Stallions: fire breathing dragons??

[Colored Sporthorses]

Just wondering, some people say they are fire breathing dragons and are not worth trying to handle. But my question is how could you show them if they are going to "jump" on anything? They are shown in western and english pleasure with other horses as well as other events? You see champion stallions in everything. So are they fire breathing dragons or do you just need a firm hand (and a handler who knows what he/she is doing)

I know it depends on the horse, trainer, handler but what are your experiences? What do you do to keep your stud under control?

[pintopiaffe]

My stallion is the best mannered horse on the place. He is impeccably kind, and wonderful to handle. The girls when horsing are another matter alltogether. :uhoh:

He was raised very well, some good basic cowboy starting (give to pressure, sacking out in a good way, rope savvy) but was not started under saddle.

I've raised 4 of his sons so far, one is still entire at 8 because there is just no need to geld him. Another is entire at rising 3 and is the heir apparent. He is turned out with his father and 5yo gelding brother.

I let my guy be a horse... he always had a wife, now I have a small bachelor herd. I know that's not possible for everyone.

If a stallion is NOT lovely to handle, he needs to have a lower labotomy. There are enough of them out there, manners and mind must be impeccable or else, IMO.

No, you can't forget they are stallions, but if they are handled well and trained fairly and consistently, the old wives tale about their testosterone 'just taking over' is just that. They will revert to correct TRAINING when handled correctly.

[FriesianX]

:lol::lol::lol: Some of them can be, but many stallions are lover boys. Generally, with stallions, the key is teach them the boundaries, and be CONSISTENT with those boundaries. Don't change the rules on them, it fries their little testosterone driven minds. Clearly separate sex from work. Consistency, consistency, consistency.

I've seen some rank stallions - ones I won't go near with a 10 foot pole. But also some that are as quiet as a kids horse. I've ridden in warm up arenas with stallions that scared the bejesus out of me, and others that were perfect gentlement.

I laughed at your image of the fire-breathing stallion, then sobered up as I recalled a few that DID meet that description.

[camohn]

Just wondering, some people say they are fire breathing dragons and are not worth trying to handle. But my question is how could you show them if they are going to "jump" on anything? They are shown in western and english pleasure with other horses as well as other events? You see champion stallions in everything. So are they fire breathing dragons or do you just need a firm hand (and a handler who knows what he/she is doing)

I know it depends on the horse, trainer, handler but what are your experiences? What do you do to keep your stud under control?

The stallion I had was a PIA at 2, but once we got past 2 he was a gentleman that could be ridden around mares no problem. Some stallions have a much higher libido and cannot do so safely, even WITH a good handler. It's not that mine didn't look at mares, but on the whole he was on the lower libido end for a stallion plus very early on he learned the phrase "not for you" as he lived in our one and only barn with mares that had to be walked past him on the cross ties. If he got too rammy he got backed up and told "she is NOT FOR YOU". That carried over to under saddle work well. If he was eyeing a mare in the ring and I told him NOT FOR YOU he hung his head and deflated.
It WAS in fact hard to find a trainer I respected for him because so many of them DID start with the Fire Breathing Dragon view of stallions.....that they had to "show him who was boss" first so he didn't get any other ideas. This attitude generally came across the very first time said type of trainer met him. I expect him to have the same manners as any other horse in the barn: if he is aggressive or misbehaves it gets disicplined for a REASON....but NO pre emptive smacking around. He was my first stallion and I was kinda shocked by how many trainers held that SHow Him Who Is Boss view first. And he did NOT take kindly to it. Said "pro" would only get him to fight back that way and they would proceed to tell me this was "no horse for an ammy rider". I would then pet his nose, talk to him nicely and proceed to have not one bit of trouble hopping on him myself. He has a very developed sense of fairness....if you were nice to him he was just fine. By the time he was 4 most folks that did not know him at a clinic did not know he was not a gelding. He went to group clinics with mares in the ring though of course I kept him off to the side.....no point in asking for trouble...
Boomer lived out with a wife or a gelding son or weanlings. His now 2 YO son is out with the weaners but needs a new friend soon since they will be yearlings/time to move the fillies out! So far Junior is being a good boy...though about March I anticipate life will get more interesting......

On a humorous note there was one inspection I went to (where stallions WERE being presented): someone called out "stallion coming through" and all the mare owners hurried up to get mares out of the aisles...and then up tromps a weanling colt..............

[rideagoldenpony]

It depends on the stallion's individual temperament and the knowledge of the handler. I think pretty much any stallion could be quite awful in the wrong hands.

But.... for my own farm, life is MUCH too short to deal with anything other than extremely well mannered stallions. My daughter has routinely handled our boys for the past several years, and regularly rides our stallion, *Wedderlie Mardi Gras. I never worry about her with them, because they are so kind.

In fact, when my husband was BADLY injured in 2005, and spent quite a long time recuperating, he hobbled out to the barn one day on his crutches, because he just *had* to ride. He chose Mardi Gras (then 4 years old), who walked around soooooo carefully with him like he was a 25 year old gelding. He seemed to completely "get" that DH wasn't 100%, and absolutely took care of him. I wouldn't call that fire breathing by any stretch of the imagination! :D

[Daventry]

But.... for my own farm, life is MUCH too short to deal with anything other than extremely well mannered stallions.

Agreed! I would consider our two stallions "Winnie The Pooh's" rather than fire breathing dragons. Both are extremely well mannered and they know where and when it is breeding time...and the rest of the time, it is NOT! If a stallion is raised, handled and managed properly, they really can turn into perfect gentlemen. Our stallions also do not live alone and usually have a pregnant mare or foals in with them to keep them company. One of our stallions also has a llama in with him to keep him company! Horses are herd animals and sometimes a solitary stallion life can lead to loneliness and aggression.

At one show this summer, a lady's in heat mare cute right in front of our stallion in the middle of a Western Pleasure class and proceeded to try and lift her tail, stop and back up to us in the middle of our lope. Brandysnap didn't even seem to notice and politely carried on his way.

There are many well behaved stallions out there. And like someone else has already mentioned, with there being sooo many stallions to choose from already, there is just no place for an ill-behaved stallion. They would be much happier gelded...and I'm sure everyone else would be happier too! :)

[pintopiaffe]

he has a very developed sense of fairness....if you were nice to him he was just fine.

I absolutely agree with this. For some reason stallions in particular seem to be very, very clear about justice.

If I scold my guy for something he didn't do... or if I'm having a bad day and snap at him (verbally) in disparate proportion to the offense, he won't speak to me for days. He is highly offended.

Now, if something happens, as it rarely does, and his leetle testosterone pickled brain leaks out from those cute curve leetle ears... then I can reprimand him and he knows he was out of line, and there are no hard feelings.

I used to think it was him. The more stallions I worked around in the last 10 years at my teacher's, who has 10-20 stallions at any given time, the more I realized it is something in their makeup. Other horses may have an exaggerated sense of fairness, but MOST stallions do as a rule.

Fair and appropriate discipline is accepted and reacted to appropriately. The most minute over-correction or misplaced harsh word... and I've a puppy with his tail tucked between his legs at best, and a horse that can take several days to even LOOK at me at worst.

[camohn]

Now, if something happens, as it rarely does, and his leetle testosterone pickled brain leaks out from those cute curve leetle ears... then I can reprimand him and he knows he was out of line, and there are no hard feelings.


Yup.
We had That Day just about once every 3 months like clockwork. Every 3 months there would be The Day and you knew it was The Day from the moment I clipped him on the crossties and he took a swipe at me, which proceeded to a longe lesson from hell for up to an hour until he was no longer being a PIA. The next day all was well and was well for another 3 months....

[Dressage_Diva333]

My stallion is also the best mannered animal I own. I don't worry at all when taking him to shows or inspections, of course I keep an eye on him, just to make sure he's always staying focused on me. But he's very well mannered, and knows right from wrong. I was totally relaxed (well, as relaxed as one can be at an inspection) at his NASPR inspection when he got licensed. Whereas I have been a complete nervous wreck when taking mares to inspections, one of the broodmares I have hasn't really gotten out much in her life. I was very nervous about how she would behave in the static of an inspection, she ended up being okay, but still... I've never really had to get after my stallion, he was raised very well. Occasionally a quick little reminder is in order, but I don't tolerate non-sense or calling, or any of that. I've never allowed him to get away with it.

You see stallions all the time in warm ups, and you wouldn't even know they were stallions unless you looked downstairs. They are perfectly capable of behaving like civil show horses. I love working with stallions, I think they are very intelligent and sensitive horses, I've always prefered riding a well mannered stallion.

I have also seen stallions that most definately were "fire breathing dragons", I made sure to steer WAY clear of them. I'm sorry, but if a stallion can't keep it under control when it's time to work, then they need to be geldings. Like mentioned above, there are so many stallions as it is.

I couldn't agree more with Pintopiaffe. My stallion is the same way, if I over correct him, he is a puppy with his tail between his legs. That is actually a very good way to look at it Pintopiaffe :yes:

[unbridledoaks]

I totally agree if they are hard to handle, why keep them stallions. Yes, they are nice to look at, but why would you want something you just look at. I love our boys, and I believe that it runs in their breeding. Our Welsh Cob Stallion, Sunny, is a prime example of the temperament that runs in his bloodlines. I finished training him this year with myself being 4 to 6 months pregnant. Showed him at a few shows, and he was a total angel. Had everything happen to us at our first show that you could think of, and he acted like he had been there and done that, didn't even swish his tail.
Over the years of showing stallions, I have had a great set of stallions that have been so wonderful to show. If you handle them correctly and treat them right, they are wonderful to show. I will say that after showing them over the years, I will always have one in my show string :)

[aurum]

Mine are all easy to handle and as I am doing live cover that is very essential. Everybody can enter their box stalls and none of them gets crazy, bites or kicks. Soft characters all of them.

[NoDQhere]

Any fire breathing dragons on this farm would have a date with the fire extinguisher right quick :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Rhyadawn]

I've found that with all the stallions I've handled they were very sensetive. In the wrong hands they definitly could have turned into monsters, but with keeping fair and consistant they were good to handle.

Not all of them will be though, some just don't have the temperment for it, and those (IMHO) should be cut. There is no reason to have an animal around that is a danger to people.

[Kyzteke]

I will probably get flamed to a crisp over this, but I think much of it has to do with the breed, and (2nd) the handling they get when they are growing up.

I've found that many of the hotter breeds like racing TBs to be more likely to be "fire-breathing dragons." My stallion (an Akhal-Teke) was spoiled horribly as a youngster -- allowed to drag his owner around, rear...he even bred his first mare when he was barely two years old. I've seen alot of them that were challenges to handle as stallions. But historically the Russian/Turkomens almost encourage this sort of behavior -- there are pictures everywhere of these stallions rearing and walking around on their hindlegs. Seems the culture LIKES this sort of macho behavior.

Anyway, it took 2 years and LOTS of training for me to make him a good horsie citizen. But as nice as he's gotten now, I ALWAYS have to remember he's a stallion -- ALWAYS. Once I took him to a clinic where he & a number of other horses (mares, geldings & one other stallion) were all in an arena together. At first he was very interested, but then once he found out we were there for business he totally relaxed -- almost fell asleep when we weren't asking him to do anything.

But during a break I was walking him back to the trailer and went by a lady with her lovely mare -- I stopped very briefly to tell her what a nice mare she had -- by this time we were about 4 ft. from them. IMMEDIATELY Kinor's head went up, and he suddenly became "all boy." No damage done and I shut him down immediately, but I realized then that I could simply NEVER forget that there was a breeding stallion on the end of the lead rope.

But fire-breathing dragon? Hardly.

And with the more mellow breeds (WBs for example), many of the boys seem very laid back.

I remember Bazy Tinkersley (Arab breeder) saying that, without fail, if she couldn't take a colt out and lead it around with just a simple halter & lead, it got gelded. Period. Disposition was/is THAT important to her.

[smokygirl]

Arabians are one of the few breeds that allows stallions to be shown by youths. Many are shown, and I've never heard of any problems to arise from it. I've met some that are a little "hotter" than others and require a firm hand.. but most I know are loving, sweet and happy. If taught correctly, they are relatively easy to train to keep work and "fun" seperate.

[quicksilverponies]

My stallions are so laid back and quiet that people visiting the farm don't believe that they are stallions at first. They turn out with their mares or a group of geldings and are sweet and friendly out in the field and in the barn. I had a dragon before - he is now a gelding:).

[MyCatRules]

Many of the Baroque breeds are kept stallions - they are easy horses to handle, so kept whole even if no one will ever use them for breeding.

[Thomas_1]

All of mine have been well trained and well behaved.

Stallions can have a lot of personality and presence and they will be inclined to test who is the leader from time to time but if you know what you're doing then there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't behave well and be easy to handle

[Fairview Horse Center]

Yes, they are all fire breathing dragons. Here is mine.

[twofatponies]

I'm pretty inclined to think it is 90% handling that makes a stallion "good" or "bad". Some are surely be naturally inclined to be mellow or not anyway. The only two dreadful stallions I ever met were:

a) a beautiful beast who spent two hours in a stall waiting for his turn at a clinic I was auditing - literally climbing the walls. Each time he did, the little girl stationed at the door (which was just cracked open enough for her to have her hands inside) would jerk hard on the chain over his nose and then smack him with a lunge whip. It was obviously very effective training...:rolleyes:

b) a beautiful beast at an inspection who spent all of his time on the lead rope and most of his time under saddle leaping, cavorting, and kicking out violently with his hind legs, scattering passersby who happened to come too close. Both rider and handler pretty much ignored his shenanigans.

Every other stallion I've met has had impeccable manners, and could be ridden in mixed company without problems.

[Blue Yonder]

There's a whole lot to be said for the "nurture" in terms of what stallion behavior we create by our handling.

But sometimes there's nothing you can do about dragon behavior from a "nature" standpoint. And then you just geld them and go on your merry way.

Dragon behavior is not necessarily indicative of a mean, rotten horse either. There are often some great mellow geldings hiding in there. ;-)

[camohn]

OTOH the only "dragon" we have had here WAS a gelding! He given to my hubby for free since his owner could not cope with him. He was OK to ride and hubby did so but a real PIA to find a turnout situation that worked for him. He was more studdish than the stallion. And yes, I had him checked to see if he was a crypt.

[not again]

Same here! Our dragon is an imported gelding--originally very expensive but finally a giveaway because of his faulty social skills. He is a work in progress....

[okggo]

It SOOOOO much depends on environment. My boy wasn't gelded until 3, and he was by far the most safe horse to work around and deal with. He wasn't mouthy or rude, he was calm and quite thoughtful. He grew up in a herd environment and was treated like a horse, not like a "fire breathing dragon." I think there is a lot of the self-fulfilling prophecy there.

The most RANK horses I've dealt with have been geldings. I was there when one bit a large chunk out of a ladies boob and had the horror of watching another chase a guy down and bit off his ear. The first was just mean. The second decided he was a wild stallion, jumped in with the mares, herded them all up, and DID NOT appreciate trying to be caught.

I got to rehab a colt that was purchased at 3 month old and kept isolated from other horses. He was trained by the "winners" who think a female on her monthly can't go near a stallion. This foal was kept isolated until about 2 1/2 years old when he was finally gelded, and turned out in a pasture with pregnant mares the next day. He ended up getting the royal snot kicked out of him, and then ended up thinking they were his mares. When he finally came to me he was an absolute PIG to deal with. No respect for personal space, moved INTO you instead of away, and a horror in the field with other horses (ran to all new horses with his pecker swaying in the wind, and kicked the ever loving snot out of geldings). Had this horse been raised differently I really think he would have been a completely different animal, particularly given that his siblings were all great to deal with.

[Secretariat2]

Here is my "fire breathing dragon" stallion:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/juliablaschke/Navy%20Bird/SweetIndy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/juliablaschke/Navy%20Bird/IndyArgo.jpg

[horsepix76]

What do you do to keep your stud under control?

Geld him. ;) Seriously, life is too short to deal with a stud that is an asshole. Plus, I wouldn't want to pass that attitude down to offspring regardless of how talented his is. Well...if we're talking Storm Cat and I'm earning $500,000 per dose, I could be talked into dealing with that. But stud fees like that will never happen in the sport horse world.

[amdfarm]

Agree w/ pinto and many others. My non horsey mother has dubbed my stallion the "big black puppy." It fits him. His nickname is Boo.

I've known my stallion since birth as my friend's bred him. He was the last colt of my favorite stallion and mare that went down the road after he was born. I named him and raised him from a weaner. I had goals for him before I even broke him to lead.

He is definitely his father's son. Pretty much anyone can handle him and be around him w/out even knowing he's a stallion.

My big thing, w/ having kids, is that all of my horses have to tolerate kids and their densitizing antics. They do. I also don't treat my stallion any differently than my other horses. I expect them to all behave the same regardless of gender. If they behave they get treated well, if they don't they're reprimanded. My stallion hates being punished. He will pout, hang is out and corner himself if he knows he's been bad.

I started showing my boy as a yearling and he learned early on what's acceptable and what's not in public around other horses. He's never been a real studdy horse. He knows when he's allowed to talk and when not. He's been in the ring w/ all genders and does fine.

He's a very kind and patient soul and I'd like to think I had a lot to do w/ that, aside from his breeding. He's a Percheron and I love him dearly. :)