Mini Australian Shepherds as Barn dogs? *UPDATED* Post 76 NEW PICS

[RockingN]

Okay I've dipped into the world of farm dogs, but I want a small, active, intelligent, trainable, watch dog type of dog. My parents have an australian cattle dog and I LOVE him, but I want something like him, in a smaller size. I've done some researching and have found out that there are toy australian shepherds. I realize if there are any standard aussie breeders on here that I may have started something (flame-suit activated). I have heard a lot of aussie breeders detest the toy/mini version for whatever reason. But the truth is, I really love the breed, but I need a smaller farm dog. So what do you guys thing? Anyone seen/have a toy aussie? Anyone breed them or know someone who breeds them? I realize I could have posted this on some other more dog related forum, but I'm looking for a horse-persons view.

*I decided to get a mini*

[RockingN]

Oh, I wanted to add, I want a small dog 10-13 inch range (at shoulder). A durable dog. No I don't want a jack. My parents have one. I want something different. But it needs to have substance. Be able to go jogging with me, be around the horses and be active without being extremely fragile.

[quicksilverponies]

Don't know anything about the toy aussies - I vote for Welsh Corgi. I love mine! He is small, quick, sturdy, smart and not afraid of a thing.

[asanders]

Fox terrier.

[mjrtango93]

The woman that fixes all our horse blankets breeds mini aussies (I believe there is a difference between mini and toy, but I could be wrong). They are very similar to their larger counter parts but have some strong differences as well. The ones I've seen are not nearly as independent as the full size version, the tended to bark a bit more, and because of such specialized breeding (and its a newer breed compartively speaking) they tend to have more genetic issues, so choose wisely. But they are still quite barn savvy, loyal, and protective. I prefer the full size version (mine barely weighs 40# on a fat day) because I like that they have a bit more substance so they are a bit hardier. I have a aussie x kelpie boy that is 37# and medium height but very thin build, and when he had 4 legs was quite energetic. Maybe try looking for something like that.

[Jealoushe]

WOW, I had a toy Aussie for 6 years and she was the love of my life!! She was an absolute angel, great around the horses, loyal and really easy to train. She never strayed, didn't bark much and was the cuddliest fluffiest thing ever. Some pics:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=4861&id=510448702

flip through the album

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2067560&id=89904871#/photo.php?pid=32418592&id=89904871

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2067560&id=89904871#/photo.php?pid=32418602&id=89904871

[RockingN]

Jealoushe- wow she is gorgeous! You have a PM :)

Yes I am doing a lot of research looking for a good breeder so I stay away from heath issues. My brother had a corgi and I didn't really fall in love with him... He was cute and everything, but not for me. I travel a lot too so I am really looking for something in the 15 pound range.
I have heard bad things about fox terriers.. anyone know? I've heard they're quite spazzy and not so easy to train.

[stryder]

I'm sure you've already considered this, but .... training will be very important. As shepherds, their tendency will be to nip at heels, chase and herd. Not that it can't be dealt with through training, but that will be their tendency.

My all-time favorite best dog was a greyhound/black lab mix. Smart, quiet, loyal and extremely clean. Probably about 30 pounds. She loved to run when I rode, but never chased.

Good luck.

[Hannahsmom]

I was like you in looking for a new dog. I had had Dalmatians in the past, then a JRT.

I looked into the smaller Australian Shepherds (I thought they were called minature, not toy but I'm probably wrong). I think they are probably a great dog but I ended up with a Border Terrier. I am so happy with that choice. Borders were bred to be fast enough (long legged enough) to keep up with the horses and hounds foxhunting then dog out the fox at the end. They are bred to 'get along' with other dogs and they don't seem to be as rodent-driven as my JRT was. They range from 11-18 pounds depending on sex. Hard coat (not furry to pick up burrs) which I like but I do the stripping to keep it short although even shaggy it is fine.

You might want to look into them, go to the Border Terrier Club of America website and there are breeder/mentor referrals there that you can call and ask about the breed and if it would fit into your lifestyle. But great farm dog so far. They love the outdoors, they don't do as well in really hot weather though so not sure where you live.

[EasternMkt]

Caveat: I breed and trial Australian Shepherds, but my current dogs all weigh in between 28 and 40 lbs, working weight.

Quality really depends on the breeder and how much work they do to ensure that a cross will produce good quality offspring that meet the breed ideal in terms of temperament, drive, conformation, type, etc. All Aussies, regardless of size, can have hip dysplasia, various inherited eye disorders, epilepsy, wonky temperaments, etc. Smaller dogs, regardless of breed, also have a higher tendency toward luxating patellas.

I wouldn't buy anything from a breeder that claimed that they "never had any problems" and didn't seem to understand the breed standard. At a minimum w/ Aussies, you want to see hip and eye clearances. Any good breeder will also be perfectly happy to discuss temperament, epilepsy, allergies, etc. w/ a prospective buyer.

On a personal note, the majority (there have been a few exceptions) toys that I met didn't act like Aussies, IMO. But that didn't make them bad dogs.

[Jealoushe]

There are both miniature and Toy to my understanding. I thought mine was a mini for the longest time but I was corrected.

Mine definitly had an Aussie personality, but perhaps a little more like a person.

[tx3dayeventer]

WOW, I had a toy Aussie for 6 years and she was the love of my life!! She was an absolute angel, great around the horses, loyal and really easy to train. She never strayed, didn't bark much and was the cuddliest fluffiest thing ever. Some pics:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=4861&id=510448702

flip through the album

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2067560&id=89904871#/photo.php?pid=32418592&id=89904871

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2067560&id=89904871#/photo.php?pid=32418602&id=89904871

Your looks almost identical to mine!!!!! Mine is a mini, though, she has the longest legs.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=36604773&l=c6725&id=29605780

Here is the album link: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2209222&l=807d7&id=29605780

[HydroPHILE]

Why not get an Australian Shepherd who was born smaller than breed standard but came from standard lines?

I don't like any breeders that breed solely for size and color when it comes to dogs (those breeders wanting "pocket" versions or "rare colors"). With Aussies, the "breeding for color" tends to result in a high percentage of deafness.

I <3 Aussie Shepherds. They are so intelligent!

[Cielo Azure]

Caveat: I breed and trial Australian Shepherds, but my current dogs all weigh in between 28 and 40 lbs, working weight.

Quality really depends on the breeder and how much work they do to ensure that a cross will produce good quality offspring that meet the breed ideal in terms of temperament, drive, conformation, type, etc. All Aussies, regardless of size, can have hip dysplasia, various inherited eye disorders, epilepsy, wonky temperaments, etc. Smaller dogs, regardless of breed, also have a higher tendency toward luxating patellas.

I wouldn't buy anything from a breeder that claimed that they "never had any problems" and didn't seem to understand the breed standard. At a minimum w/ Aussies, you want to see hip and eye clearances. Any good breeder will also be perfectly happy to discuss temperament, epilepsy, allergies, etc. w/ a prospective buyer.

On a personal note, the majority (there have been a few exceptions) toys that I met didn't act like Aussies, IMO. But that didn't make them bad dogs.

I agree completely. Most of the toys I have met, seem to look and act suspiciously like papilion mixes. Yep. They at fluffy and cuddley, have little herding instinct but come in BLUE MERLE! For the average suburban dog/horse lover, they are probably a great choice but they are NOT Aussies. They don't meet breed standard, they are clearly mixed and are generally scorned by the Aussie community.

Some "miniatures" are pure Aussies, usually working lines because they tend to be smaller than the show lines. However, they also are NOT Aussies, can not be dual registered and are generally frowned upon also.

Personally, I like a dog that offers what an Aussie has to offer. I like to trial, I like working dogs, I like a dog that is big enough to be resilant and herd something other than ducks and mini-sheep (hey, EasternMkt I lived in MD for years, do we know each other? I used to train with Dicky -sigh and trialed at his farm many times).

But each to their own, I can understand wanting a less complicated dog than an Aussie, if you aren't into training. But size? The difference between 18" and slightly below seems like so little to sacrifice quality for. And yes, with the mini things (my friends would kill me for calling them miniature Aussies, B.T.W.), quality just isn't as good usually. To get them, they have used whatever runts they can get their hands on. And the "breed" is still a work in progress and has a limitied gene pool.

I should probably shut my mouth now...

[EasternMkt]

I should probably shut my mouth now...

Jill?!? Is that you? W/ the Perches and that cool red tri boy you had? Used to be in Frederick? It's Katherine... still in DC, still w/ the Aussies, sheep, and now a couple new horses to boot. ;-)

[ASBnTX]

I have 3 toy aussies! They are the best!! I was active in breeding and showing them for awhile, and can refer you to some great breeders if you're interested? You do have to be careful because some are breeding many of the aussie qualities, out in order to get a small size.

Here's my Nemo after playing in the mud:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/jamiecb1127/100_1825.jpg

His mom:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t112/jamiecb1127/nemomom.jpg

[Jealoushe]

I agree completely. Most of the toys I have met, seem to look and act suspiciously like papilion mixes. Yep. They at fluffy and cuddley, have little herding instinct but come in BLUE MERLE! For the average suburban dog/horse lover, they are probably a great choice but they are NOT Aussies. They don't meet breed standard, they are clearly mixed and are generally scorned by the Aussie community.

Some "miniatures" are pure Aussies, usually working lines because they tend to be smaller than the show lines. However, they also are NOT Aussies, can not be dual registered and are generally frowned upon also.

Personally, I like a dog that offers what an Aussie has to offer. I like to trial, I like working dogs, I like a dog that is big enough to be resilant and herd something other than ducks and mini-sheep (hey, EasternMkt I lived in MD for years, do we know each other? I used to train with Dicky -sigh and trialed at his farm many times).

But each to their own, I can understand wanting a less complicated dog than an Aussie, if you aren't into training. But size? The difference between 18" and slightly below seems like so little to sacrifice quality for. And yes, with the mini things (my friends would kill me for calling them miniature Aussies, B.T.W.), quality just isn't as good usually. To get them, they have used whatever runts they can get their hands on. And the "breed" is still a work in progress and has a limitied gene pool.

I should probably shut my mouth now...


My "toy" Aussie certainly acted similarly to my "full" Aussie. She was also a working dog - seen here:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=30572049&id=89904871

Zoe, was registered also, I would have to check her papers as I didn't get her directly from the breeder.

As for quality, if you click the facebook link above that is linked to what was Zoe's own profile...she was a high quality dog who had fans all over the horse show circuit. She was built nicely, had a beautiful coat and would definitly not include her in lower class of dog than full size aussies.

I agree that YES a lot of people breed crap small dogs of ALL breeds, but not all mini and toy aussies are diminished in quality.

[Jealoushe]

Your looks almost identical to mine!!!!! Mine is a mini, though, she has the longest legs.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=36604773&l=c6725&id=29605780

Here is the album link: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2209222&l=807d7&id=29605780

They are actually so similar!

[Bluey]

I can't see the pictures, they are password protected.

I think that toys are crosses with pomeranians, not papillons.
Pomeranians are very popular with puppy mills, as puppies in a window they are irresistible and they are good breeders, so much more accessible to those that like to invent crosses with cute names.
Papillons are considerably more rare and expensive and have smaller litters, not as easy to use for odd crosses.

I have a friend with a mini aussie, the same size but less substantial than her heeler.
She got him in CO from a breeder that has both, standard and minis and her boy is a very neat dog and just like any other aussie, but half sized.

I would be sure you check the breeder very good, because aussies tend to have their share of health problems.

Our aussie was of pure herding lines and, being as tall as a standard sized one, for a female, was not as heavyset and hairy as today's aussies tend to be.

[Rhyadawn]

If you look at the breed standard for Australian Shepherds it calls for dogs that are significantly smaller than the monsters most (BY) breeders are breeding now.

For example, my female is 71lbs working weight.

I was very suprised when I went looking for a second Aussie to see the dogs the professional breeders were breeding. I thought they were small, most ran 35 to 50lbs.

Another thing to think about. A dog that travels well, it doesn't matter their size. I have a much easier time travelling with my 2 (65 and 71lbs) than my friend does with her 4lb yorkie! I worried a lot about that, because I travel quite a bit too, but it hasn't been a problem at all.

I've known a couple minis and haven't been really impressed. But I'm not going to knock the breed because I really think it was more to do with their upbrining than anything that made them the way they were. (read cutsie yappy no brain dogs)

[amdfarm]

My old trainer has "mini" aussies and they are wonderful little dogs. Adorable as puppies!! Little fluff balls. She takes them to shows and pretty much everywhere w/ her when she travels. Their size makes that easier. Well mannered, easily trained and get along w/ everyone and everything, even the cats. They don't bother the horses at all even when she's riding. She's an eventer, but they also camp w/ the horses and the dogs go, too.

[cloudyandcallie]

why would anyone want to miniaturize an aussie?:confused: They are a midsized dog, and you can get a more lightweight one than a burly one if you check out the parents.
Lots are in shelters, or you can ask my breeder for a referral in your area. Buy the ones who have their eyes and hips certified!!! www.lasrocosa.com
They've been selling me aussies for eons.

[NRB]

the first aussie I ever got to know was a small blue merle bitch. Probably a 35- 40lb dog when wet. This was around 1982. I wonder if the breed was different in the early 80's, since the breed was not recgonized by the AKC until 1991. Sorry but it always seem that the breed goes downhill when the AKC recgonizes them they become show ring dogs.

Anyway I had a female from a 1991 litter that was the runt of the litter, she was small at 45 lbs. Not as tall and leggy. more compact.

So you can always look for a small regular aussie.

[Marengo]

I've got a colour question about Aussies. Most of the Aussies I've ever seen, mini and regular are Blue Merle. The way I understand it responsible breeders breed a non-merle to a merle so as not to get any double meres because these dogs have health problems. My question is where are all these non-merles? It seems to me that part of the appeal of this breed is the unusual merle colouring so what happens to the non-merles? Or are breeders breeding merle to merle and someone getting rid of the double merle puppies?

[Rhyadawn]

I've got a colour question about Aussies. Most of the Aussies I've ever seen, mini and regular are Blue Merle. The way I understand it responsible breeders breed a non-merle to a merle so as not to get any double meres because these dogs have health problems. My question is where are all these non-merles? It seems to me that part of the appeal of this breed is the unusual merle colouring so what happens to the non-merles? Or are breeders breeding merle to merle and someone getting rid of the double merle puppies?

Tri's and Bi colours are out there, but most people don't pick them out as Aussies. I get asked all the time if my female (black tri) is a huskey cross becasue she has a blue eye (wtf? no idea what people think, but not the point) or a german shepherd cross because she has a very sooty face (copper isn't clean looking. Its very pretty though).

A black Bi aussie looks like a border collie to the inexperienced eye, even more so if they don't have their tail docked.

As for black (blue) over red, you can't get black from red (red is the absense of black). The only way to gaurentee a totally red litter is to breed two reds together.

[Lori]

Gads, I hate these BYB that "toy" and "mini" dogs that ARE NOT supposed to be that way!!! Responsible breeders breed to standard for what the dog was originally bred for. :(
Not a flame.....

I know a lady with a mini aussie. Cute, yeah, but working ability/instinct, NIL! He is a red, not merle at all.

[vestito]

I have a mini aussie that only weighed 7 lbs until we had her spayed. now she is probably 8.
She is the neatest little dog, smart and alert but I don't do much with her and she is fine just hanging out. Of course I have a little jack about the same age so they play all day.
Mine is that beautiful cocoa color that I think they call red or maybe liver. I know for a fact that she is from working stock out of OH. She was the runt and never grew. My sister got a litter mate tri colored female who is three times the size of my little runt. I wish I could post a pic, because she looks just like a Pomeranian. So much in fact that a good friend called me paniced and asked where my dog was. She saw her twin in town and thought someone had taken her. I have seen this dog myself and was shook up the first time since they look like twins until you see the tail on the pom.

I will never have another breed after having this dog. She is the best. I had two ACD before this girl and she is easier to bring places because of her size and doesn't really shed. The ACD female listened better but I had spent more time with her one on one.
This Aussie is so smart , I taught her to wave in one day. I wish I had more time to put into her training. I will try to post a pic. If anyone wants breeder info just pm me.

Rocking N had to laugh at your Fox Terrier comment, my old vet had one and guess his name....Spazz LOL

[anne06]

Hi, I never post (just read) but had to reply to the comment about Fox terriers - I have a smooth foxie that is the most wonderful dog I have ever owned, and without question the most intelligent (I used to have Border collies, and never thought I could find another breed that smart - loved them too, but too much hair...). She is a GREAT farm dog, but is incredibly high energy, as well as smart, and would drive every one up a tree if she were living in suburbia. This is probably why they have a reputation for being nutty. I think any breed, if they have a strong drive to DO something other than sit around the house, end up getting a bad rap that is often undeserved - lots of poor old Borders are quietly going crazy in inappropriate homes also. In addition to being my best helper and bud, if she gets into a pile of horse poo (or the current mud from melting ice) she is a lot easier to brush or wash off - she dries in a minute - than the Borders were! She weighs about 18lbs.
I wish I could work out how to add a photo - she is a great dog. Probably not the best breed for everyone, but she is certainly a "dog of a lifetime" for me.
Anne-Louise

[cloudyandcallie]

I've got a colour question about Aussies. Most of the Aussies I've ever seen, mini and regular are Blue Merle. The way I understand it responsible breeders breed a non-merle to a merle so as not to get any double meres because these dogs have health problems. My question is where are all these non-merles? It seems to me that part of the appeal of this breed is the unusual merle colouring so what happens to the non-merles? Or are breeders breeding merle to merle and someone getting rid of the double merle puppies?

Easy go to www.lasrocosa.com and see reds and blacks and tris.
And the book "All About Aussies" explains the white factor. I was always told no white around the eyes.
I love blue merles best, and out of 7 lifetimes ausssies, had 5 blue merles and one salt and pepper (very old style and my first one) and one black tri.

[cloudyandcallie]

the first aussie I ever got to know was a small blue merle bitch. Probably a 35- 40lb dog when wet. This was around 1982. I wonder if the breed was different in the early 80's, since the breed was not recgonized by the AKC until 1991. Sorry but it always seem that the breed goes downhill when the AKC recgonizes them they become show ring dogs.

Anyway I had a female from a 1991 litter that was the runt of the litter, she was small at 45 lbs. Not as tall and leggy. more compact.

So you can always look for a small regular aussie.

You are right. AKC would NOT let us in for years, so ASCA kept showing and makng more $$$ and AKC was losing $, so AKC solicited enough aussie breeders to get the Aussies. Now they are breeding for color, more white ruffs, less brain matter. I love them but I'd rather they have continued breeding for herding instinct and working dogs, rather than for fluffy white ruffs. Like the Collie were ruined for herding by breeding for those long pointy noses.
If you look at the old pix of Aussies, including "Hud" and his family (I had one of his daughters, Las Rocosa Cozette) you'll see less white and more Aussie intelligence. Aussies used to be bred for performance not looks (the standard), the merle color was a byproduct, like the european warmbloods are still bred for performance not a standard.

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

You are right. AKC would NOT let us in for years, so ASCA kept showing and makng more $$$ and AKC was losing $, so AKC solicited enough aussie breeders to get the Aussies. Now they are breeding for color, more white ruffs, less brain matter. I love them but I'd rather they have continued breeding for herding instinct and working dogs, rather than for fluffy white ruffs. Like the Collie were ruined for herding by breeding for those long pointy noses.
If you look at the old pix of Aussies, including "Hud" and his family (I had one of his daughters, Las Rocosa Cozette) you'll see less white and more Aussie intelligence. Aussies used to be bred for performance not looks (the standard), the merle color was a byproduct, like the european warmbloods are still bred for performance not a standard.

Yep. I have Border Collies. The working-bred kind, not the Barbie Collies. You can't breed for pretty and for ability - it's like trying to field the best baseball team, but making a rule only red-headed players can be on the team. You could probably get a pretty good red-headed team together, but not many people would put money on them to beat a team selected solely for ability.

BC got drafted into ACK the same way - they hurry-up recognized a bunch of agility people as the "national" club.

FWIW there are no merle BC competing in USBCHA sanctioned trials above novice levels. But it's becoming a popular color choice in (pet) BC as well. I know of one rescue that takes in nothing but the deaf/blind/otherwise messed up results of double-merle breedings.:no:

[cloudyandcallie]

Yeah, Paint Misbehavin',
"we wuz both robbed"

[Bluey]

Nope, the AKC was approached by a group of any one breed and asked for recognition, not the other way around.:eek:

There were many aussie breeders that wanted to participate with their dogs in AKC competitions and so were border collie, Jack Russels and other breeds.

The AKC is a registry of BREED CLUBS and the individual clubs are the ones to set the standards.
The AKC will help, once a breed club decides to ask for recognition.

That there are all kinds of people in each breed, some that want some features, others a different kind, is because there are all kinds of people out there.

Blaming the AKC for that is disingenuous, when it is breeders battling breeders.

I agree that the standards for AKC registered breeds are not demanding that a dog go out there and prove that it can do what it was bred to to, be it a greyhound running, a terrier killing rats or a herding dog bringing the sheep home.
All it takes to get a dog of any breed registered is that both parents are registered, even if they have never done any other than breathe and eat.
Then, the same for all other breeds, that you can register their dogs if they have two registered parents, they too don't have to go prove they can do anything.
Where is the difference with the AKC there?

Those that feel that they want to preserve only this and that in their dogs can keep their separate registries from others, including the AKC, why not?

I know that many years back, many aussies were on the sly crossed with border collies to get more herding instinct back, as many lines were not as strong and could not compete very succesfully in open herding trials, border collies were winning all.
Well, they still are, mostly.;)

By the way, I think that judiciously studied outcrosses are fine and great, if they work, as they strenghten the gene pool.:)

[Cielo Azure]

You are right. AKC would NOT let us in for years, so ASCA kept showing and makng more $$$ and AKC was losing $, so AKC solicited enough aussie breeders to get the Aussies. Now they are breeding for color, more white ruffs, less brain matter. I love them but I'd rather they have continued breeding for herding instinct and working dogs, rather than for fluffy white ruffs. Like the Collie were ruined for herding by breeding for those long pointy noses.
If you look at the old pix of Aussies, including "Hud" and his family (I had one of his daughters, Las Rocosa Cozette) you'll see less white and more Aussie intelligence. Aussies used to be bred for performance not looks (the standard), the merle color was a byproduct, like the european warmbloods are still bred for performance not a standard.



"AKC would NOT let us in for years" NOT!!!!!

ASCA (and I was a member then) voted overwhelmingly to not be a part of AKC. 90+/- members formed their own "club" and petitioned AKC to let them be the parent club for AKC. AKC accepted their offer. The AKC breed standard is slightly different than ASCA. ASCA turned down AKC, NOT the other way around. Once it happened, every breeder pretty much had to dual register. A real shame. AKC is nasty. They knew what they were doing. They have changed the breed, Those 90 people ruined the breed single handedly and they are PROUD of it. They like the new, non-herding, long coated, larger, FLUFFY type of Aussies found in the show ring.

Mini's have been around since the 1960s but the politics of the various breed clubs has been nasty and ASCA wants nothing to do with them. Most are pure Aussies and there are some good ones as well as not. I imagine that eventually AKC will adopt the mini as a breed.

Toys are a joke, in so far as taking the Aussie name. Read the descriptions of the toy dogs on this thread. DO THESE SOUND LIKE AUSSIES TO YOU!?!?! "CUTE, Cuddley, Likes everyone, happy to "hang out", laid back, can take anywhere, sweet." Some of these phrases can apply to individual Aussies but really! I would crawl under a rug, if my Aussies acted like that. Read the breed standard. "Aussies are a WORKING dog with guardian instincts." A dog that can work cattle, a stock dog. Good in tight places. Not a toy. Not cuddley. Not laid back. Not 7 pounds.

As they are working dogs. INSTINCT comes first. Above and beyond looks or conformation. That means size variation, coat length are secondary to whether they will stand down a wild cow or take being head butted by a 200 pound sheep and get back into the game (yeh, I can see a 8 pound dog getting head butted and getting back into the game).

There are more non merles tham merles. This is my male (pure working Aussie and very typical for working lines: http://www.cieloazure.com/rojo.html Would you ID him as an Aussie? If not, you might want to educate yourself on the ASCA homesite.

Size: if you like a smaller dog, check out working lines. Show lines (think AKC) tend to be much, much bigger but then, you have 90 a**holes to thank for that.

[WaningMoon]

What about a schipperke? They are sturdy, active watchdogs, smart, and hunt vermin. I've known several horse ppl to have them and love having them. They were originally a ship dog I do believe. But I know they do work out well on farms.

[Cielo Azure]

What about a schipperke? They are sturdy, active watchdogs, smart, and hunt vermin. I've known several horse ppl to have them and love having them. They were originally a ship dog I do believe. But I know they do work out well on farms.

I love schipperkes but I heard they have the spitz "run away" gene. Not always ideal for a horse farm. But am I wrong, do they stick around?

[Marengo]

I like the look of the non-merle Aussies, thanks everyone for sharing. Unfortunately I grew up in suburbia and only have met the merles. One more Aussie question since there are so many knowledgeable people here. Why are the tails of the Aussies docked? I was thinking the answer might have something to do with herding but then Border Collies, Collies and other herding dogs don't have their tails docked. I have a friend that has an Aussie, she purchased the puppy before it was born and begged the breeder to leave the tail undocked. The breeder said they could not do that since if she backed out of purchasing the puppy, the breeder would be left with an Aussie that no one would want. My friend still bought the puppy with its docked tail. Whats the reason behind the docked tail?

[Rhyadawn]

"They like the new, non-herding, long coated, larger, FLUFFY type of Aussies found in the show ring.

Toys are a joke, in so far as taking the Aussie name. Read the descriptions of the toy dogs on this thread. DO THESE SOUND LIKE AUSSIES TO YOU!?!?! "CUTE, Cuddley, Likes everyone, happy to "hang out", laid back, can take anywhere, sweet." Some of these phrases can apply to individual Aussies but really! I would crawl under a rug, if my Aussies acted like that. Read the breed standard. "Aussies are a WORKING dog with guardian instincts." A dog that can work cattle, a stock dog. Good in tight places. Not a toy. Not cuddley. Not laid back. Not 7 pounds.

There are more non merles tham merles. This is my male (pure working Aussie and very typical for working lines: http://www.cieloazure.com/rojo.html Would you ID him as an Aussie? If not, you might want to educate yourself on the ASCA homesite.

Size: if you like a smaller dog, check out working lines. Show lines (think AKC) tend to be much, much bigger but then, you have 90 a**holes to thank for that.

Your male is very similar in body type and face to my female. Long and low. She has the white chest and face markings though, but heavily ticked and lots of runnign copper. People never guess Aussie for her either, but take one passing glance at my male and KNOW he is an aussie. He's a red merle, 66lbs of fluff, boxy face, rose ears and a blue eye. Can't get him solid muscled up to save my life. Her, not an extra ounce on her most of the time (winter exception, too cold to do anything but eat and move laundry). Female is a full 3 inches shorter than my male, but she outweighs him by a good 5lbs. She's solid, he's fur.

I've never understood the TOY phenomenon. What do you want with a dog that can get lost in your purse?! Or a dog that loves everyone?!

My female is laid back, quite content to be a housedog, but she has a job and she knows it. She has nerves of steel when it comes to her job. My male is smart, but I sometimes wonder if he has a brain at all. The difference between the two is unreal.


On another note, this thread is fast becoming a trainwreck!

[Bluey]

Many working aussie breeders don't dock tails.
Here is my 1970's aussie, out of working parents, not quite what we have today, with all that flash.
She had her tail, that can be used to balance a dog.
Look at the bone on her and her head and ear shape, all aussie type:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a298/Robintoo/catanddog.jpg?t=1233530780

She was registered as blue merle, that she is, but is hard to see on her background color.
She was an outstanding herding dog, helping us drive 337 heifers for several miles, thru brush and up the caprocks, from their winter pastures to wheat grazing on the plains.

There were two riders and that dog and I think the dog took care of the whole herd, we really didn't have to do much other than open gates.:cool:

Our vet refused to spay her, he wanted one of her puppies so bad, until she was six.
We just don't breed dogs, so we never did. That is what breeders are for.:yes:

[Tha Ridge]

I second the Schipperke recommendation. They are lovely little dogs.

I personally have a Brussels Griffon - he weighs about 11 lbs., about 12 in. at the shoulder. He would make a lovely farm dog, even though I'm in the city. They are a very tough breed and were actually initially bred as stable dogs.

[Bluey]

Better than skipperkes, how about american eskimo spitz dogs?
These around here will work cattle well and are not roamers, like to stay home and with their people and stock.
They come in small and larger, that is still not very large.
There are several people around here breeding them and what I have seen were very neat dogs.
They are also very good ratters for a barn.

But, if the OP likes aussies, that is what she needs to get, even if miniature, but would think hard if you want toys.

The toys I have seen were inconsistent, some looked like shelties, others like pomeranians and just not quite like an aussie, but a cross and, more important, some didn't act like aussies, if their temperament is what draws you to them.

Here are some pictures of the little eskimo dogs:

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:NN4ur-YW4NUdsM::www.dogbreedinfo.com/images18/AmericanEskimoSpitzLitterMatesDukeDutchess.jpg

http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_eskimo_dog/index.cfm

[JER]

Going back to the OP...

You said you loved your parents' cattle dog but wanted something smaller than him.

Female cattle dogs are usually quite a bit smaller than the males. My female weighed about 28 pounds. (I've seen males up to 90 lbs.)

IMO the cattle dog/heeler is quite different from the Aussie shepherd. And if you love a cattle dog, there is no adequate substitute. :)

[WaningMoon]

I love schipperkes but I heard they have the spitz "run away" gene. Not always ideal for a horse farm. But am I wrong, do they stick around?


The two I know of (at separate farms) do not stray off ever. It would seem to not make much sense when you think about it and how they were ship dogs. How far could one go on a ship? I was right about that according to the sites I checked, about being used as ship dogs. I have never owned one but think they are great and the ones I know are great farm dogs.

[Jealoushe]

My toy/mini Aussie was about 30 lbs. She was small but not THAT small, and had a good solid build. I never considered her one of those tiny, pocket yappi dogs...

[Go Fish]

Okay I've dipped into the world of farm dogs, but I want a small, active, intelligent, trainable, watch dog type of dog.

You've just described a Corgi (Pems or Cardigans) to a tee. I admit I'm a Corgi owner, so a bit bias. I would stick with established herding breeds with a long history. Another breed that would fit your bill is the Shetland Sheepdog, but they are very vocal. Great watchdogs, though and good around livestock.

[IrishKJ]

I actually breed mini aussies myself. I have three and the two breeding dogs are true to type and look and act like aussies...just smaller. But it is true that some breeders are ONLY breeding for size and are therefore getting dogs that do not look like aussies at all. My dogs are all great around horses and are very smart. I am planning on having a litter this summer. Size should be around 15 -17" and 25 to 30 lbs. Here is my website if you are interested
www.freewebs.com/scoutitoutkennels.
Good luck in your search!
Kelly

[Astraled]

I have one. Showed up as a stray (posted all of this at UDBB so not going into it here).

I love her. She's about 12/13 inches tall and weighs 19 lbs. She's not barky, she's good with cats and horses. She sticks close to me when we're out. She's so affectionate and people oriented. She has a very sturdy build, it's most correct part of her (cobby and slightly longer than she is tall). Active outside but not in the house.

She does blow the breed standard all to hell. She has a tiny little pinhead with an underbite. She loves strangers. She is not interested in herding, or being a watchdog. :lol:


Not so bad from the side: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/astraled/zippy.jpg

But head on :http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/astraled/zippy2.jpg I think she really loses breed character. We call her the weird little badger.

All in all, I believe Zippy to be made from awesome. I love my GSD/Greyhound mix, too. I want to have one of each from now on.

[Equino]

I have a Sheltie and an Aussie. The Sheltie is by far the best dog I've ever had! He's got great herding instincts, very horse savy, alerts me to any visitors and is very, very loyal. I wanted a dog that would be people/dog friendly, but not more interested in them then me, meaning he is not going to go bonkers jumping all over other people or dogs. He will get yappy when people come, or when we're doing Agility and he's not sure what to do, otherwise he is SO serious, just wants to work. But I think I lucked out, for the most part all it takes is one SHUSH! and he quiets right down. My Aussie is wonderful too, but he's more standoffish and shy around strangers, and he's afraid of the horses, which is fine, I never have to worry about him getting too close. The Sheltie thinks he's supposed to help me if a horse gets loose or is being bad. But he does a wonderful job keeping the chickens where they are supposed to be and the farm goose-free!

Astralad-my Aussie has almost the same expression as yours!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30028034&l=f44db&id=1251447098
another one with the Sheltie
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30028036&l=781f1&id=1251447098

[Lyss]

I have both a standard Aussie, a neutered male tri, about 72 lbs and also a mini blue merle Aussie, also a neutered male at about 30 lbs (and he really should be a bit less!). I can't imagine not having an Aussie, for me, the temperament and type is perfect. My standard and mini are different in personality, but also share many characteristics such as very trainable, very loyal, easy to live with but both a bit shy with strangers, though my standard Aussie is older and has seem to outgrow his shyness and generally is friendly to everyone. If he's suspicious of someone, then I am. The mini is shy with strangers, generally tall men (but he does love my boss who is tall, smart dog, he knows really where his biscuits come from!), but both adore children and get along well with other animals. My older standard grew up with a couple of my homebred horses and while he doesn't seem to pay particular attention to horses in general other then if I am shooing off a horse in pasture, he always puts himself between me and the horse, but doesn't chase them. He did get stepped on as a pup and somehow this has translated into that he will only follow a horse at a great distance or if I'm not far from the barn while riding, he just watches from afar - which is not a bad trait at all. The mini, if in the presence of horses on their side of the fence so to speak, such as when I'm cleaning the paddock and he's hanging around me, will get out of their way if they even look at him - but if he's on the other side of the fence, it's a whole different story and will run at the fence to chase if he thinks I'm not looking. He knows it's not allowed and generally will cease and desist if he catches me looking at him - but he does have a stronger herding/prey drive then the standard - loves to chase birds, rabbits, etc. The standard seems to have an invisible leash attached to me and while he'll show interest in deer, turkeys, rabbits - if they are too far from me, he won't even bother, not from training, just the way he is. I would not trust the Mini though in the same way, however, he's pretty sure he'll catch a bird one of these days if he tries hard enough and is particulary annoyed by crows and vultures and will run around the pasture chasing circling vultures, whom I'm pretty sure have made a game out of taunting him! The mini has been so caught up in following birds that he has run smack into the fence or gate on several occassions - so while I do think he's a smart cookie for the most part, there are those times I do wonder what is going on in that little noggin! Our neighbor has sheep, which we sometimes let into our garden to eat down the weeds, etc. before we till - both dogs show interest and will circle the garden fence when the sheep are in there, but are not obsessed with them and generally go off and do their own thing after a couple minutes.

They are great dogs for active people who want to involve their dogs in their everyday lives and activities. I would not say mine are super physically hyper, the standard could be an apartment dog if he got a good walk everyday as he is very quiet in the house. The Mini is a far more mentally active dog that needs the interaction of training and things to do to keep him out of trouble (let's see, he has thus far duct taped himself to the carpet, taken out my CD's and dumped them into his water bowl, rearranged the ottoman several times if it's not where he likes it and doesn't chew my shoes, but puts them away for me where I can't find them, like right before I get ready for work!). I will also say the mini is a more vocal dog then my standard - but has been very responsive to training and very controllable once he knows what the rules are, but his nature is barky while the standard will only bark if something unusual is happening. I can't imagine life without them though and feel that they are very rewarding dogs to live with.

Pics of my mini when he isn't up to something:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/avondayfarm/714897755/in/set-72157600640806997/

My standard in one of his goofier poses - generally he's quite dignified!:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/avondayfarm/715776872/in/set-72157600640806997/

[Marengo]

My friend's standard Ausssie (the who wanted an Aussie without a docked tail but ended up getting a normal docked one) was really good around the horses except for one shetlandX pony. I saw her begin to run towards that pony a few times but she always obeyed 'leave it' and would circle back when told. Perhaps because the pony was so much smaller than the other horses she made a distinction.

[Ajierene]

Interestingly, I had a pug/beagle cross (a puggle before they were popular - he was a mistake dog) that could herd horses without any training from human or other dogs. A guy I galloped some horses for had an Australian Cattle Dog that he never trained to herd because he said the hardest part is getting them off the horse/cattle.

He would comment that my dog definitely had the skill to herd. He would go out, chase the horses and you could see his eyes watching those hooves. He would dart in, nip and dart out before the flashing hooves could get him. He was never trained, so the horses never went anywhere other then around and around the pasture and typical to his beagle breeding, once he had his mind on something he turned his ears off to my commands...what fun...

So, you know...puggle! Personally, I think it is a silly mix and the biggest problem is that they may ignore you when they get their mind on something, but he was very loyal and hated leaving my side. He tended towards timidness to strangers and other dogs, but not everyone in his litter was like that, so it may have just been him.

[RockingN]

Lyss- Thank you for that insight, that is the sort of stuff I am really interested in hearing. I think I am getting a mini, I'm fully prepared for the active dog-type. I want to do some agility, frisbee and herding tings, just don't want another 70# dog, thats why I want a mini. I'm buying from an awesome breeder with both working and showing lines.

Also, thank you all who did give me your own views. Everyone was very helpful and thank you for taking your time to help me.

I said in my original post that I knew that people hated the mini and toy version and I really don't care that you do hate them, but i'd knew I was going to get their opinions whether I said not to give them or not.

But thanks to all! I'll be getting my puppy this summer so I will post pics when my little fluff ball comes!

[Jealoushe]

Can't wait to see it!!!!!!!!

[WaningMoon]

Lyss- Thank you for that insight, that is the sort of stuff I am really interested in hearing. I think I am getting a mini, I'm fully prepared for the active dog-type. I want to do some agility, frisbee and herding tings, just don't want another 70# dog, thats why I want a mini. I'm buying from an awesome breeder with both working and showing lines.

Also, thank you all who did give me your own views. Everyone was very helpful and thank you for taking your time to help me.

I said in my original post that I knew that people hated the mini and toy version and I really don't care that you do hate them, but i'd knew I was going to get their opinions whether I said not to give them or not.

But thanks to all! I'll be getting my puppy this summer so I will post pics when my little fluff ball comes!

Cool, now just be very sure that this breeder is as awesome as you believe them to be. Good to start with the parent club of the breed and ask to who has true reputation within the breed as a breeder. As Im sure you know AKC is no guarantee of the quality of the dog. Good Luck with your soon to be new pup.

[Cielo Azure]

Lyss- Thank you for that insight, that is the sort of stuff I am really interested in hearing. I think I am getting a mini, I'm fully prepared for the active dog-type. I want to do some agility, frisbee and herding tings, just don't want another 70# dog, thats why I want a mini. I'm buying from an awesome breeder with both working and showing lines.

Also, thank you all who did give me your own views. Everyone was very helpful and thank you for taking your time to help me.

I said in my original post that I knew that people hated the mini and toy version and I really don't care that you do hate them, but i'd knew I was going to get their opinions whether I said not to give them or not.

But thanks to all! I'll be getting my puppy this summer so I will post pics when my little fluff ball comes!

With all Aussies -here are the minimum requirements.
1. Eyes. Parents must be recently CERFed.
2. HIPS- OFA or Pennhip. Good or excellent. Do not settle for average. some people want elbows too.
3. Do you want to know status of drug resistance gene of the parents?
4. Epilepsy. You want a guarantee that there have been no cases of idiopathic epilepsy for parents, aunts, siblings, grandparents. You want a money back guarantee for epilepsy.
5. You want to meet the parents.

(As a note, I would be suspicious of anyone who has both working and show lines). I don't give a hooey about "lines." I want to see TITLES or I want to see the animals work. They should be able to provide video or photo evidence of parents working, as well as titles. Every pet quality dog out there have show and working "lines." That means nothing.

I occassionally breed and have been VERY active in ASCA and trialing/helping put on shows. I know the dog show/trialing world very well. What you have written about someone owning both show and working lines and having THAT many dogs sends me into disbelief as to the quality. That is just WAY to many dogs unless it is a kennel type set-up, which do not create great pets. The amount of house time each pup will get will be minimal. Furthermore, great breeders do not have both lines. They concentrate on one or the other (with a very few who are working towards MVA). As I said, LINES is the line that backyard/puppymills use. What shows has the parents won, what titles are on the parents?

Anyway, what you have written suggests many, many red flags for me. Tread carefully.

Also, I own five Aussies, and not one weighs even close ot 70 POUNDS!!!!

[Aussie_Dog]

Whats the reason behind the docked tail?

When the Aussie would go herding, he'd be running through brambles and bush, and that's a problem for the Aussie, because he has a sensitive tail that tears easily. So they'd dock the tail to protect the dog (those with happy-tail dogs know how long and painful the healing process is). Border Collies keep their tails because of how they tuck it in (my theory anyway). The Aussie would let it flow free and when intact, that tail can be beautiful and thick and just gorgeous. Until a branch snags it and rips the hair from the tail.

My Aussie/BC mix has his tail, and I just love grooming it, because it's so thick and lush. If we're on a walk and he's holding it up like a flag, my eyes gravitate towards it and don't notice anything else until he lowers the tail and focuses on a bush or something, lol. But it is sensitive, and I have to be careful of hitting snags, because Jake feels it and doesn't much like it.

There's a website out there devoted to someone's pictures of her Black tri Aussie, who has a tail, and it's just GORGEOUS. However, I can never find it, so I've only seen it a couple times.

[Bluey]

With all Aussies -here are the minimum requirements.
1. Eyes. Parents must be recently CERFed.
2. HIPS- OFA or Pennhip. Good or excellent. Do not settle for average. some people want elbows too.
3. Do you want to know status of drug resistance gene of the parents?
4. Epilepsy. You want a guarantee that there have been no cases of idiopathic epilepsy for parents, aunts, siblings, grandparents. You want a money back guarantee for epilepsy.
5. You want to meet the parents.

(As a note, I would be suspicious of anyone who has both working and show lines). I don't give a hooey about "lines." I want to see TITLES or I want to see the animals work. They should be able to provide video or photo evidence of parents working, as well as titles. Every pet quality dog out there have show and working "lines." That means nothing.

I occassionally breed and have been VERY active in ASCA and trialing/helping put on shows. I know the dog show/trialing world very well. What you have written about someone owning both show and working lines and having THAT many dogs sends me into disbelief as to the quality. That is just WAY to many dogs unless it is a kennel type set-up, which do not create great pets. The amount of house time each pup will get will be minimal. Furthermore, great breeders do not have both lines. They concentrate on one or the other (with a very few who are working towards MVA). As I said, LINES is the line that backyard/puppymills use. What shows has the parents won, what titles are on the parents?

Anyway, what you have written suggests many, many red flags for me. Tread carefully.

Also, I own five Aussies, and not one weighs even close ot 70 POUNDS!!!!

Me too, red flags about someone breeding both sizes to start with, then again to brag about "lines", not what the dogs have done.
Too close to think that looks like a backyard puppy mill place, unless you go see in person and they can tell you how they are training the dogs and where all they go compete with them.

People with really top breeding dogs rarely have puppies available all the time and of different breeds and sizes, especially when there is no such thing as different sizes in aussies, other than the very recent fads of mini and toy sizes.

[tx3dayeventer]

If you really want a quality working dog. We got a red merle male from Hart Aussies and he is small (about 3 inches taller than my mini) but BOY can he WORK a cow!!! They are pricey but when you need a working dog, you get what you pay for.

Here is their website: http://www.hartsaussiestockdogs.com/

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Be prepared to pay... I like toys, BUT, having said that, i've only seen THREE toys i liked! 13" or under sounds like a "good little dog" but its REALLY A LITTLE DOG when it comes to an aussie. I breed mini's on the "large side." My dogs have standard aussie breeding back there that just stayed under sized. My adult female weighs 20# at 16", my male 30# 17". This is not a big heavy dog, its a good medium. The standard aussies i used to own were 45# plus. I went to minis because my feet must have "STEP ON ME" wrote on them in big flashing letters... :) My last standard passed away in December.

Back to my original statement. BE PREPARED TO PAY. GOOD is NOT cheap! And by cheap, i mean anything under $600. Most of those dogs parents are not hip/eye certified, come with guarantees, puppy vet checks, and have lost type somewhere in there.

That being said, i know my dogs are not totally to type for the breed comformation ring. My female is a working dog, she does agility and wants to herd but i havent gone that route with her. My male is a protector, he does not have a working bone in his body... LOL... but NO ONE is coming in my house un-invited. If something is wrong in the house or outside, he comes and tells me. I dont know what my puppy will turn out like other than to say that right now, she is attached to my 3 month son. I do believe she will be HIS dog.

My dogs go to shows with us. While socialized, they are reserved about strangers and prefer to make up their mind about you over time, not just happy jump in your face right away types.

These dogs need EXCERSIZE! Even my lazy boy likes to go for walks and does all the chores with me.

Good luck with your buying excersion! There are so many breeders out there now, its so hard to weed out the garbage. When i went on the hunt for my male i searched non-stop for a month and was ready to yank my hair out. I could not BELIEVE the garbage being bred!

Toy aussies should not have any non-aussie blood in them, someone above posted they thought it was a Pom or Papillon cross, unfortunately, they have been poorely bred to look that way with bubble heads and short little noses. They should NOT be that way. If you want a GOOD toy, be prepared to pay 2k. The 3 i have seen that i actually liked were over that price tag. Be aware though, they were bred for conformation shows, they had no work ethic and were a bit of a yipey type of dog. I just thought they actually LOOKED aussie.

Just my two cents!

[Lyss]

RockingN,

Both of my Aussies, the standard and the mini, came from breeders. The breeder of my standard also boards my young filly, so I see her dogs all the time and have seen the whole family - they breed more for conformation show types with excellent temperaments and while my standard may be a big boy at 70lbs plus - he is not a fat boy, just good bone - beautiful structure and movement actually. I never thought of him really being big in comparison to others I have seen in my area. My mini however, at 30 lbs and about 18" is "heavy" for his size (he is finer boned for his size then the standard is at his size) and while we go on at least one if not two long walks/runs daily and he is often busy with me at work and chores, I really have to watch his weight - he is a chow hound and will eat just about anything, whereas my standard is much easier to maintain weight wise. I've had a few standard Aussies and I don't think I recall ever having a weight issue with them, but this is my first mini and I'm surprised that after his somewhat picky eater phase as a puppy, he would end up being "plumpish" (we refer to him sometimes as the baby fur seal or penguin). I did see the mother of my mini, she of course had just been nursing pups, so seemed appropriate for her size and I saw pics of the sire, and he was also "size" appropriate - so I don't know if the chubby gene may be in the general mini population or just my little oompa loompa - but you might ask the breeder about that. Both my dogs do come from eyes and hips certified parents and agree with the other posters that this is important to verify with the breeders of your future puppy.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Lyss,
I think your "oompa loompa" kid isnt really the norm on minis. Love the oompa loompa nick name... he he he... A mini shouldnt act or be any different than a standard. I personally havent had an issue with minis being heavier or picky eaters. My male is closer to a "heavier" weight than most minis, but he is by no means overweight, he has very good bone as where my two girls are slightly more refined. I think the weight is determined by bloodlines, some are finer boned than others.

Have you had his thyroid checked? It could possibly be something off with that or some other weird reason that he is retaining weight the way he is. Possibly something to look into, especially if he is active and being fed the right amount? My parents just had a similar issue with their chihuahua is why i mention it. I dont remember the exacts of what it was, i just know he went on meds for a couple weeks, fixed the issue, and he's losing weight now. He was otherwise very healthy looking and acted like he's always acted... Not saying your guy has any problems whatsoever! But maybe something to ask about at his next vet visit.

[Party Rose]

One of the paddock stewards at the Oaks last year had hers with her all day as she worked in the booth. The time I spent with the dog was awesome. Perfect temperament, size, adorable......... Go for it and don't worry about what the regular size Aussie breeders say. It's your dog!

[Rhyadawn]

both my dogs are oversized standards. I know that. Both my dogs have been placed due to bad previous ownership. Beautiful wonderful perfect dogs for me, but I knew what I was getting into.

I wish you all the best with your pup. But please please make sure this is the right breed for you before you get your new baby. These are one person/family dogs, they don't rehome well.

[RockingN]

I didn't mean to say working "lines" like that. What I meant was, the dogs all have titles with associations you can see the rankings on the associations website, about 3-4 of the top 10 dogs are hers. But her dogs can also work. I have seen video footage of them herding sheep and agility and other activities. Thats what I meant by working lines and breeding lines. I'm sorry if I used those terms wrong and confused everyone. I got this breeders info from someone here on CLOTH and I have done LOTS of research on these dogs and this place. I have contacted other breeders and have talked to a few people about the particular breeder that im interested in. She doesn't have an extreme amount of dogs. It's not a puppy mill. I have a lot of experience with dogs, I learned a lot from my father who used to train police dogs and protection and basically all sorts of training, he also used to breed so he taught me the ropes and he has helped me with this process also to make sure I pick a great breeder who has healthy dogs. I'm happy with picking this place and I know I'm going to get a great dog. Thank you all for your help, all the information was very helpful in making my decision!

[Bluey]

I didn't mean to say working "lines" like that. What I meant was, the dogs all have titles with associations you can see the rankings on the associations website, about 3-4 of the top 10 dogs are hers. But her dogs can also work. I have seen video footage of them herding sheep and agility and other activities. Thats what I meant by working lines and breeding lines. I'm sorry if I used those terms wrong and confused everyone. I got this breeders info from someone here on CLOTH and I have done LOTS of research on these dogs and this place. I have contacted other breeders and have talked to a few people about the particular breeder that im interested in. She doesn't have an extreme amount of dogs. It's not a puppy mill. I have a lot of experience with dogs, I learned a lot from my father who used to train police dogs and protection and basically all sorts of training, he also used to breed so he taught me the ropes and he has helped me with this process also to make sure I pick a great breeder who has healthy dogs. I'm happy with picking this place and I know I'm going to get a great dog. Thank you all for your help, all the information was very helpful in making my decision!

Sounds like you are on your way to a wonderful puppy.:cool:
Great that you did all that work and checked the breeder so well and know where your dog will come from and what the parents have done.
There is nothing sure in life, but you did stack the odds in your favor.:yes:

Don't forget to post some pictures, please?:)

[Cielo Azure]

I didn't mean to say working "lines" like that. What I meant was, the dogs all have titles with associations you can see the rankings on the associations website, about 3-4 of the top 10 dogs are hers. But her dogs can also work. I have seen video footage of them herding sheep and agility and other activities. Thats what I meant by working lines and breeding lines. I'm sorry if I used those terms wrong and confused everyone. I got this breeders info from someone here on CLOTH and I have done LOTS of research on these dogs and this place. I have contacted other breeders and have talked to a few people about the particular breeder that im interested in. She doesn't have an extreme amount of dogs. It's not a puppy mill. I have a lot of experience with dogs, I learned a lot from my father who used to train police dogs and protection and basically all sorts of training, he also used to breed so he taught me the ropes and he has helped me with this process also to make sure I pick a great breeder who has healthy dogs. I'm happy with picking this place and I know I'm going to get a great dog. Thank you all for your help, all the information was very helpful in making my decision!

Fantastic!

I didn't mean to sound persnickity, I just see people getting taken by "breeders" all the time.

It really doesn't cost more to buy quality purebred dogs, it just takes the time to do your homework and find quality breeders!

Geez, I hear these stories of dogs with epilepsy or dyspasia and just the diagnostics alone cost tons of money. But then, after people don't do their homework, buy from a BYB or puppymill who don't screen their dogs, and then they will blame the breed (all sorts of breeds, not just Ausses) for all the ills. Just some basic homework and "passing" on pups, no matter how cute who aren't health checked/screened, will yield huge benefit. It actually is a benefit of buying purebred these days. We have so many good tests now. No one ever does health screening on mutts and despite what people believe, on the whole, their rates of genetic issues are just as great as purebred. There is a study somewhere...

It costs about $200-$300 to get hips checked. $50 for OFA. And that is times two. The other screening tests cost big money too. So, the breeder is in about $600.-$800. before they ever breed and even more if a dog washes out on one of the tests. Market place determines value of pups and buyers won't pay that much more for health screened animals, so the high quality breeders actually eats a lot of these costs (they don't get passed on to the buyers). So, tt is worth getting pups, no matter what breed, that have the checks! Off my pedastal now (grin).

And good luck with the pup, a new puppy is SO fun!!!

[okggo]

Bump!
I've been following this thread as I just purchased a mini puppy, and are anxiously waiting for her to be old enough to bring home! I got to meet her parents and was VERY impressed, they were not the yippee-yappie dogs I was figuring they would be. Attentive, obedient, and just a little too small to fall into the regular breed standard, hence they are "minis."

I'm really excited about it, we have 2 already and were looking for a smaller dog because of space limitations (we have a Mastiff and a very old style BIG English lab). It is hard when you small dog hunt, not to find something that falls into the small dog stereotype. I can't stand excessive hyper, yappee, and I really pray this one is not like that. She'll have a job, get plenty of exercise, have 10 acres to work on, but when the dogs come in the house I prefer for them to rest vs try to destroy it. She'll have very good role models, both of ours now take outside duties very seriously and inside is for napping. And we are hoping to finally have a dog to do agility with. Our lab is basically retired and his job is just to keep us all company. He is older and his hips aren't doing too well, so we don't push him. The Mastiff we are going to use for therapy work, she is incredibly laid back and very good natured. She would be laughable at agility though. She is a bit.....lazy.

[Release First]

I agree that the standards for AKC registered breeds are not demanding that a dog go out there and prove that it can do what it was bred to to, be it a greyhound running, a terrier killing rats or a herding dog bringing the sheep home.
All it takes to get a dog of any breed registered is that both parents are registered, even if they have never done any other than breathe and eat.
Then, the same for all other breeds, that you can register their dogs if they have two registered parents, they too don't have to go prove they can do anything.
Where is the difference with the AKC there?

JRTCA will only register dogs after they are a year old and have been checked for the genetic problems that often show up after 8 weeks of age. This and the fact that they are breeding for temperament and working ability is the best reason that I can think of to buy JRTCA and not a Parsons Russell.

[Astraled]

Congrats on your new puppy, Okggo. You won't be sorry. I love mine. :yes:

[RockingN]

OOOH! Congrats Okggo! Posts pics when you can! I'd love to see them! Also, if they have a website could you PM me? I have put a deposit down as well! My puppy won't be ready until Summer though! But they are not born yet. 3 Litters are coming and all of the parents are OUTSTANDING. I am so excited! Cannot wait until summer!

[Arizona DQ]

Gads, I hate these BYB that "toy" and "mini" dogs that ARE NOT supposed to be that way!!! Responsible breeders breed to standard for what the dog was originally bred for. :(
Not a flame.....

I know a lady with a mini aussie. Cute, yeah, but working ability/instinct, NIL! He is a red, not merle at all.

THANK You!!!!! These "breeders" see the money coming in from naive people who think they are getting something "special"... Yup, they sure are - a High priced Mutt. Designer dogs are just a fancy name for Mutts and demand higher prices. :mad: Geesh, there are over 150 dog breeds recognized by the AKC. Surely there is a dog for anyone who wants a purebred. Personally, I would vote for the corgi or a nice shetland sheepdog from working lines.....;)

[birdsong]

WOW, I had a toy Aussie for 6 years and she was the love of my life!! She was an absolute angel, great around the horses, loyal and really easy to train. She never strayed, didn't bark much and was the cuddliest fluffiest thing ever. Some pics:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/photo.php?pid=4861&id=510448702

flip through the album

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2067560&id=89904871#/photo.php?pid=32418592&id=89904871

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2067560&id=89904871#/photo.php?pid=32418602&id=89904871

Question....When I click on the addy it requires me to sign up...have seen this before and didn't ask...do you have to be a member to see the photos that people post?

[Bluey]

Question....When I click on the addy it requires me to sign up...have seen this before and didn't ask...do you have to be a member to see the photos that people post?

I don't know, but I think that in some sites you can set your preferences so only people you give the password can get in to look at what you posted.

[Cielo Azure]

I don't get the whole facebook thing either. It is a private club folks, some of us chose not to join. We can't see those photos, if we click on the link. I don't belong, won't belong to facebook. I know now not to bother clicking on facebook links -a waste of time.

[Hannahsmom]

Fantastic!

I didn't mean to sound persnickity, I just see people getting taken by "breeders" all the time.

It really doesn't cost more to buy quality purebred dogs, it just takes the time to do your homework and find quality breeders!

Geez, I hear these stories of dogs with epilepsy or dyspasia and just the diagnostics alone cost tons of money. But then, after people don't do their homework, buy from a BYB or puppymill who don't screen their dogs, and then they will blame the breed (all sorts of breeds, not just Ausses) for all the ills. Just some basic homework and "passing" on pups, no matter how cute who aren't health checked/screened, will yield huge benefit. It actually is a benefit of buying purebred these days. We have so many good tests now. No one ever does health screening on mutts and despite what people believe, on the whole, their rates of genetic issues are just as great as purebred. There is a study somewhere...

It costs about $200-$300 to get hips checked. $50 for OFA. And that is times two. The other screening tests cost big money too. So, the breeder is in about $600.-$800. before they ever breed and even more if a dog washes out on one of the tests. Market place determines value of pups and buyers won't pay that much more for health screened animals, so the high quality breeders actually eats a lot of these costs (they don't get passed on to the buyers). So, tt is worth getting pups, no matter what breed, that have the checks! Off my pedastal now (grin).

And good luck with the pup, a new puppy is SO fun!!!

Well said. Anyone calling themselves a breeder should be doing these tests and providing the proof (including the DNA) for both sire and dam when buying a puppy. Yes, one can buy lovely healthy dogs and mixed breeds that don't have issues, but personally, if I'm going to buy a purebred dog, I expect to buy from a breeder that does all the OFA, CERF, etc.

[RockingN]

I just got my new puppy on wed and I absolutely love him!! I decided to get a mini and he is so cool. I have some pics.. he's so hard to get pics of because he's always under me! Lol but I love how he loves to follow me everywhere! He is 8 week old!
The other dog in the photos is my roommates rescue dog from hurricane Katrina.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/BayBGirl/100_0479.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/BayBGirl/100_0480.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/BayBGirl/100_0481.jpg

[BasqueMom]

Absolutely darling!

[Alagirl]

I have not read any of the responses.

So, here it goes: I am extremely vary of so called 'miniature' versions of a breed. Some have been around for a long time and have been selected for that, including health, but way too many are brand new, to fit the market of the extravagant. tea cups, toys and such.

One example is the 'mascot dalmatian' supposedly bred to be the Dal for small spaces, developed from terriers no less...so much for your apartment dweller! A Great Dane is a better companion for that!

so choose wisely, don't let size get you

[Bluey]

That pup is a real handsome little fellow.:cool:

[RockingN]

These are much better

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/BayBGirl/100_0512.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/BayBGirl/100_0511.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/BayBGirl/100_0499.jpg

Chasing his ball
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/BayBGirl/100E0506.jpg

[Parker_Rider]

ohhh he's so cute!!!! he looks just like my mom's mini, who's a half brother to my mini. Wonderful breed, it looks like you definitely got a cutie on your hands!! :) Hope you have so much fun with him! what did you name him???

[Alagirl]

weeeeeeeee! Walking (and sleeping) fur ball, what a cuty!