How do you ask your horse to canter?

[Diskretion]

How do you ask your horse to canter?

Do you move your outside leg back and then apply pressure?
Do you move your outside leg back and use your inside seatbone?
Do you move your outside leg back and apply pressure with the inside leg?
Do you.....

There are countless ways to ask and I suspect that not everyone does it the exact same way....

How do you ask for a canter transition?
What's the "proper" way in dressage?

[quietann]

How do you ask your horse to canter?

Do you move your outside leg back and then apply pressure?
Do you move your outside leg back and use your inside seatbone?
Do you move your outside leg back and apply pressure with the inside leg?
Do you.....

How do you ask for a canter transition?
What's the "proper" way in dressage?

I took a cue from Jane Savoie and do the "windshield wiper" brush with the outside leg, from front to back. Both horses I ride respond well to it, though the big lazy gelding gets a little more pressure!

ETA: Inside leg is usually at the girth, especially with maresy, who tends to fall in. When I first started doing canter this way, I made a conscious effort to weight my inside seatbone, but I'm either doing it without realizing it now, or have stopped. Maresy probably would not need that much "aid" so to speak, as she is very sensitive. The nice thing about the leg brush is that it really isn't used for anything else! Have not tried it for counter-canter yet.

[Ambrey]

I took a cue from Jane Savoie and do the "windshield wiper" brush with the outside leg, from front to back. Both horses I ride respond well to it, though the big lazy gelding gets a little more pressure!

:yes: with a little flex to the inside as well. Sure makes you be careful with your leg aids in the trot!

[CapitolDesign]

For those that bring their outside leg back and ask with that leg, what do you do with your inside leg? I find it easier to think about bringing my outside leg back and thinking about the aid from my inside leg/seatbone.

It keeps me asking from my core/back and I am focused on both sides (keeping me straighter).

[Gracie]

As your position improves and your horse becomes more sensitive to the aids, it takes less and less.

I give a slight half halt first, slightly more weight on the outside hind, inside leg, hold outside hand (all together).

[Ambrey]

Hmmm, good question. Inside leg remains at the girth. Only the lower leg sweeps, the upper body remains straight. Not sure if this is correct or not.

[mjhco]

inside leg at the girth, outside leg a bit back and think it.

[Tif_Ann]

Depends on the day, the horse, and Pi's mood ;)

On a good day with Pi, and always on Tommy, I ask with the inside seatbone. I step into the inside stirrup and put my outside leg back slightly, lift the hip and there's a canter :)

On Pi, on a bad day, I ask like above, then squeeze with the outside leg, curse at him, and then use all of the above with the dressage whip on the outside hip. Then, maybe, if he really feels like it, he might canter. Or he might just keep going faster and faster at the trot until I stop him or he falls into it. Or he might decide it's more fun to do a 180 and canter the other direction.

Thankfully the bad days are fewer and fewer :)

[Ambrey]

inside leg at the girth, outside leg a bit back and think it.

So how does this differ from the leg yield aid other than your balance?

[rabicon]

I put inside leg on at girth to push into outside rein to keep the bend (start with a little halfhalt) and bring my outside leg back and apply slight pressure.

[Eclectic Horseman]

So how does this differ from the leg yield aid other than your balance?


Timing of the aid for one thing. You ask for the canter while the outside hind is in the air so that you can influence what it does when it lands.

For another, leg yield has slight flexion away from the direction of movement.

This is hard to describe, but for the canter depart, you also sit deep and sort of suck the horse up with your seat sliding toward the inside seat bone.

[mp]

inside leg at the girth, outside leg a bit back and think it.

So how does this differ from the leg yield aid other than your balance?

That would be the "think it" part.

[Tif_Ann]

So how does this differ from the leg yield aid other than your balance?

I'm sitting here at work thinking about the aids, I bet I look silly. :)

The inside leg is different between canter and leg yield, at least mine is. For canter depart, my inside leg stays supportive at the girth so he doesn't fall in, and it's the hip that asks for the canter. With a leg yield, my hip stays weighted and the leg is more open so he can move in that direction. Also my outside leg - my leg yield cue uses slightly different muscles than the canter cue, my canter cue is lower in the calf.

Also the bend would be different, he'd be bent to the outside for a leg yield coming off the rail to the centerline. The bend would be the same for a half pass or canter depart. Pi doesn't quite get half pass yet, he tries to switch his bend back to the leg yield bend :)

[J-Lu]

I collect the walk and half-halt, put my outside leg *barely* back (otherwise the horse thinks I'm asking to move the haunches in) but enough to activate the outside hind, advance my inside hip, and I ask for canter with my inside leg with the outside rein holding and directing the energy into the canter. There's timing with it all that's kind of hard to articulate...

[rabicon]

Timing of the aid for one thing. You ask for the canter while the outside hind is in the air so that you can influence what it does when it lands.

For another, leg yield has slight flexion away from the direction of movement.

This is hard to describe, but for the canter depart, you also sit deep and sort of suck the horse up with your seat sliding toward the inside seat bone.


Yep, you are going to really grip that saddle with your seat and lift the horse up into the canter with your seat and legs on the leg yield you bend is different as well as your seat.

[Tif_Ann]

Timing of the aid for one thing. You ask for the canter while the outside hind is in the air so that you can influence what it does when it lands.


I've always been taught that you ask for the leg yield when the hind you want to cross over is in the air as well so that the horse steps over while it is in the air. So in a leg yield away from the wall to the centerline, that would be the outside hind.

[Sithly]

This is hard to describe, but for the canter depart, you also sit deep and sort of suck the horse up with your seat sliding toward the inside seat bone.

That's what I do, too. Inside leg at girth, outside leg back, "think" canter with your seat. With my own horse, I very rarely have to apply leg pressure any more. Just the position and the thought is enough.

For a leg yield, my seat sort of "allows" the sideways motion instead of blocking it.

It all sounds nebulous and strange when I type it out, but it makes sense to me and my horse!

[neVar]

Texas once he was about age 5 canter was sit up tall inside leg on and sweep with inside seat bone.

Inco? it's more like bounce bounce bounce kick kcik kcik kick kick kiss kiss cluck cluck YEEEHAW We got it- ooh shi* hang on... :) can you tell he's only cantered af ew times? definatly leg back on that one

[Eclectic Horseman]

I've always been taught that you ask for the leg yield when the hind you want to cross over is in the air as well so that the horse steps over while it is in the air. So in a leg yield away from the wall to the centerline, that would be the outside hind.

Yes, but you ask for the canter with your inside leg (or hip.. depending on the level of training.) The outside leg just "catches the energy" and keeps the haunches from falling out.

[Sandy M]

Slight bend around inside leg/outside leg back/little push with outside leg-inside seatbone. This is with greenie. With old guy, slight bend around inside leg, push with inside seatbone -0r just "think" canter - he was that responsive. LOL

[SisterToSoreFoot]

1. Take reins in one hand.
2. Turn horses head to the outside.
3. Whap horse behind girth with a fat jumping bat.
4.Pull and lean back as the horse starts to canter
5.Whap again when he breaks to the trot.
6.Flap elbows to keep him going.
7. Post the canter by slapping ass down each stride.


Sorry...couldn't resist. I used to put my inside leg at the girth and move my outside very slightly back while half-halting. There was more just "thinking" of this as my horse progressed.

[mp]

1. Take reins in one hand.
2. Turn horses head to the outside.
3. Whap horse behind girth with a fat jumping bat.
4.Pull and lean back as the horse starts to canter
5.Whap again when he breaks to the trot.
6.Flap elbows to keep him going.
7. Post the canter by slapping ass down each stride.


I saw some videos posted recently of this technique. :lol:

As I've learned to ride better and my horses have less "noise" to tune out, I have to be careful of the "think" part or they transition too soon.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

But I also open up my hips and ask him to jump off that inside hind (and as EH said, timing here is critical) - I find it's less legs than seat and core directing the energy. But as Ju-Lu said, I rebalance (half halt) first.

Of course, when this fails, I throw a carrot out in front and tell him to race for it.

[nhwr]

A lot of it has to do with timing of the horse's gait and when you apply the aids. Assuming the horse is properly set up (bend, quarters straight, engaged), a half halt or two and I use my seat with a lifting push and my inside leg as the inside hind comes through.

Using your outside leg makes keeping the horse straight difficult in the tempis.

[Tif_Ann]

Yes, but you ask for the canter with your inside leg (or hip.. depending on the level of training.) The outside leg just "catches the energy" and keeps the haunches from falling out.

This is true - as I posted in my other post, my cue is from the inside hip first except with the horse that's still learning. But the person I was responding to had asked the difference between leg yield and canter cue, and someone had said that you asked for the canter when the outside hind was in the air as a difference. If you are using your outside leg for canter depart, you'd also ask for leg yield at the same time, so that's not a difference.

[Tif_Ann]

Of course, when this fails, I throw a carrot out in front and tell him to race for it.

LOL asking the mare your horse is in love with to canter ahead of him works too.

[slc2]

It depends on how the horse has been trained to pick up the canter, where he is at in his training, and where he is in his ride; he might be a lot more responsive later in the ride when he's all warmed up, on the bit, collected, by the previous exercises.

There might be times with the same horse where he is very hardsided and need a very firm aid, a couple seconds later I might just 'let' the canter come through by giving a very 'hello' type half halt that isn't visible, barely softening my knees and sitting up a little bit.

The 'baby' aid is something one can always fall back to if the horse needs to be corrected - an obvious leg aid at the girth and behind the girth, a firm half halt.

As far as bending the horse's neck or head in the direction of the lead, I sure hope not. If they're trained that way, I try to fix that as soon as possible. It only causes a mess later.

[gabz]

Timing of the aid for one thing. You ask for the canter while the outside hind is in the air so that you can influence what it does when it lands..

Sorry to butt in here, but this is where starting the canter from a standstill is SO tricky (in western riding).

This is hard to describe, but for the canter depart, you also sit deep and sort of suck the horse up with your seat sliding toward the inside seat bone.

I taught the kids outside leg slightly back, pressing against the side of the horse, which changes their hips slightly, and then they are to push with their bottom - just like pumping on the swing.

"sit deep and sort of suck the horse up with your seat" ... yup. That's it. ;)

but most importantly, sitting BACK and off the horse's front end, to free it up to move into the canter. No, absolutey NO, tipping forward when the outside leg is moved back.

[merrygoround]

So how does this differ from the leg yield aid other than your balance?

Because you have also half halted and then lifted with your hips ;)

[Ambrey]

This is a great thread, thanks! I've been sick all week (and now it's raining!) and trying to not lose ground by doing visualization- but visualizing "think canter!" is kind of hard! I'm even having trouble visualizing the things I usually don't have a lot of trouble with!

Don't you HH before a leg yield?

[amastrike]

Lift my shoulders, bring the outside leg back a little bit, and push with the inside leg. If he's not feeling very forward, I'll swing the outside leg back once or twice to let him know we're going to canter in a second. I've found that I ask for up transitions almost exclusively with the inside leg.

[Lilykoi]

Western horses: Look where you are going, kiss, enjoy cantering.

[gabz]

Western horses: Look where you are going, kiss, enjoy cantering.

Alas, the judge and/or steward might think you are being TOO FORWARD (the kiss) :lol: and mark you down.

[gabz]

This is a great thread, thanks! I've been sick all week (and now it's raining!) and trying to not lose ground by doing visualization- but visualizing "think canter!" is kind of hard! I'm even having trouble visualizing the things I usually don't have a lot of trouble with!



I like to visualize ride patterns when I can't do other things. I sit in my chair at work, tilt my hips, and "push"... ha ha ha... then I twist my ankles... unfortunately, my hands are busy on keyboard and mouse, so I can't give and take. Which is probably why it's easier to practice western!! LOL... (look ma, no reins)

[dressagetraks]

My cats think I've totally lost it! I have now "bucked off" 2 consecutive cats by practicing canter departs in my computer chair. :lol::lol:

One of the things that I was warned of in advance on my new mare is that on canter departs, if you don't correctly use the inside seatbone, she will give a half buck slight kick (horse giving half halt to human?) to shift your balance and correctly weight that seatbone. Definitely a deliberate pop you over with "get it right, would you?" ears, not an effort to get the rider off. I'm looking forward to trying out which degree of these aids works on her. Alas, the saddle still isn't here yet, so we lunge in the meantime.

Meanwhile, I'm bucking off cats. :lol:

[Ambrey]

I believe your cats are ready to send you to a cowboy for retraining!

[Tasker]

As an across the board 'signal' - walk to canter, trot to canter or halt to canter, young horse old horse, low or higher level...they all learn the same cues.

Weight on the inside seat bone, sit up, shoulders back, inhale & simultaneously drop my inside heel & knee (which are at the girth). Depending on the level of the horse, the outside leg may drift back 2 inches or not. If it is too far back the horse gets crooked - like a comma around my inside leg.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Oh - and critical for me!! because I am so dyslexic! - if I am asking for true canter, I always make sure they are in the appropriate bend, so we are slightly shoulder fore.

Of course, having a TB, if you can't figure out the aids, you get the person in front of you to do it and then they'll all just take off - yahoo!

[Bobthehorse]

My older horse, I just have to think it, and he does a lovely transition.

My younger one, I make sure to use lots of inside leg, put my outside leg back, and sit deep. If I dont use enough inside leg he still sometimes blows his lead, for fun. He could counter canter all day long.

[Dune]

I say "canter".:p

[Janet]

So how does this differ from the leg yield aid other than your balance?
It is VERY different from a leg yield.

In a canter depart, you keep your shoulders even, or pull the outside shoulder back. In a leg yield you put your outside shoulder slightly forward.

In a canter depart your inside thigh and seatbone move forward and inward and upward. In a leg yield your seat bone and inside thigh move forward and outward.

In a canter depart, you "scoop" you seat to move into the canter rhythm. In a leg yield your seat maintains the rhythm of the current gait.

[mbm]

canter depart on trained mare: with the horse bended/connected etc. and me riding with inside leg at girth o/s leg slightly behind girth - i "think" canter - but in reality this entails the following:

HH on o/s rein to alert, lower inside heel - lovely canter depart. (i have been taught that "scooping" "lifting" "brushing" etc with my seat bones is incorrect and that my seat bones should always be planted deeply and evenly in the saddle. by lowering my inside heel i am "weighting" the seat bone enough . the reason seat bones should always remain on the horse is the second you take on off or unweight it - you give the horse and escape route.

as for canter aid as compared to ly - again i am taught that there is really only 3 aids and variations thereof: halt/turn/go - and the canter aid is the same as the HP aid is the same as the turn aid is the same as the CP aid etc. but somehow we transmit the difference to the horse - it always amazes me when they can tell the difference!

[Janet]

HH on o/s rein to alert, lower inside heel - lovely canter depart. (i have been taught that "scooping" "lifting" "brushing" etc with my seat bones is incorrect and that my seat bones should always be planted deeply and evenly in the saddle. by lowering my inside heel i am "weighting" the seat bone enough . the reason seat bones should always remain on the horse is the second you take on off or unweight it - you give the horse and escape route.
Yeh, it isn't really "scooping" in the sense of "pumpng", but a change in the rhythm. I don't really know how to dscribe it.

[crazyhorses]

My mare is super sensitive to the canter aid. Before I'm going to ask, I take my outside leg and touch her a little bit just to prepare. Then I put my inside leg near the girth and move my outside leg ever so slightly. Sometimes I don't even need to touch her :) My old trainer used to say "some of the dressage riders can make their horse canter just my moving their hip!" I can now!! LOL. I love my mare.

[gabz]

My mare is super sensitive to the canter aid. Before I'm going to ask, I take my outside leg and touch her a little bit just to prepare. Then I put my inside leg near the girth and move my outside leg ever so slightly. Sometimes I don't even need to touch her :) My old trainer used to say "some of the dressage riders can make their horse canter just my moving their hip!" I can now!! LOL. I love my mare.

You got it!!

Yup, I think that's why it becomes hard to describe it because after we ride horses enough we just "do it" and don't think about all the little tiny movements we make. And, if we ride the same horse over and over, we become a partnership.
And, that makes the difference between a great instructor/trainer and a not so good one. Being able to describe what little movements to make, seeing what the rider is missing, and helping them achieve those little steps.

[Ambrey]

I know I didn't start this thread, but thanks to the OP and everyone who has posted :) I was thinking was along the lines of what mbm was saying- although the basic cues seem the same, my horse always seems to figure out what I mean.

Sometimes he sees canter aids, though, where I did not intend to put them and this has helped me understand why. Usually not with LY, but with HI at the trot.

[merrygoround]

Not uncommon for a horse in early stages to be not lisrening exactly to the aids, to think canter instead of HI, this is why the aids must be, while subtle, distinct.

[Ambrey]

It is not him, it's me. Well, a little bit of wishful thinking on his part ;)

I must be doing something with my seat that is making him think "canter" when I mean "HI."

[*Trinity*]

I have the same problem as Ambrey. Usually, I can distinguish between haunches in/canter well enough, but occassionaly my horse misunderstands and canters instead of haunches in. I still haven't been able to figure out exactly what it is that I'm doing differently, as I concentrate on keeping my seat rhythm the same and not lifting him with my hip as I do for canter depart. Although, I feel like sometimes I almost twist my seat in effort to put him in haunches in (it's not easy for either of us) and my inside hip comes forward. Is this wrong? I am keeping the same rhythm and not necessarily 'scooping' him with my hip, it just points forward.
Can someone differentiate (sp?) between canter/haunches in? Janet did a lovely clear job of canter/LY.

[Equibrit]

Half halt and then lead him up and ahead with inside hip. No swishing legs.
Or
Say "canter" !

All that confusion is because your seat is not quiet and clear.

[petitefilly]

Inco? it's more like bounce bounce bounce kick kcik kcik kick kick kiss kiss cluck cluck YEEEHAW We got it- ooh shi* hang on... :) can you tell he's only cantered af ew times? definatly leg back on that one

LOL You and I have the same aid with a youngin"! You forgot to aid "Holy Crap!!!!" Mine was 17.2!

[Gontyna]

If you're going from walk to canter, be sure you have a 1-2-3-4 walk rhythm in your body, then sit up tall, take a big breath (which serves as a half-halt), forward your inside hip, and begin the 1-2-3 rhythm in your body. Works like a charm.

Same thing in trot except that you're changing from 1-2-1-2 to 1-2-3. And when you're ready to transition back to trot, put the 1-2-1-2 rhythm back in your body, and you'll make a lovely downward transition.

I learned this from my teacher, and then I saw a similar idea in Sally O'Connor's book...

[amastrike]

And when you're ready to transition back to trot, put the 1-2-1-2 rhythm back in your body, and you'll make a lovely downward transition.

I think I've been doing this for a while without really knowing it, and it does work wonders. I don't know how well the trot to canter version of it would work, though... My horse has a horribly bouncy trot and sitting it enough to get the canter is a struggle. I'll try it at the walk, though.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

That is my problem - I think "stop canter" not "start trot" and it blows the flow!