Welsh stallion for 16 h mare?

[myhorsehannah]

I have a lovely 16 h ISR mare that I would like to breed to a welsh stallion. She has produced 3 sport horse foals; this is my first experience with breeding to get a pony. I am aiming for a large pony size. I am not wild about most of the Sec A's I see. Any recommendations on Sec B stallions that would be good choices to ensure I do not end up with something over 14.2? I love Wedderlie Mardi Gras, Lands End Poseidon, Telynau Royal Charter...many other very nice B's out there, but I am concerned about size. Any advice on upper size limit for my stallion choice on this mare?

[Sugarbrook]

Are you breeding for a pony hunter?

I have had good luck breeding my Blue Who (his dam is purebred section A by Cusop Sparklet) to the large mares. Its always a gamble of course, but its worked for me and my customers.

What do you other pony breeders think?

[myhorsehannah]

What are registration options when breeding to a half welsh stallion?

[TrueColours]

I am totally and completely in love with a new stallion that Diane Jackson of Arnaby Stud has up here in Ontario, Canada - Mynach Mystical - a gorgeous light buttermilk buckskin Welsh B, originally imported from Scotland

Very typey and elegant, gorgeous chiseled head, terrific shoulder and topline and I am 99% certain that 2009 is his first year standing at stud ...

[quicksilverponies]

I have a smaller Sec. B stallion by Carolinas Red Fox that is a beautiful mover and has a wonderful quiet temperament. He is about 12.2 1/2 and has a huge floaty stride. He is a liver chestnut sabino. His first foals will be born this year. You can see photos of him on my website if you are interested. Good luck in your search.

[rideagoldenpony]

I am totally and completely in love with a new stallion that Diane Jackson of Arnaby Stud has up here in Ontario, Canada - Mynach Mystical - a gorgeous light buttermilk buckskin Welsh B, originally imported from Scotland

I didn't know Diane had bought him. HOW EXCITING!!! He IS spectacular, and by the same sire as my guy, *Wedderlie Mardi Gras. I believe he is a full sister to a filly I imported last spring, *Mynach Miss Daisy. I am a huge fan of those bloodlines. I believe Mystical is smaller and would be a good choice.

Mardi Gras is 13 hands, but I think you'd be pushing it with a stallion that size, though he does not have hidden size in his pedigree.

Charter is over 13.1 hands -- I personally wouldn't consider him for a large pony from that big of mare because of the size issues.

[TrueColours]

I didn't know Diane had bought him. HOW EXCITING!!! He IS spectacular, and by the same sire as my guy, *Wedderlie Mardi Gras.

Ah ... no wonder I like your guy so much! :D

Diane just emailed me a week or so ago on him, so I dont think the information is "out there" yet on him but her certainly is a nice new face on the pony stallion scene ... :)

[Dalemma]

I agree a 13 hand stallion may be too big with your 16 hand mare........and I love Mardi Gras...........think you need to be looking at stallions that are closer to 12 hands.

Dalemma

[myhorsehannah]

I didn't know Diane had bought him. HOW EXCITING!!! He IS spectacular, and by the same sire as my guy, *Wedderlie Mardi Gras. I believe he is a full sister to a filly I imported last spring, *Mynach Miss Daisy. I am a huge fan of those bloodlines. I believe Mystical is smaller and would be a good choice.

Mardi Gras is 13 hands, but I think you'd be pushing it with a stallion that size, though he does not have hidden size in his pedigree.

Charter is over 13.1 hands -- I personally wouldn't consider him for a large pony from that big of mare because of the size issues.


I agree 13 h is pushing it. I googled MYNACH MYSTICAL and love the look of him...but he is 12.3...probably also pushing it on size?

[VirginiaBred]

What are registration options when breeding to a half welsh stallion?


You can register the foal through the Welsh Pony & Cob Society as 1/2 welsh.

With a mare that size, you have to stick to a Section A welsh or you will not get a pony. She isn't a maiden mare and she's big.

Are you trying for a hunter pony foal?

I would suggest this lovely guy for a Section A selection: Dan Patch

http://www.snowmountainfarm.com/danpatch.htm

Here is his pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dan+patch3

[SabinoPonyLover]

My 16h TB mare is due mid March with a foal by a 11.3h Section A stallion. Unfortunately we lost our stallion in October, so this will be the only cross of these two. I am impatiently waiting on pins and needles for this one.

[quicksilverponies]

Not necessarily true. I have a 14.1hh large pony mare by Land's End The Colonels Fox (13hh and full brother to my two stallions) out of a 16hh TB mare. It depends on the genetics of the Sec. B stallion - most of the imported bloodlines tend to be smaller as their cut off for showing Sec. Bs is 13.2 vs. 14.2 here in the States. As both sire and dam of my stallions were imported from the UK, they don't have any really big genetics that will pop up unexpectedly.

[myhorsehannah]

You can register the foal through the Welsh Pony & Cob Society as 1/2 welsh.

With a mare that size, you have to stick to a Section A welsh or you will not get a pony. She isn't a maiden mare and she's big.

Are you trying for a hunter pony foal?


Just to be clear on the registration question -the resulting foal would be only 1/4 Welsh...it can be registered half-Welsh?

Yes, I am breeding for pony hunters. Is there an "A" you recommend? I prefer an already credentialed stallion (LOM, top show record, etc...)

[VirginiaBred]

Just to be clear on the registration question -the resulting foal would be only 1/4 Welsh...it can be registered half-Welsh?

Yes, I am breeding for pony hunters. Is there an "A" you recommend? I prefer an already credentialed stallion (LOM, top show record, etc...)

It can be registered 1/2 welsh only if you breed her to a pure welsh stallion.

Did you see the link I posted on my previous post? A lovely Section A for you to consider.

[quicksilverponies]

For some really nice hunter type Sec. A stallions, go to www.thistleworthwelsh.com. Paula Jo Bright has some lovely Sec. A stallions - most with Liseter breeding which has produced many nice hunter ponies.

[VirginiaBred]

For some really nice hunter type Sec. A stallions, go to www.thistleworthwelsh.com (http://www.thistleworthwelsh.com). Paula Jo Bright has some lovely Sec. A stallions - most with Liseter breeding which has produced many nice hunter ponies.


I agree. I forgot about them!

[myhorsehannah]

You can register the foal through the Welsh Pony & Cob Society as 1/2 welsh.

With a mare that size, you have to stick to a Section A welsh or you will not get a pony. She isn't a maiden mare and she's big.

Are you trying for a hunter pony foal?

I would suggest this lovely guy for a Section A selection: Dan Patch

http://www.snowmountainfarm.com/danpatch.htm

Here is his pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dan+patch3

Sorry, I did not see your link before I replied the first time. Yes, Dan Patch looks like a great prospect. What do you think of Severn Highlife?

[llsc]

My favorite A stallion is Twyford Cadog. He was the Reserve National Champion a few years back and he's a lovely and very sweet guy. He's 11.2 and very substantial. I've owned three ponies by him and I love, love, love them. I bred my 16 hand TB mare to him and got a terrific filly this past spring. He is stood by Cheryl Francella in Honeybrook, PA, but he doesn't have a website.

[llsc]

I also love, love, love, Pendock Larkspur. I'd breed to him in a hot second. He's got some very famous pony hunter babies.

http://hiddenspringsfarminc.org/Pendock%20Larkspur.htm

I really like Severn High Life. He's a lovely boy. I also really like Vimpenny Sweet Sultan.

http://www.glenhavenwelsh.com/section_a_welsh.htm

[VirginiaBred]

All of the Section A's mentioned are very good potentials for your lady!

[rideagoldenpony]

Just to be clear on the registration question -the resulting foal would be only 1/4 Welsh...it can be registered half-Welsh?

To clarify, only a foal sired by or out of a purebred Welsh parent can be registered as Half Welsh. There is no "partbred" registry at this time the way there is in other countries.

[TrueColours]

My favorite "A" stallion is Rotherwoods Bo Jangles also owned by Arnaby Stud here in Ontario. Diane imported him from the UK as a yearling or 2 year old, I saw him at the farm I boarded at for many years and absolutely fell in love with his type, his movement, his personality - the works! He is to die for gorgeous and he reminds me of an exquisite, chiseled TB in a pony package ... :)

I believe his first foals hit the ground in 2008, so Diane should have some pictures of them to share ...

[myhorsehannah]

I also love, love, love, Pendock Larkspur. I'd breed to him in a hot second. He's got some very famous pony hunter babies.

http://hiddenspringsfarminc.org/Pendock%20Larkspur.htm

I really like Severn High Life. He's a lovely boy. I also really like Vimpenny Sweet Sultan.

http://www.glenhavenwelsh.com/section_a_welsh.htm

Love the topline and hip on Pendock Larkspur.

[quicksilverponies]

TrueColors, Rotherwood Bo Jangles is indeed beautiful, but he is not a Sec. A Welsh stallion. He is a British Riding Pony and as such has quite a bit of larger breeding in his background. I don't think he would be a possibility for the OP's mare.

[VirginiaBred]

I've seen Larkspur on many occasions at Dianne's farm. He has been standing for the past few years at Heavenly Welsh.

He's my favorite of her stallions. :)

[Molly Malone]

Vimpenny Sweet Sultan
Telynau Falcon
Brookside Star Witness
BF Oliver Twist
Smoke Tree Silver Dragon

there's a huge number of simply beautiful Welsh stallions including all of those mentioned

[TrueColours]

TrueColors, Rotherwood Bo Jangles is indeed beautiful, but he is not a Sec. A Welsh stallion. He is a British Riding Pony and as such has quite a bit of larger breeding in his background. I don't think he would be a possibility for the OP's mare.


Interesting! You learn something new around here every day ... ;)

Thanks for the information ... :)

[Sakura]

Glenhaven Welsh (http://www.glenhavenwelsh.com/section_b_welsh.htm) ponies has a very nice selection of Bs. I bred my Arabian mare to their smoky black stallion Downland Condor.

[Windswept Stable]

Duntarvie Janus is another nice one. I had the pleasure of meeting him in person last spring --lovely boy.

http://www.lakeviewstud.com/

and I love the new on Sandy O-Brian bought last summer --I also met him and he is very nice Cadlanvalley Bodacious

http://www.lakeviewstud.com/

[rideagoldenpony]

*Pendock Larkspur is my *dream* Section A, but unfortunately, I don't believe his semen ships. (He's in his late 20's.)

[rideagoldenpony]

Speaking of Section A Welsh, have you seen *Trefaes Taran? He is absolutely GORGEOUS, has a huge and VERY impressive UK show record, many VERY successful offspring and the crossbred foals by him that I've seen (in photos) have been beautiful. He's a fabulous, fabulous mover too. (and I can't remember the name of the farm where he is for the life of me!)

[imajacres]

I prefer section Bs, and am really liking this guy in Canada, full brother to pony dot com.
http://www.baystarfarms.ca./index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=87
I will breed my super fancy Trakehner/tb mare to him once her lease obligations are over ( she is in foal for a lucky lady in Florida). I am speicifically looking for a stallion who is super loose and fluid through the shoulder, and this guy is that in real life.

Off topic, I am also thinking of maybe this one for a medium mare I have, or even a 14h maiden mare. What do you think my risk factor would be size wise for the 14h? And does anyone know this guy, I dont, looks nice though.
http://www.baystarfarms.ca./index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87&Itemid=97

[Sugarbrook]

Hes True Blue is still at Jeans farm in Florida.

[Arnaby]

Hello everybody, I am new to the board.
I heard about this discussion and thought I should reply. I have purchased Mynach Mystical and he will be arriving in Ontario in April 2009. I have THREE Thoroughbred/Welsh crosses by him. Their Dam is a 16.1hh thoroughbred mare called Bold Epic, all of them are under 14.2 and will stay that way. I loved them that much I begged Bluebird farm to sell me Mystical.
We have just started the 4yr filly and she is the one True Colours describes. If you visit my website you will see her under Bluebird Sofia. She is an incredible mover to say the least. I also have a 2 welsh/british riding pony stud colt whom will only make 12.1 and already has a date with two Tbred mares this spring. Both stallions are incredibly well bred from the best british bloodlines possible, feel free to check them out and their pedigree's at www.arnabyfarm.com and if you would like more photo's of Sofia and her siblings I can email them to you as well as a video of her going under saddle.

[sfstable]

Hello everybody, I am new to the board.
I heard about this discussion and thought I should reply. I have purchased Mynach Mystical and he will be arriving in Ontario in April 2009. I have THREE Thoroughbred/Welsh crosses by him. Their Dam is a 16.1hh thoroughbred mare called Bold Epic, all of them are under 14.2 and will stay that way. I loved them that much I begged Bluebird farm to sell me Mystical.
We have just started the 4yr filly and she is the one True Colours describes. If you visit my website you will see her under Bluebird Sofia. She is an incredible mover to say the least. I also have a 2 welsh/british riding pony stud colt whom will only make 12.1 and already has a date with two Tbred mares this spring. Both stallions are incredibly well bred from the best british bloodlines possible, feel free to check them out and their pedigree's at www.arnabyfarm.com and if you would like more photo's of Sofia and her siblings I can email them to you as well as a video of her going under saddle.

Welcome and lucky you :). He is very handsome !!!

I will have to put him on my list of potentials for my 2 year old Section B for 2010. :)

[imajacres]

Hes True Blue is still at Jeans farm in Florida.

Oh I see. well sounds like he will be coming north for a while at least. So do you know him? he looks very nice?
Ingrid

[Daventry]

I am 99% certain that 2009 is his first year standing at stud ...

Actually, he stood at public stud in Alberta since 2005.

I agree with everyone else that a 13 HH stallion is going to be too large for your mare. You're best to stick with something under that height.

I have to agree on *Pendock Larkspur. I had the pleasure of getting to see him in person at the age of 28 and he was absolutely breath taking! :) He's also usually on the USEF Leading Pony Hunter Sire List too.

[llsc]

*Pendock Larkspur is my *dream* Section A, but unfortunately, I don't believe his semen ships. (He's in his late 20's.)

He's back or on his way back from OK to his owner and hopefully she will collect the heck out of him and freeze it, so that he will be available for years to come. I'd certainly figure out a way to put a mare to him if I were ever going to breed again.

Trefaes Taran is a lovely stallion too. His website is www.anderinfarm.com.

[rideagoldenpony]

He's back or on his way back from OK to his owner and hopefully she will collect the heck out of him and freeze it, so that he will be available for years to come. I'd certainly figure out a way to put a mare to him if I were ever going to breed again.

I had a friend that tried to breed to Larkspur via shipped semen last spring with NO luck and a lot of vet bills. I absolutely adore the pony -- as I said, he's my dream Section A - but at this late date, I'd be surprised if there were any options left except for live cover.

[finelyfound]

I second *Trefaes Taran, I own a purebred daughter of his that is stunning. I have also met him in person and he is quite the presence and he's tiny. His offspring are huge movers with exquisite heads. He is owned and loved by Liz Fronheiser at Anderin Farm, her contact info is on her website www.anderinfarm.com Liz is wonderful to deal with and will bend over backwards for her clients. Taran is old but his semen ships great.

Another Sec. A stallion that I am impressed by (at least from looking at his website) is *Wharley Magic Flute. Maybe some west coast folks who have seen him in person could chime in about what he is like. http://www.eosponies.com

As for the Thistleworth ponies, they are some of the nicest Section A's around with the most amazing pedigrees, but Paula Jo does not stand any of them at public stud. She has one young stallion with very nice hunter movement, Clarwood Formally Attired. His sire stands at public stud and has produced some very nice crossbred ponies plus his owners are a pleasure to deal with. *Courtway Formal Attire http://www.clarwoodwelshponies.com/tux.html
plus as a bonus he's black with chrome.

I too would caution you against breeding to a Section B if you want to keep it a pony, but if you can't find an A that you find suitable I have had great success with Land's End Poseidon (great hunter movement with gorgeous heads and necks, plus super laid back personalities). *Telynau Royal Anthem is only 12.2 and he has sired many crossbreds that have done very well on the line and are now starting to show under saddle. He is a full brother to *Telynau Royal Charter (I have had one Charter foal and was very pleased with him). I don't think Anthem has a website, but there is a pic of him and some of his offspring here http://ponyhaven.com/welshshow.htm

Good Luck, there are some really wonderful ponies out there for you to choose from!

[Daventry]

Another Sec. A stallion that I am impressed by (at least from looking at his website) is *Wharley Magic Flute. Maybe some west coast folks who have seen him in person could chime in about what he is like. http://www.eosponies.com


I forgot about him! I`ve seen him in person and he`s super cute!! :yes:

[Summerwood]

You can also see clarwoodwelshponies.com for some nice sec A's, although they are just now redoing their website. I think Guy and Helen have a great eye for the breed. I have not seen them in person but they have done quite well with them. I am expecting a foal by their *Pennwood Gwr Bonheddig this spring, but he is a B and probably too big for your mare. I think you have lots of nice sec A options. I am jealous that I do not have a big mare to breed to one of them!!! Happy hunting!!

[poneez]

myhorsehannah - I second your feelings about Section A's, I find it difficult to find many A's that I would look to as a hunter sire. That being said, the other posters have indeed listed some impeccable ones, some of my favorites.

I was going to recommend the 12.1 1/2h Section B that we stand, Tantallon All American. He attracted some top quality full-sized mares in his first season at stud, and has foals coming this season from mares ranging up to 16h. He also has an impeccable pedigree for producing pony hunters.

imajacres - Many thanks for the mention! Your girl is an absolute stunner, indeed, what a special foal that will be!

In regards to He's True Blue, he should arrive up here in the currently frigid North before the end of February in order to prepare for the coming show season - he'll be campaigned in the Sport Pony qualifiers, as well as over fences. Hopefully we won't be having such a terrible cold snap when he arrives, what a welcome from Jean Mounger's beautiful Ponyville Farm in sunny Florida!

[showponies3]

I was reading these posts and feel that I need to mention that alot of the Sec A ponies that have been talked about in exception to Dan Patch and Wharley Magic Flute, are not desireable hunter movers. While they are all very nice ponies, they are considered more classical in their movement which means they tend to have more knee action. If you are attempting to breed for hunter prospects, they might not be the best choice. I have been showing A circut hunters for 20 years now (how time does fly!) and now my son is entering this crazy world too, I know that a good mover is a must if you want to be in the ribbons at all!

[VirginiaBred]

Dan Patch is something else and a "best kept secret" for hunter pony breeders.

Check him out, he is extremely fancy.

[rideagoldenpony]

Dan Patch is something else and a "best kept secret" for hunter pony breeders.

Check him out, he is extremely fancy.

He is a very nice boy and has a lovely temperament also. I took some of his show pictures last season, and his owner is a friend of mine. :)

[quicksilverponies]

I got to see him in person last year and liked his movement. He moves flatter than the typical Sec. A. I haven't seen any offspring yet or heard anything about what he is producing. Have you, Randee or Gretchen? I am looking forward to seeing what type of foals he will sire.

[VirginiaBred]

He is a very nice boy and has a lovely temperament also. I took some of his show pictures last season, and his owner is a friend of mine. :)

I figured you knew her. :cool:

[VirginiaBred]

I got to see him in person last year and liked his movement. He moves flatter than the typical Sec. A


You are so right about that movement, but look at his sire's movement to see where much of it comes from:


http://www.dougshook.com/bigriverwelshponies/tomcat.html

[myhorsehannah]

What about Pengywn?

[VirginiaBred]

What about Pengywn?


We had Pengwyn and sold him to Scott Canard (before he sold him). While Pengwyn has sired some very nice foals, he is also a typical Section A mover. Feel free to PM me for more information if you'd like. I have pictures of him also. :)

[showponies]

Thank you to everybody for all the nice words about Dan. His first crop was this last season(08) his filly , Snow Mt. Tea for Two and colt, Snow Mt.Dreams Come True will be out and about this year. Both are out of thbd mares. The filly is a Temperance Hill bred and the colt is from an irish thbd line.We also bred him to a poa mare, Dan gave them his smart head, neck and movement...We will see what they grow into....

Kristi
www.snowmountainfarm.com

[Windswept Stable]

myhorsehannah - I second your feelings about Section A's, I find it difficult to find many A's that I would look to as a hunter sire. That being said, the other posters have indeed listed some impeccable ones, some of my favorites.

I was going to recommend the 12.1 1/2h Section B that we stand, Tantallon All American. He attracted some top quality full-sized mares in his first season at stud, and has foals coming this season from mares ranging up to 16h. He also has an impeccable pedigree for producing pony hunters.

imajacres - Many thanks for the mention! Your girl is an absolute stunner, indeed, what a special foal that will be!

In regards to He's True Blue, he should arrive up here in the currently frigid North before the end of February in order to prepare for the coming show season - he'll be campaigned in the Sport Pony qualifiers, as well as over fences. Hopefully we won't be having such a terrible cold snap when he arrives, what a welcome from Jean Mounger's beautiful Ponyville Farm in sunny Florida!


What's the pedigree on He's True Blue? Is he related to Blue Rain. Whats on the other side --size and pedigree? I couldnt find it on the website. and all breed pedigree gave this?
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/hes+true+blue

[Picturesque]

We stand a blue roan, 12.1 hand, Welsh stallion (reg 1/2 Welsh) named Picturesque Formal Attire, by Farnley Magic Flute out of a Penguin mare. I find he crosses very well with bigger TB mares. He is a lovely hunter mover with a huge stride and great temperment. I would welcome you to check out his offspring on our website or come and visit the farm and watch some of his babies go. One of his yearlings that showed in the VPBA futurity (his first show) was 4th this year out of quite an impressive group. If you are looking to breed for performance, movement conformation and temperment I think he throws it all. Please feel free to call or email me for info.

[Daventry]

Dan Patch is something else and a "best kept secret" for hunter pony breeders.

Check him out, he is extremely fancy.

I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to breed to him. :yes: I would love to purchase a Thoroughbred mare in foal to him. I bet it would be a super little pony hunter!

[VirginiaBred]

I would love to purchase a Thoroughbred mare in foal to him. I bet it would be a super little pony hunter!

We may go into partnership............;)

[pwynnnorman]

Another vote for Land's End The Colonel's Fox. He doesn't throw a lot of size, he throws a lot of chrome, isn't a gray, AND if you get a chance, you can visit him and see a ton (I mean, like a dozen or more) of his "cookie-cutter" get. His prepotency is amazing.

[rideagoldenpony]

Thank you to everybody for all the nice words about Dan. His first crop was this last season(08) his filly , Snow Mt. Tea for Two and colt, Snow Mt.Dreams Come True will be out and about this year. Both are out of thbd mares. The filly is a Temperance Hill bred and the colt is from an irish thbd line.We also bred him to a poa mare, Dan gave them his smart head, neck and movement...We will see what they grow into....

Kristi
www.snowmountainfarm.com


Welcome to COTH, Kristi!!! :) :) :)

[Hunters Peak]

We purchased the proven Sec. A Loafer's Lodge Spring Ahead last year. He has been crossed very successfully with 16.0 hand Tb mares in the past. I plan to breed to two 16.0ish Tb mares to him this year. I have also bred a larger Tb mare to the beautiful Lands End Poseidon, and I believe she is going to stay a pony.

[jpm]

Hes True Blue is still at Jeans farm in Florida.

He will be shipping to Canada by Feb. due to new import shipping requirement by Canada it has taken more time, however all requirements are currently in place and he will be off and showing in no time. Ponyville and Baystar are very excited and look forward to a great 2009 show year for "He's True Blue".

He has a lovely jump and loves x-country too!! He was the 2007 Sport Pony of the Year with the AWB Society and went over 19 horses the day he was approved and was Approved Supreme, Oct. 2007. First time out he won 1st o/f in 1st Year Baby Green's at SEC. - The trainers called him the little "Superstar" as they watched his jumping round!


Ponyville also has a Section B Welsh Stallion who will be standing to limited Booking for 2009 due to age and Show Schedule. He is "Trotting For Gold" and was CFHJA Zone Best Young Pony for 2008 - he finished 5th in Zone 4 after only competing in only two shows, winning "Best Young Pony" each time out.

"Trotting For Gold" is a 1/2 Brother to Tantallon All-American and is out of the Famous "Findeln Siren" by the Outstanding "Otteridge Foxtrot". Look him up - Ponyvillefarm.com and look for him at the Rated Shows in 2009, he is Fancy!

Jean - Ponyville Farm

[poneez]

Windswept - He's True Blue is indeed a Blue Rain grandson, his actual pedigree can be found here:
http://www.baystarfarms.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=98

And his general information page, with links to offspring and photo gallery here:
http://www.baystarfarms.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87&Itemid=97

His 12.2h sire, Blue Ice by Blue Rain went on to have great success in the Smalls, Greens and Models. Blue Ice's dam was 12.2h Kingsmeade Tiny Bubbles by Clarwood's Playboy, now known as Chantilly Lace. She is Welsh/TB and has many wins in the Children's Hunter Pony Division, shown by Farrell Farms.

He's True Blue's dam is Dancing In The Moonlight is a Welsh pony, bred by Smallwood Farm in Virginia. They are indeed trying to track down her exact pedigree for Blue's owner Jean, as they feel she was by one of their own stallions. She herself showed in the short stirrup, and she has been a wonderful producer of gorgeous, model-winning hunter ponies.

Photos and further details of many of Blue's relations can be found on his pedigree page. Why the All Breeds Pedigree is so flawed, who knows!

He's True Blue himself is Approved Supreme Sport Pony Stallion with the AWS, and was their Pony of the Year in 2007. He is also registered with the FPBA. We're thrilled to be hosting this exceptional fellow over the next couple of seasons, and can't wait to campaign him in earnest North of the border!

[poneez]

jpm - It seems we were posting about the beautiful fellow at the same time!

Can't wait to see your gorgeous Foxtrot son Trotting For Gold out continuing his success on the ring in the coming season - what an exquisite wee gent!

[VirginiaBred]

He's True Blue's dam is Dancing In The Moonlight is a Welsh pony, bred by Smallwood Farm in Virginia. They are indeed trying to track down her exact pedigree for Blue's owner Jean, as they feel she was by one of their own stallions. She herself showed in the short stirrup, and she has been a wonderful producer of gorgeous, model-winning hunter ponies.



Smallwood Farm bred his dam? Their prefix is always attached when they do. They stood for years Smallwood Paris, but he is a crossbred (and a wonderful one at that!), and that would make her a crossbred. Humm, I wonder what pure welsh stallion Phyllis stood? None that I know of.

[Windswept Stable]

Windswept - He's True Blue is indeed a Blue Rain grandson, his actual pedigree can be found here:
http://www.baystarfarms.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=98

And his general information page, with links to offspring and photo gallery here:
http://www.baystarfarms.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87&Itemid=97

His 12.2h sire, Blue Ice by Blue Rain went on to have great success in the Smalls, Greens and Models. Blue Ice's dam was 12.2h Kingsmeade Tiny Bubbles by Clarwood's Playboy, now known as Chantilly Lace. She is Welsh/TB and has many wins in the Children's Hunter Pony Division, shown by Farrell Farms.

He's True Blue's dam is Dancing In The Moonlight is a Welsh pony, bred by Smallwood Farm in Virginia. They are indeed trying to track down her exact pedigree for Blue's owner Jean, as they feel she was by one of their own stallions. She herself showed in the short stirrup, and she has been a wonderful producer of gorgeous, model-winning hunter ponies.

Photos and further details of many of Blue's relations can be found on his pedigree page. Why the All Breeds Pedigree is so flawed, who knows!

He's True Blue himself is Approved Supreme Sport Pony Stallion with the AWS, and was their Pony of the Year in 2007. He is also registered with the FPBA. We're thrilled to be hosting this exceptional fellow over the next couple of seasons, and can't wait to campaign him in earnest North of the border!

So --he is standing at stud without a pedigree on both sides? Is that what you are saying? How will he be able to show in the welsh shows without papers?

[brandfarm]

We just booked two ISR mares out of Florida to our Welsh Section "A" stallion. Shell Crest Dusty Gold, stands 11'1, Black Silver Dapple and those owners are so looking forward to a couple of sport pony foals in 2010.
You could have a look at him too.
thebrandfarm.ca

[poneez]

He's True Blue will not be showing in the Welsh classes, of course. Rather, he will be showing in the NASPR Qualifying series. Does his page mention Welsh classes? I must check, if so, I'm afraid it's likely to be a bit of an error on the part of the web designer, likely confused with Tantallon All American's show schedule in the coming season.

It is for that reason as well that the yearling of his that we have, out of Findeln Siren will be showing in the Half-Welsh classes, as well as the Sport Pony classes this season.

**Ah, I've checked, while it doesn't state directly that He's True Blue will be campaigning in the Welsh classes, it could be a bit confusing to some as it mentions the plans of the other ponies that will be out campaigning with him this season. Many thanks for drawing my attention to it Windswept!

[Windswept Stable]

Sorry, I must have been confused as there were so many nice boys to look at there. And indeed, I think True Blue is just lovely for sure.

poneez--this statement is not coming to you as I realize you have no control over what qualifies for approval and what doesnt; BUT as a breeder myself -- I am still more confused that a pony stallion can be WB approved and Sport Pony approved without a known pedigree.

[Summerwood]

I was reading these posts and feel that I need to mention that alot of the Sec A ponies that have been talked about in exception to Dan Patch and Wharley Magic Flute, are not desireable hunter movers. While they are all very nice ponies, they are considered more classical in their movement which means they tend to have more knee action. If you are attempting to breed for hunter prospects, they might not be the best choice. I have been showing A circut hunters for 20 years now (how time does fly!) and now my son is entering this crazy world too, I know that a good mover is a must if you want to be in the ribbons at all!

I did not know that the OP was looking specifically for pony hunters. I guess I assumed that she was looking for a sport pony stallion. I am not sure if Clarwood's stallions are hunter movers, I would suspect that they may not be. Certaintly there are many nice choices either way, but if you are looking for a hunter sire in particular, then you really need to do your homework and make sure that they not only move appropriately but that they also will throw it. I have seen Sandy Holbrook's Blue Who in person and he is a very cute little guy with a huge stride. If you are in VA, then you must have a wealth of pony stallions right at your fingertips (yes, I am jealous). You may want to take a trip to Farnley and see their stallions. Someone posted a video of Farnley Electra by Farnley Magic Flute on the board not too long ago, I was very impressed by her attitude. I am not sure how big he is.

As far as registration, you can also register your resulting foal via American Sport Pony Registry.

[VirginiaBred]

I did not know that the OP was looking specifically for pony hunters.



Yes. First page, post 13. Pony Hunter foal.

[Summerwood]

Yes. First page, post 13. Pony Hunter foal.

Thank you, I must have missed that one :D!

[VirginiaBred]

poneez--this statement is not coming to you as I realize you have no control over what qualifies for approval and what doesnt; BUT as a breeder myself -- I am still more confused that a pony stallion can be WB approved and Sport Pony approved without a known pedigree.


From the American Sportpony Registry - Breed Standard

What is a NorthAmerican Sportpony?

A NorthAmerican Sportpony is a pony in the general range of 13.2-14.2 h that looks and moves like a small horse, capable of competing in the Olympic disciplines of Jumping, Dressage, and Eventing, as well as in Driving. It is not your traditional Thellwell type of pony, but rather is much more athletic and horse-like in appearance and ability.

The term "NorthAmerican Sportpony" is considered a type, not a particular breed of pony (with the exception of ponies of Draft blood being excluded) and therefore we find sportponies made up of everything from Welsh to New Forest to Thoroughbred bloodlines.

Movement is paramount to the quality NorthAmerican Sportpony, and that movement should have great suspension, articulation, impulsion and elasticity. The type does not strive for the traditional "daisy-cutter", flat-kneed movement that is so popular in the hunter ring today, but it is not excluded as a factor within the NorthAmerican Sportpony Registry. Therefore, the "hunter type" of pony, especially one which excels in jumping and has the conformation and "look" the type strives for, can be considered a NorthAmerican Sportpony]All ponies accepted into the Registry must undergo an inspection and be DNA-typed. It is in this way that pedigrees can be documented from this point forward, even with breeding stock that is currently of unknown parentage. Stallions accepted into the Registry undergo additional performance and progeny requirements (detailed on our Inspection and Grading (http://www.americansportpony.com/PagesASPR/InspGradingASPR.htm) page).


To me that means a "Sport" anything is a mixed bag of tricks, which means nothing. A fancy way of saying crossbred (although in the majority of cases a crossbred can be documented).

[Windswept Stable]

[
To me that means a "Sport" anything is a mixed bag of tricks, which means nothing. A fancy way of saying crossbred (although in the majority of cases a crossbred can be documented).[/QUOTE]


Ok-- agreed in part. However, I have a fine Crossbred stallion myself and his pedigree is just fine, so I would take offense to him being referred to as a fancy way of saying nothing. There are plenty of crossbred stallions that are quite nice. Which I do think you would agree to as you yourself breed crossbred ponies. (darn nice ones at that)

Crossbred is fine, but to keep a stallion without a pedigree is another bag of tricks.

I can't imagine any registry would approve something without a pedigree. If that indeeed is the case,then I would have to agree with VaBred in that the sport pony registry does mean nothing.

[VirginiaBred]

[ To me that means a "Sport" anything is a mixed bag of tricks, which means nothing. A fancy way of saying crossbred (although in the majority of cases a crossbred can be documented).


Ok-- agreed in part. However, I have a fine Crossbred stallion myself and his pedigree is just fine, so I would take offense to him being referred to as a fancy way of saying nothing. There are plenty of crossbred stallions that are quite nice. Which I do think you would agree to as you yourself breed crossbred ponies. (darn nice ones at that)

Crossbred is fine, but to keep a stallion without a pedigree is another bag of tricks.

I can't imagine any registry would approve something without a pedigree. If that indeeed is the case,then I would have to agree with VaBred in that the sport pony registry does mean nothing.[/quote]


My exact quote: To me that means a "Sport" anything is a mixed bag of tricks, which means nothing. A fancy way of saying crossbred (although in the majority of cases a crossbred can be documented).

It's the flavor of the week right now. Every Tom, Dick & Harry (and Jane) are calling their pony "Sport" this or "Sport" that. It's ridiculous. Or, maybe not! Just a way to call something by another name, but it gives no creedence to a pedigree at all.

[jpm]

I am the owner as well as the breeder of He's True Blue, I also bred and owned Blue Ice, his Sire and later sold him to Jennifer Bieling in Wellington, Fl. He went on to be an outstanding performance pony. I take offense to all of you people who are talking about x-bred Stallions and Pedigree. Although it is important it isn't absolute. I have seen many Section B Stallions as well as 1/2 Welsh Stallions that should be geldings, etc. and their offspring's aren't correct. Maybe that is why they never have come to the show ring. It is easy to criticize other people's Stallions while others never leave the farm. If you need proof that He's True Blue is an Approved AWB Society Stallion please visit their web site at www.americanwarmblood.org click on approved for breeding. I might add he is in the 5 star program and already has 2 stars. One for being approved Supreme and one for being awarded the 2007 Sport Pony of the Year Award.


Angie Ingenito who owned Findeln Siren bred her to He's True Blue in 2006 and choose him after looking at many Section B Stallions as well as 1/2 bred Welsh Pony Stallions standing in both Vir and Fl. At the time Findeln Siren had a Ottridge Foxtrot colt by her side and her choice was to breed to Blue. Tantallon Blue Heaven, Siren's 2008 colt by He's True Blue was later purchased by Baystar Farms and everyone who has looked at him stands him right up there with the other offspring Findeln has had, including Scott Canard. I am extremely proud of He's True Blue and although his Dam's pedigree isn't shown I will stand him next to all other pony stallions as his conformation, movement and temperament is all in place and correct.

By the way Findeln's colt that was by her side when I bred her to He's True Blue is the Foxy colt I bought from Angie, now know as "Trotting For Gold". It wasn't because of bloodlines that made me interested in him, it was because he is correct in conformation and his movement is exceptional. Bloodlines don't always breed correctness, I look for correctness first, then bloodline next.

I have a coming 4 year old that is bred very well and isn't from my bloodlines as I bought the mare already in foal, however he has a front leg that turns out at the knee and I don't believe this is desirable, now do I blame the bloodlines? Why don't you women tell me! I will take conformation every time as I am breeding performance ponies, not bloodlines. You can't ride the papers and if I am correct "Blue Rain" is a Crossbred Pony Stallion and how many times has he been USEF Pony Hunter Stallion of the Year?

Jean - Ponyville Farm

[jpm]

[
To me that means a "Sport" anything is a mixed bag of tricks, which means nothing. A fancy way of saying crossbred (although in the majority of cases a crossbred can be documented).


Ok-- agreed in part. However, I have a fine Crossbred stallion myself and his pedigree is just fine, so I would take offense to him being referred to as a fancy way of saying nothing. There are plenty of crossbred stallions that are quite nice. Which I do think you would agree to as you yourself breed crossbred ponies. (darn nice ones at that)

Crossbred is fine, but to keep a stallion without a pedigree is another bag of tricks.

I can't imagine any registry would approve something without a pedigree. If that indeeed is the case,then I would have to agree with VaBred in that the sport pony registry does mean nothing.[/QUOTE]


Windswept Farm it is my understanding that your supposedly cross bred pony is really a horse. Does he have his permanent pony card? What is his true measurement? Although you know his pedigree perhaps you should advertise him as a crossbred horse not pony.

jean - ponyvillefarm

[Windswept Stable]

Ok-- agreed in part. However, I have a fine Crossbred stallion myself and his pedigree is just fine, so I would take offense to him being referred to as a fancy way of saying nothing. There are plenty of crossbred stallions that are quite nice. Which I do think you would agree to as you yourself breed crossbred ponies. (darn nice ones at that)

Crossbred is fine, but to keep a stallion without a pedigree is another bag of tricks.

I can't imagine any registry would approve something without a pedigree. If that indeeed is the case,then I would have to agree with VaBred in that the sport pony registry does mean nothing.


Windswept Farm it is my understanding that your supposedly cross bred pony is really a horse. Does he have his permanent pony card? What is his true measurement? Although you know his pedigree perhaps you should advertise him as a crossbred horse not pony.

jean - ponyvillefarm[/QUOTE]


So--you want to get personal and take low blows? This is a discussion board and when stallions get discussed--questions get asked.. thats the way it is here. When you come on here and brag brag brag about how great and wonderful your boy is and when someone asks the simple question of whats the pedigree and you get nasty about it--then you need to ask yourself why you are so defensive? I would certainly think and HOPE that each person considering breeding to your boy would ask the same question. Is that how you treat potential customers?

And if you can read, you will for certain see that all my ads and my website CLEARLY state a + sign after the pony mark...so my friend you are preaching to the choir. No, my boy does NOT have a pony card---but my friend he does not need it to go to the breeding shed- a place where he goes quite often, nor to the show ring. He sired a Devon breeding champion by the time he was 6 years old and has a resume of nice get longer than your arm. He has indeed left the farm and has been in the show ring more than once - always a gentleman. His oldest babies are heading in the direction of the show ring and most all have wonderful sweet dispositions just as he does. His 4 yr old was top selling pony at Professional Auction and was purchased by a 6 yr old child --and the family has been more than happy.

Anyway, I dont even know who you are and really dont know why you would take to attacking my stallion when he is not at reference here---but to each his own.

I revised this as I am not interested in fighting here. I was too harsh. Forgive me, my mother just died 2 weeks ago after spending the past 5 months in Alzhimer Hell..and taking my sister and me thru that bit of hell with her. And to add insult to injury, I just found out today my best broodmare lost her pregnancy... so yes, I am grumpy.

[jpm]

Windswept Farm it is my understanding that your supposedly cross bred pony is really a horse. Does he have his permanent pony card? What is his true measurement? Although you know his pedigree perhaps you should advertise him as a crossbred horse not pony.

jean - ponyvillefarm


So--you want to get personal and take low blows? If thats the way you want it--give me a day to pick your boy apart . Actually though, I really have better things to do because if anyone is dumb enough to breed to a stallion without a pedigree, then they can have at it. This is a discussion board and when stallions get discussed--questions get asked.. thats the way it is here. When you come on here and brag brag brag about how great and wonderful your boy is and when someone asks the simple question of whats the pedigree and you get nasty about it--then you need to get over yourself. I would certainly think and HOPE that each person considering breeding to your boy would ask the same question. Is that how you treat potential customers?

And if you can read, you will for certain see that all my ads and my website CLEARLY state a + sign after the pony mark...so my friend you are preaching to the choir. No, my boy does NOT have a pony card---but my friend he does not need it to go to the breeding shed- a place where he goes quite often, nor to the show ring. He sired a Devon breeding champion by the time he was 6 years old and has a resume of nice get longer than your arm. He has indeed left the farm and has been in the show ring more than once - always a gentleman. His oldest babies are heading in the direction of the show ring and most all have wonderful sweet dispositions just as he does. His 4 yr old was top selling pony at Professional Auction and was purchased by a 6 yr old child --and the family has been more than happy.
Has your boy sired anything of note? Just because he can jump a jump does not make him stud quality. All you seem to go on about is Blue Rain.
Honey your boy is NOT Blue Rain. Blue Rain is his Grand Sire on one side.
Heaven knows who is on the other. So get over that--no one wants to hear it anymore. And no one wants to see on your website a 200 notation list of the champions Blue Rain has sired. We want to see it on Blue Rain's webpage. Not yours as it is irrelevant. And for that matter, I am very familiar with Blue Rains as I have been in the barn with him on numerous occasions and we have had a great number of direct Blue Rain get in our barn and I get protective of him and quite annoyed at people that PIMP their animals because BLue Rain was SOMEWHERE in the distant past. And your boys sire--Blue Ice--from what I understand who you tout as having an incredible show record, went to a HANDFUL of shows in your area before developing a terrible heaves problem and was given away.

And for that matter, your new youngster which you brag about being Best Young Pony both times out this year.. I checked the show records on that as well. There were THREE competitors. TOTAL ... Its not too hard to be Best Young Pony out of three --I mean they HAD to give it to someone.

Anyway, I dont even know who you are and really dont know why you would take to attacking my stallion when he is not even at reference here---but to each his own.[/QUOTE]




I didn't cut your stallion down at all, you were the one cutting my stallion down, by saying breeding a pony without a full pedigree is a Bag of Tricks. You should research the WB pedigree lines and I believe you will fine that not all Stallions have a complete pedigree. I have no problems in anyone asking any questions regarding my stallions and I believe I responded both honestly and professionally. I merely asked you a question back. Does your Sport Pony have a pony card and I had been told he is not a pony, seems to me I was inquiring just as you. You are the one who is unprofessional and nasty. As far as Trotting For Gold, he was a yearling at the time of his winnings and went over the leading Zone Ponies both times out. Perhaps you will just have to read about him next year and see his winnings. You probably have a lovely Stallion and I am sure he produces nice ponies. I never implied or stated otherwise.

Your the one hot under the collar, not me. I know what I have and I don't need to be on the gossip board defending my Stallions. Randee Beckman e-mailed me and said I might want to go on the COTH as people were inquiring about He's True Blue. If you want to talk pedigree "Trotting For Gold" has outstanding Pedigree, there are not to many ponies with as exceptional pedigree and his Dam has produce many "A" Pony Hunter Champions, "Pony Dot Com", "You've Got Mail", "Benlea Easter Lily", "Tantallon All - American" and the list goes on and on, his Sire "Ottridge Foxtrot" has offspring that have won both at Devon and The Virginia Futurity as well as Upperville. I'm not worried about "Trotting For Gold's" and what he will do as a performance Stallion or producer, I know he will produce.

You women have a lovely day and remember if you are going to question and make snotty remarks you might get questioned back. It is all in how you handle the questions and the answers.

I am proud of my Stallions as I am sure you are proud of yours.

With Kinds Regards,
Jean - Ponyvillefarm

[Windswept Stable]

All the best to you JPM. Hope you have a wonderful breeding season.

[Sugarbrook]

Just one response from me. You can not have a " permanent pony card" unless you are eligible to show in the USEF rated shows. So, obviously, no stallion will have a card with the pony hunter division of USEF (welsh shows not included in my post). Does this make sense?

[VirginiaBred]

Okay, I think I need to clarify here.

I'm the one that said: My exact quote: To me that means a "Sport" anything is a mixed bag of tricks, which means nothing. A fancy way of saying crossbred(although in the majority of cases a crossbred can be documented).

I said that. Not Windswept. Not anyone else. I do feel that right now, lots and lots of folks are calling their pony a "Sport" whatever. It's the "what's in style" term at the present. We don't use (my family) it and the breeders I know and have dealt with don't use it because we breed hunter ponies. Hunter ponies are an established category and not a catch-all, which is what the term "Sport" is associated with. I posted the "Breed Standard" directly from the NorthAmerican Sport Pony Registry which stated that the pedigree can be unknown. I'm a purest and would not breed to something unknown for numerous reasons.

I also went on to say that in the majority of cases a crossbred can be documented.

I'm glad this has generated the pedigree discussion because as breeders, it's vital to showcase your mare or stallion's pedigree for the discriminating breeder to base decisions upon.

[jpm]

Windswept:

I didn't mean for this to get into a battle, however I feel I must claify something to the COTH and defend my Stallion and his Sire once again as you have printed incorrect facts.

1. Blue Ice when he retired had 1,168 USEF Green Pony Hunter - Small points, his first show was in Wellington 2006 and he was Res. Ch. Small Pony Hunter and was the highest scoring pony for the w/e, he also went back in and won the Models as well in the Division. So not only was he a performance pony his conformation was correct. He went on to break his Green's in Kentucky with Mindy Darts in the irons and showed the rest of the Winter and Spring in Kentucky 2006. He was well on his way to collecting enough pts. to qualify for Devon when he became ill. He never went to a non rated USEF Show in his career. Perhaps the person you are receiving your facts from should get her facts straight. Icy was an awesome pony.

2. Icy didn't have the heaves he had a UR Problem and I received an e-mail from Erika who now owns him and he is completely well and her 10 yr old is riding him. She is sending me pics ASAP. You don't get well from the Heaves either, so once again you got your facts incorrect.

3. I have traced my Sire's Dam back to Phylis Jones w/Smallwood Farms in Virginia. The pony's name when I bought her was "Dixie" and I bought her from Elizabeth Plummer in Wellington, she purchased her from Ella Shevella and Ella purchased her from Smallwood Farms. Phylis told me she thought the pony might be related to Smallwood Paris as most of her ponies were retained as broodmares. I know the pony had offspring in the Virginia area and Dixie also showed, however I don't know what her show name was. Maybe some of you kind women remember the pony for the Show Ring and could help me find her true pedigree.

Please if any of you Virginia woman want to know the truth just ask me as I am very honest and forthright. It is apparent you all know my e-mail address and I think it is very important that if we are printing information on the COTH it be research and factual. Things you said about my ponies were cruel and inappropriate and I would have never done this to you.

I am truly sorry about your Mother, however other people may be going through hard times as well therefore it is important to be kind when we ask question or make comments.

I think we should act with comradery and help one another as I don't need the income as I am financially secure and have no problems referring clients to other people - even breeding's. Enjoying my horses/ponies is my REFUGE, not my income! I enjoy the Public Relations so if you want to find out who I am and what I am about perhaps you should ask me and stop listening to Sandy Holbrook and let's all of us show Sportsman Like Behavior.

Jean - Ponyville Farm

[Windswept Stable]

All the best to you Jean. I edited my post after rethinking things. I am professional enough to say I am sorry.

It's just shameful that you need to drag another well-respected breeder - into this. She has nothing to do with this either. It's sad that you feel the need to continue on with something that is over and to continue to drag breeders and sires into this that have no relevance whatsover to the OP. I will pray for you. And I am done. I have better things to do today. I am heading out to play in the snow with my ponies!

[Whitehedge Farm]

*Telynau Falcon is 11.2

I have bred mares up to 16.1 to him and its looks like they will all stay pony sized.
His oldest offspring I have is a 5 yr old mare, and she is a fantastic jumper!! I am very excited about her.

He himself is a doll, and my 4 1/2 yr old daughter rides him on her own now in the big arena, w,t,c and crossrails. :) So definatly a children's pony!

[Sugarbrook]

I stand corrected!!! Just checked about the card for the pony stallion. In fact you can get a card saying he is a pony, but it cannot be shown in the pony division at a USEF show. It could be shown in a class with an adult. Now I know!! But wonder why you would bother if its just a breeding stallion.

[imajacres]

I stand corrected!!! Just checked about the card for the pony stallion. In fact you can get a card saying he is a pony, but it cannot be shown in the pony division at a USEF show. It could be shown in a class with an adult. Now I know!! But wonder why you would bother if its just a breeding stallion.

"JUST A BREEDING STALLION?"
wow, that is about as opposite an opinion as mine as there can be!
I think it is great that the stallion actually might go out there and do something- if he were a horse he would need to in about 99% of cases, to generate any interest.

Coming from the horse world, I find it a shame that very rarely are the pony stallions riding, showing, or even broke. I understand with the USEF pony rule, it is hard to show them, but if they can do something in some capacity, I for sure take notice. (FWIW)

[Sugarbrook]

YIKES. That didnt come out right. I didnt mean JUST a breeding stallion at all. I guess what I meant was since he couldnt be shown in the pony hunter classes. My Blue Who is just 11.2 and not broke to ride at all (no one small enough to do it). "Traveller" is broke to ride and if he was a horse I would show him.

[jpm]

You are so correct about the pony stallions not coming out enough in the shows. I had an adult that was 5'9" riding my 13.1 hand pony stallion, "He's True Blue" and showing him. Because he is big boned and has a big step she didn't look to big on him and jumped around with ease. He showed in the 1st year baby greens at the local shows and competed nicely against the horses and could very easily go into the USEF low hunter division, or hopefully hunter division, he started out in the Dressage Ring and he received marks of 7 & 8's for gaits and of course there is always X-Country. I ride him here on the farm and hope to continue his Dressage Show Career once he returns from Canada in 2011. I must say he has probably been one of the most balance Equines I've ever been on.

When he arrives at Baystar Farms in Canada in February they will campaign him U/S and I look forward to his 2009 Show Year being a Great one.

My good friend Dorothy Cayce also rides her Stallion Triple Point and her mother drives him.

It would be nice to see more ponies out in the Show Ring as there are many avenues.

Jean - www.ponyvillefarm.com

[Daventry]

"JUST A BREEDING STALLION?"
wow, that is about as opposite an opinion as mine as there can be!
I think it is great that the stallion actually might go out there and do something- if he were a horse he would need to in about 99% of cases, to generate any interest.

Holy, please take a deep breath. :eek: I know exactly what Sugarbrook was trying to say - that, seeing as a pony stallion cannot show in the rated Pony Hunter divisions because of the junior rule, there really is no sense in paying for a permanent USEF measurement card. Each to their own though!

Sugarbrook has two OUTSTANDING pony hunter stallions and knows all too well that "just a breeding stallion" would be an insulting phrase and is something that would never come out of her mouth. She's actually one of the nicest and most polite posters on this Bulletin Board. :yes:

[quicksilverponies]

Purebred Welsh and papered half Welsh stallions can be shown in many classes at Welsh shows and many of them are. Some stallion owners don't want to risk an injury to a stallion by jumping them in unrated USEF classes just to prove that they can. It would be great if USEF would add a class for pony stallions ridden by adult riders, but so far there is not one. Most pony stallions end up proving themselves by the accomplishments of their get or even siblings, unfortunately. I have a lot of youngsters to start every year, and while my stallions are broke to ride, I am more interested in getting the babies out to show (the fillies and geldings that can actually compete in rated classes) than I am in getting my stallions out to show in unrated classes. Just my opinion of course, and I am speaking of hunter pony stallions - not dressage.

[poneez]

We're looking forward to campaigning He's True Blue over fences throughout 2009 as well - that being said, we're trying to decide which classes are available to us that will give us the best opportunity to showcase that lovely jump! It's tough, Santa didn't leave those "Pony Stallions ridden by Adult Riders" classes under my tree, either! Sigh... What an unfortunate gap in the show program!

[imajacres]

YIKES. That didnt come out right. I didnt mean JUST a breeding stallion at all. I guess what I meant was since he couldnt be shown in the pony hunter classes. My Blue Who is just 11.2 and not broke to ride at all (no one small enough to do it). "Traveller" is broke to ride and if he was a horse I would show him.


That makes more sense now, sorry, I really couldnt think what you meant:-)
it would be fun to see Traveller ride, he is such a handsome boy.

[Sugarbrook]

Just a little example of what Traveller can sire. A brag, but a little one.

[unbridledoaks]

Just a little example of what Traveller can sire. A brag, but a little one.

Sugarbrook - What a LOVELY pony!!!

[Daventry]

Just a little example of what Traveller can sire. A brag, but a little one.

Nice Sandy! Which pony is that? I'd like to know more about the dam please. :yes:

[VirginiaBred]

Just a little example of what Traveller can sire. A brag, but a little one.

Say about 12.2? :cool:

[showponies]

I do ride and show Dan Patch, over fences and undersaddle. This year he will be at a few USEF shows. Because he hasn't shown USEF yet, he can show in the "Baby Green" division( 2ft in our area) .

Kristi
www.snowmountainfarm.com

[Sugarbrook]

Thats cool. I hope we get some updates as he shows. Not many hunter ponies venture into the 'A' show stuff. This should be good for all of us. Congrats on your plan!!!!

[Summerwood]

Sandy, I hope my little guy by Traveller jumps like that one in a 13.1 1/2 size body!!!:D

[myhorsehannah]

You can also see clarwoodwelshponies.com for some nice sec A's, although they are just now redoing their website. I think Guy and Helen have a great eye for the breed. I have not seen them in person but they have done quite well with them. I am expecting a foal by their *Pennwood Gwr Bonheddig this spring, but he is a B and probably too big for your mare. I think you have lots of nice sec A options. I am jealous that I do not have a big mare to breed to one of them!!! Happy hunting!!

Has anyone seen get of Clarwoods Joyride from larger mares?

[VirginiaBred]

This looks to be the perfect Small (Welsh x BRP) for a mare that needs some refining:


Scaramouche, a Welsh x BRP Cross that moves well and is lovely. Be sure to watch the numerous videos on him. Perfect at 12 hands!


http://winterheavenfarm.com/WHFsales/jeremy/jeremy.html


**edited because I called him a section A...........NOT!

[Summerwood]

I did a google search and could only find sec A offspring. If you go to www.rosmel.com you can see many of them. They owned him for awhile before selling him back to Clarwood. Guy and Helen are nice people. Perhaps you could call Helen for some more info. I have had some difficulty with e-mail communication with them but they seem to be easy to get on the phone. I think they travel to shows a lot.

[Windswept Stable]

This looks to be the perfect Section A for a mare that needs some refining:


Scaramouche, a Welsh x BRP Cross that moves well and is lovely. Be sure to watch the numerous videos on him. Perfect at 12 hands!


http://winterheavenfarm.com/WHFsales/jeremy/jeremy.html

I love him, but good luck getting in touch with anyone that will follow up. I think someone on this BB tried to help me get in touch with an owner. Maybe they will speak up again.
I tried several times last season and kept getting dead ends so I gave up.
He is closely related to Super Trooper. Super Trooper is by Lechlade Quince. I love Jeremy!

[VirginiaBred]

I love him, but good luck getting in touch with anyone that will follow up. I think someone on this BB tried to help me get in touch with an owner. Maybe they will speak up again.
I tried several times last season and kept getting dead ends so I gave up.
He is closely related to Super Trooper. Super Trooper is by Lechlade Quince. I love Jeremy!


I've invited them to join us on this thread for discussion of Jeremy! :)

[Windswept Stable]

I've invited them to join us on this thread for discussion of Jeremy! :)

Wonderful. I hope we can find out how to make contact with them. He is sure eye candy!!! I had a mare all picked out for him last year!!

[VirginiaBred]

Wonderful. I hope we can find out how to make contact with them. He is sure eye candy!!! I had a mare all picked out for him last year!!


Well, let's hope Michael comes on and posts here!

Jeremy looks to be exactly right for the larger (15.2 1/2 and over) mare, and especially if they are heavier or a TB cross of some kind. :yes:

[VirginiaBred]

Per Michael, I have permission to post this here:

Hi Randee,

Thank you so much for your kind words about Jeremy. I have been working on a few projects down in the islands and have not been easily accessible. I currently have Jeremy standing with Prue Richardson in Canada. I think he is a perfect cross for the type of mares you have been discussing in your forum.


I would like to forward you the contact information of Prue Richardson:


Her telephone number is (PM me if you'd like this)



My contact numbers are:


(left these out also)


Many thanks,
Michael Savage

[Windswept Stable]

Michael is not the name of the person that I talked to about him last year..it was a lady. But indeed my memory is failing me as to what her name is. Someone on this board referred me to her though. I was told he was going to be sent to Canada.

[Windswept Stable]

Indeed..that is where he is.
I am disappointed that he left United States.

[VirginiaBred]

Indeed..that is where he is.
I am disappointed that he left United States.

I'm sure Pru will ship semen. :)

[quicksilverponies]

Randee - Scaramouche is a BRP - not a Sec. A. As such he most likely has some larger horse blood in his pedigree. I would be hesistant in crossing him with something as large as 16hh - even though he is indeed very lovely.

[VirginiaBred]

Randee - Scaramouche is a BRP - not a Sec. A. As such he most likely has some larger horse blood in his pedigree. I would be hesistant in crossing him with something as large as 16hh - even though he is indeed very lovely.


He's actually a crossbred! :)

Welsh x BRP

[quicksilverponies]

Yes I know. But you mentioned that he was a Sec. A which he is not. And Welsh can be crossed with a BRP and get BRP papers - Welsh is one of the accepted crosses. And even more important, if you look at his pedigree there are very many ponies of 13, 14 and even 15hh back in there, which is why I wouldnt cross him with a 16hh mare. He would be a lovely cross for a smaller mare or a purebred Welsh I think.

[quicksilverponies]

Actually, if you check his pedigree out on www.allbreedpedigree.com, he is BRP on top and bottom. It is true that there are several purebred Welsh on his pedigree as well and that is because they are an accepted cross in the BRP registry. Basically, all BRPs are crossbred ponies and most, if not all, have some larger horse genes in the pedigree.

[unbridledoaks]

Has anyone seen get of Clarwoods Joyride from larger mares?

I have seen his get in person, and they are nice. Though, I have yet to see anything crossed with TB. I have seen some of Joyride's get crossed with the larger mares, and they are nice.

[myhorsehannah]

I have seen his get in person, and they are nice. Though, I have yet to see anything crossed with TB. I have seen some of Joyride's get crossed with the larger mares, and they are nice.

Micheal sent me some photos of a Tb cross from Jeremy. Very nice and you can really see his sire in him. Jeremy looks like one of a kind to me and the perfect pony for breeding large pony hunters from horse mares. But, he has not been promoted much and has only a few offspring.

[VirginiaBred]

Yes I know. But you mentioned that he was a Sec. A which he is not. And Welsh can be crossed with a BRP and get BRP papers - Welsh is one of the accepted crosses. And even more important, if you look at his pedigree there are very many ponies of 13, 14 and even 15hh back in there, which is why I wouldnt cross him with a 16hh mare. He would be a lovely cross for a smaller mare or a purebred Welsh I think.


Melinda, I corrected that yesterday, but thank you. He is listed on the owner's site as a crossbred, which I posted my information from.

He's very small and would cross with a larger mare with no concerns.

[VirginiaBred]

He is closely related to Super Trooper. Super Trooper is by Lechlade Quince. I love Jeremy!


Trooper 12.2.

[Sugarbrook]

I LOVE Super Trooper!!!!

[VirginiaBred]

I LOVE Super Trooper!!!!

Yes ma'am! You and Patti & are completely agree on that one! :yes:

Patti is saying that Scarmouche has similar bloodlines (I checked and Troopers sire is Scarmouche's grandsire).

Are either of you familiar with the dam or sire?

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/scaramouche10


Maybe Gretchen will know (rideagoldenpony)?

[rideagoldenpony]

The only one on the dam's side I know enough to comment on, would be Keston Royal Occasion. He figures prominently into the pedigrees of many of my Section B's, and was VERY influential on the Section B as a whole, and was exported to Australia, where he also left a big mark. Otherwise all the B stuff on there I don't recognize until way further back in the pedigree.

The year I went over to Wales and toured farms and went to the Fayre Oaks Sale, Michael was also there. He purchased a fabulous Section B mare called *Skellorn Apache Rose, a top small and a full sister to my *Skellorn Coral Rose (14h) that I brought over later. You might still find her on his site -- she was called Bunny Manero and word was that she sold for a very large price. She was absolutely stunning.

[VirginiaBred]

I LOVE Super Trooper!!!!


Per Ponybreeder, "He is by Beckside Little Toff who is a full brother to Super Trooper. That mare has produced some gorgeous offspring. Little Toff is a very popular stallion in England right now."

[VirginiaBred]

He purchased a fabulous Section B mare called *Skellorn Apache Rose, a top small and a full sister to my *Skellorn Coral Rose (14h) that I brought over later.


That's the one I love!! :yes:

[Windswept Stable]

Yes ma'am! You and Patti & are completely agree on that one! :yes:

Patti is saying that Scarmouche has similar bloodlines (I checked and Troopers sire is Scarmouche's grandsire).

Are either of you familiar with the dam or sire?

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/scaramouche10


Maybe Gretchen will know (rideagoldenpony)?

I am not super famililar --- I will check with Sandy O'Brien. She knows the BRP pedigress very well.
However, I do see some very nice names -- a nice dose of BWLCH Valentino, Downland, Cusop, Sarnau, and Oakley Bubbling lines..
A bit back here on this board, one of my grand old BRP broodmares was discussed -- she is from very nice old Sarnau lines & there are some overlaps there
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sarnau+valencia

Empire's Power also has some of these lines in his pedigree:
BWLCH Valentino, some Tetworth, Sarnau, Oakley Bubbling, LeChelade Scarlet

Super Trooper is just fabulous! He was one of Allyson's favorites. He is so beautiful. My daughter is lucky and was riding for Ashmont at the time he was in their barn) (Emerson was in the barn too & she got to ride him too at some point) I just came across the picture the other day of Liz and Trooper--Trooper qualified for the greens in late June with a tiny rider and the tiny famous jocks were all reserved for pony finals, so Liz got to pilot him at Pony Finals in his green year (2004) in Lexington, VA. She was big on him and Allyson made her wear garters and jods. He was very green to jumping at the time and he was such a good good boy despite the indoors course being "not so welcoming" for the greens that year.

[Mel0309]

My friend co owns Scaramoche with Michael. I bought a yearling colt from them last year out of a 16H TB mare. I hope he makes 13'2 - he will definately not go over size. I don't think Scaramouche has that much size very close up. I too would not hesitate to breed a big mare to him. I think he moves similar to Super Trooper also.

Wish he was better promoted but co-owners are not that into the ponies anymore.

[VirginiaBred]

Wish he was better promoted but co-owners are not that into the ponies anymore.


I'm thinking that's why he's now in Canada? I've heard some nice things about him.

[myhorsehannah]

Anyone know if there is a website for Prue Richardson's Northwind Farm? I tried to google it with no luck. I'd like to see what plans are for Scaramouche

[quicksilverponies]

I don't believe that Prue has a website, however, she is super nice and would be happy to talk with you about any of her ponies. I would give her a call. Good luck with your mare.

[VirginiaBred]

Anyone know if there is a website for Prue Richardson's Northwind Farm? I tried to google it with no luck. I'd like to see what plans are for Scaramouche


I have sent you an email with her contact information. :)

[tabula rashah]

Check out Fox Cry Nicodemus (http://www.westwoodwelshponies.com/id1.html). He is a drop dead gorgeous stallion who is actually out there competing in dressage against the big boys.

Also Fox Cry Winnie the Pooh (http://www.loaferslodge.com/MORE%20PICS%20OF%20POOH%20BEAR.htm) is quite a looker with movement to match

[VirginiaBred]

Both of them are too large for the OP's mare.

[VirginiaBred]

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused:
Nick is 12.1, and Pooh is 12.2. How can that be "too large"???? Both are stunning stallions of beautiful movement and temperament that have proved their abilities in the show ring.

I think the OP should certainly look at both these stallions.


I said that based on them being Section B stallions. There is height on both sides of their pedigree. :)

[quicksilverponies]

Randee - not trying to argue, but I don't understand your reasoning. There is much less height in the pedigrees of those two ponies than in Scaramouche's pedigree. Nicodemus is Sec. A on the top side (all smalls) and the bottom side is Sec. B, but all of the ponies on that side are 13hh or under except for maybe 2. Whinny the Pooh, being all Sec. B, does have a bit more size on his pedigree, but not close up either.

[quicksilverponies]

After seeing many of the suggestions, I think Sandy's "Blue Who", www.sugarbrook.com is a very good choice for the OPs mare. He is a proven producer and crosses very well on larger mares. Not to mention that he is a gorgeous pony and a great mover.

[Summerwood]

After seeing many of the suggestions, I think Sandy's "Blue Who", www.sugarbrook.com is a very good choice for the OPs mare. He is a proven producer and crosses very well on larger mares. Not to mention that he is a gorgeous pony and a great mover.

I would have to agree here. He is a great mover. Sandy can tell you, but I believe she has crossed him on a few mares of her own in that size range with good results.

[Hunterlover]

I bred him to a 16 hand Hanoverian(Dederick) mare last year. Email me for photos of the lovely filly. He is registered Welsh. His dam Primrose Lane won the pony final champion or reserve for small pony hunters. Primrose produced Glannant Country Lane(stallion)Glannant Yellow Brick Road, Glannant Fifth Avenue and many more - even while producing all of these spectacular pony hunters & sires she managed to go to the pony finals more than once. She was competing in her 20s.

His economic stimulus stud fee is $200 plus collection. He is still very fertile. His nameis Glannant Broadway. He is Liseter bred on the top. I have photos and video of him. I think he's one of the few Glannant pony stallions left.

Good luck.

[pwynnnorman]

Besides prepotency/consistency, what about the "career stallion" vs. "stallion du jour" issue here? I forget (or missed) what the OP indicated was the goal of the breeding. Blue Who is certainly bankable career-wise vs. some of the others.

I keep thinking about this economy and the roll of the dice one takes with breeding. There's something to be said for a stallion who not only meets all genetic criteria, but also some reasonable economic ones, too--whether those "economic ones" involve affordability (of the stallion) or marketability/competitiveness (of the foal).

Hey, OP, how close do you want to get to a "sure thing" (in however many ways you personally define that)?

[Summerwood]

Besides prepotency/consistency, what about the "career stallion" vs. "stallion du jour" issue here? I forget (or missed) what the OP indicated was the goal of the breeding. Blue Who is certainly bankable career-wise vs. some of the others.

I keep thinking about this economy and the roll of the dice one takes with breeding. There's something to be said for a stallion who not only meets all genetic criteria, but also some reasonable economic ones, too--whether those "economic ones" involve affordability (of the stallion) or marketability/competitiveness (of the foal).

Hey, OP, how close do you want to get to a "sure thing" (in however many ways you personally define that)?

I think this is a good post. In this economy especially, I think it is something really important to think about when making your choices. Not sure if the OP if planning on keeping or selling the resulting foal, but either way, you will be better off in the long run if you keep in mind how the foals of each stallion are selling each year. There are a lot of really nice youngsters standing unsold in the pastures due to this economy. I say that not to discourage you from breeding your mare, but to encourage you to be thorough in your examination of each. This board is a great start, there is a lot of knowledge here.:)

[myhorsehannah]

Besides prepotency/consistency, what about the "career stallion" vs. "stallion du jour" issue here? I forget (or missed) what the OP indicated was the goal of the breeding. Blue Who is certainly bankable career-wise vs. some of the others.

I keep thinking about this economy and the roll of the dice one takes with breeding. There's something to be said for a stallion who not only meets all genetic criteria, but also some reasonable economic ones, too--whether those "economic ones" involve affordability (of the stallion) or marketability/competitiveness (of the foal).

Hey, OP, how close do you want to get to a "sure thing" (in however many ways you personally define that)?


Marketability is important to me. My strategy in warmblood breeding has always been to breed to proven sires that are consistently in the leading sire lists in their discipline. Not only does that increase the likehood of getting a quality foal but the stallion's notority does my advertising for me. I only produce one or two foals a year, but I have always been able to sell the foals I've produced at a profit as weanlings or yearlings. The pony market is new to me, so I am doing a lot of research. I appreciate the input I've received from all. There are many lovely stallions out there. Of the options that have been mentioned, who produces the most marketable offspring? I have identified a couple of stallions that I think would be good bets based on their USEF standings over the last few years and sales statistics. But, they are maybe just a tad too tall to ensure I don't get an oversize foal. Pony breeding is tricky business, so much to consider!

[Summerwood]

I was just looking at the pony breeding issue and I noticed...no one mentioned JLA Sir William. He is 12 hands, has several winning ponies to his credit, and, according to his ad, was both 2007 Pony Hunter Breeding Sire champion and 2007 4th for Pony Hunters. Their website is not updated but it seems he has proven himself to be a consistent producer.

[myhorsehannah]

I was just looking at the pony breeding issue and I noticed...no one mentioned JLA Sir William. He is 12 hands, has several winning ponies to his credit, and, according to his ad, was both 2007 Pony Hunter Breeding Sire champion and 2007 4th for Pony Hunters. Their website is not updated but it seems he has proven himself to be a consistent producer.

I did wonder why no one mentioned him as he shows up consistently as a USEF leading sire for breeding and performance. I thought maybe there was an issue I was not aware of.

[quicksilverponies]

He would be a great choice for you. He has produced winners in-hand and under saddle. Nice Sec. A breeding - no height back in the pedigree - and Liseter bred which usually means nice hunter movement in the Sec. As vs the knee action. Good luck in your final decision.

[Summerwood]

Do let us know what you decide...you certainly have lots of nice choices. I think JLA Sir William's record as a sire would at least warrant a call to his owners to chat about him. I don't think there is a stud fee listed for him on his site.

[myhorsehannah]

Do let us know what you decide...you certainly have lots of nice choices. I think JLA Sir William's record as a sire would at least warrant a call to his owners to chat about him. I don't think there is a stud fee listed for him on his site.

I am going to go take a look at some stallions in Virginia this month and will decide soon. I will be contacting JLA Sir William's owner too. I appreciate all the input I've gotten. There are many, very good stallions out there, that's for sure.

Next to JLA Sir William, who comes in the top five in terms of marketability?

[VirginiaBred]

Next to JLA Sir William, who comes in the top five in terms of marketability?

You will get a thousand different replies here.

But because you need to pick a type that is best suited to your mare, then none of us will know the answer.

Selecting a stallion is one thing.

Selecting a stallion that best suits your mare, and her build, conformation and improves on any weaknesses, is a totally different thing.

[myhorsehannah]

You will get a thousand different replies here.

But because you need to pick a type that is best suited to your mare, then none of us will know the answer.

Selecting a stallion is one thing.

Selecting a stallion that best suits your mare, and her build, conformation and improves on any weaknesses, is a totally different thing.

Marketability is not the only consideration, but it is an important one. In the end, I will try to choose the most optimal stallion for all the important considerations (marketability, size, semen quality, suitability to my particular mare, temperament, etc...)

[Pint Sized Pony]

Ok ladies, on another note.... I too have a thoroughbred / appendix mare with a rather plain, flat, unattractive head that would need help from a typey stallion. Need hunter mover with a tight jump; She's 15.3 - 16h depending on the day ; )
I would lean toward a stallion with some refinement to "beautify" her plain jane features; She's a bay roan; Would be breeding for a large pony; Any suggestions?

[Daventry]

Marketability is important to me. ... Of the options that have been mentioned, who produces the most marketable offspring? I have identified a couple of stallions that I think would be good bets based on their USEF standings over the last few years and sales statistics.


Then I would suggest you take a peak at our new stallion *Penrhyn Sporting Chance at www.ponyhunterstallion.com (http://www.ponyhunterstallion.com) Marketing is my middle name! :D

[VirginiaBred]

Then I would suggest you take a peak at our new stallion *Penrhyn Sporting Chance at www.ponyhunterstallion.com (http://www.ponyhunterstallion.com) Marketing is my middle name! :D


Congrats on obtaining Sporting Chance! He really must like Canada to be settling in so nicely!
:cool::yes: