Natal update

[showjumpers66]

I have heard that he may be available for breeding in 2009. :D

[EquineLVR]

Thats very cool - my mares' grand dam is his dam! :)

[CathyKb]

I have heard that he may be available for breeding in 2009. :D

Where will he be standing??? Also I would still like to see pics of his foals and did he reproduce his color in any of them?

[EquineLVR]

Where will he be standing??? Also I would still like to see pics of his foals and did he reproduce his color in any of them?


Hmm maybe we are not talking the same Natal... This is the one I was refering to:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/natal4

[CathyKb]

I maybe thinking of the wrong stallion, I thought the brindle stallion was named Natal.

[EquineLVR]

I maybe thinking of the wrong stallion, I thought the brindle stallion was named Natal.


that is true also...

[showjumpers66]

Yes, different Natal. It is this one - http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/natal9 I think he had 2 live foals and 1 was brindle.

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3359011

[DownYonder]

Barb, sounds like you have a secret. Want to share? :lol:

[RiddleMeThis]

His owner posted on another forum and I thought I would share it here since I know people will be curious, and many questions are answered on that thread.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/new-here-248263.html

[IceshaC]

The brindle Natal is ALSO standing 2009, in case people are confused. He is owed by a partnership and is standing for the time being in Lexington KY.

[CathyKb]

Welcome IceshaC!! Beautiful boy! Just curious, what color were the dams of the brindle foals.

[showjumpers66]

This was the Natal I was speaking of. :D Very cool that he will be available to mare owners!

The brindle Natal is ALSO standing 2009, in case people are confused :winkgrin:

http://stoneybrookefarm.com/horses/Natal/

[Blonde Filly]

This was the Natal I was speaking of. :D Very cool that he will be available to mare owners!

I have followed this stallion for sometime and saw him in KY at Stoneybrooke Farm in the fall of 2005. I have yet some 4 years later to see one single photo of just ONE foal!!! Not one photo on the web site of a SINGLE foal!!! Does anyone have a foal by him? Does anyone have a photo of a foal by him? It makes one wonder about what he is or is not throwing!!! :confused: Why wouldn't the farm that owns/stands him not have one foal by him on their web site? It seems they bred everything to Quick Cut and Rulers Court...none listed by Natal????? I would love to see some photos.

[Texarkana]

I have followed this stallion for sometime and saw him in KY at Stoneybrooke Farm in the fall of 2005. I have yet some 4 years later to see one single photo of just ONE foal!!! Not one photo on the web site of a SINGLE foal!!! Does anyone have a foal by him? Does anyone have a photo of a foal by him? It makes one wonder about what he is or is not throwing!!! :confused: Why wouldn't the farm that owns/stands him not have one foal by him on their web site? It seems they bred everything to Quick Cut and Rulers Court...none listed by Natal????? I would love to see some photos.

I've also kept an eye on this stallion and wondered the same thing about the lack of foal photos. I'm not trying to jump to conclusions, I'm just curious as to why they don't even make mention of the few foals he has on the ground. Especially since once is supposedly brindle. You'd think they would shout that from the rooftops...

[showjumpers66]

For inquiring minds, I have this straight from Doni Biggs (Natal's owner).

Some of you may remember Doni Biggs, who stood or was importer/ affiliated with such stallions as Gonzo I, Rainbow, Ironman, Schonfeld, et al. Despite a quiet "semi-retirement," Doni stumbled upon & imported Natal Clasi (known in jumping circles as "El Tigre") from Brazil in late Summer, 2005.

Upon release from quarantine, she immediately took him to the RPSI approvals. Shortly thereafter, he was leased to a talented young rider, Renick Townsend, to transition into & to compete in the jumpers on the Eastern Seaboard & FL. During this lease, it was decided that he would not be available to the public with his busy circuit schedules.

However, he was quickly test-bred, producing two U.S. foals, one of which was presented to RPSI, going silver Premium in 2008. He is bay brindle & lovely. Doni also showed us an email from his breeders about one their Natal babies, also brindle.

After the multi-year lease expired, Natal moved to Stoneybrooke Farm this fall to "let down." He is currently standing there, albeit, temporarily. There is a syndicate in the works and he will be relocated to a large warmblood breeding facility once the details are finalized.

Doni is more than happy to share his full history with anyone who is interested.

[S A McKee]

He is certainly interesting looking.

But some of the 'story' just doesn't track.

He is being touted as doing Mini Prix. He really shows as a Childrens Jumper with a few outings at level 5.

He showed in 2006-2007 but did not show at all in 2008. And the schedule for 2006-2007 isn't really 'busy'.
So the statement about being let down in the fall is a bit odd. Let down from what? He hadn't shown in the year previous.

There are claims that he is RPSI approved but he isn't in Book I or book II. Perhaps they just didn't activate him?

I'd really like to see pictures of the brindle foals. Any chance that you can get pics and post them here?

[ljshorses]

A colt by him was presented last year at our farm's RPSI inspection. They said he was born brindle but he appeared plain bay. He was definitely nice though. Wonderful movement and wonderful conformation. He seemed to have an excellent temperament as well. I was told they expected his brindle color to reappear once he sheds out. I was quite impressed with this guy. I am not a "color" breeder although I enjoy unusual colored horses. I think conformation and temperament should always come first with color being 3rd. If this guy sheds out to be brindle again I'd say wow because he definitely had the movement and temperament.

[Texarkana]

Per Winter Heaven Farm's website (http://winterheavenfarm.com/), they were supposed to have an '08 foal by him. Again... nothing has been said since. Granted they haven't been as active about updating their website lately, but still...

My inquiry about his foals is 100% innocent. I really am intrigued by this stallion and have always been curious as to why there has been such little public mention of his foals. Brindle horses themselves are extremely rare... let alone a competitive stallion with a nice disposition who has supposedly reproduced his unique color multiple times in very limited breedings.

[Texarkana]

A colt by him was presented last year at our farm's RPSI inspection. They said he was born brindle but he appeared plain bay. He was definitely nice though. Wonderful movement and wonderful conformation. He seemed to have an excellent temperament as well. I was told they expected his brindle color to reappear once he sheds out. I was quite impressed with this guy. I am not a "color" breeder although I enjoy unusual colored horses. I think conformation and temperament should always come first with color being 3rd. If this guy sheds out to be brindle again I'd say wow because he definitely had the movement and temperament.

...so they DO exist. ;) :D

[Blonde Filly]

Per Winter Heaven Farm's website (http://winterheavenfarm.com/), they were supposed to have an '08 foal by him. Again... nothing has been said since. Granted they haven't been as active about updating their website lately, but still...

My inquiry about his foals is 100% innocent. I really am intrigued by this stallion and have always been curious as to why there has been such little public mention of his foals. Brindle horses themselves are extremely rare... let alone a competitive stallion with a nice disposition who has supposedly reproduced his unique color multiple times in very limited breedings.

I too would just like to see A PHOTO...JUST ONE would be nice...I don't care what color it is..but after 4 years and not ONE person can produce a photo of just ONE of his offspring.

For those who have dealt with Doni...well I'll leave it at that...nice lady, but the stories never seem to add up. She can produce photos of him, but none of A SINGLE foal.

Glad to know there is one foal on the ground and who cares if he is bay...just a photo would be nice. And why say a foal was born brindle and then lost his color and will get it back...again who cares...just let us see a foal by him. To reproduce brindles would be very slim chances and I guess they are banking on lots of brindles to make a name for him and money off of selling him...does not seem he is making a living off of stud fees in the last 4 years or even foals by him.

I went to see this horse in person and I too am interested in seeing a foal. How would you ever get semen if you can't see one photo of a foal??? :confused:

[showjumpers66]

Here is the colt - http://www.photostockplus.com/home.php?tmpl=33&user_id=18633&action=show_all_photos&event=207089

Doni sent photos of colt showing the striped pattern up close, but I'll have to post them tomorrow along with answers to all of the questions.

[ljshorses]

I too would just like to see A PHOTO...JUST ONE would be nice...I don't care what color it is..but after 4 years and not ONE person can produce a photo of just ONE of his offspring.

For those who have dealt with Doni...well I'll leave it at that...nice lady, but the stories never seem to add up. She can produce photos of him, but none of A SINGLE foal.

Glad to know there is one foal on the ground and who cares if he is bay...just a photo would be nice. And why say a foal was born brindle and then lost his color and will get it back...again who cares...just let us see a foal by him. To reproduce brindles would be very slim chances and I guess they are banking on lots of brindles to make a name for him and money off of selling him...does not seem he is making a living off of stud fees in the last 4 years or even foals by him.

I went to see this horse in person and I too am interested in seeing a foal. How would you ever get semen if you can't see one photo of a foal??? :confused:

I guess you have never seen a dramatic change in foal color to adult? I have many times and I am not even a color breeder. You of all people should know how much a foal can change from birth to full grown let alone the years inbetween. I am not saying his color WILL return but who are we (or you) to say it will not?

[Blonde Filly]

Here is the colt - http://www.photostockplus.com/home.php?tmpl=33&user_id=18633&action=show_all_photos&event=207089

Doni sent photos of colt showing the striped pattern up close, but I'll have to post them tomorrow along with answers to all of the questions.

Thank you!!! Thank you!!! :yes: Very nice foal...bay, purple or whatever!! Lovely mare too!!! :yes:

[Blonde Filly]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonde Filly
I too would just like to see A PHOTO...JUST ONE would be nice...I don't care what color it is..but after 4 years and not ONE person can produce a photo of just ONE of his offspring.

For those who have dealt with Doni...well I'll leave it at that...nice lady, but the stories never seem to add up. She can produce photos of him, but none of A SINGLE foal.

Glad to know there is one foal on the ground and who cares if he is bay...just a photo would be nice. And why say a foal was born brindle and then lost his color and will get it back...again who cares...just let us see a foal by him. To reproduce brindles would be very slim chances and I guess they are banking on lots of brindles to make a name for him and money off of selling him...does not seem he is making a living off of stud fees in the last 4 years or even foals by him.

I went to see this horse in person and I too am interested in seeing a foal. How would you ever get semen if you can't see one photo of a foal???


I guess you have never seen a dramatic change in foal color to adult? I have many times and I am not even a color breeder. You of all people should know how much a foal can change from birth to full grown let alone the years inbetween. I am not saying his color WILL return but who are we (or you) to say it will not?

You missed my point...it did not matter if he was brindle, bay or purple..just wanted to see a photo.

All the research I've seen on brindles, they don't lose their brindle color pattern, but can vary in color change. Kinda like a tobiano can not lose his/her spots when they shed out, but the color can vary. All the brindle sites I've seen show brindle foals sheding out and you can clearly still see brindle coat pattern stays after shedding out. And yes the shade of the color can change dramaticly...not lose a pattern such as spots, markings and ect. I think the problem is they are trying to bank on this stallion is going to throw like 50% or more brindles to drum up business in selling a partnership in him and/or stud fees. But if you have researched Brindles..they rarely throw them on their offspring..brindle is not an easy color to reproduce. And again, I just wanted to see a foal and the ONE I've now seen is LOVELY!!!! They should be very proud of him and post him on their web site and not worry about the fact that he is NOT brindle. If I get a chestnut I don't hide it and not post photos my web site...I post the photos...just because they are chestnut does not mean they are not nice and I should hide them. ie Too Busy Being Fabulous a 2008 Chestnut filly from last year!!! :winkgrin:

[Texarkana]

Here is the colt - http://www.photostockplus.com/home.php?tmpl=33&user_id=18633&action=show_all_photos&event=207089

Doni sent photos of colt showing the striped pattern up close, but I'll have to post them tomorrow along with answers to all of the questions.

Thanks! :) Much appreciated! He looks lovely.

[Blonde Filly]

A colt by him was presented last year at our farm's RPSI inspection. They said he was born brindle but he appeared plain bay. He was definitely nice though. Wonderful movement and wonderful conformation. He seemed to have an excellent temperament as well. I was told they expected his brindle color to reappear once he sheds out. I was quite impressed with this guy. I am not a "color" breeder although I enjoy unusual colored horses. I think conformation and temperament should always come first with color being 3rd. If this guy sheds out to be brindle again I'd say wow because he definitely had the movement and temperament.

You mentioned he was not a brindle at your inspection and he was shed out in the photos posted today at the inspection.

You use a lot of "colored" stallions for NOT being a color breeder that are listed on your site as reference stallions! :winkgrin: You have some nice foals and mares as well!!:yes:

Those that do get a brindle by Natal that look like the bay colt posted above will have really hit the jack pot when they do get this lovely brindle color!!!!!! :)

Brindle is very hard to reproduce on everything I've read on the subject. Here are some interesting articles on brindle and reproducing it and those who have tried. http://www.sharppillows.com/PublicityPage.htm

[Kinsella]

I've seen Natal Clasi at home and at shows. He is a lovely boy with a fantastic temperament. I would not hesitate to breed a mare to him (given they are a good match of course), regardless of color. I know he has only been bred in the US a handful of times, so doubt there are more than a few foals out there. IIRC, he was still in FL last year with the Jr. rider - whether he was shown or not. Still the same situation as the year before. I do know that one of the foals he sired died very young due to illness, so there goes one with no photos. And I know they have had a fairly hard time getting photos from SA, as I was trying to help the farm get them at one point.

And really, how many offspring did Quaterback have on the ground before he became the "it" stallion?* None. And all he had done was performance testing - he hadn't even been shown. At least Natal has proven he can go out and compete with a junior rider. And he did Mini-Prix (or the equivalent of) in SA, not the US.

(and a minor rant - WHY do photographers not cull their photos BEFORE posting them where the general public can view them? There are some gorgeous shots of that colt, but some of them should have never made it to a public album!)

*I am not saying anything bad about Quaterback - he is an amazing stallion - but really, someone had to be the first to breed to him right?

[RiddleMeThis]

Heres another page about brindle including links to a table of known brindles.

http://www.brindlehorses.com/brindlehos/index.htm

They also have a whole family of brindles who are reproducing their coloring in either a permanent pattern or a seasonal pattern.

[S A McKee]

I've seen Natal Clasi at home and at shows. He is a lovely boy with a fantastic temperament. I would not hesitate to breed a mare to him (given they are a good match of course), regardless of color. I know he has only been bred in the US a handful of times, so doubt there are more than a few foals out there. IIRC, he was still in FL last year with the Jr. rider - whether he was shown or not. Still the same situation as the year before. I do know that one of the foals he sired died very young due to illness, so there goes one with no photos. And I know they have had a fairly hard time getting photos from SA, as I was trying to help the farm get them at one point.

.. At least Natal has proven he can go out and compete with a junior rider. And he did Mini-Prix (or the equivalent of) in SA, not the US.


It's clear that you aren't entirely impartial in this matter. LOL

So what if he was in FL last year with a Jr rider? The comment was in regard to showjumpers statement:
"During this lease, it was decided that he would not be available to the public with his busy circuit schedules."

a) He wasn't showing so the busy schedule comment is odd.
b) If he wasn't breeding due to his busy showing schedule that wasn't true in 2008 as he didn't show. So was he used for breeding in 2008?

"Stoneybrooke Farm imported this Grand Prix Jumper in 2005 from Brazil"

Well what's the real story here? You say he did Mini Prix in SA ( anyway to get those show records?). Web site says he was a GP jumper. USEF says he is a Childrens Jumper. So who is right?

From Pedigree Query
" "NATAL CLASI (Imported to the US; now an RPSI-approved stallion; showing with great success in FL & the East Coast with a young JR rider & A Vale."

RPSI doesn't list him as either Book I or Book II. What is his status with them?
And he was never shown by A Vale.

'Great Success' is relative I guess. Show record is available online. Judge it yourself.

This is not a comment on the horse. Haven't seen him. It's just that the backstory really doesn't add up. Some facts would be good.

[Kinsella]

You are right, I am not impartial - I do like this stallion. That doesn't mean that I agree with every statement advertised about the horse, but it isn't my place to argue who imported him or what his show record in the US is. I KNOW you can look it up, I used to work at USEF. I also know it isn't always easy to get records from foreign countries - especially SA. Sorry I didn't go check out all the websites and advertising to make sure I covered every little aspect of his showing and breeding career. I was merely stating the few things that I know about the horse - he's lovely, he has very few foals in NA and why, and he was leased and competed her in the US by a junior rider. As for why he wasn't bred last year, well, does it really matter? His owners decided not to, reason enough.

(And I know nothing about the RPSI stuff, hence the reason I said nothing about it.)

[mistyjewell]

I have no dog in this fight, I think that Natal is a very nice looking stallion, and was at the RPSI inspection and saw the foal myself. Very nice looking/moving foal, but I honestly saw no indication of being a brindle, nor do I know if there are some sort of tell tale signs it would be one (like say an app can be born solid and spot out later, but there are still classic tell tale signs).

If the owner was more easy to get a hold of, I'd have no problem breeding to him, color or not.

I do know the foal was given full papers, so I'm assuming that Natal must be in book I, and I remember back when he was inspected (free jumped etc) that he was fully approved. Perhaps b/c of him being leased and not being bred the owners did not keep up on the registry fees? So he was inactive? I believe in that case they can usually pay an extra fee to still use the stallion since he was approved with them.

I do wish she was easier to get a hold of, I remember when he first came over I tried to contact her multiple times, and was amazed to see a foal by him at the inspection!

[ljshorses]

You mentioned he was not a brindle at your inspection and he was shed out in the photos posted today at the inspection.

You use a lot of "colored" stallions for NOT being a color breeder that are listed on your site as reference stallions! :winkgrin: You have some nice foals and mares as well!!:yes:



That's right, I'm NOT a color breeder. That is, I never sacrifice conformation, temperament, rideability etc.. for color. If you looked on my site's page you would see (as you stated) that they are REFERENCE stallions. Meaning stallions that we may have or will have horses available for sale by them. That does not mean that we only use those stallions. You will also see many non-colored ones as well.

I said in earlier post "I am not a colored breeder, but enjoy unusual and colored horses". Again, color is not what I breed for. I don't set out to produce color, I breed the best quality I can and choose stallions that compliment my mare not her color. Color is and always will be to me, icing on the cake. If you look on my reference page, you will see quality stallions not just pretty because to me pretty is as pretty does.

I happen to use quite a few of Silverwood Farm's stallions because they are quality not just colorful. Her stallion's offspring prove that everyday. They are the icing on the cake. I also like Knabstruppers but have only ever bred 2 of them (one I kept for myself) and neither were born with spots yet both are gorgeous. Color isn't everything and that is why I spoke up about the Natal colt I saw here (the pictures posted are at my farm's RPSI inspection). He was a quality colt, brindle or not.

So long story short, if they think is color will come back at his NEXT shed than who am I to say different. I just commented on his quality, which was evident.

[showjumpers66]

Okay ... here are some answers.

They don't know if the colt will shed out brindle. These photos show he has a striped pattern (i.e. coat texturing), but there isn't a difference in the coloring.

http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/NatalFoal.jpg

http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/natalfoal1.jpg

I think I see glimpses of the pattern in a couple of the inspection photos. The quote below from http://www.brindlehorses.com/brindlehos/index.htm indicates that it is possible for the expression of the pigment to change. It is also possible that he just has foal striping which does happen in foal coats from time to time. Time will tell.

Brindle horses also have texturing in their coat, similar to that seen in some Appaloosa horses. The pattern seems to be inheritable, especially in terms of coat texturing, but the expression of the darker or more intense pigment to make the pattern visible is highly variable, and even varies with individual horses seasonally / yearly. Sometimes the pattern seems to be composed of dark hair (black or brown), sometimes of white hair (roan or gray).

This is also interesting - http://www.brindlehorses.com/l3l13/characteristics/baybe2.gif

Natal competed successfully up to 1.4 meter in Brazil, which is Mini Prix, with an amateur owner before he was imported. His owner in Brazil did have a brindle filly by Natal.

The decision to lease him was made as Doni was not interested in standing another stallion. This was a great opportunity for Natal to be out competing, while also supporting a talented 13 year old rider who was just moving up from ponies. It is tough for a stallion to be managed out of a training barn and most trainers just don't have time between lessons, riding, shows, etc., so the focus was on Natal's job as a school master rather than breeding. 20 shows in 2007 is pretty darn busy. He has great placements at the big shows, including good ribbons in $10,000 & $15,000 classes. When the lease was up in 2008, he came home to Stoneybrooke Farm (owned by a friend of Doni's) while she tried to decide on his future.

Natal was approved with RPSI, but was not re-activated since he was not being used for breeding. There were 3 mares in foal (1 slipped) and there have been 2 foals born in the US.

[Gimmeawink]

You'll have to pardon me. I am not much up on these interesting threads. I am happily living a peaceful Bluegrass life--full of Ice, actually...and, at last, electric! (After a week without, much appreciated.)

All so very interesting...so many of you intrigued by NATAL. His story really IS interesting. Gals, I very much enjoy the interest but I reiterate....NONE of the info you are relating is directly from me. Like that old game of telephone, I guess...it starts out correctly, then, kinda gets off-kelter a bit. I certainly know all of his story and I never realized just how much "conspiracy theory" was suspected! (Hugh smile, there!) Nor about me...and my quiet, more zen-like lifestyle! Or that I am unavailable in this age of Internet and websites...

I own Natal for pure joy with a partner. He was never about financial gain. Just FUN. He fell into my lap by accident via a TB shopping trip to Brazil for some clients. He only had a website for a little over 60 days, after importation, and I could not travel and keep up with the immense queries...to breed, to get DNA, to ask questions, the write stories, to re-connect, usw.,.....all lovely folks and always well-meaning. BUT, after 35 years of a wonderful horsey life, I had personally chosen a new life's direction...with a bit more emphasis on--firstly, TBs (for 10 years), and, now, focusing on health & just watching & keeping up with many of our Farm's former breeders...who have gone on to build impressive operations of their own. (Kudos guys! And winks, Sporthorses66..lol)

I have reveled in no more 18 hour days and all it takes to run a larger operation. I so admire you all as this blustery winter drags on! So, again, just the simple facts...I kinda like this 2nd half of life. The older I get, the hotter old fellas like Dr. Wayne Dyer look...and they make sense!

Yes, these threads do seem fun and they do get out info...but I can see that there is sometimes many underlying currents. Then a thread goes on about You and Your Critters. And much speculation...

Since ya'll seem to want his story, ALL of it, and I chose to have no website, I realize that it might appear to be more than it there really is.

Sooo...if you wish, I suppose it IS time to make time to fill in the blanks. (Not letting others do so...)
Give me a day or two and I will spend a bit of time to tell the tale in my second ever posting.

Natal IS a truly lovely creature. I am NOT promoting him for any specific reason. He has never ceased to amaze me...and my life's been blessed with amazing horses and especially, stallions.

He started life as a foal in a stall, born Christmas morning (Natal=Christmas); no stripes apparent...just these funny ridges. His Brazilian breeders were as surprised by the upraised hair-ridges as they were about his coming early and sneaking up on them! Imagine...ear to tail patterning in hair alone, no silvery color then, in a tiger-stripe fashion!

They had no idea what these patterns foretold, (which flattened out thru his late yearling year.) They were simply breeding for the jumpers, with heavy German jump bloodlines. And very kind, simple, hospitable folks with a tidy, Southern hemisphere breeding farm.

I can imagine what it was like. AND on December 25th, of all days! He even started out life in a fun way!

Well, I need to head to bed. I hope that gets us started.

By best wishes,
Doni Biggs

BTW--TYVM, Barb, for all the questions, answers, postings & interest.

[aurum]

I just saw Natal Clasi is up for sale. Hope we will hear who is buying him to follow his hoofsteps. He looks great.