Really pushing for strides--pain issue?

[amastrike]

I was jumping my horse today through a gymnastic (a long bounce--six 15" "jumps"), and walked the strides out normally.. I've free-jumped him and set up lines many times, and I can typically walk the strides so it's comfortable for him. Today, though, he was having an extremely hard time getting through.. he was basically galloping to get the striding. At one point, he took the first one long, and actually managed to put a stride in a bounce. I haven't really jumped him in probably 4 months, but he has done a couple gymnastics free jumping in that time, and the strides always work for him. I shortened it, and he did it more easily, but there was still a little bit of a reach to get through.

I don't know if he was backed off a little because I was riding in a pelham (our jumping bit.. he gets extremely fast and heavy, and it's the only thing that I've found that makes him almost manageable... and yes, I am working on the underlying training problem). I haven't ridden in the pelham in about 4 months, but I was very careful to keep the curb rein loose, so I don't really think it could have had much of an effect on him. It's a hard rubber mullen mouth, by the way.

Are there any pain problems that could lead him to struggle so much through the gymnastic? He is older (22), and has been on joint supplements for two years. He also gets regular chiropractic care. I'll talk to the vet/chiro about this when she comes in about a month, but in the meantime, any info? I'll probably try the gymnastic again in a few days and see if he does better... maybe not jumping in a while threw him off a bit.

I want to try Adequan or Legend, but his owner really does not want to do injections unless it's strongly veterinarian recommended... although, I think she thought I was asking about intra-articular injections, and I certainly wouldn't want to do that.

[Raquel]

You haven't jumped him in four months, I would chalk it up to being a little rusty.
Maybe next time lose the pelham and give him some time to get his mind back into jumping.:D

[amastrike]

LOL, the problem with losing the pelham is that if he gets his mind back in jumping, it's very hard to STOP him :winkgrin: .

Oh, I should say that we have done a little vertical (like 18") here and there, but this is the first time in months I've done any serious jumping.

[jetsmom]

Cold weather may be making him a little stiff/creaky.

If you are now riding indoors, that will back a lot of horses off. Try hand galloping before jumping to loosen him up and open up his strides.

[Mendin Fences]

I think he's just fat and out of shape. :winkgrin: Relatively of course.

[BornToRide]

Has he ever been in a simialar situation and reacted like this? Did anything in his diet change recently?

[Bluehorsesjp]

If you are jumping inside I would shorten the distances a little bit anyway.
We set the jumps inside 3 feet short of what you would when you ride outside.
I would attribute a lot of it to being rusty.

[Seven-up]

What was the distance in the bounce?


And did I read that correct that you had six jumps? As in six bounces?? I hope I read that wrong.



When I was a kid, and learning about gymnastics, it was a cardinal sin to have more than about 4 jumps in it. 5 was the absolute max. More than that was just too hard on the horse. I'd never use more than 3 bounces in a row. The same thing applied to cavalletti. No more than 4 in a row. Is that something other people were taught, too?

[JB]

What was the distance in the bounce?
Good question. The distance set for a horse who has been in regular work for a while, has been suppled over time, is fit, and is used to bounce work, is not necessarily a doable distance for a horse who has been off for 4 months. Not to mention SIX of this is a lot for that horse.

And did I read that correct that you had six jumps? As in six bounces?? I hope I read that wrong.
In and of itself, I don't see a problem with that - at only 15", that's just a little exaggerated canter stride. I do agree that 6, at this point in the horse's "come back", is tooooo many.

When I was a kid, and learning about gymnastics, it was a cardinal sin to have more than about 4 jumps in it. 5 was the absolute max. More than that was just too hard on the horse. I'd never use more than 3 bounces in a row.
If you're talking actual jump efforts, I think I'd agree.

The same thing applied to cavalletti. No more than 4 in a row. Is that something other people were taught, too?
4 cavaletti? How restricting! ;) I have worked my guy up to 12 trot poles - been a while, but he was perfectly fine with it. I wouldn't do anywhere near 12 if the poles were raised, and certainly not if they were the X cavaletti rolled to their full height. But if the poles were raised a couple of inches, 4 isn't much if you work up to that. 6 is probably where I'd stop. And actually, I prefer odd numbers if doing trot work. An even number of poles means there's an odd number of strides, which means you can accidentally get one side of the horse worked a bit more than the other if he manages to always reach over the first pole with the same leg.

[amastrike]

The distance was originally set to ~9 feet. Normally, three of my strides equals one of my horses. It was shortened by a few inches.

My horse hasn't been off for 4 months, we just haven't really done any jumping in 4 months. He's ridden regularly and is in pretty decent shape. I have free jumped him a time or two in that period (and it was probably a bounce), and the strides worked fine for him then. And he was pushing when the poles were set to 9" high... definitely not hard. We only did the six 15" thing 2-3 times in each direction, then it was changed up so there were one strides and fun stuff in there.

[JB]

Still, I think that 4 months off from any jumping is a long enough time that 6 bounces at 9" was a lot to ask.

you'll just have to play around to get a feel for whether that was a one-time thing, or if he's going to struggle through those for a while. Take it down to 3 cavaletti for a while.

[BornToRide]

She said he was not off for 4 months, just had slightly less work than normal.

I would look at basics, making sure he's getting enough selenium and magnesium for example, that he did not tweak his hind end in any way, and that joint problems are not the issue either. If non of this could be a factor I would dig deeper, like considering perhaps ulcers.

[Seven-up]

I bet the root of his problem is caused by steel shoes. :lol::lol::lol:





Isn't this an older horse? Doesn't he have/used to have soundness issues? My apologies if I'm thinking of another horse.


I think six bounces in a row is entirely too much, even for a fit horse. Bounces are hard on a horse. If you feel it's absolutely necessary to do that, what's wrong with groundpoles? If an average or larger horse can fit a stride into a 9 ft. bounce, he either a) doesn't understand it, b) is holding back because it hurts and he's trying to tell you it's too much, or c) is coming into the line with way less impulsion than he needs.


What exactly is the training goal for needing 6 bounces? What are you trying to accomplish? (Please don't misread my tone here-- I'm not being harsh, I'm genuinely interested in what the point is.)

[amastrike]

Again, not four months off from ALL jumping, just that time off from *serious* jumping. We've popped over the occasional crossrail or little vertical, he's been free-jumped a couple times over bigger/more complicated stuff.

Seven-up, he's older, but no soundness issues (he's been off from time to time, but always an acute injury).

Vet/chiro comments on what fabulous shape he's in. The bounce was little more than elevated poles. He was pushing when they were 9 inches high. It was a little easier at 15" when I shortened it a little. Purpose for 6 obstacles? That's how many fit comfortably on the long side of the ring :lol: . I like bounces because they make him really use his hindquarters, and he can't rush through them. Also, it was useful to have more poles out, because it made it easy to modify the exercise (change to include a one stride to a crossrail, for instance). Again, we only did the 15" one a few times in each direction, so it's not like it was terribly stressful. He had lots of breaks and didn't have a problem with the exercise other than having a hard time getting the strides.

Looking at the video of him, it does seem like impulsion was the problem. I'll try doing it again in a few days, and I'll use the snaffle on him. He felt more forward today than he did yesterday, so maybe the pelham was backing him off. We did flat today, and he was wonderful, very soft and responsive, and using his hindquarters. If it persists, I'll mention it to the vet when she comes out.

BTR, he gets Source in his SmartPaks, and has a mineral block in his stall which has Se and probably mag.

[MsM]

My first suspect would be a hindend issue. Sounds like he doesnt want to push off behind and when he goes faster he lands on his forehand.
I have seen this with hock/arthritis issues. He may never have had these issues, but they may have developed to the point where they just now are starting to bother him. He may get better as he warms up in this case. Also (in 20/20 hindsight) my horse's hind tendon injury was first noticeable as a reluctance to move honestly foreward and a tendency to drop onto his forehand. I would have a vet check for my peace of mind. Better to know what, if anything, you are dealing with and be able to work or rest him appropriately early!

[BornToRide]

BTR, he gets Source in his SmartPaks, and has a mineral block in his stall which has Se and probably mag.Yes, but in many cases this also has turned out not to be enough and the horse needed extra. It's easy to test and then you can go from there :)