What is an alternative for Progressive's Envision fat supp?

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I've been told this stuff is amazing. Of course no one distributes it around here. Any other ideas? I'm not in love with the bucket fat supps.


PACKAGING: 50 LB poly bags
Envision™ Classic is an extruded (fully cooked) mini-nugget that contains a blend of high-quality vegetable oil sources. Fortified with amino acids, minerals and vitamins necessary for growth, performance and appearance.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein min. 12.0%
Lysine, min. 0.8%
Crude Fat, min. 26.0%
Crude Fiber, min. 10.5%
Calcium, min. 0.8% max. 1.3%
Phosphorus, min. 0.4%
Potassium, min. 1.0%
Copper, min. 30 ppm
Zinc, min. 80 ppm
Selenium, min. 0.30 ppm
Vitamin A, min. 3,600 IU/lb
Vitamin D, min. 360 IU/lb
Vitamin E, min. 300 IU/lb
Lbs/P.N.unit min. 6

[Hollywood]

I have mainly used Buckeye Ultimate Finish. For one horse I used Purina Amplify - but I think the Amplify has corn in it, so you may want to check ingredients if your horse is sensitive to corn.

[Melyni]

ADM have about 3 feeds that would be as good
ADM Senior Glo
ADM moor glo
and there's another but I can't recall the name.

OR Buckeye feeds

OR LinPro

OR Blue Seals Omegatin.

Of course I recommend the LinPro.
MW

[ponyjumper4]

What she's asking for is an alternative fat source, which is what Envision Classic is, and LinPro and some of those others wouldn't qualifiy. I'm not all that impressed with Envision especially considering its cost and that the calorie content was not much more than the rice bran pellets I use on some horses. It is nice, but not worth the 2x more price than rice bran pellets.

[CATransplant]

As a "former" progressive fan and feeder, I used the envision and thought it was alright, but something just wasn't looking right on my gelding, couldn't quite figure out what was wrong. He just lost some of the "bloom" I love on him. It was really expensive too. Hes since been changed over to a completely different diet and doing wonderful. I give my horse a Chia Seed supplement for fat. Absolutely amazing product and what a difference!

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Where are you getting your rice bran pellets? The ones I saw were $$.

What is Chai seed??

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I should clarify what I'm looking for. The Envision was recommended to me, but I need to put on weight without getting hot. Horse is a 15 year old TB and a very hard keeper. I like Omega fatty acids and I like a vitamin mix.

Edited to add that non-expensive would be appreciated. I'm looking for the most bang for my buck (like everyone else these days). I really don't want to raise his grain ration anymore and he has gone from Alfalfa based diet to grass hay (I can't controll that) and the weight isn't staying on.

[LMH]

As a "former" progressive fan and feeder, I used the envision and thought it was alright, but something just wasn't looking right on my gelding, couldn't quite figure out what was wrong. He just lost some of the "bloom" I love on him. It was really expensive too. Hes since been changed over to a completely different diet and doing wonderful. I give my horse a Chia Seed supplement for fat. Absolutely amazing product and what a difference!

Where are you getting your chia seed?

[CATransplant]

Chia is a food rich in omega-3 fatty acids, fiber, antioxidants, and protein. It has fewer carbohydrates when compared to most other grains. Chia seed has an oil content that ranges between 29 and 33 percent. In today's market there are four readily available sources of omega-3 fatty acids: menhaden (an Atlantic fish of the herring family) oil, flaxseed, chia and algae. The omega-3 fatty acid content of chia oil is superior to all other sources:

Chia oil 62-64 percent
flaxseed oil 58%
menhaden fish oil 29%

The protein content of chia seed is also higher than most cereals:

Chia 19-23%
Wheat 14%
Corn 10%
Rice 6.5%
Oats 17%
Barley 12.5%

The amino acid balance of chia also compares favorably with that of other cereals, having higher levels of lysine, methionine, and cysteine.

[CATransplant]

Where are you getting your chia seed?


I buy from Dynamite. OxE Mega product. :)

[sixpoundfarm]

I used to feed Envision, and agree about the expense. I was feeding 3-4lbs daily to some mares, plus the max of the RB and Oats! The volume of feed just to be SO much, that some stopped cleaning it all up, and I decided I needed to change.
I use a cold pressed soybean oil to add fat calories , while keeping the volume of feed down. I have had excellent results on both WB and TB mares. I will give up to 12oz daily to the ones needing lots of calories, down to 2oz for just some added bloom.

http://www.challengerfeeds.com/

[VirginiaBred]

I should clarify what I'm looking for. The Envision was recommended to me, but I need to put on weight without getting hot. Horse is a 15 year old TB and a very hard keeper. I like Omega fatty acids and I like a vitamin mix.

Edited to add that non-expensive would be appreciated. I'm looking for the most bang for my buck (like everyone else these days). I really don't want to raise his grain ration anymore and he has gone from Alfalfa based diet to grass hay (I can't controll that) and the weight isn't staying on.



FatCat Supplement. Will NOT make then hot and you'll see results in two weeks. GREAT stuff!!!

http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productclassid=65

[LMH]

I buy from Dynamite. OxE Mega product. :)

I thought you might say that!

[dalpal]

How about Cocosoya Oil from Uckele? It's good stuff...cheapest place I found it was www.bigdweb.com

I have used Envision, but keep in mind, some horses will not eat it. Mine hate about half a bag (don't worry, not in one feeding :lol:) before he started snubbing it...so now I have half a bag left.

[CATransplant]

I thought you might say that!

Oh really?:lol: I am fairly new to the company and the products, but have really loved everything so far, ALL of my animals are on D products.

[JB]

Oh really?:lol: I am fairly new to the company and the products, but have really loved everything so far, ALL of my animals are on D products.
So are mine and so are most of LMH's :)

[ponyjumper4]

Where are you getting your rice bran pellets? The ones I saw were $$.



I get mine at Southern States. I use the Legends Rice Bran Pellets. I think they are about $22/bag, whereas Envision is at least $40/bag (probably closer to $45-50). Just about any of fat supplement feed (Rice Bran (anyone's variety), Nutrena's Empower, etc) are going to run you at least in the $20's/bag

[Melyni]

I should clarify what I'm looking for. The Envision was recommended to me, but I need to put on weight without getting hot. Horse is a 15 year old TB and a very hard keeper. I like Omega fatty acids and I like a vitamin mix.

Edited to add that non-expensive would be appreciated. I'm looking for the most bang for my buck (like everyone else these days). I really don't want to raise his grain ration anymore and he has gone from Alfalfa based diet to grass hay (I can't controll that) and the weight isn't staying on.

If you are not worried about the vitamin/minerals or the amino-acids and just want a fat source I'd recommend rice bran pellets and or plain old flax. Don't feed more than 8oz of flax per day so if you need more calories than that supplies, use rice bran pellets.
Maxi Glo or Moor Glo, the KER product and the Triple Crown product are all good makes.
Yours
MW

[dalpal]

If you are not worried about the vitamin/minerals or the amino-acids and just want a fat source I'd recommend rice bran pellets and or plain old flax. Don't feed more than 8oz of flax per day so if you need more calories than that supplies, use rice bran pellets.
Maxi Glo or Moor Glo, the KER product and the Triple Crown product are all good makes.
Yours
MW

Melyni...why is this? I'm just curious because I've been 1 cup per day of the Horse Shine. Coopah is doing a great job of wasting his Foxden supplements, so I've stopped giving them to him.....am I okay to just give him the cocosoya oil (had some left over) and the Blue Seal LS or should I give him flax instead of the oil?? I was thinking about putting him on the muscle mix for his top line....that horse keeps me stressed out. :lol: Diva eats whatever you put in her dish.....he will eat something for awhile and then just start snubbing it.

[Melyni]

Melyni...why is this? I'm just curious because I've been 1 cup per day of the Horse Shine. Coopah is doing a great job of wasting his Foxden supplements, so I've stopped giving them to him.....am I okay to just give him the cocosoya oil (had some left over) and the Blue Seal LS or should I give him flax instead of the oil?? I was thinking about putting him on the muscle mix for his top line....that horse keeps me stressed out. :lol: Diva eats whatever you put in her dish.....he will eat something for awhile and then just start snubbing it.

Flax is great stuff, but it's a case of some is good but more ain't necessarily better!
Some flax up to 8oz is great a for a horse, over 8 oz and there will be GI tract Problems and may be thyroid problems.

Use the cocosoya if he likes it, it does not have the nutritional benefit of the flax, but if he won't eat flax then it isn't doing him any good.

If he really likes the taste of the cocosoya then try mixing a little bit of LinPro in with it.
LinPro has things in it that they will and do benefit from, but only if they will eat it.
MW

[dalpal]

Flax is great stuff, but it's a case of some is good but more ain't necessarily better!
Some flax up to 8oz is great a for a horse, over 8 oz and there will be GI tract Problems and may be thyroid problems.

Use the cocosoya if he likes it, it does not have the nutritional benefit of the flax, but if he won't eat flax then it isn't doing him any good.

If he really likes the taste of the cocosoya then try mixing a little bit of LinPro in with it.
LinPro has things in it that they will and do benefit from, but only if they will eat it.
MW

Gotcha...so ignore the 1 cup recommendation on the OHS bag and go with 1/2 cup right? Damnit, I'm always screwing something up.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Now two people have recommended cold-pressed soybean oil to me...I see a trend. Any info on corn vs. soy oil (have a friend who swears by corn). What about those two vs. boss sunflower seeds? I see threads on that periodically.

Dumb question (I've boarded forever where we just had one choice...what the BO fed...hay and grain) do rice bran pellets need soaking? I was thinking you soak bran (like I said, probably something I should know already).

[FlashGordon]

I was using the Envision, but swapped to BS Omegatin because it is easier to get locally. It runs about $23-26 a bag here.

[Melyni]

Gotcha...so ignore the 1 cup recommendation on the OHS bag and go with 1/2 cup right? Damnit, I'm always screwing something up.

No 1 cup is around 4 oz so you are fine with your 1 cup you can even go to 2 cups if you want more calories.

The real trouble starts when people feed 1 lb or more.

So I always say not over 8 oz and then if they can't measure correctly and fed 1 lb they are still fine.

Whole flax ground right at feeding time is preferable to any other fat source that way you get the most ALA into the horse. If you can't grind at feed time feed it whole and add water.
If you want the lubrication properties to prevent colic, feed it whole and wetted at feed time.

Whole flax is higher in Omega 3s than any processed oil.
MW

[Peg]

I like the way Healthy Coat oil supplement makes my horses look. Their hooves are great, too. I had been milling my own flax seed and give 1/2 c. AM and PM. They look like they are brushed a lot more than I actually do. Peg

[dalpal]

No 1 cup is around 4 oz so you are fine with your 1 cup you can even go to 2 cups if you want more calories.

The real trouble starts when people feed 1 lb or more.

So I always say not over 8 oz and then if they can't measure correctly and fed 1 lb they are still fine.

Whole flax ground right at feeding time is preferable to any other fat source that way you get the most ALA into the horse. If you can't grind at feed time feed it whole and add water.
If you want the lubrication properties to prevent colic, feed it whole and wetted at feed time.

Whole flax is higher in Omega 3s than any processed oil.
MW

ROFL....there's a reason I'm a music major and not a math major...I was thinking 16 ounces was a cup....DUH. :lol: So glad that I'm surrounded by smart people. :D

[AnotherRound]

Yes, remember that ounces is a weight, and a cup is a volume. A pound of some things wouldn't fit in a cup. A pound of iron might.

For example: My grain bag says my grain (this is a triple crown product) says that my particular grain is 1.1 pounds per quart. So, I can feed pretty much one quart of grain and be giving him a pound.

some grains are more dense, and some are less dense. You get it, I know you do.

Heck, muisc IS math!! Try doing music theory without math!! Try listening to music and not hear the patterns. Try writing the same music in two cleffs a different cleff and not using math to transpose! How can you differentiate a thrid and a fifth without math? Music is mathmatecal in concept, in structure, in timing. I know you know what I mean!

There is Escher-like beauty in music, one of the most mathmatical artists ever. Many autistic and 'savant' type people who see their world in mathmatical structure are drawn to music and its structure. Interesting parallels, indeed, between math and music. Worthwhile to investigate that! That paper would get you an A! Maybe that focus would get you a good seat in grad school!

[Concetta]

I've been told this stuff is amazing. Of course no one distributes it around here. Any other ideas? I'm not in love with the bucket fat supps.


PACKAGING: 50 LB poly bags
Envision™ Classic is an extruded (fully cooked) mini-nugget that contains a blend of high-quality vegetable oil sources. Fortified with amino acids, minerals and vitamins necessary for growth, performance and appearance.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein min. 12.0%
Lysine, min. 0.8%
Crude Fat, min. 26.0%
Crude Fiber, min. 10.5%
Calcium, min. 0.8% max. 1.3%
Phosphorus, min. 0.4%
Potassium, min. 1.0%
Copper, min. 30 ppm
Zinc, min. 80 ppm
Selenium, min. 0.30 ppm
Vitamin A, min. 3,600 IU/lb
Vitamin D, min. 360 IU/lb
Vitamin E, min. 300 IU/lb
Lbs/P.N.unit min. 6

You can order directly from Progressive Nutrition...check out www.prognutrition.com ....to answer your question ...Buckeye's Ultimate Finish will be the closest thing comparable to Envision Classic...as Don from Progressive used to be the nutritionist and made the formula

It is great stuff and very well worth the money...if your horse doesn't like it...try mixing it w/ plain soaked beet pulp

Rice bran pellets are higher in NSC's than Envision and Ultimate Finish so i'd stay away from that for a hard keeper