Foaling: Individual vs. Herd???

[erinwillow]

Hello All,

We've always pulled our mares into individual paddocks to foal believing that it was the safest most sensible option for foaling. However, we've only ever had two mares due to foal during any given season so there was never really an issue one way or the other--mare and foal spent the first month in a private paddock. This year we have three due and I am wondering what thoughts were on allowing foaling in a "herd" situation of the three pregnant mares. They are currently all pastured together. Is this dangerous? Natural? Or just plain a bad idea. I welcome any insight, experiences. Thanks

[NancyM]

I have neighbours who do this, mares foal out in the field, with other mares present. They have had few problems with this scenario. But, like you, I tend to pull mine in, into a private paddock and stall arrangement, for safety's sake. Some would say that foaling out in pristine grassy ground, may be cleaner than any stall. This may be true. But foaling in a stall, in private, allows for better human monitoring, a light in the stall, a camera piping video feed into your house so that the human is less likely to miss the event... which can be the difference between life and death for both the mare and foal. I think there is some danger of mares who are not foaling wanting to become involved with the mare who is looking for a bit of privacy to get her business done. A newly produced foal may be pawed or stepped on, if the dam can not get up right away to protect her newborn due to fatigue or a problem birth. In the truely "natural situation" of feral or wild horses, if a foal gets stepped on or killed, or a mare or foal does not survive the ordeal of foaling, nobody has invested multiple dollars and emotion into the outcome.

So I would suggest that you continue to remove the mare who is getting ready to foal from the pasture situation, into a private stall and paddock to both raise and bond with her young foal. I think it is safer, and easier to help out the mare should she require it. Attempting to discern which mare is going to need the foaling stall next is a decision that you make each evening, and can be tough if you have more than one mare bred at about the same time, or foaling dates tending to blend together as mares go early or late in their gestation. Hard to say sometimes, an owner does the best they can with this. There have been times that I have removed one mare from the foaling stall, and substituted another one, who suddenly looks closer to popping. It's nice if you can have a few weeks difference in cover dates, but sometimes it doesn't happen that way.

[Ladybug Hill]

I personally would never do this. I like a controlled situation. I have seen dominant mares try to steal foals. Many mares will protect a foal violently also--foal isn't old enough to know how to get out of the way. Too much risk of a foal getting kicked.

I almost always foal in a stall although I have foaled out in an individual paddock in the right situation.

[Daydream Believer]

Unless your fields are very big and the mare foaling can leave the group for privacy, I would not do this either. It works in nature because mares have plenty of room to leave the herd, seek a quiet safe place and not have to worry about other mares trying to steal her foal.

On my small farm of 26 acres, I'd never do it. 1st problem is fescue grass and 2nd...I just don't have the room. After a major dystocia last Spring, I'd feel better just being there also to help if I can. I would be OK with a small clean private paddock in daytime.

[Home Again Farm]

Mine foal out individually. We put them back together when the mares seem confident and ready.

I had one foal (very unexpectedly - no udder, no others signs) during the day while out with a yearling and another mare. It was very stressful for the foal, as the yearling and other mare were very curious and mama was trying to keep her foal away from them. There was a lot of running around and not at all what I like to see with a newborn.

[showjumpers66]

Way back when, when I first started breeding, I purchased a mare at auction that was supposed to be open. When she started "showing", we confirmed that she was in foal. I took her in for a transabdominal scan as she was bagging up already (in September). The scan determined that she was due end of December / beginning of January. She foaled out at the end of October. I had been keeping her up by herself in a stall with a small run and then was turning her out for 2 hours with the other girls. She foaled in the pasture during her turn-out. It was an absolute nightmare that I would never want to experience again. The other 5 mares stole her foal. They circled the foal and were double barrelling the mare. She was galloping around frantically dragging the afterbirth. I was trying to get to the foal, terrified that one of the mares would step on her as they were all charging each other. The foal hopped up (I have never seen a foal get up this fast) and was trying to gallop away. It made the situation even harder. I had to catch the mares, one at a time, in order to get to the foal.

Now, when the mares are 60 days out, they are separated into paddocks with 2 mares in each so, if the unforeseen happens, the mare only has to defend against one other mare. They come up at night for the last 30 days.

[Blacktree]

Wow Barbara, that sounds like a very scary situation. Glad you were able to get momma and baby out!

[hansiska]

How terrible, SJ66! Glad things turned out alright.

I had an experience like HAF's. Very seasoned (22yr old) broodmare foaled early and was turned out with my then-yearling filly. What's worse: it was raining! No biggie for the old girl, though. She'd herded that baby into the run-in and kicked the yearling out of it. Still, it was quite a surprise for me when I arrived to feed that morning.

One odd result: the filly who watched that foaling has a maternal streak a mile long. Maybe she was just born that way, but I think watching that foaling had an effect on her. She doted on that colt when I turned them out together when he was weaned. The following year, when another mare foaled in a neighboring pasture, my filly waited an entire week before crashing through TWO fences to get in with the new Liberty Gold colt. I eventually gave in and turned her out with the mare and new foal. All was fine. I actually think the older mare was relieved to let the colt take his mind off of her by hanging out with the filly.

It's nice knowing I can trust this young mare (now 4 1/2) with youngsters. When I brought my new 6 mo old filly home I was able to turn them out together with no problems and no worries.

All of that said (sorry for the long-winded reply), I would definitely not recommend foaling in a herd situation. It's just too dangerous.

[Home Again Farm]

One odd result: the filly who watched that foaling has a maternal streak a mile long. Maybe she was just born that way, but I think watching that foaling had an effect on her.

That is interesting, hansiska. My yearling was the same way. Wolkenstanza was the yearling in question. She was fascinated with babies ever since then and was the most maternal maiden mare I have ever had with her own first foal. :yes:

[Amoroso]

I have a fellow breeder and friend who swears by foaling her mares in groups on the pasture. She has over 50 broodmares, all warmbloods, and in the past 10 years has lost very few foals. They check the mare groups several times nightly and of course during the day. They seem to have a system worked out pretty well.

I bring our mares in to foal, and keep them in for a couple weeks. Then, they are turned out with the group again. It really depends on the mare though. I have one girl who hates being turned out, she would much prefer her paddock and will stand by the gate all day if she is left out for more than a couple hours. She is just odd and we generally feed her all year instead of turning her out into the large pasture. She has her own paddock and small private field instead.

[amdfarm]

Odd woman out. Mine foal in the pasture in their established broodmare herd. This is not posed a problem yet. I do my best to be there during the birth, and times when I've missed it completely, only to be greeted at the gate by a mare and her new baby. I had one mare that did this all the time, she was private and didn't like human interaction when she foaled. They typically foal between checks, which I think is to just torture me. I've only had to assist w/ one a couple years ago on pasture, one where I knew I'd have to. Small mare, big stallion and big baby. And this is when they weren't in my back yard. I had to drive 3 miles one way to check them every couple of hours.

I have other breeder friends that do this, as well, and most times they're not there for the births. They find the new babies in the morning when they check the pastures.

[dbts]

Not exactly intentionally, I have had several of my foals born at pasture in an established herd. No problems at all. One mare in particular seemed to plan it that way.

[dressagetraks]

I don't yet have a barn with stalls, so my options are limited. All of my horses are on 24/7 with run-in sheds available.

With the two foals born here, I separated the mare in foal into a smaller paddock about a month out and for company gave her the calmest, quietest, most easy going companion I could find, a horse below mare in foal on the totem pole. It has worked out very well. My only difficulty was once when the foal escaped getting up under the fence into the big pasture somehow, although I'd still swear he couldn't have fit under there. Fence supplemented for future foaling. That led to a massive horse fight, but the problem was not the companion of the momma mare, and the momma mare was not worried about her companion once she and her foal were reunited. Usually the momma mare stood the companion off a bit for the first few days, not aggressively but just letting them know to be careful, then relaxed gradually. At a few months, I start gradually reintegrating the easiest other members of the herd, letting them get used to the foal pre weaning. I think the herd environment is very good socially for them.

That said, I do have a mare whom I would never, ever have with any other mare during foaling and foalhood. You do have to watch the personality mix, and this mare is a version of me (read that no use whatsoever for kids, no cuteness factor, ain't doing this, uh uh :D ).

[rideagoldenpony]

I make every effort to have my mares foal under my VERY watchful eye. I tend to leave them with the group of mares until I think they are getting close, then they come up to the foaling stall, which is just outside of my house, and I watch it with a web cam that shows on my computer screen. The computer is in my bedroom, so I can leave it up all night and foal watch from bed (does foal watch GET any better than that??!).

I've had a few mares escape my watchful eye, and foal down in the pasture. Thus far, it has been uneventful. Though this past year I had a mare foal in the pasture while we were over at the neighbor's haying. We came back with a trailer load of hay to the barn, and I was standing on the hill overlooking the mare pasture and realized there was an "extra" foal down there. I got there while he was still wet, and all was well. However, when the herd found him, it was a bit of a madhouse. It is really NOT the ideal way, in my opinion. I especially would never have the (VERY obnoxious) yearling and two year old fillies out with my broodmares that were about to foal. I had some out there last year, and they were -- as I said above -- VERY obnoxious about the new foal, and ended up running everyone way more than was necessary. The older broodmares mostly just want a look, then mind their own business. The youngsters just don't give up and tend to keep after it.

On a positive note, once the babies are a little older, those "teenager" fillies make wonderful baby sitters and the foals love them!

[VirginiaBred]

Way back when, when I first started breeding, I purchased a mare at auction that was supposed to be open. When she started "showing", we confirmed that she was in foal. I took her in for a transabdominal scan as she was bagging up already (in September). The scan determined that she was due end of December / beginning of January. She foaled out at the end of October. I had been keeping her up by herself in a stall with a small run and then was turning her out for 2 hours with the other girls. She foaled in the pasture during her turn-out. It was an absolute nightmare that I would never want to experience again. The other 5 mares stole her foal. They circled the foal and were double barrelling the mare. She was galloping around frantically dragging the afterbirth. I was trying to get to the foal, terrified that one of the mares would step on her as they were all charging each other. The foal hopped up (I have never seen a foal get up this fast) and was trying to gallop away. It made the situation even harder. I had to catch the mares, one at a time, in order to get to the foal.

Now, when the mares are 60 days out, they are separated into paddocks with 2 mares in each so, if the unforeseen happens, the mare only has to defend against one other mare. They come up at night for the last 30 days.


Okay, you made my heart-rate increase like you wouldn't believe. Wow!!!

[Fairview Horse Center]

I occasionally foal in the herd. I won't leave them out at night, as I can't monitor them, but I do turn them out days with the group and keep an eye on them. I have had several horses foal with the herd. All were fine - basically ignored, except for one mare. She foaled unexpectedly and was still out at night. She did have a few nips, but she was the low mare in the herd.

One of my old girls hated to foal unless she was with the herd. She would pace all night, and wait until morning. Within 15 minutes of putting her out with them, down she would go. She did not do well trying to get up after foaling in a stall, (it seemed like her leg would go to sleep) but in the field, she had the space to get to her feet without stepping on the baby.

My friend was manager at Hilton Hanoverians, and she foaled in "best friend" pairs. She said that one mare would foal, and the other would be licking the baby. Very trusting and sharing.

Foaling in a small paddock would worry me as they tend to become dirt/mud.

[erinwillow]

Hello All,

Thank you for so many thoughtful and insightful posts! I will admit that mare personalities and mare herd dynamics are important. For example, out of the three that are together right now there is a definite pecking order with "Leia" way down on the bottom rung. I think I will definately be brining her into her own space. Honestly, as for the other two I'm not sure that they would necessarily (in a perfect world) have any problems. Of course, I say that now but watch, I will probably bring them into their own seperate spaces as they get nearer. :winkgrin:

[hansiska]

That is interesting, hansiska. My yearling was the same way. Wolkenstanza was the yearling in question. She was fascinated with babies ever since then and was the most maternal maiden mare I have ever had with her own first foal. :yes:

That IS interesting! My mare actually stands over "her" new filly -- the now 8 month old Rascalino filly I bought from Walnut Farm -- while the filly sleeps. I'm certainly expecting the same behavior when she becomes a broodmare, and now you've given me even more reason to believe she'll be a great mom. Thanks!

BTW, if you need her to 'babysit' any of this year's HAF foal crop, please send them my way! :yes: Can't wait to see the rest of those foals.... I'm loving the matches you've made this year.

[onqhanoverians]

I know foaling in herd seems natural but so many added risks to foal and stress on foaling mare. I vote no way"

[smokygirl]

It depends. I would never turn a mare out to foal with a group she hadn't been for for awhile, and never for the maiden voyage. I also wouldn't in a mixed herd with yearlings, geldings, maiden mares, etc. But a group of broodmares in a relatively good sized pasture I would do. I would never foal out in a dirt paddock or run in situation. Either a stall or a decent sized pasture.. paddocks/ runs are way too dirty/mucky if the weather becomes bad (rain, snow, etc) too quickly.

[Swampskeeter]

I used to work for an AQHA breeder. A couple of times mares surprised us and foaled outside in the herd. One time the other mares would not leave momma and baby alone. Had to herd baby inside with momma as other mares are trying to steal baby.
Another time a baby came in with a mare that was NOT it's momma. Figured out who momma was, and then real momma didn't want to accept baby at first. She did accept after an hour or two of careful monitoring.
That said we always liked to foal then out separate:) Just less stressful in our situation.

[Donella]

While I think you could be fine leaving them out to foal, the thought of going out and finding one of my mares with a foal stuck, half dead ect just about makes me sick to my stomache. Dystocias, red bag deliveries ect DO happen and so to me, because I put that mare in foal, it is my job to do everything in my power to be there for the birth. There are just way too many things that could wrong with these mares that mean the world to me.

If you are willing to accept the much higher risk, then leaving nature to take it's course is definately much easier.

[NoDQhere]

We have had a couple of "accidental" foalings in the pasture and have been lucky that all was well. One was a maiden who had no bag at all and when we took morning hay out, there she was with her baby. Baby was dry and sucking. This was a tame, pet of a mare and she wouldn't let us get within 100 feet of her. She acted like some wild mustang that had never seen a human :eek:. After a week she was her usual self and let us catch her and play with baby. All was well, but it would have been a nightmare had something been wrong with that baby.

[Amoroso]

While I think you could be fine leaving them out to foal, the thought of going out and finding one of my mares with a foal stuck, half dead ect just about makes me sick to my stomache. Dystocias, red bag deliveries ect DO happen and so to me, because I put that mare in foal, it is my job to do everything in my power to be there for the birth. There are just way too many things that could wrong with these mares that mean the world to me.

If you are willing to accept the much higher risk, then leaving nature to take it's course is definately much easier.

It is just as easy to miss a foaling when the mare is stalled or in a paddock, the venue for foaling makes no difference. It is all up to the owner and their diligence for checking the mare. There is nothing in this thread about leaving mares to let nature take it's course, it is simply about foaling in a group or not.

[Fairview Horse Center]

It is just as easy to miss a foaling when the mare is stalled or in a paddock, the venue for foaling makes no difference. It is all up to the owner and their diligence for checking the mare.

That woud only be true if the owner either paid someone to stay up all night, watching them in a well lit area, or could somehow live without sleep for 30 + days, and didn't need to leave the field for that time.

Inside, I can hear the mare breathing, taking steps, urinating, manure hitting the straw, getting up and down, while I cook dinner, get dressed, etc, and her niose will wake me up if I am napping.