Betadine "kills off healthy tissues?"

[BEARCAT]

True? False? Explain?

Turns out my horse has white line disease, and while waiting for the good stuff to arrive, I wanted to soak his hooves. I thought about using some Betadine in warm water, but was told not to since it may "kill off healthy tissues...?"

[pricestory]

Never heard that. Hydrogen peroxide will. I know iodine comes in lots of dilutions and some can be very harsh.
At the same time, I'm not sure you want to soak in much of anything. I think one of the tricks to healing white line is to keep it dry.

[Bluey]

Yes, it will kill some tissues, but not horse hooves, I don't think.
The warnings are for soft tissue, muscle, etc.
We used to flush abcesses with stronger solutions of iodine and were told to quit that just because of the damage that would do while desinfecting, where we wanted good tissue regenerating.

[Peg]

We quit using Betadine for humans a long while ago for that reason. The hoof must dry,dry,dry. Peg

[joiedevie99]

We got rid of betadine, some other iodine, and thrush buster at the recommendation of our vet. He said it would kill healthy tissue on cuts and cause more scar tissue to form, and that in feet (thrush) it would kill new growth. He recommended some other surgical scrub that I'm forgetting the name of.

[deltawave]

Almost any chemical can damage tissue if it's used excessively. Peroxide isn't all that bad, especially if you wash it off. Betadine is still used widely for surgical prep.

Unless a wound is really, REALLY filthy, I tend to just not add anything to it at all. If it's truly nasty, I use a dilute peroxide solution and rinse well afterwards with copious amounts of saline. Just my own personal preference--I think the body usually does A-OK without adding a lot of glop. :)

[Bluey]

My Dr used a cotton swab with betadine on my knee, before he injected it.:)
Works fine for that, just not for open wounds you want to start healing without disturbing those new cells.:yes:

[BEARCAT]

Thanks, I learned something new today!!

[Foxtrot's]

I had to flush my foal's elbow abscess with solution into which the vet had put a small amount of Betadine.

[EqTrainer]

One of my clients is a nurse and she told me to use only warm water and/or very mild saline - and ONLY if it is not going to be stitched. If it is going to be stitched, do not touch it - let the vet prep it as they wish.

No glop and goo on wounds. If they are wet, gooey type wounds a light dusting of Furacin spray (VERY LIGHT!) or better yet, the aluminum spray. Once it heals to the point of being dry and pulling, then a moisterizer like Cornescrescine to keep it supple and stimulate hair growth.

I was never one to pry things open and scrub the hell out of them so I was mightly glad to hear this :D

[JB]

Whether you use betadine, and what dilution, entirely depends on the circumstances. As with many things Horse, sometimes the pros of the situation outweigh the cons that would otherwise keep you from using X product.

In the case of infected wounds, a weak tea-looking solution of betadine may very well be necessary to flush the wound several times a day. At some point in some wounds' history, the need to kill the bad guys outweighs the risk of also killing some of the good guys.

As my vet says in these situations - as much as necessary but as little as possible :) Meaning, as dilute as possible, within reason, and for only as long as necessary.

[Calamber]

I am going to give one good case example. I had already heard that betadine was too abrasive to use full strength... so when my OTTB was put through the fence by two nasty horses he was pastured with (he reared to jump over the fence to escape then, broke the fence boards and then got hung up on the post, which, thank God, broke off). Ghastly looking wound on the side of his chest cavity. Thank goodness for racing fitness as he had well developed muscles there but.....it tore through a couple of layer of muscle, ended up being as big around as a softball and as deep as a tennis ball (about 3 - 4 inches) just missed the ribs. He also abraded his chest and one hind ankle in the process. I first washed it with a weak Betadine whereever there was blood, it looked like a puncture in the ankle so I flushed. After the stitching, all I ever washed it with was clean clear water and brewed Chamomile tea (fresh dried from Switzerland), not Constant Comment or some such.

I watched the wound shrink by the day with the proud flesh pealing off the edges as it should. I know body wounds are a lot easier than leg wounds in that regard but I was astonished. The only other thing I did was to smear the edges of the cut with zinc oxide to prevent serum burn. I was told that helped to balance the ph of the wound by one very good vet. On the chest he developed serum pockets under the skin which went from just in front of his front legs to behind the girth area, and he was swollen in his ankle from abrasions. I was told I should spend $600 to flush the puncture in the ankle just in case it had gone into the capsule. Well, I did not have an extra $600 to spend, and, I had been scrupulously clean with that wound after the initial injury, (I got to him within an hour of the incident) so I just decided I would continue to clean that wound the same and bandage it daily. Also on the serum pockets and on the swollen ankle area (not on the wound) I used Sore No More Gel. In two days the swelling on the chest and girth resolved, in three days the swelling in the ankle was nearly resolved.

Within a month the wound was totally closed and healing, by the next 2 weeks his hair had grown. Today you can barely see a dimple. I do not know what is in Chamomile tea to be such a good bactericide but I am so happy that a horse physical therapist recommended it to me as it never caused him any pain when I was tending to the wound. Happy, calm horse and happier me.:)

[FindersKeepers]

It is true, that betadine will kill healthy tissue. It is fantastic as a prep, as it won't break down skin (not that abrasive) but will kill all surface cells. But in an open wound, it will kill off healthy cells and bad ones.

I actually heard this the first time on Oprah, and asked my doctor and my vet. Both said wounds should be rinsed with clean water or saline, and then keep them clean and let the body work. Betadine or peroxide may be a good idea if there is obvious debris in a small wound for the initial cleaning, but after that just saline or water or you will undo the progress.

I now have only a small bottle of betadine in the cupboard, and a large bag of saline. I've been doing this for a year and honestly, the wounds have been healing a lot faster. (my paperthin skin TB mare always has a little nick or scratch somewhere)

[JB]

Sure, for the every day average sort of nick/cut, I agree - leave the betadine for a first wash if necessary, but after that it can be counterproductive.

But in the case of a deeper, infected wound, then along with antibiotics you often need to flush with a much more diluted solution of betadine several times a day.

[deltawave]

will kill all surface cells

Just to clarify, it will kill MANY surface BACTERIA. Doesn't do any harm to healthy, intact skin.

[camohn]

My Dr used a cotton swab with betadine on my knee, before he injected it.:)
Works fine for that, just not for open wounds you want to start healing without disturbing those new cells.:yes:

That about covers it!

[tpup]

I find this all very odd (about Betadine). My horse had two leg wounds this past year. Consulted with vet on both (I would say one of the top, if not top vet practices in our area...). Felt spraying with Betadine (spray bottle) and applying Triple A. cream daily was fine. One of the wounds was down my horse's "shin" bone on a hind and pretty wide but not enough for stitches. Everything healed fine, hair grew back. No "eating away" at healthy tissue. I'll definitely ask them about it next time, but it worked great for us.

[JER]

Betadine is cytotoxic unless diluted to 1:10.

(If you want to know more about the specific studies that show this, go to PubMed or just do some googling.)

So if you feel you need to use it, always dilute. But modern wound care protocols take a flush with water or saline approach.

[merrygoround]

True? False? Explain?

Turns out my horse has white line disease, and while waiting for the good stuff to arrive, I wanted to soak his hooves. I thought about using some Betadine in warm water, but was told not to since it may "kill off healthy tissues...?"

With white line disease you are not dealing with normal tissue.Here you want to almost cauterize things, The best thing is to have your farrier pare everything back to good tissue, and then use your iodine tincture. Some even use the 7% sol. the name of which escapes me. I'll capture it at midnight. :lol: :lol:

Lugols solution--I didn't have to wait til midnight.

[Foxtrot's]

This is totally off topic, but is about Betadine. My daxie had "flea allergies" for years. Vets couldn't help him. Never actually saw fleas on him, but he must have had some bites.
Had all the expensive treatments, pills etc. He just kept scratching, chewing, rolling at the base of his tail. Then I washed him with Betadine scrub, and again a few days later. He's healed up and never looked back for a couple of years now. Some little 'something'
or parasite from the fleas had got into his skin and the Betadine fixed it. So simple.

[amastrike]

Most common things that are good for killing bacteria will kill good tissue. I do a first cleaning with betadine or something similar, and any further fussing is with something very mild, like saline. At the start, I figure it's more important to make sure there's nothing nasty in there. Once that's taken care of, just take care of the good tissue.

[creseida]

I use Betadine for initial wound cleaning, but once I've cleaned the wound out, I just keep it clean and dry. Iodine is harsh for continued use, but for the initial wound cleaning it is fine.

[ZiggyStardust]

I've been fighting thrush with my gelding for quite a while due to the wet conditions much of the year in our neck of the woods. I am fearful of it progressing to white line disease. I found the OTC thrush treatments to be pretty caustic to the frog with repeated applications, so I decided to try sugardine (povidine-iodine mixed with sugar, applied to the sole, no soaking). It was very effective with one application but definitely sensitized his frog/soles for a couple of days. He wasn't lame at all but for sure let me know his feet felt a little funny when I picked them out. He is also not the most stoic representative of his species ;) but at least I know when something doesn't agree with him!

So it seemed the sugardine was very effective, and maybe less caustic overall because it didn't require so many applications but I would still dilute it next time since obviously it was affecting the healthly hoof, too. Honestly, the best treatment so far was our snow, ice, and freezing weather, which seemed to keep his feet cleaner naturally and froze the infection out and then back to keeping his feet as dry and clean (just with picking and brushing, no chemicals or soaking) as possible since.