Oh I'm upset!

[Minerva Louise]

Back in June I was just starting to get back into horses, and didn't have any connections and sure didn't have a place to board, but was looking at horses and found a gelding that I just fell in love with. Sadly, he was gone- before I got an open stall, he was sold to another race trainer and I didn't get him.

I bought a different horse. This horse is ok, but his personality doesn't "click" with me and I am thinking about selling him. We just don't like each other. He is a very good horse, he just isn't .... special.

So a few nights ago, I dreamed I had a new horse. I was calling him "My sweet little red horse". It was a 16.2 hh chestnut gelding, sweet as could be, perfect! It was such a real dream, that the next day I got online and went looking for my sweet red horse- crazy, but it was rainy and awful, and I hadn't gone to the barn and had time to kill.

And I found him. S R King of Queens. But it is horrible- he looks AWFUL!!!! You can see him, before and after, here:
http://ottbsuccessstories.com/successstories/category/ottb-success-stories/dr-kenny-winn

Now I don't know what to do. I have a horse, the barn is full, I am several states away (in Arkansas), and the horse I fell in love with needs help. HOW do I help this horse?????? He is listed in the southern Ohio CANTER trainer listings. What should I do? Anyone have ANY ideas? I just want him OUT- off the track, whether he comes here or someone else gets him out of there - any ideas would be very appreciated. I am just heartbroken all over again. :cry:

[Evalee Hunter]

So can you afford to buy him? If the boarding barn is the one that is full, is there another barn where you could board him while you sell your current horse?

It is reasonable to be upset but it looks like you need to get in there & get things moving in the right direction for this horse.

[Minerva Louise]

Oh yeah, money is not the problem... How would I get him vet checked, hauled, that sort of thing?

[Laurierace]

Well if you love this horse you skip the vet check and just get busy with the shipping arrangements. I can't imagine you would back out of the deal if you found a chip or a bow so why bother? Contact CANTER for advice on shipping companies and ask around your area for boarding recommendations. It can be done.

[jenm]

You should be able to get some recommendations on this board for some reputable vets in the area. As for hauling, check out the Yahoo Group called Hitch Hiking Horses. It's an active group and haulers post their routes if they have open slots or they will contact you with quotes if you post the zipcodes you are hauling from and to.

Good luck, I hope this works out for you!

[Milocalwinnings]

I know what it's like to have a horse who you don't really click with, and then have one come up for sale who you really do love... I had the chance last winter to take a gelding who I adored, I had ridden him before, loved him, he was perfect for what I wanted to do. I thought over it tons, trying to figure out how I could make it work (I am 17 and I pay for my one horse's board already). I knew I couldn't financially make it work (didn't want to ask to work for board and I don't make enough to pay for 2 horses).

It really sucked to have to pass him up- he was almost free for me, he was in horrible condition for reasons I can't detail here, owned by someone who I once (sadly) worked for. I felt horrible- I loved this horse, he and I clicked more than my current gelding and I do (although its getting better between us) and he was in a horrible situation. Animal control ended up taking him and another gelding I loved almost as much (thank god... they are in a much better situation now).

**** But for your situation, from what I could gather, you don't know much about this horse. You've never seen him, never ridden him, etc. You decided that you wanted a chestnut gelding, x amount of hands and found him. But color, height etc. has nothing to do with personality. How do you know that you're going to like him? What happens if you don't like him or don't click with him? You could love him, but you could also find yourself in the same position as you are with your current gelding.
Honestly, I know how you feel, I really do, but I think you need to think this out very carefully. It seems like an impulse decision to say "wow I want this horse!". I've made that impulse decision with my current gelding- he was grey, pretty, and I was told he would be great once started again. If I could do it over I would have waited and searched around, taking the time to find one I truely clicked with.


ETA- If you feel you really want to buy him, I'd contact CANTER or his trainer and make arrangements with them so that they know you are interested and can help with getting him to you.

[certifiedgirl]

I would contact canter, surely they can offer some advice about how to get him to you. I had horses shipped from Arkansas to Washington several times, it really wasn't hard and if he's currently at the track it should be easy to get coggins and health certificate.
I had good luck with Bob Hubbard Horse Transport.

[Rev]

Erhm...Not to rain on your parade...
but if I read the Canter postings correctly, King of Queens is no longer available through Canter/that listing. It appears he sold to another trainer for a shot at racing at a lower grade shortly after being listed?
I suppose you could call the trainer to inquire after the horse and if the new trainer might be agreeable to sell.
Or, I suppose you could determine the next Behula claimer in which he races and make arrangements to claim him/pick him up that way.
Your post sounds like you're extremely worked up. Take a deep breath please. It doesn't appear he's at risk to ship for slaughter or drop off the face of the earth...and while the 2nd unflattering photo doesn't show a horse that looks to me to be especially thriving its also dark, glowy and at funny angles. Does he look like he could do better? Yeah. Does he look in imminent danger of death or total breakdown? No.
Heck, maybe the new trainer's program and race plan will suit him better.
Adding my two unasked for pennies...In today's economy it's smarter to responsibly rehome the horse you don't want before jumping into acquiring another under *omg* circumstances. Understanding that sometimes the dream and the opportunity appear and you simply must act...it's been my experience that fortune favors the level-headed and prepared.
Just noted your post that money's not a problem. So, locate some OH layup farms (bet canter has some leads), arrange to buy or claim the horse, get him fitted up and let-down from the track for a month or two in OH while you find a new home for your current guy. Then have him trailered home to you and live happily ever after...
Best wishes for a successful resolution.
Rev

[fourmares]

I'd skip that horse... he doesn't have the conformation to stay sound. I'm sure you could find another chestnut horse to fall in love with.

[Woodland]

Oh yeah, money is not the problem... How would I get him vet checked, hauled, that sort of thing?

**sniff** **sniff** do I smell Troll!

[nightsong]

When you're meant to have a horse, don't dsit around whining, make some phone calls. Race tracks (and the people who work around them) haul horses all around the country. Chances that a single phone call will net you not only a horse but shipping too are extremely high.

[Foxtrot's]

You have never even met the horse? His feet are not those of a durable long-term sound horse.

[Minerva Louise]

Ok- I've slept on this whole thing.

Somebody says he is sold? How did you find this out? See, I feel a little out of the loop- I'm not real savvy about buying horses at this point. I've not been back into horses very long after many years off, and back then, I lucked into a really great horse first off, so haven't had a great deal of experience at any time in terms of purchasing. I DO know to be picky...

To address someone else's concern, no, I have not met this horse, however, I did speak at length with someone that had contact with the horse in his former life. I knew what he was like then - but - the hesitation to do something comes from that indeed, I don't know about NOW. A lot can change. I do not know if he has been getting steroids or something lately, and feel that since I have to board, I have to picky about what I make someone else have to deal with day-to-day. Not to mention, whatever I take on, I have to deal with it too. :lol:

If I had been to attempt to buy this horse, he would have had to vet clean. Money isn't a big issue, but can become one if I suddenly decided to try and board lots of retired and potentially broke-down horses.

Being very realistic, I should look closer to home. I should sell the horse I have now first, even, and accept potentially being horseless for a while if it takes that. :(

[Rienzi]

Alright, first take a breath.
His listing on CANTER does not sound urgent, it is not in a pink box, and his trainer is asking $2,500. ANd while he's thin, it doesn't look like he's going to keel over any time soon.
My first move would be to call/email the CANTER people, and the ones who had his listing before. Ask all sorts of questions. Personality? Vices? What do they know about his current owner/trainer etc, etc. If he still sounds good, contact the trainer. Ask general questions and precise ones. If he still sounds good, you can arrange for a vet check...CANTER can give you numbers and contacts. The good thing about the vet check is that you get an impartial opinion on his condition, and just as importantly, his temperment.

If everything still sounds good, yes, you can certainly arrange for shipping. Just expect the arranging/delivery part to take longer than you can stand!

This is just how I got my guy through CANTER Ohio, and he's great. The trainer was good to work with and very honest. Of course, not all of them are!

[Minerva Louise]

Alright, first take a breath.

My first move would be to call/email the CANTER people, and the ones who had his listing before. Ask all sorts of questions. Personality? Vices? What do they know about his current owner/trainer etc, etc.

Personality, at least previously (back in June), was described as, "One of the kindest horses I ever met."

[Chall]

You have never even met the horse? His feet are not those of a durable long-term sound horse.
Could it be a bad trim/shoe job, long toes? What makes you say he his feet are bad? I'm not arguing here, just looking for conformation tips on bad feet versus shoeing job.

[Milocalwinnings]

Personality, at least previously (back in June), was described as, "One of the kindest horses I ever met."

That doesn't mean you guys will click though. You won't know that until you meet the horse over time. My gelding was described as "every little girl's dream horse" because he's grey, beautiful and sweet... and "a kind soul"...I've had him for 3.5 years... and while we are starting to click, he's not my "once in a lifetime horse". This guy has been through a lot of homes in the past so I can't bring myself to pass him on again.

I'm not saying you two wouldn't click... but it seems like this is an impulse decision that you have set your mind to and I don't want you to go through all the time and money to buy a horse only to find out that like your last one, you don't click with this one either.

As you said before, I'd look closer so that you can go meet the horse multiple times. There are TONS of chestnut TB geldings in the 16hh range available- I don't think you'll have a difficult time finding one closer to home:)

Personally, I think he looks better in the June 2008 photo than the Jan 2009 photo... but the most recent one he certainly doesn't look like he's in urgent need.

[caffeinated]

I don't think the more current picture is enough to warrant being upset over the horse's welfare... the horse is a little thin- many at the track are. But he's also in a winter coat, stood up horribly, and backlit which makes everything look worse (and the angle the photograph was taken from has something to do with it too).

If you like him, and want him, call the number on the listing and see where it gets you.

As several have mentioned, contacting CANTER for referrals to vets/shippers would be the next step after that.

If the horse isn't still available, you can still follow his career and keep your eye on him.

But honestly, your current horse isn't working because you don't click. So why would you jump into another impulse buy based only on a small amount of information available online or from emails? There are plenty of kind, wonderful horses that people don't click with. The one in my blog is like that- she's quiet and personable and very lovable, but she just didn't click with a potential adopter.

It just seems like impulse-buying a horse, based on its color and a dream you had, is a great way to set yourself up for disappointment.

Granted, my horse was an impulse buy and he makes me totally happy- but I also had no expectations either, and didn't automatically expect some perfect connection. It worked out in my case, but I think if I had set my hopes really high, many things would have been considered disappointing.

I'm normally all for trying to get people to buy canter horses- I love them and haven't met one yet I didn't enjoy. But if you're looking to fulfill a very idealistic dream, this doesn't seem like the best way to do it, IMO

Either way, if you want the horse, call and buy him.

[Minerva Louise]

Realistically, I realize that no horse is going to fit perfectly into that "dream horse" mold. I wouldn't expect any new horse to be truely perfect; it isn't fair to the horse no matter how much money you spend or how well trained or whatever. My first horse, that I liked very much, ran away with me a few times and scared me rather badly a time or two. But I got better at riding and he did too. We had many years of subsequent happiness. I get around lots of other horses, and I know it isn't just me or something I am doing with the current horse. He and I just aren't progressing and if anything we are going backwards. I find myself not going to the barn. I'm not there today; it is 60 degrees and sunny... and I am not going to the barn, I've got better things to do. That doesn't help the current horse any. I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall with him. I am just really frustrated. I don't want to get in the same position with another horse and that is probably another part of my paralysis.

[deltawave]

Why are you looking at OTTBs if money is not a problem and you're just getting back into horses? Aren't there plenty of well-schooled horses to choose from? Or am I totally out of the "suitable amateur horse for sale" loop? What do you want to DO with your horse?

ETA I don't mean this as harshly as it sounds, but if I were shopping for my 1st horse/dream horse as an amateur I'd not go first to the racetrack. I may have misunderstood your original statements and assumed more than I should have. :)

[Anselcat]

But honestly, your current horse isn't working because you don't click. So why would you jump into another impulse buy based only on a small amount of information available online or from emails? ....

It just seems like impulse-buying a horse, based on its color and a dream you had, is a great way to set yourself up for disappointment.

Double-ditto this.

Don't fall in love with a horse's advertisement. Wait until you can actually fall in love with a horse.

[Rev]

From what I read he sounded sold. Perhaps I've misunderstood the context of the information in this link you originally posted:
http://ottbsuccessstories.com/succes.../dr-kenny-winn
At the top it reads, "...He was sold to racing before we could find him a home. This is his photo as listed on the CANTER Web site January 28, 2009. See his before photo below. Please make a donation to a Thoroughbred rescue group like CANTER. You might not be able to save this horse, but you can make a difference in the lives of many other Thoroughbreds." (my emphasis added)
And from further down the same page, " ...S. R. King of Queens was one of the most memorable horses we tried to find a home for. He was kind and gentle and just wanted to be someone’s special friend. Instead, he was sold down in racing..."

When I hear that a horse is "sold down" in racing, to me that most typically means the horse went from one trainer's string to another trainer who is focused at a lower level--either at the same track or moving to a track with an overall lower level of competition. So, on the page you linked it appears to me that KoQ has sold and is still racing (or prepping--I think the BP season literally *just* started).

Someone with a different take or knowledge feel free to correct me. I'm far from an expert on the ins- and outs - of TB Racing...Heck, I don't even play one on TV. :)

Hope this helps clarify my initial post.
Rev

[Hoofpick]

I agree with what others have said. You don't know anything about this horse as far as his temperament, soundness, etc. or whether he will be any better for you than your current horse.

It's nice for you to want to help him, but there are lots of other horses out there, too, that need homes. There will be others if you need to wait until the time is right.

[equest]

I agree with what others have said. You don't know anything about this horse as far as his temperament, soundness, etc. or whether he will be any better for you than your current horse.

It's nice for you to want to help him, but there are lots of other horses out there, too, that need homes. There will be others if you need to wait until the time is right.

Agreed. Rather than getting dreamy about this horse she's never met, it would seem way more sensible to unload the horse that she does not click with, then fly to OH and check out the CANTER horses. Finding a suitable horse this way can be a longshot, but your odds would improve if you actually meet the horse up there, maybe with a friend or a trainer who can give you their "neutral" perspective.

[Minerva Louise]

Well, exactly, which is why many posts ago I mentioned that I should focus closer to home.

Problem is, it is difficult in this stupid state I live in, as for whatever reason, it is populated almost entirely by dinky 14 hh cowponies. I am 6 feet tall. I have to have a horse that is 16 hh or better, preferably 16.2 or more, and I looked for months to find my current horse (16 hh). I looked at so stinkin many horses in rocky pastures (not one with a decent place to try the horse), trying to evaluate movement and potential aptitude for eventing on horses that had no shoes but needed them desperately, ones that would barely move, ones that bucked, one that I think had epm, one that was severely foundered, etc- so please take this into account before jumping to conclusions about me. One was sold out from underneath me, by a seller that told me she didn't do that sort of thing because she had had it done to her and it stinks. Why did she say that if she didn't mean it???? I would have probably offered more and moved more quickly with the sale! All this is why I "settled" for my current horse- to be honest I knew he had the issues he has but thought training would resolve at least some of them but I CANNOT get any impulsion out of him and I guess he isn't going to develop any; he didn't have shoes and I thought that was part of it but he is stuck in a sort of Western riding jog-trot and it isn't changing. I can't stand it. You can't post to it, he just barely creeps along. I am working with a trainer and she has had no luck with him either, despite having thought the same thing when we got him.
All these things are why I am looking far afield. And while "money is not a problem" with a $2,500 horse, it does become one with a $25,000 horse.

My old horse I loved came to me as an OTTB greenie, but when he left me he was not a greenie anymore. This current horse is an OTTB. I DO KNOW A WEE BIT ABOUT OTTBs, ok? My friends ride- oh, I bet you guessed it, OTTBs. That would be why I am looking at OTTBs.

[webmistress32]

I fell in love with a POA pony sight unseen over the Internet from Washington state two years ago based on a picture and a paragraph.

he was on a feedlot and time was of the essence. within several days I had adopted him, gotten him hauled to a Quarantine location, had a vet see him for strangles and vaccinations, had the local farrier school trim his feet.

in two months he was in Chicago. :D

with the help of many many horse people these things are very possible.

ps this pony is the love of my life and I couldn't be happier with him. all of the money and logistics were totally worth it.

[equest]

A friend of mine adopted from CANTER Ohio a few years ago. She flew up there, met the horse, evaluated his movement, vetted him, sat on him, fell in love with him, brought him back to Florida.

Once in training, it was clear that he was not going to work for her, and she found another home for him.

My point is that it's an uncertain proposition with any OTTB even one you check out in person, and much more so it you order the horse over the internet without ANY knowledge of it other than what's posted online.

Just my opinion, but I would hop on a flight and go see a few some weekend.

[Rienzi]

To those who are asking, yes, as of yesterday, the horse IS for sale. He was sold earlier before the people on the one website could find a non-racing home for him, and now he is on the CANTER Ohio website as his current owner/trainer says he is not winning races, he is "just too slow." Current owner/trainer is asking $2,500.