she could go out. She was happy as a clam until spring. She had no trouble eating hay, which was "dead" grass.

I would investigate whether diet restrictions could help your guy.

I'm not sure if allergy shots would have helped my horse, or if they were even available back then.

[decorum]

My allergic guy is on spirulina for heaves and if he has a reaction to something (hives) I also give him nettle leaf powder, awesome stuff. I don't keep him on nettle all the time since he doesn't need it but it is so cheap it would be easy to do. He does get spirulina at all times or he has trouble breathing under exertion, on it he is fine. Both are available from herbalcom.

Ann Szolas

[Seven-up]

My allergic guy is on spirulina for heaves and if he has a reaction to something (hives) I also give him nettle leaf powder, awesome stuff. I don't keep him on nettle all the time since he doesn't need it but it is so cheap it would be easy to do. He does get spirulina at all times or he has trouble breathing under exertion, on it he is fine. Both are available from herbalcom.

Ann Szolas

I see you're in Wash. Are you talking about the nettle plant that stings if you touch it? I got quite the education on those plants when I went to WA to visit!

[decorum]

I see you're in Wash. Are you talking about the nettle plant that stings if you touch it? I got quite the education on those plants when I went to WA to visit!

Yes, that's it. I guess you can actually dry your own and use it and it doesn't sting once it is dry but it is so cheap I buy it.

On hot days in the summer I sometimes ride in shorts (trail ride) and those things suck then!

[pricestory]

For me, allergy testing and shots was way less than what I was paying trying to treat them otherwise. I did the blood testing, which is cheaper and worked for us. The whole test and shots for 9 months were less than $500. We are going on 3 yrs now and my pony can breath, never ended up with COPD.
I still do all the enviormental stuff, wet hay, out 24/7, but the shots work.
I also didn't use a special vet. Any vet can draw the blood and send it off.