Behavior changes and feeding the draft cross-advice please!

[luise]

So about 1 month ago, just after New Year's my 18 y/o QH/Belgian draft cross started becoming reluctant to work. He is relatively fit, as I do low level eventing with him, and he usually is ridden 1-1.5hrs/day, 5 days a week. It first started towards the end of my ride--he'd start backing up, spinning around, not wanting to go forward. I would kick him forward and he would knock it off. Now, he is a bit of a barn rat, so we just attributed it to being ring sour, having been in the indoor for a few months now.

Then the following week, as as soon as I got on, he did not want to go forward. Would grab the bit and drag me to the gate. He would spin around, hop, back up, anything but go forward. We still thought it was being ring sour--my trainer got on, kicked him forward, and then problem solved. I also thought it was the cold weather because the colder it was, the worse he was, and I had just reclipped him (a low trace clip). We had one warmish day, upper 30s, and he was fine. So he's still misbehaving, but I'm able to work him out of it.
So now fast forward 2 weeks, and all of a sudden he gets worse. Won't go forward at all, hopping, rearing (nothing major), dragging me into the walls, and won't do much to the left, which is weird because he had been better to the left. Trainer gets back on him and finds that he's much more sluggish than usual.

So at this point we decide to call the vet. We are thinking it is a relapse of his Lyme disease that he had 2 years ago, and so we start him on doxy. I start thinking maybe an EPSM type condition given his breeding, and sluggishness. Now, he has never tied up, had gait abnormalities, muscle wasting, etc. But he's been sluggish. Vet pulls blood (lyme titer, cbc, muscle enzymes, etc), which I am waiting to get the results on. The rest of the exam, including flexions, was normal. Only thing is that he has been getting rubs from his flash on the bridle, and spur rubs, like crazy (which also made us think Lyme). In the meantime he is getting some time off.

Now, trainer tells me she changed the feed about 6 weeks ago. I am thinking it is this. She doesn't think so since he had already been on the new feed for 2 weeks prior to him acting up.
For the past year he's been getting Glanzen Lite with 1/2 cup corn oil (to get him to eat it), plus vit E and selenium. Previous feed was Nutrena senior. New feed is Equi-Pro Promax 12:12. I am trying to find the NSC on these feeds to see if that is it. I've emailed both Nutrena and Poulin grains. Funny thing is that there is another Equi-Pro feed that they advertise as "low starch" but it has 40% NSC! So I am concerned that the new feed is something similar, possible double what he was getting.
Anyone have any ideas?
Any suggestions about what to feed? I am thinking to change the feed to something higher fat, lower starch, and increase the oil to 1 cup/day. I was thinking either Ultium, TC Complete or TC Senior. A Purina rep/nutritionist is supposed to come out to the barn soon.

[spotmenow]

I have three draft crosses, one who would develop wicked diarrhea as soon as the grass died for the season. I have all of them on alfalfa pellets/BOSS/Nutra-flax with a complete vitamin. I also supplement Vitamin E/selenium. I HIGHLY recommend the alfalfa pellets for these guys; the starch is bad news. I used to feed them SafeChoice (Nutrena) with no problems, but feel this is an even better approach. FYI-I switched some of the boarded TBs here to half SafeChoice/half alfalfa pellets and have seen a change in all of their moods-more mellow.

[Cherry]

Did you also have his thyroid level checked??? If the horse's thyroid is out of whack this is enough to make him lethargic and, if he feels crappy enough, make him act out.... If the thyroid function is low it could predispose him to laminitis so you might want to check that soon, if you haven't already.

Is that the Equi-Pro PerforMax your horse is on: http://www.poulingrain.com/pages/3264/EQUI-PRO™_PerforMAX_12:12.htm . Have you looked at the profile on this feed? I'd look for something that was more complete in the vitamin and mineral department if I were you! ;)

Twelve percent fat is pretty high and your horse could be at risk of developing Equine Metabolic Syndrome so I would be careful about the amount and kind of fat you give him. I've read in more than one place that feeding excess fat could potentially result in insulin resistance. Err on the side of caution...

If he was getting something from him old feeding regime that he isn't getting on the new regime two weeks seems like a reasonable amount of time in which problems could rear their ugly heads! What is he getting now that he wasn't getting then, and vise versa? Compare the nutritional profiles....

[luise]

I believe he did have his thyroid function checked--the blood was drawn on Friday, so I should hear back today.
This is the feed he is now on: http://www.poulingrain.com/pages/3589/EQUI-PRO™_Pro-Max_12_Pellet.htm

The feed you listed is the one that they advertise as low carb, but has 40% NSC! So I wonder if the feed he is on now is similar in % NSC. The vet recommended increasing his fat in his diet given his breeding. If I recall, I don't think that equine metabolic syndrome is associated with too much fat in the diet, but rather too much starch. Insulin works to allow glucose absorption--so too much starch in the sytem could lead to insulin resistance.

I should hear from the vet today, so hopefully I should have more answers.

[asterix]

I feed my draft cross TC Low Starch plus boss and oil -- we recently looked at all the TC feeds and that or Complete were the lowest NSC in that line. Complete if I am not mistaken has lower fat than Low Starch and more vits/mins as it is designed to be fed ONLY at amounts lower than 4 lbs a day.

[mammadoc]

tc lite is rated at 9% nsc. (or 9 point something) and complete has a 10% fat rating which is higher than the low starch.(6%). also- tc suggests starting w/ 4 # per day of the complete( per 1000 lb horse )and adjusting up or down as needed to maintain body condition.

[BornToRide]

Definitely could be that he developed some EPSM symptoms. The easiest way to check is chnage the diet back to where it was.

Also consider having the selenium and vit e levels checked. Of course it could also be other things like, ulcers, joint issues, back problems, hoof problems, pelvic misalignment, but I would start with the most likely possibility first.

[luise]

Well, he already gets vit E and selenium supplement (always has). We don't think it is anything physical (i.e. joint problems, back, hoof, etc), as the vet was out on Friday and found nothing wrong or sore. He also had his teeth done during all this, which didn't change anything. In fact, the dentist said his teeth looked good!
I am trying to find the % NSC on his old feed, Nutrena life design senior. It's seems impossible! I've put in a few phone calls and am waiting to hear back. I found the current feed he is on is 25-28% NSC.
I should get some blood test results back from the vet soon.

[BornToRide]

Sounds like you have it covered. I hope it turns out just to be the feed change. Good luck!

[luise]

Well, cbc, chemistry, and muscle enzymes came back normal. Thyroid and lyme are still pending. I am still waiting to hear back from Nutrena. I am going to try riding at the end of the week. I am also going to see if we can try putting him on Ultium, or at least going back to the old feed.

[LAMS21075]

Have you actually ruled out problems from your tack, i.e. saddle fit. It could be something is hurting him.

My Belgian/QH cross does some of these same behaviours but it's just because he's being naughty. Backing up is his favorite thing to do when he doesn't want to go where I am telling him to go. And spinning around is also one of his little avoidance habits.

I feed mine SafeChoice and he does great on it. I highly recommend it. Drafts do much better on a high fat low carb diet.

[luise]

Have you actually ruled out problems from your tack, i.e. saddle fit. It could be something is hurting him.

My Belgian/QH cross does some of these same behaviours but it's just because he's being naughty. Backing up is his favorite thing to do when he doesn't want to go where I am telling him to go. And spinning around is also one of his little avoidance habits.

I feed mine SafeChoice and he does great on it. I highly recommend it. Drafts do much better on a high fat low carb diet.

Yes, the vet already came out and determined there is no soreness. Most of the time (like 4 out of 5 times a week) I ride in a Devoucoux dressage saddle. I've had 2 different Devoucoux reps tell me that the saddle fits perfectly. My other saddle, a vega monoflap jump I use maybe once a week. The Devoucoux rep looked at it, and while it doesn't fit perfectly, it's not pinching anywhere or doing any damage. I use a half pad under it and it fits fine (confirmed with the saddle fitter).
My trainer and I tend to think he's being naughty too, but I have to wonder if they change in feed had anything to do with it. Lyme titers should be back in a week.

[BornToRide]

My trainer and I tend to think he's being naughty too, but I have to wonder if they change in feed had anything to do with it. Lyme titers should be back in a week.
If a horse is generally well behaved and cooperates and this is a new behavior, it is usually more than just being "naughty". Horses who have a "naughty" streak, tend to show this all the time, and not just under saddle. It is usually part of their personality because they are very smart.

[Ambrey]

Is this the same trainer you've had all along? Am I the only one who noticed the issue with the spur galls?

I suspect a training issue, personally.

[luise]

Is this the same trainer you've had all along? Am I the only one who noticed the issue with the spur galls?

I suspect a training issue, personally.

This is not a training issue at all, and quite honestly, I am really sick of how so many people have a "holier than thou" attitude on this board and think they know it all. If you don't know me or the horse, then you are in no place to form an opinion if it is a training issue. He had been very light off the leg up until this point. (I had a friend ride him who had last ridden him a year ago, and she agreed he could be ridden like a "normal horse" because I've worked on getting him much more respectful of my leg.) Did you actually read my post? My horse had actually been going better than ever, and basically shortly after New Year's it was like someone flipped a switch. Going better in one direction over the other is not a training issue. Also, are you aware that animals with Lyme can get a dermatitis--i.e. bald patches and losing hair easily?

BornToRide--actually, my horse does have a naughty streak. In the past with me and other riders (pros included) on him, he has tried his various evasions to get out of work. He is quite smart--I have had pros ride him, both of whom are well respected upper level event riders who agree. The difference here is that while the behavior he is exhibiting now is similar, it is of an entirely different magnitude--about a billion times worse than he's ever been. That's why I'm thinking it's either something related to the change in feed, or he is having a relapse of his Lyme disease.

Anyway, the point of my post is to ask what has worked others for feed for their draft crosses, and if they've ever noticed any behavioral changes as the result of different feeds. I'm trying to figure out if this recent change in behavior is due to Lyme, feed, or maybe both.