Turning a puppy into a great farm dog - Tips needed!

[Vandy]

Forgive me if this thread is repetitive - I am short on time an a quick search yielded nothing...

My new puppy is coming home today! He's a 4-month old boxer-hound-something else mix who had a rough start at a "rescue" that was shut down for animal neglect/abuse and has been fostered for the past 2 months. When he visited here last week, he was pretty indifferent to the horses - no barking or agression, but no evident fear either.

Those of you who have raised puppies around horses, tips on keeping him safe? Part of me wanted to adopt an older dog that was already "experienced" with horses but this one stole my heart and was in great need of a home. I am hoping he will eventually be able to hang out in the barn with me all day, but as he grows, I obviously won't be able to keep an eye on him every minute. He won't be small enough to carry around for long ;)

[deltawave]

Can't help too much, as I've only had either kenneled dogs or house dogs, not "farm dogs" per se. I have a lab that's my first "farm dog" and I will share the "horse proofing" anecdote that worked for her. Her first day, she was so excited that she ran out to meet the horses. Now I know my young mare really likes dogs, so I had no worries there. The old mare makes faces at them but is very tolerant and so I was OK there. The Shetland was an unknown--she's been known to chase the barn cats away from her foals but she didn't have a foal at this time. So doggie went wagging and smiling up to investigate the Shetland, who pinned her ears and struck out with both front hooves, quick as lightning. Yikes! Doggie got her feathers ruffled, yelped and skedaddled out of there, and has never approached a horse in a careless or disrespectful manner again. :)

So I'd say if you can find a very small equine with no shoes to teach the doggie proper etiquette around a horse, that's pretty much ideal. :) Failing that, introduce the pup to your most trusted horse, on a leash, and be prepared to "supervise" at first. But don't be surprised if the dog has to learn the hard way that horses are big and opinionated and have hard, pointy ends. :)

Good luck!

[CB/TB]

Your pup should learn the basic commands and respect them . Come, stay down, wait, leave it , etc. will be valuable in the years to come. Maybe a puppy class to socialize him to people and other dogs. Boxers are great family dogs . Good luck with your little guy.

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

I respectfully disagree with deltawave, as I've seen major accidents (that brought major vet bills) with dogs who were not taught to leave the horses alone. One mistake on the dogs part could mean his life, especially a puppy. I would buy a comfy bed, harness and leash, and teach him "place" by leading him to his bed and putting him in a down and tethering him until you have an absolute recall. The hound part of him will make it tougher, as they can be a bit stubborn when it comes to "hunting". Every day, show him his boundary. If he shows interest in the horses, correct and big praise when he responds and turns attention from them to you. Nip ANY barking, chasing etc in the bud with BIG reaction. As he gets older, if he is still not quite getting it, a shock collar can do wonders.

Good Luck and HAVE FUN with your new litte guy! :)

[merrygoround]

I have found that herding breeds hardest to get sense through. And I agree that a disaster can occur in the blink of an eye. A strike is the most dangerous, as it has a pile driver effect, a kick usually but not always will throw them. A strike plus teeth is a disaster. Keep the puppy leashed and under complete contol until you are sure what his tendencies are, and understands the No! word.

[Bluey]

Train and confine.:yes:

[costco_muffins]

The best command that we taught our dogs was OUT. They are not allowed in the kitchen while we are cooking, nor are they allowed in the dining room while we are eating. This skill translated easily to the barn aisle: OUT meant get out from underfoot, out of the aisle, out of the paddock, out of the pasture. A few repetitions and they began to understand that paddocks and barn aisles are for horses only, and they are only allowed in if they are invited. The pasture is a little harder, but that is only because they want to chase the wild rabbits and mice that live in the tall grass, not the horses.

[Equino]

I grew up with Boxers, wonderful dogs, great with people, not naturally farm dogs. My parents are big on dog training, so all the dogs learned basic commands (sit, down, stay, come, heel and even out and off) before being allowed off leash around the horses. They were on leash around the barn to be familiarized with the horses at a young age. A couple were not good farm dogs-just didn't show common sense, but more so, they didn't stay around the barn the way my current dogs do. I have a Sheltie and an Aussie, herding dogs who are perfectly content to stay around the horses-ready to work if I say so, and patient to just hang out. From the get go, the Sheltie just "got it." The Aussie was a bit more fearless and silly, but after getting run over once, he has tremendous space respect for the horses.

They both have been through obedience school. A big part with training is repetition and being consistent. Pick your lingo and stick with it. For example: if I say "Leave it" they do not "help" me with if I'm lunging or there is a loose horse. They learned "Out!" means do not enter stalls or paddocks.

If "Come" is an issue, or if your puppy wants to wander a lot and not check back in with you-I played hide and seek. At first, everytime the puppy would come find me, I'd praise and treat. Eventually I'd only give a treat here and there. When they would wander off, I'd call and hide so they had to find me, then I'd praise and treat like crazy. Make a game of it, but try to get the point across it is good to check in with mom. I wouldn't advise leaving a puppy loose all the time though-just when you can watch him and use that time to play little games that teach him correct behavior.

Another thing to be aware of is hounds track scents. That's their nature. Neither a Boxer or a Hound were bred to be farm dogs, so there will be times instinct kicks in and they are off. The same way staying by the barn and watching the horses is natural for my herding dogs, running down a scent is a way of life for Hounds. Boxers can be territorial, with people and other dogs. They may be less likely to run off, but you never know.

Another helpful tip-crate train the puppy from the get go. Some take to it easily, others can be tough. My Aussie HATED the crate. He would eat his meals in there but otherwise I had to make it a game before he was comfortable. I bought a Kong, stuffed it with Cheese Wiz and made sure to only let him out when he was not carrying on. Now, if I get his food ready or take out the dog cookies, he RUNS into his crate and waits. Very helpful with a puppy that's learning to be housebroken and helps when you can't watch them all the time.

Lots of luck!!!!

[EqTrainer]

The best command that we taught our dogs was OUT. They are not allowed in the kitchen while we are cooking, nor are they allowed in the dining room while we are eating. This skill translated easily to the barn aisle: OUT meant get out from underfoot, out of the aisle, out of the paddock, out of the pasture. A few repetitions and they began to understand that paddocks and barn aisles are for horses only, and they are only allowed in if they are invited. The pasture is a little harder, but that is only because they want to chase the wild rabbits and mice that live in the tall grass, not the horses.

:yes: My dogs all know OUT, too. Universal commmand! Now if only I could get Mr. EqT to use it, instead of a barrage of words while gesturing :confused:

One thing I teach all my dogs that is INVALUABLE in my opinion is that if they want something - anything, including attention/petting/affection that they have to SIT. This curbs so many undesireable behaviours.. they never jump on on you, they are automatically being respectful, and it is so easy. A handful of kibble and some patience as far as ignoring them in any other position - boy, they get it quick. The other day I opened the front door to find the UPS man, biscuits in hand, getting a kick out of all three of them lined up in front of him. He says they are the most well mannered dogs he "visits" on any given day.

It is hysterical when they all run up to me and.. sit.

[Vandy]

Thanks for all the advice! He is, of course, the cutest puppy in the world, and has been wonderful so far. I was warned that he has not been in a house, and is not housebroken, but he already wants to pee outside (poop, not so much, but we're working on it...) And he took to sleeping in the bed with me like a fish to water - didn't fuss or get up until the alarm went off. He gets neutered on Thursday and I'm going to ask the vet for some recommendations re: obedience classes. Has anyone tried the ones offered at Petsmart? Any good? Being a (horse) trainer, I'm sure there's good and bad trainers for puppies as well, but I would definitely like to do some structured classes.

[eponacelt]

Petsmart classes are only as good as he people teaching them. A good friend took their dog there and got nothing out of it. Could be the method, but more likely the teacher.

I would suggest finding out if there is a canine agility club near you or a club that trains for obedience. Many of those types of clubs have intro level, puppy classes and they are VERY skilled with all sorts of dogs. I actually started with a primarily agility club just because it was close, and ended up doing agility with my dog for a while (until I just ran out of time to devote to it!).

[bhrunner06]

I took one of my dogs through the Petsmart beginner class...it was great for socializing, learned a few things, but for the most part, everything the trainer said, i already knew to do on my own, and had been working on. So its kind of one of those things that you may learn something, you may not. Just depends on the dog/individual. I took one of my other dogs and stopped with her after the 2nd class. She was to hyper and the trainer was just getting annoyed, didnt really try to help us fix it. So I just quit going.

[Bluey]

Depending where you are in NM, there are some really good performance dog clubs there, one in Clovis, in Alburquerque and Las Cruces are the ones I know as those people come here to show.

Those clubs have beginner classes for the public and their teachers are good, as they have trained many dogs and people.

PetsMart, it will depend who at any one time is teaching.
Some of our club members, when they need a little extra money, have taught there, but they comment that they have to adhere to their program and that it is not always that good, other than for some very basic training and of course it is excellent for socializing your puppies/dogs.

I doubt that such classes there would be harmful, if that is the only place you have available to you.

[Equino]

I'd check into Petsmart as well. My sister took her Aussie to a Puppy class they offered. While she said they "didn't teach her anything she hadn't heard before" as well, socialization is SO important at this stage. And I don't mean letting puppy run amuck with other puppies, but learning to behave in public and listening to mom amongst distractions. You can always move on after puppy class if you choose.

Can I offer a helpful tip on housebreaking? Crate training is great that way you are setting up a routine-eat in crate, outside to do potty. Sleep in crate, outside to do potty, etc. And I always say,"Do potty." when I let dogs out. Another thing that works good is putting shavings down somewhere in the house, by a door, to encourage puppy to go on shavings, and putting shavings outside as well. Eventually no shavings in house, only outside, and you'll recognize when puppy needs to go out because he'll run to the door. I did both with my Aussie and I swear, he had maybe 5 accidents total. By the time he was 7 months, completely house broke, no shavings needed. Except when it's raining, he heads to the barn!

[Vandy]

I know he should be sleeping in a crate overnight...I am being selfish as I really miss having a dog sleeping on my bed, and he loves it. But I didn't love it last night at 4am when he decided it was time to play.

I assumed as much re: Petsmart. But may go there initially for some socialization. There are some local trainers who do groups too (I am outside Santa Fe, too far from the places Bluey mentioned) but it's a very dog-friendly town so surely there are some good programs here.

[BuddyRoo]

Because I spend every Saturday in either Petsmart or Petco, I would recommend that you NOT take your young pup there until he's for sure healthy and up to date on his entire series of vaccs including bordatella (kennel cough). I see SO MANY sick animals in there each weekend. Germ fest.

Anyway....

On the one hand, I think that getting nailed once does teach the lesson very quickly. But it's not a risk I like to take.

My pup (now 5) has been around the horses since he was 8 weeks old. At first, I'd take him to the barn w/ me and put him in a stall while I did chores, then have him on a leash and walk around and do my "training" with him. Basic commands are huge.

Once you know the dog will sit, stay, come, leave it, etc, you can take it a little further and go out with the horses.

I used to pony my dog off my one mare for trail rides. He has learned where to be when we ride based on that. I want him at my leg. Not in front, not behind. (though I will admit, when the flies are bad, he likes to go with his head in my mare's trailing tail for fly protection.)

He has also learned to "read" the horses. He knows that one of the mares thinks he's fine and the other would sooner kill him.

Just takes time and constantly paying attention.

I don't know HOW I taught this exactly, but my dog did learn that unless I invited him into the pasture or was riding, he was to stay outside of the pasture. That was a good one.

He also knows that when I'm practicing, it's a good idea to go lay down under the shade tree and watch. He occasionally will follow me over a jump or something when we're goofing off, but for the most part, he knows where he is supposed to be--I point and tell him to lay down and stay.

[Bluey]

Here are some contact numbers for you, one the Santa Fe Obedience Dog club, that I bet has lessons to the public, as ours has here:

http://www.akc.org/events/obedience/training_clubs/index.cfm?action=search_state&state=NM

At least they can direct you to who has some good classes in your area.

Our local college also has dog obedience classes, that our dog club members fill in as teachers many times, so you may check about that also.

[hansiska]

Here's my best dog training tip:

When you feed the puppy a treat, use a fork. Don't move it toward the dog; just put it in front of him and let him take the snack off it. The puppy will learn very quickly to take snacks gently. Sometimes give him a snack with the fork, sometimes from your hand. Soon, he'll take snacks out of your hand just as gently. My pit bull, trained this way as a puppy, has kept the lesson her whole life (14 years).

My dog gets along fine with dogs, BTW. We did just let them work it out together. I eventually ended up keeping my dog out of the pasture, though; the foals would chase her and pull her ears and she wouldn't even snap at them. I was afraid they'd hurt her, so I stopped it and just let her out with my old broodmare, who would stand over the dog while she napped (just like she would a foal).

[circusponydreams]

My puppy has been coming to the barn since we got him at about 12 weeks, too. I did things much the same as BuddyRoo describes, and he has turned into a great little farm dog. :yes:

While I was riding, I started out by putting him in a stall or the tack room, since I couldn't keep as close an eye on him. I progressed to tying him in the ring on a leash, and then on a lunge line. Once his commands were solid enough, I let him be free, and he figured out really quickly to stay within eyesight but to give me and the horse plenty of room.

He also figured out that he could duck under a fence when the pastured horses got too close, and he generally chooses to stay on the other side of the fenceline when I'm catching or turning out horses. He definitely knows the difference between my safe lease horse and the rambunctious 3-year-old who might stomp him.

Petsmart will hire just about anyone to teach obedience classes. If you can get together with a reputable trainer with some performance experience, I think you'll have a better time.

Also, I am another sap who doesn't crate her puppy. He sleeps on the bed, and he ended up housebroken and well-behaved anyway. :)

[Equino]

Because I spend every Saturday in either Petsmart or Petco, I would recommend that you NOT take your young pup there until he's for sure healthy and up to date on his entire series of vaccs including bordatella (kennel cough). I see SO MANY sick animals in there each weekend. Germ fest.

I don't know what Petsmart or Petco, but most Clubs will ask for vaccination records when you sign up. I know rabies and distemper/parvo are mandatory. Kennel cough vaccine isn't, and I don't do it-is not 100%, like the common cold-so many strains. And while outbreaks are fairly common, they are pretty self-limiting and usually no biggie.

But yes, get puppy vaccinated before going to any class!

[BuddyRoo]

Equino-

I'm talking about the general store. I don't know their policy for training classes (though I wouldn't pay a cent for the training I've seen at the stores local to me.)...

But I know that to enter the store with your pet, there are no checks. I've seen some REALLY sick, flea infested, nightmare deals walk through the door. I won't take my own dog there and he's vaccinated. When I'm done working my shift, I shower and change clothes before I mess with my dog. Similar to what I did when I worked at a veterinary clinic.

[Equino]

^^^Ugh. I had no idea! I would never just walk my dog into a pet store regardless, but there should be some sort of check-in, especially if they offer puppy classes. I guess there's not much difference going to a vet office anyway. My vet has a contract with the local pet store and it boggles my mind how some people have no clue-I'll be sitting there, minding my own business and these new, 1st time owners will allow their puppy to come jumping all over my dog. What if my dog is aggressive? What if my dog has fleas or Parvo??? Drives me insane!