working farm dog breeders (heelers, kelpies, aussies) -- OK -- outside midatlantic

[cbv]

I edited to expand search area since I didn't get many responses...

Heelers, kelpies, working aussies, maybe farm collies?

I have a BC and a heeler. I have had two other BC's and am very comfortable with them. This is my first heeler and actually folks on this board scared the bejesus out of me after I got him as a puppy and asked about them as farm dogs. Fortunately he has turned out to be a great dog but I am sensitive to the issues others have had with them and don't discount those experiences. We have been thinking about getting another but if we do am concerned about getting a puppy from someone reputable and with adults I can meet and observe for temperament etc.

I have never met a kelpie in person but am intrigued. Also haven't known many aussies but the one I did know was great. We like the herding dogs for our current circumstances, although we have had a variety of breeds over time.

[cbv]

changed title to be more precise...

[gloriginger]

My friend has two Kelpies - she imported them from Australia. The female is great, kind of goofie, very personable- strong herding instincts. The male is very intense, great herding dog- so much so that the herding instructor won't let her work the dog - b/c she is too inexperienced. He is dog aggressive, and not very personable. So I guess they can vary in tempermant.

I know of some good border collie breeders, but I don't see that on your list! I also know of some good Aussie breeders, but personally if I were getting an aussie for herding I would look at farms out west- I think you get better working lines. Most of the breeders I know in the east are for show type dogs- some can work out as good herding dogs or competition dogs, but there are some differences in the older out west working lines and the stock that comes from the show lines. You could talk to the breeder and tell them what you want- the ones I know wuld be able to judge the dogs temperment and get you the one you want.

I have an aussie/ACD that is the product of two working ranch dogs in Arizona and she is an amazing dog. So smart, friendly etc.

[cbv]

I have a good local BC breeder that we got our others from and if we go for another BC will most likely get another from her.

I actually don't use the dogs for herding -- companions around the farm mostly, hiking around the trails and fields, some agility -- but like to get them from working lines rather than show lines. My experience so far with the BC's is the biddability trumps any problems I might have with strong herding drive and that drive to herd is easily transfered to other activities. But they are also a little more high energy particularly the one we have now.


The cattle dog I have to watch a little more closely re: herding the horses-- for instance if we are out and about in the barn yard and the horses lie down or roll he hates that and wants to go get them up -- but will listen to me when I tell him to leave it. I wouldn't leave him around the barn at will without me there. But they don't roam at will without us anyway. Otherwise, although he has plenty of energy he is more laid back than the BC.

I have never bought a dog or horse long-distance and find it somewhat intimidating.

[gloriginger]

well, I know this is not mid atlantic, and she does breed for show- Emmy really knows her aussies, she is an ASCA judge. If you old her what you wanted- she would pick out the right dog for you.

I do agility with my dog, and when the time comes to get another I will most likely get one from Emmy. She does have pups right now- but it seems she has them pretty frequently. MA probably isn't that far from you...if not, she might know a breeder in your area for an Aussie.

http://www.terrablue.net/litters08gxs.html

[llsc]

If you are looking for a great Border Collie, my mom runs a Border Collie Rescue called Friends of Pep. She always has lovely Borders, Cattle Dogs and Aussies for adoption. Many times they have papers. Give her a call if you would be interested, ask for Kate 570-842-4768. She's located in the Poconos, in PA.

[camohn]

Depends on what work! We had a Golden that was really good at killing groundhogs. He got too old to kill hogs and in only 2 years the hog population just exploded here. Our neighbor came and shot some of them....but there were pots.......
And then we got an Irish Setter pup. We got her because hubby had one in college and had a hankering for another Setter when the Golden looked like he was at the end of his days. Much to my amazement the Setter is even BETTER at hog hunting! She was bred by a local farmer. Our dude that has the kennel we go to (and has a string of show dogs too....) said she has lovely confo for a setter but not nearly as much long hair as a typical show dog and a calmer temperment......so he bets she was bred to be a working hunting dog and not a show dog.

[fancyponies]

I am not in the mid-Atlantic, I am a long-time breeder of Australian Cattle Dogs, purebred and Canadian Kennel Club Registered from Ontario Canada. Did you have some questions you wanted answered? I have two 2 month puppies available now, as well as some older retiring dogs looking for homes. We also have sport horses, Welsh Section B ponies, and are a working farm raising cattle and organic grains, so will try to help answer your dog/livestock queries. Send any questions or enquiries that you wish to address privately to me at baywolfblu at yahoo dot com (remove spaces. Baywolf Kennels

[mjrtango93]

I have a Kelpie cross. He is ancient now (about to turn 15), and only has 3 legs (accident with a drunk driver when he was 5) but is seriously the best dog I could ever have gotten. They are an intense breed so be ready for some serious energy! Sydney is kelpie and australian shepherd about 37#, not an ounce of fat on him. He is very sweet and loyal, completely non-dog aggressive, not terribly fond of children but will simply remove himself from the room if he has reached his threshhold, great protector but is a bit wary/protective if new people are around. Syd is a bit racist but we got him as a rescue that had been beaten and then dumped, so I think it has to do more with that. Like I said busy minded though, when he still had 4 legs would run around on the hill for hours on end chasings the shadows of the hawks flying around, could get himself in trouble for chasing the occasional cow, and is OCD/ADHD about balls and toys to this day. Can't say enough good things about him, when he finally goes (hopefully has a while left) I want another kelpie, just fantastic dogs.

[RockingN]

I was looking for an aussie breeder recently too before I decided on getting a mini. Anyway though, I found an awesome aussie breeder in florida who has working lines and awesome working dogs! Their website isn't that nice but their dogs sure are! Not sure if Florida is too far for you but i'd consider them! They are expecting a litter soon!
http://www.fourmileaussies.com/

if you're interested PM me and I'll dig up their number for you! Its hard to find lol

[cbv]

FancyPonies I will send you an email.

But keep the responses coming...

[Drummerboy]

Border Collies and Heelers have two very different herding styles, one was bred for sheep one for cattle, primarily. BC's have finesse Heeler's are prone to a more "have at em" style. Both get the job done, just using a different technique. Any breed bred to do a job and coming from that line, really needs a job. The BC's are notorious for fixating on things if they don't have something to keep the brain busy. Heelers can be great dogs, we have one who is super, but, any of the breeds you listed can be tough.

We have had two male aussie's, both from working lines. Utterly devoted to the family, helped our baby daughter grow up, not so good with UPS men, people coming over...fine away from home, but they did their job, took care of the family. One died from it, chasing a coyote away, across a road. (may I add here he went through a screened in porch to do this...) The breeder link on her by Gloriginger is a good one, she has very nice dogs.

I would stay away from a full coated collie, think mud, burs etc in that coat. Unless you wanted a smooth coat. I have not known any that were "farm dogs", just pets.

You are already familiar with your current breeds, remember, males and females differ in temperment, that will also be a factor in bringing home a new pup. Three intense breeds can be a handful, a word to the wise here...we have four! (I do not suggest 4, not does my long suffering husband!) Three can be doable, four rather kicks it over the top!

Good luck and I would really do a Petfinder search and see what you come up with. The shelters in rural areas are packed with Aussie, Catahoula, BC and Heeler's, please consider that when looking.

(just heard we have FOUR SPCA's closing in March up here, very sad...)

[Cielo Azure]

I really like SlashV Australian Shepherds. Her prices are very reasonable and her dogs are some of the best in the country.

http://users.htcomp.net/slashv/

She will ship anywhere and her dogs work.

[cbv]

Your points are well taken. I think one reason the two we have work so well together in our household is the differences between them. And we just love this heeler -- but I am a little hesitant to get another because I worry that they will feed off each other a little -- our current one is not 'hard' at all, very submissive, but I can see where a dog with his traits but a more independent streak could be harder to deal with. He is much more laid back than the BC, and very much loyal and attached to us. But fine with others just not as affectionate off the bat, needs to warm up on his own schedule. We worked very consciously to socialize him primarily because he was a shy puppy.

This is our third BC. So easy in many ways -- he is fixed on the 'ball', not the livestock -- which is fine. He is a clown and very high energy -- but very biddable and friendly and entertains guests and all the nieces and nephews. We say he is an attention 'whore' -- would hapily go with anyone willing to play with him and throw the ball. But I don't know if I want two that are that wound up.

Thus the quandary. We have had several other breeds over the years -- including Great Danes and Borzoi's -- but are happy now with a more compact, easier traveling, companions now. I have thought about trying to get something from a different 'group' of dogs but want the biddability/trainability of the herding dogs. Have thought about some kind of hunting dog -- eg gun dogs like pointers (which I had as a kid), not hounds.

However I did just go on the website of the BC breeder we know -- cute red pup on there :)

[Drummerboy]

I adore Borzois! One to think about, an Old English Sheepdog. I have known two, both males at two different farms and they were lovable, sweet, a bit goofy and just very endearing. Sebastien and Oliver were the names! Perhaps a possibility! Both were super with the horses, kids, john q public...

[Romany]

A corgi is historically a herding dog, too - might be a fun addition to the pack!

[smokygirl]

A friend of mine has smooth collies. They are awesome farm dogs. He had one go to westminster a year or two ago. The same dog, is out on the farm patrolling the barn and collecting pettings from visitors. (and is just as gorgeous as when he was showing :)). anyway, they do breed a few.. the farm is www.conwayarabians.com. (I'm not sure how much info on the collies is their though).

[Nancy!]

We are on our second Cattle dog now. Our first boy was amazing and loved everyone and everything. Yes, he was cattle dog independent but an amazing dog. He even won over some people who didn't like them enough so they got ones of their own.

Our current ACD is a girl and I find her tougher. She is out to prove something to just about every dog. She is a great dog though and she will not be out last.

I find that ACD are not for everyone but if you like them, you love them.

Nancy!

[Shazunite]

I was not interested in working in dog breeders farm. My dude was interested in this. I will show this to him and if was really interested I will make him to contact you as early as possible.

[threedogpack]

what are the characteristics you are looking for?

[TheOtherHorse]

We just bought a 6 week old ACD from a breeder in Kentucky yesterday. Registered, from good working stock lines. Sire and dam's sire/dam/other family were on site and all built beautifully with no detectable lameness or conformation defects, plus very friendly and seem to have great temperaments. Litter of 10, blues and reds. Lovely dogs.

This is our 3rd cattle dog. LOVE the breed. So far (just 12 hours, lol) the puppy shows remarkable intelligence, braveness, and is a very friendly little guy.

If you want the breeder's info, I think there are still 8 left to choose from... :D

[cloudyandcallie]

If you are looking for a great Border Collie, my mom runs a Border Collie Rescue called Friends of Pep. She always has lovely Borders, Cattle Dogs and Aussies for adoption. Many times they have papers. Give her a call if you would be interested, ask for Kate 570-842-4768. She's located in the Poconos, in PA.

Great idea. Unless you are going to buy an expensive dog from a top breeder, it's a good idea to look at the rescues. Most rescues will let you take a dog home and "try it out" with your dogs and cats for compatiblilty.

I'm glad your dog worked out, OP. Cattle dogs are different from Aussies. But both are great. Herding dogs are all so smart. And the 1/2 breeds are smart also.
If you want to spring for a great Aussie, Las Rocosa Australian Shepherds is the place to go. They wrote the books. And Elaine Hartnagle's father had aussies before they were aussies.

[spinandslide]

If you decide on Aussie..please please please research the breeder and lines CAREFULLY..I have met recently more ill tempered (aggressive or timid) aussies in the past few years then I can remember in the past.

There was a very nice farm in Maryland who bred heelers..we looked into them when I was looking for my male back in 2000..Three Run Kennels if I remember right? they didnt have any pups at that time..so we ended up going to M-M in Florida..she now does only border collies though.

I dont have experience with kelpies.

[cowboymom]

There's a great rescue for herding dogs in WY, a local trainer always has one of their dogs fostered.

http://www.herdofwy.com/

[dangerbunny]

Surprised to see no one mention English Shepherds, they make excellent farm dogs. My mom has one who is just an amazing dog and she just got another puppy who is turning out super. I am hoping to get one in the next couple years, although mine will have a less exciting life then my mom's dogs since we only have horses and not sheep and cows to herd.

http://www.englishshepherd.org/

[cloudyandcallie]

Surprised to see no one mention English Shepherds, they make excellent farm dogs. My mom has one who is just an amazing dog and she just got another puppy who is turning out super. I am hoping to get one in the next couple years, although mine will have a less exciting life then my mom's dogs since we only have horses and not sheep and cows to herd.

http://www.englishshepherd.org/

English shepherds are great! I've known 2 of them over the years. Any herding dog is great. Remember German Shepherds used to be sheep herders.

And even though collie breeders have bred for those long noses, those dogs can still herd. Ask Lauraky who just adopted a collie from a rescue. Riley herded some heifer out of Laura's pasture the other day.:lol:

My person preference is the Australian Shepherd. But I used to go to the national sheepdog trials up in Dawsonville, GA., and all the dogs performing there were border collies. Very fast over mountain terrain.

My breeders, the Hartnagles of Las Rocosa, work their aussies on everything from ducks to bison.

[cloudyandcallie]

There's a great rescue for herding dogs in WY, a local trainer always has one of their dogs fostered.

http://www.herdofwy.com/

Oh wow! I just looked at those available dogs and they are great! Lots of great mixes and at least one purebred. And even though I'm not a golden fan, that mix with aussie is adorable. If my 2 oldest cats weren't 18 yoa, I'd get the aussie and one aussie mix now. Someone get those dogs. I'll help with shipping. And hmm, I think I still have a shipping crate somewhere.

[cowboymom]

I always see at least one dog on their page that I want! I have five right now so am MAXED out! My oldest dog is a golden/aussie cross of some sort (from the pound) and she's been a wonderful dog.

[Polydor]

I have a Kelpie cross. He is ancient now (about to turn 15), and only has 3 legs (accident with a drunk driver when he was 5) but is seriously the best dog I could ever have gotten. They are an intense breed so be ready for some serious energy! Sydney is kelpie and australian shepherd about 37#, not an ounce of fat on him. He is very sweet and loyal, completely non-dog aggressive, not terribly fond of children but will simply remove himself from the room if he has reached his threshhold, great protector but is a bit wary/protective if new people are around. Syd is a bit racist but we got him as a rescue that had been beaten and then dumped, so I think it has to do more with that. Like I said busy minded though, when he still had 4 legs would run around on the hill for hours on end chasings the shadows of the hawks flying around, could get himself in trouble for chasing the occasional cow, and is OCD/ADHD about balls and toys to this day. Can't say enough good things about him, when he finally goes (hopefully has a while left) I want another kelpie, just fantastic dogs.

Yup this describes a lot of kelpies that i have met. Super super super smart! Pretty intense but does loosen up when they get to know you. Very loyal and I would probably say more of a one person dog. The one I know best ( known him for 2 years) i have seen climb a ladder to get to dad (owner).Not a single ounce of fat on him and he's not working everyday either! Does chill out but could and can go all day easy working sheep ( big merino sheep). He earns his keep for sure and gets paid in high quality dog food! :D

Would love to have one but boss won't allow me to have one with the horses and sheep around but will probably bring one home for me after i have my co-worker train it for me. :D

One thought would be to find a working dog breeder but request one that has less of a working drive. From what I have seen most breeders will sell the pups with a garantee that they will be good working dogs and if not then they can be returned. So the breeders may have a few "rejects" that need homes. Then you still have the quality just not the drive.

P.

[crosscreeksh]

I checked out the English Shepherds and they seem like really fun dogs!! We don't have any stock to herd, but we have enjoyed our BC/Jack Russell over the years. Not hyper or snappy with the horses and smart as a whip!! She's getting on in years and I would seriously consider an ES when we need a farm dog. There are three breeders right here in Oklahoma. Any dog sides to them?? We are stay at home/hands on folks with 80 acres - horses, donkeys, dogs, farm cats.

[SMF11]

I have an english shepherd!

I believe the lines are important with them, some are known to be tougher than others.

[dangerbunny]

What I like about the English Shepherds is they are still being bred as a working breed as opposed to just show dogs, so fit in very well on a small farm or as a family dog. I think some lines are more herding oriented but most breeders breed for biddable and intelligent animals.

The ones I have met are extremely smart and sociable, they tend to be protective of family and livestock and really enjoy their family. I have also heard they can be super agility dogs.

disclaimer
Not saying a show bred dog can't be nice.

[Bluey]

If you don't want a very serious and over the top active dog, don't get a serious working border collie or much less the even tighter wound kelpie.
Not fair to the dogs.
Get a more laid back dog, that won't mind not working at all, be a companion going along with you only.

Working dogs are bred to love to herd and it is a shame not to train and use them for that.
Unlike most horses, that are just as happy out to pasture than working, serious working dogs really are only happy working.

You can train for agility or any of all those other activities out there, that can work, but a herding dog that turns on to stock is not happy if not working.

I see way too many neurotic herding dogs in trainer's barns, where they run back and forth all day behind a fence, wanting to work so hard, but yelled at every time they try to work.:(

[Simbalism]

I have a mini aussie that is a nice little dog(breeder in Va). She has a high herding drive, so I don't let her run around at the farm where my horse lives(at least not right at the barn). She loves going for walks in the woods and we are working on recall and other obedience commands. She is very happy accompanying me to the barn, going for walks, and playing with her many toys. She is very active, and sometimes creates her own toys(bottles from recycling bin, sticks from the kindling basket, and tp cardboard rolls from recycling)Once she is a little better with her off leash work, I am planning on trying some other activities with her, herding, maybe agility, and possibly tracking. She has a very sweet and loving nature, and while a little shy at first meeting someone, usually warms right up to them if they don't try to grab or pet her. She's definitely a "let me sniff you first" type dog.

[cloudyandcallie]

Well I told a cother friend about the wyoming herding dog website. She's trying to adopt a cattle dog from there. She'll be out west next month or so, so maybe she can get the dog.

As for herding dogs needing to be on a ranch, forget it! I kept my aussies in a subdivision in Atlanta for over 20 yrs. And my dogs came from breeders who worked their dogs as well as showed them bench. Aussies are smart dogs. They expended their energy in a fenced yard, and in Atlanta parks and at Lake Lanier. And I never got burglarized. Aussies are very protective of their yards and houses and cars. And every time I sneaked a peek at them when having to go up to Roswell, I'd find them all lying up in our bed asleep with the A/C blasting away.

I even had my 2nd aussie in an apt in St Louis for the first year of her life. She did have an older English Cocker to play with. And that big stuffed chair that she ate. Plus I walked her every day. And she got to play in Forrest Park.

[TheOtherHorse]

As for herding dogs needing to be on a ranch, forget it!

Agreed. We had 2 farm raised cattle dogs and moved into a small apartment for 2 years while moving to KY. No problem. The dogs never seemed stressed, no behavior problems, happy as ever. I did take them to the boarding barn with me a couple times a week to run free, but we didn't go on long walks or even to the dog park. With cattle dogs, they are happy as long as they are with their person. It doesn't matter what you're doing or where, they just want to be with you. :yes:

[Bluey]

Well I told a cother friend about the wyoming herding dog website. She's trying to adopt a cattle dog from there. She'll be out west next month or so, so maybe she can get the dog.

As for herding dogs needing to be on a ranch, forget it! I kept my aussies in a subdivision in Atlanta for over 20 yrs. And my dogs came from breeders who worked their dogs as well as showed them bench. Aussies are smart dogs. They expended their energy in a fenced yard, and in Atlanta parks and at Lake Lanier. And I never got burglarized. Aussies are very protective of their yards and houses and cars. And every time I sneaked a peek at them when having to go up to Roswell, I'd find them all lying up in our bed asleep with the A/C blasting away.

I even had my 2nd aussie in an apt in St Louis for the first year of her life. She did have an older English Cocker to play with. And that big stuffed chair that she ate. Plus I walked her every day. And she got to play in Forrest Park.

Those are not working border collies or kelpies.

There are some border collies that are laid back, but most are not happy if not working, end up staring at cracks in the ground of puffs of dirt, or chasing their tails, or snapping at non-existing flies.

Aussies are great working dogs, but you will see few winning open herding competitions.
There is a reason most top herding dogs are border collies, with some kelpies, but those are not that common yet in the USA.

[cloudyandcallie]

Well, a certain cother, not me, has filled out her application to get one of those dogs! I hope this works out for her and for her.

[spinandslide]

Those are not working border collies or kelpies.

There are some border collies that are laid back, but most are not happy if not working, end up staring at cracks in the ground of puffs of dirt, or chasing their tails, or snapping at non-existing flies.

Aussies are great working dogs, but you will see few winning open herding competitions.
There is a reason most top herding dogs are border collies, with some kelpies, but those are not that common yet in the USA.

This is all true...

I know I can tell when weather has kept us from working..my border collies are climbing the walls..Ive determined muddy paws are easier to deal with then un worked BC.

[2Jakes]

This thread has been great! All except now I am kind of on pins and needles because I really like one of the Wyoming dogs and I am waaaay too far away :(. If it weren't winter it would be much easier :sigh:...driving to Wyoming in January could get pretty sporty...

Lol, Anyone know anyone from out west there who might be headed to Wellington? (Or *anywhere* closer to Florida?)

....it never hurts to ask :winkgrin:...

[Murphy's Mom]

There's a great rescue for herding dogs in WY, a local trainer always has one of their dogs fostered.
http://www.herdofwy.com/
Am bookmarking this page for the future. I've got four ACDs right now so not looking for another but would love to take Concho or Elle home! Elle actually looks like a Stumpy Tailed Cattle Dog.

[rustbreeches]

Our neighbor just bred their heeler for another litter. Both parents are working dogs. We got our heeler bitch from them and she is great with the kids and never leaves the property. Also, my friend has a litter of Blues right now, available to new homes mid-Jan I think. PM if you have more questions. We are in CO