Neighbour with dead carcass in his manure

[goponies]

sigh*
well I guess the title says it all... the neighbour has a foul smelling dead something buried in his horse manure. By the intensity of the smell, I would venture a horse died and he didn't get the carcass removed as required by law. A couple of weeks ago we saw him moving some manure with his tractor. Now in the dead (pun intended!) of winter, moving the manure pile is a very rare occurrence. That same day, right after, a very unpleasant smell wafted over, so bad that I started gagging. Nothing is quite like the smell of death...It still smells when the wind is just right.
I could call the environmental dept., but my neighbour would know right away I'm the one calling. I'm the closest one and likely to smell the offensive odor.

[Laurierace]

Composting is actually a very effective way of disposing of a carcass. If done correctly there really isn't any more smell than any other manure pile. Maybe you can google instructions and help him make the corrections that are needed.

[silver2]

This might be the best titled post ever!

[LT]

i had this same issue with my wretched naighbor,my kids call him the angry farmer.. he had been dumping horse carcasses where our property meets for years in his manure pile...thanks alot a@#$%^! my parents felt intimdated so they never did anything about..but i did call the dept of ag,they will send an inspector out to look at how the y are composting..yoy should not be able to see any portion of the carcass or have any odor. he got a visit from the inspector and now he keeps the bodies covered..so nasty..says alot for his horse management skills

[Go Fish]

You can't just leave a carcass unburied and most jurisdictions are pretty darn picky where you bury one, if they'll let you at all. I can just about guarantee that you cannot just leave a carcass in a manure pile. Call your local health department.

[TikiSoo]

I gotta say though, my manuer pile was the perfect place to dump the *shot but still kickin'* snapping turtle that tried to pick off my duckies.

[Sabovee]

Composting is actually a very effective way of disposing of a carcass. If done correctly there really isn't any more smell than any other manure pile. Maybe you can google instructions and help him make the corrections that are needed.

Agreed. My BIL has used our muck heap for the odd cow and I've never noticed a smell.

I did, however, notice when my dog brought over a complete skull (minus all the flesh) while I was showing a client a horse. :) That was a fun one to explain!

[SMF11]

I cannot tell from your post whether the carcass in the manure is truly a nuisance or if you are objecting to a farming practice . . .

If you live in a rural area that still has agriculture, and I do, even though it is only 90 miles to New York City, then composting a carcass is absolutely allowed. Burying animals on your property is absolutely allowed (and as far as I know, completely unregulated, despite the earlier post about most jurisdictions banning it). The farmer we lease a lot of our land to has left cow carcasses in the woods -- unburied -- for the coyotes. It is macabre, but the bones are polished clean very quickly and I don't have a problem with that.

I don't mean to only be saying suck it up; if the smell is terrible then the composting isn't being done right. But I get grouchy when suburbanites don't understand farming practices, not that the OP is . . . but some of the responses were starting to sound that way.

[BramblewoodAcres]

I agree with some other posters...if done correctly composting an animal carcass is efficient and shouldn't smell horrible. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with discarding a carcass in that manner...there are no ethics or morals that require a horse's body to be buried or cremated.

The only regulation in my county regarding livestock carcass disposal is that the carcass cannot be buried within 50 ft. of an active waterway such as a creek, pond, or river. I can haul the carcasses into the woods and leave 'em for the scavengers if I wanted to. The dairy farmer down the road dumps his dead cows in a ditch at the woods edge of his property. I grew up near a hog farmer who tossed the dead hogs in a ditch as well. We always knew when a new carcass was out there because they coyotes were unusually loud.

Not burying an animal carcass is pretty common in farm country. It's the city folks who move out to the country and think everything should be clean and fresh-smelling all the time who have problems with this common method of disposal. I wonder what the heck they think happens to the deer when they died out in the woods? No one goes out to bury them....nature happens and then they are gone.

[equusvilla]

1 question....how close is the water well?..... :0/

[fargonefarm]

I agree with the other posters regarding the fact that this is not an uncommon practice. My community is full of dairy/beef farms and when a cow dies, which is frequent, the rule of thumb is that you bury the carcass in the manure pile. Around here manure piles are quite substantial. Maybe other posters here can help me out but I believe the time between burial in the pile and full decomposition of the carcass is somewhere around three months. If done correctly this is a very effective means to an end (no pun intended) and actually works quite well. Again though, it has to be done effectively. And when it is, there is virtually no smell. It's actually better than some Joe Schmoe burying a carcass with no regard or no notice of water supplies.

Perhaps the OP can do some research online and help her/his neighbor out with the proper way to compost a carcass in a manure pile. There are many Ag extensions that have wonderful information regarding this. Good luck!

[Cielo Azure]

Composting with manure may be the only way, if the ground is frozen or he doesnt have the heavy equipment to bury or the money to get it removed. Times are hard.

I would probably go nicely knock on his door. Offer your condolences and request (nicely) that he might consider adding more manure or topping off with dirt because the smell is getting to you.

He probably knows but has run out of manure or whatever or his tractor broke or whatever (s**t happens on a farm). At least your going over will give him the chance to apologize, which he needs to do for creating a bad smell.

[dserthorse]

I agree with some other posters...if done correctly composting an animal carcass is efficient and shouldn't smell horrible. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with discarding a carcass in that manner...there are no ethics or morals that require a horse's body to be buried or cremated.

CAN you actually get a horse cremated where you are? I never could find a place to have it done. All my horses who have died have ended up buried. I couldn't bear to have a truck come take them away, and I was never in a circumstance that allowed non burial.

I don't actually have a problem with non-burial= ashes to ashes, dust to dust= and though we don't have coyotes, we'd have a huge cloud of buzzards in no time at all. It seems quite natural.

Any opinions on using quick lime in a gravesite to help decomposition along? I know someone who does that.

To the OP, I can agree that a horrid smell would be a terrible problem. I agree with those who suggested at least asking him to do it correctly so you don't gag when the wind comes from his place.

Laurel

[BEARCAT]

I would offer to go dump my manure on top of his so as to cover up the odor - a win/win! (Assuming you have manure to get rid of...)

[arabhorse2]

Like some of the other posters, where I live there are various methods of disposing of a large animal carcass.

Most of the cattle farmers around here shove a carcass into the woods, and let nature's clean up crew take care of it. Perfectly legal.

I buried Conny on my own property, and no one said boo about it. Also perfectly legal.

Burial in a manure pile is fine, depending on where you live and what regulations are in your area.

[theoldgreymare]

You can't just leave a carcass unburied and most jurisdictions are pretty darn picky where you bury one, if they'll let you at all. I can just about guarantee that you cannot just leave a carcass in a manure pile. Call your local health department.

Spoken like someone who lives in the 'burbs (no offense intended). Maybe where you live this is unacceptable but in much of the country, including my part of Virginny, you can legally bury your horse in your manure pile or in your field or let the buzzards pick it clean. Hell, I intend to be buried on my property, which is legal in the state of VA.

No advice for the OP. Maybe, as the others have suggested, give him some manure if that's what's needed.

[jcotton]

I say it is time grow up and get over it.
Everything will die!!!
Yes, carcasses stink, the larger the animal, the larger the stink.
I drag my large animals off to the large animal bone ditch for the coyotes & vultures to snack on. Little animals(coons, possums, wild hog parts) have their own bone ditch.

[goponies]

well here it's an environmental offense. Not allowed by law. That said, I have NO problem if he buries it well and there's no smell, but the smell is just overwhelming. His manure pile is about 200 ft from my property. Also the smell is likely to attract coyotes too close to buildings. I really don't care where he disposes of his dead animals as long as they don't infringe on my air quality...

[Bayou Roux]

Are you sure there's a carcass in the pile? I only ask because we haven't been able to use the tractor to spread ours in almost two months, due to the ice buildup on the lane to the back 40 where we spread. The pile is huge, and unusually aromatic-- a weirder smell than usual manure pile, too, I think because it's below freezing most of the time, and the compost that is going on inside is slightly different under these conditions....

We have no carcasses in there that we know of; it just stinks.

[SGray]

well here it's an environmental offense. Not allowed by law. That said, I have NO problem if he buries it well and there's no smell, but the smell is just overwhelming. His manure pile is about 200 ft from my property. Also the smell is likely to attract coyotes too close to buildings. I really don't care where he disposes of his dead animals as long as they don't infringe on my air quality...

composting is an approved method of disposal in most areas of the country now -- this has changed in the last few years so you might look to see if it has changed in your area too

as others have said, done correctly there is little to no odor and it is more environmentally friendly than most alternatives (burial, cremation, etc -- other than the carrion fodder that some have mentioned)

these articles http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:k3HVsWg5ZpwJ:tammi.tamu.edu/largecarcassE-422.pdf+tamu+%2B+large+animal+composting&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

http://www3.abe.iastate.edu/cattlecomposting/guidelines/draft_guidelines.asp

might provide insights into what needs changing



venting here is all well and good but to improve your air quality you may have to offer some shavings to your neighbor

[BramblewoodAcres]

CAN you actually get a horse cremated where you are? I never could find a place to have it done. All my horses who have died have ended up buried. I couldn't bear to have a truck come take them away, and I was never in a circumstance that allowed non burial.

I don't actually have a problem with non-burial= ashes to ashes, dust to dust= and though we don't have coyotes, we'd have a huge cloud of buzzards in no time at all. It seems quite natural.

Any opinions on using quick lime in a gravesite to help decomposition along? I know someone who does that.

To the OP, I can agree that a horrid smell would be a terrible problem. I agree with those who suggested at least asking him to do it correctly so you don't gag when the wind comes from his place.

Laurel

Yes, there is a cremation service here. But, it's not like human cremation at all and the service is provided through the local rendering company. A pile of carcasses are put in a pit and all are cremated at once. You pay a fee for the cremation and at the end of it all you get a couple of cups of...someone's....ashes and a pretty urn to store them in. It could be a few ashes from your horse, a few from someone else's.

[Go Fish]

Spoken like someone who lives in the 'burbs (no offense intended). Maybe where you live this is unacceptable but in much of the country, including my part of Virginny, you can legally bury your horse in your manure pile or in your field or let the buzzards pick it clean. Hell, I intend to be buried on my property, which is legal in the state of VA.

No advice for the OP. Maybe, as the others have suggested, give him some manure if that's what's needed.

I don't live in the "burbs" and I grew up on a 280 acre Black Angus/alfalfa hay/horse farm. I'm a lawyer...I think you'd be surprised that the majority of the country does NOT allow you to bury a horse/cattle carcass in a manure pile or haul it off in the woods to rot..or bury it on your land, for that matter.

I do NOW live on a small hobby farm nestled amongst large dairy farms. Carcasses must be removed within 48 hours and you cannot bury them on your property. If you're caught doing so, you are in some serious trouble.

[snkstacres]

I was wondering then, if you cant bury them on your property, how do you dispose of them?

I have a burial site here on the farm, high up on a hill, far away from any neighbors or waterways but still, if you cant get a backhoe in???????????????????

A neighbor here had an old horse that died in the bush. There was no way to get anything in there to pull it out and by the time it was found due to smell, who the heck wants to pull it out. I helped her put lime on it to composte it faster but..............just what can one do really? I felt sad for her cause she had owned it all its life but........ that is nature I am afraid. Within a couple weeks, there was no evidence it had ever been there.

[S1969]

In my county, our vet clinic can *only* compost horses for burial, not simply bury them. I believe my vet said it is because it is more sanitary - they are composted for a certain period of time and can then be buried. I would imagine if the vet clinic is only allowed to compost, then the rest of us would be allowed to if we chose, as well. Clearly, however, the composting isn't being done properly; sounds like it's not deep enough. I agree - this could be a great way to empty your manure pile!

[TikiSoo]

I'm in agreement with GoFish, it isn't legal to bury animals everywhere unless with a permit. In the city, you can't bury your cat or dog in your backyard, although everyone does it.

In the country, it's not legal to bury your horse because it can contaminate the soil or water table. Especially if your horse has an illness (like uvietis) or on meds, they want it properly disposed of. But again, most people have enough property they ignore the law and it's just fine.

I had this problem when I had to euthenize my aged sick horse. I found several facilities that would cremate her. Just look for any agricultural or veterinary college. I decided instead to donate her body to veterinary students. She was enbalmed and then buried on their property. Permit of course!

[Cielo Azure]

"I'm a lawyer...I think you'd be surprised that the majority of the country does NOT allow you to bury a horse/cattle carcass in a manure pile or haul it off in the woods to rot..or bury it on your land, for that matter. "

Actually, a quick google search shows that most states DO allow burying of livestock carcasses. GoFIsh -Where did you get your law degree? Generalizations such that you made don't go far in this world of google searches. My quick search showed that the MAJORITY of states do allow it. Yes, it is state by state (for instance: CA doesn't allow composting, -I think but it wasn't an official site)

Examples:
AL: -it is legal
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/A/ANR-1324/
GA (where I live) -it is legal
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1328.htm
KA -it is legal

I couldn't find anything on NY.

Do a search on your state before listening to the advice of so-called lawyers who don't bother to get the facts but rely instead on their own local laws to interpret laws for the rest of the country.

[Kareen]

Eeek. I know your land is much wider than us in crammed little Europe here but I can't believe there aren't rules and procedures in place to remove and dispose carcasses from any farm. I mean how about ground water protection, disease-prevention, insect-born infections etc.etc.?
While I agree we tend to be a bit over the top with our regulations here allowing people to compost large animal carcasses in their own manure-pile as a regular practice seems on the other side of extremes. What with those irresponsible individuals we all know exist who don't give a rat's ass about what juices of composting go into the soil and where?

[SGray]

excerpt from this short article entitled "Methods of Large Animal Disposal in Florida"
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/document_vm133

"Composting is defined as the controlled decomposition of organic materials. It is a sanitary and practical method of carcass disposal. Breakdown of the carcass occurs by bacterial degradation and yields an odorless, humus-like substance....

.....Properly designed composting systems have a positive environmental impact, reduce the amount of solid waste that may potentially be dumped into landfills, yield no air or water pollution, and require no chemical additives. The ingredients required for composting are simply moisture, air, bacteria, and a carbon source (straw, inedible feed, bedding material, and other materials)...."

[SGray]

and another
http://www.milkproduction.com/Library/Articles/Composting_Large_Animal_Mortalities.htm

[Cielo Azure]

Most states do have rules, most states you can't abandon carcasses. You have to bury, compost, render or burn.

"I mean how about ground water protection, disease-prevention, insect-born infections etc.etc.?"

Most cities in the USA will have stricter rules due to density issues but states do allow disposal on the property because of the rural nature of most of the USA and carcasses have to be disposed of. If you are in any number of states, a rendering facility or dump could be hundreds of miles away from where you live.

But can you elaborate? I am trying to figure out what you mean.

Ground water protection? The filtration system of sand, dirt, etc has done a fine job of protecting ground water from biologic infestations. Wild animals don't die? Have you heard of ground water being contaminated from animal burial? Now, I am assuming we are speaking of single carcasses, not some but intensive farming, such as a hog factory or slaughter houses (which will have lots of regulations -as they are in the intensive food business, considered a health hazard already and fall under USDA and FDA laws).

What insect-born infection is going to arise from a buried or composted carcass? Remember most states do have laws about abandomnent of carcasses, they do have to be buried, burned, rendered or composted.

Disease-prevention. Elaborate, please. What diseases occur from a properly buried carcass?

[Just Wondering]

Now in the dead (pun intended!) of winter, moving the manure pile is a very rare occurrence. That same day, right after, a very unpleasant smell wafted over, so bad that I started gagging.

Wrong. My husband mixes up the manure pile about once a week. Since the manure heats and the moisture from the snow helps to break things down, you need to rotate just as you would a garden compost pile.

The odor of 'burnt' manure can be quite unpleasant. If you do not rotate the pile, you can get hot spots that can actually burn.

[theoldgreymare]

I don't live in the "burbs" and I grew up on a 280 acre Black Angus/alfalfa hay/horse farm. I'm a lawyer...I think you'd be surprised that the majority of the country does NOT allow you to bury a horse/cattle carcass in a manure pile or haul it off in the woods to rot..or bury it on your land, for that matter.

I do NOW live on a small hobby farm nestled amongst large dairy farms. Carcasses must be removed within 48 hours and you cannot bury them on your property. If you're caught doing so, you are in some serious trouble.

I didn't say the "majority of the country", my post said "much of the country". There is a difference, it is not just a matter of semantics. I stand corrected on the suburbia comment.

So what do you do with dead livestock in your area? Render? Cremate? Those options are not available to every locale (including mine).

[Bayou Roux]

Is there any evidence that it is a horse carcass?

Maybe it's the wife. Or the last neighbor who complained about the smell....

;)

[JSwan]

Is there any evidence that it is a horse carcass?

Maybe it's the wife. Or the last neighbor who complained about the smell....

;)


A rural version of Rear Window!!???? :lol:

[SMF11]

Hey GoFish, I'm a lawyer too!

Ya know, it is not exactly a secret when you bury your horse on your farm -- the vet practice helped me when we put my old guy down, the backhoe operator I hired to dig the hole knew about it too . . . In fact, the vet practice could not tell me anyone who would be able to take my old horse if he couldn't make it through the winter and the ground was frozen. If a solely equine practice in a more heavily-regulated state (NY) ONLY knew of farm burial as the way to dispose of a dead horse, . . .

[goponies]

Wrong. My husband mixes up the manure pile about once a week. Since the manure heats and the moisture from the snow helps to break things down, you need to rotate just as you would a garden compost pile.

The odor of 'burnt' manure can be quite unpleasant. If you do not rotate the pile, you can get hot spots that can actually burn.


I quite know the difference between the smell of manure that's composting and the smell of decomposing flesh!

[goponies]

Is there any evidence that it is a horse carcass?

Maybe it's the wife. Or the last neighbor who complained about the smell....

;)

Hehe
I saw the wife today and she's still alive. And we actually moved here before they did...Come to think of it, maybe it's one of the numerous kids that they teach to...You know fresh mouth and all, maybe he couldn't take it anymore.
No evidence it's a horse carcass, but it stinks more than a squirrel! They house 35+ horses on their property, they should have enough manure to properly compost a large mammal...be it human or equine!

[SGray]

likely needs more shavings

from the milkproduction site

"(a) Carbon-rich material can include lots of different things. Sawdust is splendid stuff if you can get it. Wood shavings will work well, too, if they’re small enough – the larger they are, the less effective they are in a compost pile. Community brush-chipping sites often make a very nice material for composting. Rotten old hay bales, cotton gin trash, shredded sugar beets, peanut hulls and other browncolored crop residues will work nicely. Mixing two or three types of carbon-rich material together is even better. (The wider the variety of particle sizes in your pile, the better the balance among air movement, insulation, pile strength and surface area for the microbes to feed on.) You will need about 3-5 cubic yards of the material for every 1,000 pounds of carcass; less if the material yields its carbon easily, more if it does not. “Seeding” the pile of material with some manure or unfinished compost will kick-start the composting process even before the carcass shows up. (We think that’s a pretty good idea, in fact.)."

[PonyPile]

I gotta say though, my manuer pile was the perfect place to dump the *shot but still kickin'* snapping turtle that tried to pick off my duckies.

you burried an injured animal alive? :confused:

[silver2]

for instance: CA doesn't allow composting,
CA does allow composting, at lead of poultry and probably larger animals too. They regulate burial where I live due to a high water table but when you think about it CA has more varied terrain than all of Europe so the best method of disposal depends on where you live. I think the nearest rendering plant is about 250 miles, so not an option. In a pinch coyotes do a pretty good job on the 800 million deer that get hit on my road every year.

If this carcass is not breaking down its probably because of the cold weather. The pile needs more woodchips or shavings to generate heat to allow the bacteria to do their work.

[merrygoround]

Is there any evidence that it is a horse carcass?

Maybe it's the wife. Or the last neighbor who complained about the smell....

;)

:D :D :D

[Woodland]

Is there any evidence that it is a horse carcass?

Maybe it's the wife. Or the last neighbor who complained about the smell....

;)

Suck it up. In the dead of winter the stink is probably just rotated manure pile - that can STINK!

Why don't you go and ask :confused: I am always ASTOUNDED at the number of people who will post publicly about something that should be resolved neighbor to neighbor - person to person. :no: But it seems cowardice and sensationalism is better :confused:

[CanterQueen]

you burried an injured animal alive? :confused:

I was thinking the same thing. :eek: