Line Breeding

[emptysaddle]

My mare's great grand-sire is the same as the grand sire of the stallion I want to breed to. Is that too close?

[Foxtrot's]

(Coles notes version) If you look at Holsteiner pedigrees you will see that there are lots and lots of Cor de la Bruyere, Landgraf etc. that are repeated many times over. Same with Zangersheide. Cabardino, for instance has Cord three times, and with my mare it would total five. I'd say that is a bit much. With Cord it is to establish his bascule, said to be the best. With Z it is to establish 'jump' by doubling up on the good features.

[Fairview Horse Center]

It depends on the horse that is doubled. You want to only double a stallion without any real negatives, as you will have twice as much chance of your baby getting those charicteristics, and then also stronly passing them along if bred.

[Foxtrot's]

As Fairview pointed out - unless he is an "IT" stallion you will be doubling up on his characteristics, which might or might not be a good thing.

[vineyridge]

That would be a 2 x 3 cross. I wouldn't go any closer for sure. In human terms, it would be the equivalent of marrying your second cousin. You'd better like the stallion and his lines pretty darned well, because you're not only getting him twice close, but you are also getting all his ancestors doubled as well. :)

[emptysaddle]

The common sire is Flemmingh.

[pintopiaffe]

grand(son/daughter) to grand(mother/father) is a long preferred line if you want to solidify characteristics.... what you are speaking of is a bit further out, and 'nicely' line bred.

I have a mare and stallion that share what you're talking about, and they are a FABULOUS nick. Foals are hugely predictable, and better than the sire and the dam. As said--the stallion doubled up is one well worth resembling.

[rideagoldenpony]

In the Welsh breed there is a LOT more linebreeding than what the sporthorse folks find typical.

I find that it sets the type like nobody's business -- but you need to be certain it is a type you WANT -- being aware of both positive and negative attributes of the lines.

[HorsesforFun]

I have seen Dobel's Cento x Cassini I. To me that is way too close!! But it is apparently out there...

[vineyridge]

Here is a rather interesting summary article on the effects of breeding to common ancestors:
http://www.pedigreepost.net/new_articles/the_effect_of_inbreeding.html

[Waterwitch]

Thanks viney, that is an interesting read.

[stolensilver]

I really like Flemmingh as a sire but he wouldn't be a stallion I'd double up on. He doesn't have the strongest of loins and does tend to pass this on. I have seen a linebred Flemmingh 3x2 and while the horse was beautiful with a wonderful temperament they did indeed have a loin that looked to be on the weak side. They were also a little small.

I'd have another look round and choose another stallion. If you like Flemmingh for his temperament a stallion that seems to be passing on a lovely temperament and who moves well is Le Rouge. His stock aren't very old yet. Oldest are 3 this year so cannot comment on rideability but looking good so far.

[Holsteiner jumper]

The best read on the subject is this one:
http://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/index.html
I think one big problem with a lot of NA breeders is that they do not know how to linebreed or inbreed. Perhaps this is why the Europeans can breed such consistently good stock, because they stay close to home with the bloodlines, thus solidifying old marelines. One of the best producing sires in terms of percentage of offspring, not quantity of performing offspring is still Rex Z, a foal out of Ratina Z and by Rebel Z, full siblings! In some respects Cento to Cassini could be a concern if it is just sire loading, but I don`t know what the mare lines are of the horse you are referring to, may be a perfectly balanced line breed. READ THE WEBPAGE, at the very least it will give a very good arguement that you can disagree with ;) The author also does pedigree analysis (proper, not just a skim over of important sires), and will suggest stallions based on her findings.

[Oakstable]

That's an amazing web site.

It is harder to linebred warmbloods in NA except for Holsteiners and Trakehners.

I have a couple Dutch mares and they are mutts. Lovely mutts.

[not again]

Ummm. We use judicious line-breeding. And have had for many years.

[smokygirl]

In the Welsh breed there is a LOT more linebreeding than what the sporthorse folks find typical.

I find that it sets the type like nobody's business -- but you need to be certain it is a type you WANT -- being aware of both positive and negative attributes of the lines.


Arabians too. Especially in the smaller gene pools (like straight spanish). On the positive sides.. when inbreeding, the faults come out a lot quicker, so it makes it faster to be able to cull faults from your breeding program (the spanish militar, YM) did this quite successfully, ridding their lines of a lot of faults in a short period of time, and then using the best of the horses to continue linebreeding with.