When to be concerned-Switching to barefoot

[daisyfields]

I recently switched my horse to barefoot, probably about a month ago. She has doing very well, no soreness and healthy hoof growth. Since it rained and everything turned to ice I've become a bit concerned. It's probably nothing, but I always worry whenever something has to do with my horse. Her right hoof has a crack/chip and the growth on the bottom of her hoof there looks a bit funny because of some chipping. However, she was moving fine and showed no signs of being sore. I know without a picture you can't tell me anything(I will get one tomorrow), but for know I'd just like to know when to start worrying about a crack/chip from switching. Anyone who has made the switch or is knowledgeable about feet have any insight?

[irishcas]

There are a few factors that contribute to chips and cracks. Without a pix I'll assume you are speaking of a chip, cuz thats what you called it :)

I usually don't do much to a foot on the day I pull shoes. If the horse has thin walls due to bad trimming while shod, you will get some chipping It's not a big deal, especially if your horse is still moving well :D

IOW, don't worry.

If it's a crack thats slightly different depending on what type of crack, it might need to be opened up a bit and treated for a fungus.

Pictures please

[ThoroughbredFancy]

My TB recently transitioned to barefoot. (A month and a half ago)

He is now starting to chip a bit since the nail holes are growing out but it does not affect his soundness. Perhaps this is what is happening with your horse?

[BuddyRoo]

Going barefoot does NOT mean that a horse has to be uncomfortable.

However, if you had shoes on as recently as a month ago, the hoof wall has been compromised where the nail holes were and a little chipping is not uncommon. Best remedy for this is more frequent trims to bevel it off and not allow the hoof wall to be getting torqued out.

Without pics, hard to say...and I am not a farrier nor do I play one on TV...

[daisyfields]

I got some pictures of her feet today. I can't really describe the weird growing, so I took plenty of pictures.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8265.jpg

Front right:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8266.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8296.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8268.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8269.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8270.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8282.jpg
Crack/chip. It chipped, but is still atached to the hoof, kind of like a hangnail. Sorry for the bad description.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8271.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8272.jpg
From the bottom. You can also see the weird growth here a bit.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8274.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8300.jpg

Left foot:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8280.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8294.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8281.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8283.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8284.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8285.jpg
(In those last few pictures it kind of looks like there's a huge hole in her hoof. It's actually a small chip; the shadow just made it look huge.)
The weird growth. It's not on her entire foot, just parts around the edges, and only her front feet. There's more on this foor and it's easier to see.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8286.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8287.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8288.jpg

A couple of her back feet on the ground. Not really having any issues with these feet. They are both half white and half black. Her fronts are entirely black.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8290.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8291.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8292.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8293.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8297.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c171/summernigtsdream/IMG_8298.jpg

[Melelio]

That chip looks to be nail holes, like was stated before. A little rasping it off wouldn't hurt, but it doesn't look like a crack.

The 'weird growth' looks to be compromised laminae, from stretching at some point. Also looks like the hoof wall is pretty long right now for barefoot. How long has it been since a trim? Also looks like the sole was pared down a bunch, and the bars are long.

Time for the trimmer to come out again, IMHO...

[BornToRide]

Like other have said, it is common for hooves to chip a bit if they have just come out of shoes, because of the nail holes.

I am glad she's doing so well. If you have not already, I would also get her some boots, so you have them in case you need them . :yes:

Some of the quarters and toes look a bit long to me though......

[Thomas_1]

It looks to me like your horse has hoof wall separation and quite a bit of periferal chipping and splitting. Her heels look way underrun. The heels are chasing the toes! Looks like she's laid way back on her pasterns and could benefit from a decent trim.

When did you last have her done?

[irishcas]

For coming out of shoes, what 30 - 45 days ago the feet look fine.

Yup Thomas is right on all accounts, but that would more than likely be why you came out of shoes no? :D

Remember what you are reading on the bottom of the foot is old news, in regards to that separation.

A good roll is needed, but would go a bit slow if you are doing it without boots.

[Thomas_1]

Yup Thomas is right on all accounts, but that would more than likely be why you came out of shoes no? :D

No. It would be a reason to find someone who could come at the right frequency and do a good trimming job! Removing shoes isn't going to make a poorly balanced hoof in need of a trim suddenly right.

Contrary to the opinion of some on this BB, barefoot isn't a magical cure for poor conformation, poor footform, poor trimming and a footcare routine that might not be frequent enough.

[daisyfields]

That chip looks to be nail holes, like was stated before. A little rasping it off wouldn't hurt, but it doesn't look like a crack.

The 'weird growth' looks to be compromised laminae, from stretching at some point. Also looks like the hoof wall is pretty long right now for barefoot. How long has it been since a trim? Also looks like the sole was pared down a bunch, and the bars are long.

Time for the trimmer to come out again, IMHO...

It's been four weeks since the last farrier visit. I feel better now though. I'd never seen something like that before.

[BornToRide]

Yes, Thomas, but if you commonly converted shod hooves to barefoot you'd notice that most, if not all, shod horses' hooves tend to be pulled more forward into a more elongated shape, like this one was too:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Popelina/RipleyRFSoleOct06-Jan09.jpg

[daisyfields]

Like other have said, it is common for hooves to chip a bit if they have just come out of shoes, because of the nail holes.

I am glad she's doing so well. If you have not already, I would also get her some boots, so you have them in case you need them . :yes:

Some of the quarters and toes look a bit long to me though......

I did pick up some boots if needed. I thought her feet looked long, but thought it was just me. They've never grown this fast before; could be from switching? Usually every 7 weeks in the winter is good, but she seems to be growing faster now.

[Auventera Two]

I would not worry about the chipping, that is normal when growing out nail holes. The heels are VERY underrun and your quarters are jammed.

I disagree with Kim that the feet look fine "for having come out of shoes 30-45 days ago." The hooves shown show unbalanced trimming for a long time, having nothing to do with the shoes.

GOOD shoeing does not cause underrun heels. Poor trimming and shoeing and/or long cycles do.

In my experience, hooves do tend to put out more/faster growth if the balance is changed. The farrier did right by not trimming too short right after removing shoes. Usually I just round up the walls so they don't break out, then I come back in 2 or 3 weeks and do more of a trim, but still not what I would do for a horse with good feet that have been bare a long time. The third trim is scheduled in another 4 weeks or so, then after that the horse gets onto the normal 6 week cycle.

I think people get into HUGE trouble with "transitioning" to barefoot because they yank shoes, and trim the hoof back to make it "look like a mustang foot" but neither the hoof nor the soft tissue can deal with that drastic of a change, and that much pressure on the sole and frog.

When I take shoes off, I do the trimming gradually and horses don't get sore. Even if it means leaving toes too long and the hoof looking "bad" for a couple of months. That's much better than trimming the hooves short and pretty and making them "look like a mustang foot" and then the poor beast can't even walk.

Getting boots is definitely a good idea.

[BornToRide]

I did pick up some boots if needed. I thought her feet looked long, but thought it was just me. They've never grown this fast before; could be from switching? Usually every 7 weeks in the winter is good, but she seems to be growing faster now. It could be either that and more stimulation fostering growth or perhaps the seasonal spring growth is already kicking in. As you may know, hooves tend to grow more in spring and summer. :)


GOOD shoeing does not cause underrun heels. Poor trimming and shoeing and/or long cycles do.
I disagree - even good shoeing can cause the hoof to run forward, especially if the hoof has that tendency to start with, thanks to thinner hoof walls. Hooves with thicker hoofwall are generally much less affected in this respect and tend to maintain better shape even in shoes. I bet those are generally referrred to as the "better" shod horses, when in fact the hoof horn strength is the contributing factor.

[daisyfields]

It looks to me like your horse has hoof wall separation and quite a bit of periferal chipping and splitting. Her heels look way underrun. The heels are chasing the toes! Looks like she's laid way back on her pasterns and could benefit from a decent trim.

When did you last have her done?

Forgive my ignorance, but what happens with hoof wall separation, and where can I see it the pictures? As for last done, it has been four weeks.

[daisyfields]

No. It would be a reason to find someone who could come at the right frequency and do a good trimming job! Removing shoes isn't going to make a poorly balanced hoof in need of a trim suddenly right.

Contrary to the opinion of some on this BB, barefoot isn't a magical cure for poor conformation, poor footform, poor trimming and a footcare routine that might not be frequent enough.

Please, I'm really looking for honest opinions so I would appreciate if everyone could maybe hold back their thirst for blood for once and not turn this into a barefoot/shod argument. Thank You.

I know conformation, but not much about conformation of the hoof. What are the issues she has besides what was already mentioned?

[Auventera Two]

I disagree - even good shoeing can cause the hoof to run forward, especially if the hoof has that tendency to start with, thanks to thinner hoof walls. Hooves with thicker hoofwall are generally much less affected in this respect and tend to maintain better shape even in shoes. I bet those are generally referrred to as the "better" shod horses, when in fact the hoof horn strength is the contributing factor.

I disagree with most of what you post, and this is no exception.

[daisyfields]

I would not worry about the chipping, that is normal when growing out nail holes. The heels are VERY underrun and your quarters are jammed.


I feel so dumb, but what does "quarters are jammed" mean, and hat can I do to help her heels and quarters?

[BornToRide]

I disagree with most of what you post, and this is no exception.
That's too bad - you should visit DR. John's website in the UK - lots of good pictures that show the difference in hoof form between thicker and thinner hoof walls. http://www.johnthevet.com/

Plus, like I said, I keep seeing this tendency in most horses that came out of shoes. I currently trim 2 Tenn Walkers, both usually wear shoes in the summer, both have forward pulled hooves. However one is worse than the other. Guess who's the one who's not so bad. Right, the one with thicker hoof walls :winkgrin:

[BornToRide]

I feel so dumb, but what does "quarters are jammed" mean, and hat can I do to help her heels and quarters?The jamming usually comes from quarters that are left too long, jamming the hairline up. Once they are trimmed correctly, this should no longer be an issue.

[Thomas_1]

Yes, Thomas, but if you commonly converted shod hooves to barefoot you'd notice that most, if not all, shod horses' hooves tend to be pulled more forward into a more elongated shape, like this one was too:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/Popelina/RipleyRFSoleOct06-Jan09.jpg Yet more crap pouring from your fingers and born from your limited experience!

Aside from the nonsense about shod horses being more forward and elongated which is utter tosh, I've probably got more horses barefoot right now than you've ever owned!

[Auventera Two]

While wall thickness is definitely affected by incorrect vs. correct trimming, there is a significant genetic component which trimmers was to ignore. The number of pappilae is different on every horse. Less pappilae, less tubules, less tubules, thinner hoof wall.

You can increase wall thickness to some degree through proper stimulus, diet, and environment, but lets be real. Genetics are what they are.

[BornToRide]

While wall thickness is definitely affected by incorrect vs. correct trimming, there is a significant genetic component which trimmers was to ignore. The number of pappilae is different on every horse. Less pappilae, less tubules, less tubules, thinner hoof wall.

You can increase wall thickness to some degree through proper stimulus, diet, and environment, but lets be real. Genetics are what they are.
However, when you trim horses you might also often notice that one side is thicker than the other (medial or lateral). Usually the side that is loaded slightly ahead of the other, tends to be thicker and wears more, which leads me to believe that the stimulation and increase in load causes that. Horses who will load their hooves evenly, also tend to have more even hoof wall thickness all the way around.

Note - this assumes hooves are trimmed with even medio-lateral balance that changes over time due to how the horse tends to load a hoof. It can often easily be seen in hinds, that have a tendency to slightly flare to the outside in most horses because they are generally slightly toed out and therefore tend to load the medial edge slightly before the lateral edge makes ground contact.

If you don't believe me, closely watch several horses move at the walk and observe how they each load the hooves.

[Rienzi]

What's with the rasping on the outside of the hooves that I'm seeing in these pictures? (You might have to look close up.)

Daisy, I don't really have a dog in this fight and I am definitely no expert. I did go barefoot with my OTTB and he was not uncomfortable, even on gravel. His hooves were very long and had overrun the shoes for months before I got him (which is I believe why he abscessed in the front -- his feet had not been tended to in a while) so I asked the farrier/trimmer to adjust gradually, which he did, and now they are pretty darn good feet.

It looks like your horse needs a trim sooner rather than later. Assuming your trimmer is trying to gradually achieve a more normal hoof, you may need to have him out more frequently until the new growth comes down.

Have you seen your trimmer's work on horses he has been doing for a while? How do those feet look?

[irishcas]

I disagree with Kim that the feet look fine "for having come out of shoes 30-45 days ago." The hooves shown show unbalanced trimming for a long time, having nothing to do with the shoes.


We have to stop worrying about who did what to the foot prior. The foot is a typical OTTB looking foot. It looks fine, just in need of a trim, and of COURSE Thomas, it should be done by someone that is good at what they do :)

Vicky, are you suggesting that the run forward, long toes can be fixed in one trim? I guess you could put a better "looking" foot on this horse at one try and make her sore :eek: Now I know you are not saying that, I look at your site, you do a good job trimming.

Trimming on a 5 week basis will shape the foot to a more healthy form. Separation is old news of some form of laminitis, mechanical/diet, blah blah blah. Make note of it, put a good trim on, use boots when necessary and keep the horse sound and moving.

OP said, horse is moving well, so thats good.