alfalfa is alfalfa is alfalfa?

[pintopiaffe]

Is there anything other than stem length different about alfalfa cubes, pellets or the meal found as an ingredient?

I ask because I've got two horses showing photosensitivity/scratches this winter that haven't before. First thing *I* do is pull 'falf. But what's puzzling to me is these guys were on an alfalfa based ration balancer (Poulin's MVP--'falf is #1 ingredient) previously. I switched to plain 'falf pellets and a vit/min this past spring.

Which has me wondering if there's any difference in the processing or such? The vit/min levels are very close to, if not over the RB. (as far as copper, vit E etc, Selenium, Vit A.)

Heeding my own advice, diet is soy free. But I'm a little screwed trying to make up protein for them if I have to pull the 'falf pellets. My hay runs a whopping 6-8% protein and whole oats are what, 10%? Growing 2 & 3yos in the Arctic... :sigh:

[Ponyclubrocks]

The TDN (total digestible nutrients) vary dramatically depending on at what stage of growth the plant is harvested (pre bloom, post bloom etc) so even with the same product the nutritional value can change by batch based on the quality of the ingredients used to produce the feed. I am not in the feed business so I don't know how manufacturers make adjustments for this to meet their analysis specifications. Perhaps someone else knows....

[Melyni]

Is there anything other than stem length different about alfalfa cubes, pellets or the meal found as an ingredient?

I ask because I've got two horses showing photosensitivity/scratches this winter that haven't before. First thing *I* do is pull 'falf. But what's puzzling to me is these guys were on an alfalfa based ration balancer (Poulin's MVP--'falf is #1 ingredient) previously. I switched to plain 'falf pellets and a vit/min this past spring.

Which has me wondering if there's any difference in the processing or such? The vit/min levels are very close to, if not over the RB. (as far as copper, vit E etc, Selenium, Vit A.)

Heeding my own advice, diet is soy free. But I'm a little screwed trying to make up protein for them if I have to pull the 'falf pellets. My hay runs a whopping 6-8% protein and whole oats are what, 10%? Growing 2 & 3yos in the Arctic... :sigh:

FWIW I think that the scratches issue is more to do with low zinc and copper than the protein per se. BUT you could try adding some whey protein to up the protein quality, they will only need around 10g per day.
Of add in whole flax seed, that always helps with skin issues, it's around 24% protein as well same as the alfalfa.

I would definitely get them onto a good mineral mix with adequate zinc and copper, preferably as the chelate or aa complex.

Yours
MW

[Simkie]

If you're not feeding soy because of the phytoestrogens in it (or if that is one of your reasons) I'd think you'd want to stay away from flax as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens

Flax seed and other oilseeds contained the highest total phytoestrogen content, followed by soy bean and tofu.

[pintopiaffe]

Oh, yes, they do get Flax, a cup (measured vs. 8oz by weight) a day... (Simkie :eek: ) I've not had any react to flax, but definitely to soy, I don't KNOW *what* in the soy was the culprit. In my guy's case was just a low grade allergy. In three others was hives and summer sores, typical 'allergy' reaction, IM(limted)O as opposed to the IR/repro etc. issues some other folks have.

So 10g of Whey protein would make up the difference for how much--a lb of alfalfa? 1/2 lb?

I don't imagine it's all that cost effective to use whey... I've thought in the past about using milk replacer as a protein source for the soy free/alfalfa free stallion...

I just don't get why they would not have the photosensitivity with the RB, but do with the plain 'falf pellets & vit/min. The vit/min is very good. Perhaps I need to boost the zinc & copper.... still, in my experience, that doesn't help if alfalfa is the culprit and you don't PULL it entirely... it helps things heal, but doesn't prevent the issue from happening...

[Daydream Believer]

If you're not feeding soy because of the phytoestrogens in it (or if that is one of your reasons) I'd think you'd want to stay away from flax as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens

There are different phytoestrogens in different plants and some may cause problems for horses and some may not. We really have no idea which ones are most active in horses without any testing. I fed flax last Fall after I took my horses off the soy feed and had no problems at all.

I was going to suggest whey protein also. I'm planning to use it this summer for my broodies when they are lactating to make up some of the necessary amino acids/protein they will need.

One ounce has about 25g of protein in it. Scroll down on this link for the nutritional profile:

http://www.nutrabio.com/Products/whey_protein_isolate.htm

I figure the cost at about .475 an oz.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=pintopiaffe;3846971]Is there anything other than stem length different about alfalfa cubes, pellets or the meal found as an ingredient?

the industry is unregulated..anything the mill sees fit to do they can do...;)

high protein,grinder tub,dehy,normal,powered,molasses added,no molasses,heat no heat...

one shoe cannot fit all...

best

[horselips]

http://www.thehorse.com/Print.aspx?ID=8898

"...Complete feeds are pelleted feeds that have ground hay (usually alfalfa) combined in the pellet. They increase the fiber content of the diet but do not provide the bulk necessary to keep the horse's digestive tract functioning smoothly. Alfalfa pellets are similar to complete feeds. They provide fiber but do not provide the needed bulk. However, alfalfa cubes are long fiber hay pressed into cubes. Cubes will give the horse needed bulk in its intestines. There have been infrequent reports of horses choking on the large cubes, but there is probably no danger for the normal horse. "

[pintopiaffe]

Anyone know how many grams of protein in a lb of alfalfa?

I hate math. :uhoh:

[Tamara in TN]

Anyone know how many grams of protein in a lb of alfalfa?

I hate math. :uhoh:

that is based solely on the sample in front of you...

best

[Daydream Believer]

It averages about 17% of protein so at that percentage, one pound would contain 77 g of protein.
17/100*454= 77g

[okggo]

YES!!!!!!!!! It is 150% dependant on HOW IT'S CUT!! Alfalfa is REALLY prone to a lot of nasties, toxins, fungus, etc. and has to be cut to a very specific standard.

I had 2 react TERRIBLY to a specific cutting of alfalfa hay and be perfectly fine with another.

Google hepatogenous photosensitivity syndrome. Water damage causes this, and the hay can look and smell fine but be a carrier if not cut and baled/stored properly.

[okggo]

I've been feeding from www.alfagreensupreme.com to the ones that blew up on the poorly processed stuff and so far so good!!

Edited to add NF dried milk is another protein option. 1 Cup dry (about 2.4 oz) has about 20 grams of protein.

[Melyni]

Anyone know how many grams of protein in a lb of alfalfa?

I hate math. :uhoh:

1lb= 453.6g if the alfalfa is 25% protein, then 453.6 X .25 = 113.4

MW

[pintopiaffe]

Okkgo--that is VERY interesting. Unfortunately can't tell much about cubes or pellets and where they came from etc. Huh. Something to think about.

Thanks for the math--DB has it, the pellets I get from Blue Seal/Kent are 17%. So 77g of protein is a lot of protein to make up.

I loff this board. Learn something new every day.