Aiding the foaling mare

[TrueColours]

I was watching a foaling a few nights back on a <web cam>. Maiden mare, very restless, water broke at 8:00 pm, sac started to come out a few minutes later and you could see the the legs protruding inside the sac up to maybe the fetlocks

Mare is going down and pushing and pushing and very little progress is being made. She'd get up pace and kick and go back down again and push some more, get up and pace and back down again. By the 20 minute mark, the owner comes in when she is down, takes a look and then goes back out again. Right now there is about halfway up the cannon bone sticking out and the sac has broken and both legs are visible but no head.

If this was me and my mare and foal, and the sac had broken, I'd be in there helping, but perhaps it easy to be critical sitting in front of your computer screen thousands of miles away ...

The mare continues to push to no avail and starts to get up again and by now it is 30 minutes since the water broke and 10 minutes since the sac broke and if that foal slides back down again, it may well suffocate

Now several of them come in and one goes to assist and the other ones hold the mare down and the foal is finally born 37 minutes after the water first broke

The mare looks totally exhausted and is laying flat out and not moving and the foal has movement in its ears and head so thankfully it is alive

This farm also takes in outside mares for foaling according to their website but if this was my mare and foal, I would have wanted to see a more interactive and proactive approach taken, especially that far into the foaling process and most definately once that sac had ruptured. Yes - perhaps some overzealous people jump in too early for no reason at all, but IMO only assisting at the 35 minute mark after the water has broken and 10 minutes after the sac has ruptured, especially with the mare having problems getting the foal out on her own was pushing things a bit too far ...

Agree or disagree? And when do you make the decision to go into the stall to assist rather than leaving the mare to her own devices to get the foal out?

[Equilibrium]

I think no matter what you do someone is always critical when it comes to foaling mares. Every year there's threads on helping too much or not helping at all. Quite a fine line.

We try not to help too much. While, personally, I think it's best to check them as soon as the water breaks to make sure everything is in the right position. This is usually done with cell phone in hand too, I'm a panicky when it comes to the mares! If everything is looking good then we go back out and let the mare get down to business. What will do for some of the mares is keep a gentle hold of the foals legs, but not pulling. Also varies on the mare. Some are really happy to have you help and others tend to get a bit anxious and won't settle if you're "annoying" them.

I have noticed a tendency in Ireland to pull that foal on out of there as they do with cattle. It really irkes me. My sister in law use to be on hand when my mares were foaling as she figured we were not very good. She helped with one maiden foaling and proceeded to start dragging the foal out of the mare. Mare got up and wouldn't go back down so foal was born with mare standing. Tricky situation with me yelling and family, but anyway it was her last time with that crap. Luckily all were fine. Ever since then that mare has decided to have her foals outside. As we got lucky with the weather and a nice place for her to do so, I didn't mind as I was there with my foaling kit and she was much happier. Outside births aren't a taboo if you're there, the weather agrees, and it's not a mud hole! The foals get up much quicker and it's easier for them. Plus you have a big bonus of taking them back in to a lovely clean dry stall!

Another time I had a foal present with 2 little feet upside down and no head. Called vet straight away, got mare up and walked her while gentley keeping foal pushed back in between contractions. Luckily that all turned out alright too. Like I said I'm panicky, but it's because I just want them to be alright and luckily my vet understands this. He says if it's foaling season and sees my number pop up, chances are it won't be too terrible, but if he sees a big stud farm number pop up with a very experienced foaling person, it could be big trouble.

Anyway, yapping on. I think it's a fine line and everyone is different. I like my mares to be doing all or most of the work. Of course a big fat mare who's stabled most of the time isn't going to be as helpful as a slightly fitter mare. But always remember with mare stare, there's always crititcs no matter what you do.

Terri

[Rhyadawn]

I think no matter what you do someone is always critical when it comes to foaling mares. Every year there's threads on helping too much or not helping at all. Quite a fine line.

Agreed.

Its a personal thing based on your knowledge and experience and comfort level. Is there a right and wrong?? Who's to say. What works for you is what you do.

[Signature]

To me there seems like a feeling in your gut occurs when you don't think it's going quite right or taking a little too long. Maybe this happens after you've attended a certain number of foalings. We check position as soon as we see feet and then step out and observe, keeping time on a watch. Plus we know our mares and what they normally do. If it seems like there is a point where there is no progress, we then step in to see what we can do. I would almost rather help too much than not enough just to err on the side of caution. The mares and babies are too precious to sit idly by and watch something terrible unfold.:yes:

[vandenbrink]

Well..I'm originally from a dairy farm and assisted cows long before I assisted horses.

When the mare is ready to deliver, down, and pushing I don't see any reason why I shouldn't help her out. I think they appreciate the help..it's hard work, and there is not reason for my mare to get completely worn out pushing out a big foal if I can help pull it out.

[Daydream Believer]

I generally do assist also. I stay out of the stall most of the time until I see the amnion and water breaking..let her lay down or I stay back along the wall in the stall and wait. Some mares will leap up if you are too quick to come in and some won't like down at all. They are all different. One mare, a veteran momma looks for me, nickers when I come in, and seems happier when I'm in there helping her. I talk to them also...of course. ;-)

I will usually maintain enough traction on the legs to not allow the foal to slip back in. When the mare pushes I will add some gentle traction downwards on the legs to the hocks and will help get the shoulders out in a big foal. I do think if one can help and is comfortable with it...knows the mare and how to assist without harming either one...there is no harm in it. If it makes the delivery easier on both of them particularly...it is a good thing.

As soon as the foal is out though, I'm usually back out of the way and stay back until I see the foal is accepted and all is well.

[HSGF]

Once my mares break their water I do go in with a glove to check position of the foal. Time is so important.......if there is a problem I could already be in there trying to correct it while the foal is back and there is usually a bit more room to work with. If there is not a problem (most of the time there's not) I let Mom do her thing and I only give her a hand to pass the shoulders and hips if she needs it.
Again I am experienced and have done a lot of foalings......I also work in the Therio department at a vet college so I see the worst of the worst come in....... In saying that I would much rather check the foals postition when the water breaks....timing is of the essence.

[Daydream Believer]

Good point about checking the foal's position when the water breaks. I have only done that so far if I suspect a problem or it seems to be taking a bit longer than expected to see legs. It is such a relief to feel two front feet pointing downward and a head laying on top of them.

[HeatherSC]

I agree that it's a fine line, and a personal preference. I believe Equilibrium is spot on with her comment that it doesn't matter what you do, someone will be critical. When it comes down to it you have to follow your gut, your heart and your vet.

We have miniatures and we don't wait...as soon as the mare is down and pushing we go in and check the position. I prefer to be proactive, rather than reactive and time is of the essence. Minis seem more prone to redbags and I prefer to know what's coming so I can assist as needed.

We are very hands on through the delivery and afterward and there are some that appreciate it and some that criticize it. So be it...it's our way and it works for us.

The foaling the other night was a hard one. The mare was a maiden and the foal was large. It did take over 30 minutes, but the foal was bright and alert when it arrived. Yes, the mare was exhausted, but I'm not sure I've seen any mares that weren't after a deliver. I could be wrong, but.. I haven't seen it. That's why it's called labor! :winkgrin: I think they did the best they could with the situation they had, and from what I understand their vet was there.

In the end they have a healthy foal and mare.

I know this is a Sport Horse board, but I tend to watch it off and on for the experience I can gain from others.

Happy foaling!

[Fairview Horse Center]

Once my mares break their water I do go in with a glove to check position of the foal. Time is so important.......if there is a problem I could already be in there trying to correct it while the foal is back and there is usually a bit more room to work with.

Exactly. I want to know everything is in position as soon as possible, and before it progresses to be tight in the birth canal. MUch easier to find a leg or head and get it in position. I don't stress over an upside down presentation, as the mom usually can straighten them out with getting up and going back down on the other side.

Once the mare is down and pushing, I do assist a bit, and if she seems to be having trouble with the shoulders, we definitely assist, and I get my husband or son, as I am just not strong enough, to maintain the steady pull for that long - especially if in an awkward position, against the wall, or in the corner..

On another note, I have had mares that we have assisted a good deal each year for 4/5/6 years, sneak one out on us while I am still stuffing my feet into shoes, so the help has not interfered with their ability to deliver on their own.

[Equilibrium]

Darlyn,

You're much more experienced than I am, if I see anything other than a normal presentation I call my vet.:)

Terri

[Fairview Horse Center]

Darlyn,

You're much more experienced than I am, if I see anything other than a normal presentation I call my vet.:)

Terri

It is good to get them on the way, but usually you will have a few seconds to minutes to eliminate a big, deadly problem from a small easy fix. By the time a vet gets there, you have almost always lost at least the foal, and the mare is at severe risk.

A head or neck a bit out of position can go to turned back on the next contraction. The one after that, it becomes jammed, with the foal so tight in the birth canal, that you can't get it to slip, or push it back for room to fix things.

I actually won't take the time to call a vet's number as it may be too late for an easy fix by that point.

[Home Again Farm]

Once my mares break their water I do go in with a glove to check position of the foal. Time is so important.......if there is a problem I could already be in there trying to correct it while the foal is back and there is usually a bit more room to work with. If there is not a problem (most of the time there's not) I let Mom do her thing and I only give her a hand to pass the shoulders and hips if she needs it.

Ditto. There are about 3-5 minutes between the water breaking and real pushing. I always check position as soon as the water breaks and have made small corrections that made a big difference in ease of delivery. I also apply gentle traction to help the mare. :yes:

[Elfe]

It takes my vet about 40 minutes to get here. I check the presentation as soon as possible so that I can have the vet on the way before things get ugly. She always tells me she rather be called and it be a false alarm rather than being too late to avert a disaster.
I help the mares as much as I safely can, I want them not to be exhausted and enjoy their new baby.