What makes a broodmare worth $30k +?

[BlueMoonJumper]

Just curious as to what exactly makes a very valuable broodmare in these economic times? There are seemingly very nicely bred, proven, fertile WB mares falling out of the sky for cheap lease/free lease/giveaway status.

Yet, cruising on a few sites, I have seen several broodmares that are priced at $30k and up. Many of them, even most I'd say, don't come from performance backgrounds. Yes, the bloodlines and conformation were there for most of them, but then again, honestly, some didn't seem very special at all, and some were broodmare sound only. I guess I'm just surprised, since the sky seems to be falling for many of us. To me, a $30k plus broodmare would be one with a proven record both in performance and offspring, with the bloodlines to back it up. And by performance, I mean ex-GP or big time hunter, who maybe was just broodie sound at this point. Also, conformation and excellent temperament and fertility. In short, it would have to be a SPECTACULAR mare.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that these mares I saw WEREN'T worth what was being asked, just, to an ammie, some did not seem as special as the price suggested. And yes, many were from top farms.

So what would make it worth it to YOU to spend that kind of money on a broodmare?

Thanks. And, not trying to start a fight, just honestly interested in hearing the thoughts of experienced breeders on this.

[Dressage_Diva333]

I agree with most of what you mentioned, but, like you said, broodmares are "falling out of the sky" right now. I just did a search on Dreamhorse for Warmblood broodmares, and it is most definately a buyers markets. If I were to be paying $30000 for a broodmare, I would expect the following; SPS/EM (or Premium, whataver the "elite" mares are called in whichever registry the mare is in), some type of successful show career, whether it being cleaning up and scoring very highly at Breed Shows, or being very successful in Dressage, or just did very well at inspection.... all three would be a plus, fertile, proven producer of very nice foals (at least one), and most definately a very strong, proven pedigree.

There are mares out there like that, I can think of several mares off the top of my head that I would pay big bucks for (if I had big bucks to pay for a horse right now...haha), a good broodmare is really the key to success in breeding IMHO.


Edited to add:
This is for mares already in the United States, it isn't uncommon for mares to go for very high prices in Europe.

[Sunnydays]

Actually, most people who have purchased broodmares at the German Elite Mare auctions, have paid about $30,000 for them, (sometimes more)by the time all commission, import and quarantine costs are included. For that you usually get an SPA or SPS mare with good bloodlines and conformation, and good Performance Test scores, who is in foal to a top stallion. Usually this mare is young (3 or 4 or maybe 5), so you get the mare, and her coming foal, and 15 years or more of breeding-life for that amount of money. If you expect to get 10+ foals from that mare, you factor in $3000 or less per foal into your production costs, in addition to the breeding costs and mare-keep costs.
The better the mare, the greater the possibility of producing very good foals.

[Renae]

Proven national/international quality producer that is still breeding sound an young enough to easily have 5-10 more foals. What a broodmare is worth driectly translates to what her foals will sell for. Nice pedigrees and a performance record on her are nice when she has not had any foals yet, but at that point she is still a broodmare prospect and her value is as a performance horse.

[Crosiadore Farm]

Have to agree with Sunnydays. I have spent 30,000 dollars plus on a couple broodmares, and they are worth every cent. It is far better to have one superior broodmare than five nice ones.

If you follow the European market closely....auctions of Stallions, Riding horses, foals, broodmares, you will find it is the same 40 or 50 families that are at the top of the heap on a regular basis. It is not chance when stallions are produced and World Champions born...it is genetics. Some may not like to acknowlege this, but it is the truth. I have at least one more mare family I am seeking to add to my breeding program, and I know it is going to cost me dearly! If you are fortunate enough to find a mare that is from one of these "elite" families, it might be worth the investment.

[BlueMoonJumper]

Have to agree with Sunnydays. I have spent 30,000 dollars plus on a couple broodmares, and they are worth every cent. It is far better to have one superior broodmare than five nice ones.

Yes, this makes perfect sense to me, I was just wondering if I was not quite "with it" because many of the mares I've seen in the stated price range didn't seem superior. Nice, but not what I would call truly "superior".

[pintopiaffe]

Are they really on *sale* sites? Or just listed on private websites?

I have a pricetag on almost every horse on my farm. Doesn't mean I *want* to sell them. But I'm not entirely foolish. Someone offers me the $10k for the 4yo, I'm in. Someone offers me $30k for the TrakX colt, I'd have to take it. It would break my heart, but ensure the future for the others...

So sometimes horses are listed for sale that aren't quite worth the price...

And sometimes people have partners/spouses who INSIST the horse be put on the market,and people put a price on they'd be willing to sell for, when again, the horse isn't *really* for sale...

[ilikridn]

Interesting reply, pintopiaffe. That's exactly what my husband said we should do. He's working on a website for our farm, and he said we should put his horse on there that he really doesn't want to sell, but for a price that would change his mind if someone really wanted to pay it.

I also like your suggestion for the marketing of horses (you don't really want to sell) to make spouses/partners happy. :winkgrin:

[maple_brook]

Spending 30k or more on a quality broodmare is not out of line and is done fairly often. The broodmares are the foundation of your breeding program and you need to have as nice a mare as you can. For 30k, I would expect a young mare, repro. sound, SPS/A or Elite, from a proven mareline, excellent conformation, movement and temperament. Of course, the better the mareline, the higher the price and it can go much higher than 30k.

As for listing horses with a high price tag that you don't really want to sell...for me, I don't see the point. My ladies here in the US are absolutely not for sale at any price. I have been asked and my answer is always absolutely not for sale. On the rare occasion that we have sold one of our mares, I cared more about the home than the price I was getting anyway.

[ThreeDays]

I'll chime in and agree that a broodmare who has bonified merits in the breeding shed is often worth her weight - translated to mean generally in the $25-$30k range.

A 'good' broodmare need not have competed and accomplished things in sport herself to be worth this amount. But her direct lineage and personal production record should stack up.

This can mean slightly different things based on the specific breed. (Example - Holsteiner breeders can look to families aka stamms to evaluate brood-stock and can also look at yearly indexes that indicate which families are currently producing well). Other breeds and breeders will look to different criteria to evaluate the potential of said breeding animal.

A mare who has already produced a grand prix level jumper or dressage horse will likely never be available or will only be available for huge amounts of money (try in the $60k+ range).

And as for someone's comment on listing horses for sale at high dollar asking prices to ward off most potential sales - I'd have to say - did you ever consider that if your website lists horses for outrageous asking prices vs what the actual horse truly 'is' due to not wanting to sell your personal horse - that casual or prospective clients might see you as being unreasonable in the value you assign to your stock and choose to do business with someone else?

I personally would look elsewhere if I saw horse 'x' a nice gelding competing at lower level sport under an amateur priced the same as another horse who is competing at a much higher level and the real deal.

I think it might give the wrong impression without meaning to.

I think most of us horse people have horses in our barn that we never plan to part with and don't advertise for sale. But if someone should casually inquire about that particular horse - state that it's your personal horse and you wouldn't part with it for less than $---.

Just a suggestion . . . .

[Whitfield Farm Hanoverians]

I have a broodmare that no amount of $$$ could buy as she continues to give me exceptional foals every year. She is allowing me to live out my dream of producing superior quality horses. She is a States Premium mare, wonderful bloodlines, fabulous producer. She's 16 yrs old this year & going to have foal #13. Gets in foal easily. Great mother, calm yet put her bridle on her at the show & she's really "up". Puts loads of suspension & push on all of her foals. Her foals have been AHS inspection site champs 4 out of the past 5 inspections, first daughter since here was foal champ, then res. champ at her AHS mare inspection with high score, then 9th overall of all mares inspected that year, another daughter produced a million $$ PSI auction horse, has one GP jumper son in Germany, has young horse winners over here. These types of mares are priceless in my opinion.
She'll never be sold, just worshiped!!!

[pintopiaffe]

Three Days, not saying *I* list them, just saying I know it's done. ;)

And there are two on my land that are beyond any price. The rest, I would be foolish and not a good steward if I did not take a certain price for them, but that price would not necessarily be comparable to similar horses on the market, it would be what they are WORTH to ME.

And I too have given away one of my best producers, because she went to a fabulous home with a therapeutic program for severely MR children. Her pedigree, show record and training put her close to, if not into 5 figures. ALL of my homes are very carefully screened, price regardless.

[Faiths CremelloWB]

While I agree that 30,000 is a lot for a broodmare I do think that some are worth that for sure. What I am willing to pay for a broodmare is what I can sell 1-2 of her foals for... So if I can sell a mares foal for 10,000. Then I would be willing to pay 10-15,000. If I could sell a foal for 7000 then I would be willing to pay 7-10,000. When someone pays 1-2000 for a mare and then try to sell the foal for 8-10,000; it is no wonder the horse market is flooded and there are more horses than buyers. The people/breeders who are/were in this to get rich quick have another thing coming... And that is why they are having a "herd reduction" sale. Not meaning to offend anyone in particular. I would much rather have 4 mares worth 10-30,000 than 10 mares at 1-3000.

Sure there are times when you may get a great deal on a mare... but if the mares foals were *that* nice and very marketable then why would that mare be for sale so cheap. If those foals were easy sells then the breeder who owned that mare would likely not NEED to sell her. Just a thought...

I think all my broodmares are precious and I have spent a small fortune acquiring them. After all they carry the future of my farm and livelihood for 11 months a year. Then nurse and teach them for another 4-6 months.

The best advice that was ever given to me as a newbie...was to go out and look for the best broodmare you can afford and then scrape up some more money and buy an even better one!!!

[Donella]

Great post Faithscremello!

[Ravencrest_Camp]

While I agree that 30,000 is a lot for a broodmare I do think that some are worth that for sure. What I am willing to pay for a broodmare is what I can sell 1-2 of her foals for... So if I can sell a mares foal for 10,000. Then I would be willing to pay 10-15,000. If I could sell a foal for 7000 then I would be willing to pay 7-10,000. When someone pays 1-2000 for a mare and then try to sell the foal for 8-10,000; it is no wonder the horse market is flooded and there are more horses than buyers. The people/breeders who are/were in this to get rich quick have another thing coming... And that is why they are having a "herd reduction" sale. Not meaning to offend anyone in particular. I would much rather have 4 mares worth 10-30,000 than 10 mares at 1-3000.

Sure there are times when you may get a great deal on a mare... but if the mares foals were *that* nice and very marketable then why would that mare be for sale so cheap. If those foals were easy sells then the breeder who owned that mare would likely not NEED to sell her. Just a thought...

I think all my broodmares are precious and I have spent a small fortune acquiring them. After all they carry the future of my farm and livelihood for 11 months a year. Then nurse and teach them for another 4-6 months.

The best advice that was ever given to me as a newbie...was to go out and look for the best broodmare you can afford and then scrape up some more money and buy an even better one!!!


But isn't being able to find a really special mare for a low price one of the things that makes someone a successful breeder? Isn;t having knowledge about conformation and a GOOD eye what differentiates a successful breeder from a not so successful one?

To over simplify the case. Anyone that has the money can go to an elite auction and buy a mare. But someone who has a good eye can beat the bushes and find a diamond in the rough. And because this diamond in the rough is not going to cost a fortune, that person has a great chance of being finacially succesful with their breeding.

In short, just because you haven't paid a lot for a mare, does not mean she isn't a good one.

[maple_brook]

But isn't being able to find a really special mare for a low price one of the things that makes someone a successful breeder? Isn;t having knowledge about conformation and a GOOD eye what differentiates a successful breeder from a not so successful one?

To over simplify the case. Anyone that has the money can go to an elite auction and buy a mare. But someone who has a good eye can beat the bushes and find a diamond in the rough. And because this diamond in the rough is not going to cost a fortune, that person has a great chance of being finacially succesful with their breeding.

In short, just because you haven't paid a lot for a mare, does not mean she isn't a good one.

No, that is not what makes a good breeder. Good breeders are not defined by being financially successful...they are defined by the foals they put on the ground. Better mares bred to the appropriate stallion make better foals. A good breeder has a good eye for mares and also a good eye for which stallions to put with them. (Which is why you can't just go buy an expensive mare at the elite auction and be successful) A good breeder knows the great importance of finding the best mares/marelines possible. And they know the great importance of obsessing about which stallion to put to her.

To paraphrase what faithcremello said...4 mares worth 30k are better than 12 mares worth 10k. And I bet you would find that those farms with the smaller but higher quality marebands are better able to make a profit. JMHO.

[YankeeLawyer]

But isn't being able to find a really special mare for a low price one of the things that makes someone a successful breeder? Isn;t having knowledge about conformation and a GOOD eye what differentiates a successful breeder from a not so successful one?

That theory presumes the seller does not know the value of what they are selling, or is desperate or otherwise highly motivated to sell for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of the horse. The horses in my barn came from highly regarded breeders in Germany, and one in the U.S., and believe me, every one of them knows how to evaluate a horse perfectly well and is not fooled by a short term gawky period as a yearling, a little mud on the coat, or whatever else might make an amateur eye overlook a talented individual.

With regard to expecting that top broodmares have an upper level performance record, note that in Europe top broodmares typically only have their MPTs and do not compete -- they go straight to the breeding shed (breed the best / ride the rest, they say). I don't want a 12 year old + maiden mare, as a general rule, and I certainly would not pay exorbitant sums for an aged ex-show mare that is unproven as a mother and is, for example, only pasture sound. What if I can't get her in foal? What if she is not a good producer? What if she is nasty to her foals? No thanks. It happens that I plan to put my young mares back to work after they foal out this year, and thereafter they will be bred by ET, but I really don't need a pile of ribbons to tell me what I have in my barn. Their foals are going to tell me a lot more about how valuable they are as producers, and I already know what my mares can do themselves.

[TwinGates]

Spending 30k or more on a quality broodmare is not out of line and is done fairly often. The broodmares are the foundation of your breeding program and you need to have as nice a mare as you can. For 30k, I would expect a young mare, repro. sound, SPS/A or Elite, from a proven mareline, excellent conformation, movement and temperament. Of course, the better the mareline, the higher the price and it can go much higher than 30k.

Well said.

[DownYonder]

I also agree with MapleBrook's comments. I would expect to pay at least 30K for an exceptional mare meeting MapleBrook's qualifications. A mare like that will pay you back many times over in the quality of her foals.

OTOH, it is sometimes possible to find a rare treasure available for less, esp. in these hard economic times when many breeders - here and in Europe - are downsizing their mare bands.

[camohn]

Interesting reply, pintopiaffe. That's exactly what my husband said we should do. He's working on a website for our farm, and he said we should put his horse on there that he really doesn't want to sell, but for a price that would change his mind if someone really wanted to pay it.

I also like your suggestion for the marketing of horses (you don't really want to sell) to make spouses/partners happy. :winkgrin:

*snort* my hubby was reading this thread over my shoulder when he heard me laughing so he gave me a pointed look and said "so do WE have any of those you are supposed to be selling and are maybe not so reasonably priced?" I honestly said "yup....filly X". It was safe to admit to Filly X because for one it IS true and I also happen to know that Filly X is HIS favorite too so he isn't going to feel too badly if that one sticks around! My broodmares are all too old to be saleable and are here til they die....the youngest one I have left at present is 18. I do have younger mares but with the economy they are being started under saddle for riding and not breeding at this point. My hubbys best riding horse is 14 so we think we may breed her this year before she gets any older though. He is NOT into breeding/generally only has an interest in riding but this is his all time favorite horse so he thinks he does want to breed her and ET is not in our budget.

[Faiths CremelloWB]

But isn't being able to find a really special mare for a low price one of the things that makes someone a successful breeder? Isn;t having knowledge about conformation and a GOOD eye what differentiates a successful breeder from a not so successful one?

To over simplify the case. Anyone that has the money can go to an elite auction and buy a mare. But someone who has a good eye can beat the bushes and find a diamond in the rough. And because this diamond in the rough is not going to cost a fortune, that person has a great chance of being financially successful with their breeding.

In short, just because you haven't paid a lot for a mare, does not mean she isn't a good one.

Sure there are a "very few" fabulous broodmares that a person could dig around and find for lower prices. But in general I would say that is not the norm. For a show prospect what you say would be more true than a broodmare. A show prospect; finding a diamond in the rough or one with correctable issues could make the price less. But a broodmare is what she produces, how she cares for her kids, how sought after are her kids, and her bloodlines. Those things are right there in front of you and all of us breeders. And sure not every mare one pays a high price for is going to be an outstanding producer. But if you take 20 broodmares that sold for 30K and 20 that sold for 5K, there is going to be a much higher percent of fabulous foals from the 30K mares. Sure the 5k mares may well have some quite nice foals but if we are talking about stellar foals that will command high price tags and be sold prior to weaning. For argument sake the scenario above was all the mares being bred to the same quality stallions.

I am not saying that a mare for 5k is worthless and produces crap. Just that is will be a difference in the quality of foals they produce, what price they command and how long it takes to sell the foal. They all cost the same to feed and care for...

[Faiths CremelloWB]

*snort* my hubby was reading this thread over my shoulder when he heard me laughing so he gave me a pointed look and said "so do WE have any of those you are supposed to be selling and are maybe not so reasonably priced?" I honestly said "yup....filly X". It was safe to admit to Filly X because for one it IS true and I also happen to know that Filly X is HIS favorite too so he isn't going to feel too badly if that one sticks around! My broodmares are all too old to be saleable and are here til they die....the youngest one I have left at present is 18. I do have younger mares but with the economy they are being started under saddle for riding and not breeding at this point. My hubbys best riding horse is 14 so we think we may breed her this year before she gets any older though. He is NOT into breeding/generally only has an interest in riding but this is his all time favorite horse so he thinks he does want to breed her and ET is not in our budget.

LOL, we all have one horse or maybe *two* that we do not want to sell. Those are not listed on my sales page and if someone does inquire I do have a price I tell them... Needless to say they will be here forever!


I stick by what one of my mentors statements to me was many years ago...

Go out and look for the best broodmare you can afford and then scrape up some more money and buy an even better one!!!

[ThreeDays]

Maple Brook & Yankee Lawyer explained it well.

A quality broodmare is determined on completely different criteria than the sporthorse. There are many different check points that need to be present to revere a mare as brood-stock.

She needs to possess the type and good conformation representative of her breed, she needs to have very good athletic ability, she needs to have a high likelihood of possessing the genetics that made her, she needs to be of good character and mind, and additionally needs to be reproductively sound.

These good mares don't accidentally happen. They aren't made or bred by chance. In most cases it took good and experienced breeders to produce a good mareline that she descends from. Good breeders make informed breeding decisions for their mares - generationally. It is a long thought out plan that is executed over time. This aids to the predictability of what these mares will produce.

Genetics and family play a huge part in assessing a broodmare because it's not just the mare standing in front of you that you need to be aware of when breeding. You need to understand how she came to be.

A good sporthorse is a good sporthorse. This doesn't suddenly make it a great broodmare because the retired sporthorse also happens to have a uterus.

Therefore the theory of a good horseman being able to find a diamond in the rough is pretty unlikely. It would take years and defiance of the odds to find a mare based solely on conformation and sport accomplishments that could stack up in the breeding shed along side a mare designed to be a producer of top notch sporthorses.

This could all get thrown out the window of course if you are speaking of breeding a sporthorse to produce an average cute local rated riding horse. But I don't believe that that is the goal of the breeders who are posting on this particular thread.

When buying one of these lovely ladies - you are buying the time and efforts it took to create her. You are buying the predictability of how to breed her, what she will produce and her reproductive soundness.

And believe me - if we're all talking about WB's that were imported from Germany or their mothers who were imported from Germany - these mares are culled if they have reproductive issues. I haven't come across many German breeders who will put a mare on regumate or work to exhaustion to get a mare in foal or maintain a pregnancy.

Reproductive soundness is genetic and something that is certainly top on the list of things to consider when buying a broodmare.

I think almost every breeder here can tell you stories about when they were just starting out and how they too enjoyed the prospects of finding the one mare everyone else overlooked. But time and money and disappointment has led them to pursue finding the real McCoy.

[Faiths CremelloWB]

Amen Threedays!

I remember not toooo long ago a fellow breeder was posting on the boards looking for something very specific. One is pointed out on website xxx and the price was 15,000. The breeder thought it was too much money for a mare like that. The breeder wanted to pay no more than $2,500. ARG... The mare was quite nice and if that was what I was looking for than I would have called the owner of the mare for sale and discussed her. Not ah... to much for me... I only want to spend 2,500.

Instead of breeders thinking about going out looking for a great deal on a mare they should be looking for the best mare they can afford. Even if the price is 5k. It is just the mind set that is wrong. IMO

[Iron Horse Farm]

I agree with most of what was said - especially maple Brook - but I have two personal examples:

I knew that I couldn't afford the jumping bloodlines that I really wanted to put in my program. The mares with these bloodlines are selling in the european auctions for 30+++++ and you still have to import. Soooo, I bought a filly (Lordanos/Landor S/Zeus) at the Elite foal auction. I still spent in the 20k range after import, but I saved a lot by geting one there - even if I have to sit on her for a few years!

Almost a year ago, I bought an older imported Elite mare for very, very little money when the owner was in financial straits, had tried unsuccessfully to get her in foal and was done. She is currently infoal and living like the princess she always knew she was! For me, it was worth the risk knowing that I had a very good repro vet.

[ThreeDays]

Iron Horse -

It can be a great investment to buy a young filly or mare prior to her breeding years. Top fillies in Germany can be found and had for $6k-$10k euros. You just have to know what you're looking for and understand the family. A gamble? Sure - but the odds are more on your side in this instance than when buying a 12yr old sporthorse who has never been bred or comes from an unknown lineage. (I don't know anything about the lineage of your filly - but congrats on her if she was what you were looking for).

I'm happy that you had good success getting your newly acquired elite mare in foal. However, I personally wouldn't be interested in chasing a mare who had difficulties with breeding. Too expensive and not worth considering the possibilities that her problems would transcend to later generations.

Faith's Cremello ~

Agreed!

I'm not trying to act as though I know what's best. But I do know from first hand experience that if you want to take breeding seriously - you need to sit down and make some difficult decisions and evaluate what your plan of action will be.

My husband and I made hard decisions when we decided to take breeding seriously. We culled almost our entire herd (5 mares). Mares were culled for different reasons. Fertility, pedigree, type, athleticism, etc.

Point is - you have to love your mare - faults and all - because even the one little undesirable trait she may have - is likely to be something you have to deal with for several generations. So make that one fault or undesirable thing - something that you can live with.

Sometimes this means being patient and developing a long term plan on budgeting in order to obtain the mare you want. In the meantime work on learning more.

Spending time saving your money and educating yourself will far surpass the alternative - which is to devote yourself to a sub-par mare that you will spend years of wasted time & energy defending.

[camohn]

Sometimes a gamble works...depends on the circumstances. All my mares but one come from good families. I do have one that has a very average pedigree. Three generations back she is well bred but going back one or two she is pretty ho hum. She is a "nice" looking mare but has some confo flaws so on confo is also "average". I didn't actually go to look at her. I went to look at a fancy bred bred filly at farm X. Fancy Filly was not cheap as folks here mentioned....her price tag was at the top of my price range but I was looking for a good mare and was considering biting the bullet. In the end I found Fancy Filly to be too hot in tempement and as I was leaving I saw this mare out in the next field with a stunning looking weanling at side. The farm owner also had the mare's foal prior to that who had place Top Ten at DAD. The foals has scored a very respectable 7.9 at inspections. I asked if SHE was for sale.......as it was the owner wanted to downsize and was willing to not only part with her but at a very modest price too since she was no spring chicken. That one was bought solely on the basis of her foals.

[Donella]

When buying one of these lovely ladies - you are buying the time and efforts it took to create her.

Yes, and these mares are revered by their breeders. Good mare families are what a breeder is famous for, how they are known ect perhaps even more than any stallions that they mayhave bred or stood ect, at least in Germany.

When I decided to get into breeding on a very small scale a few years ago, I had a good idea about the kind of mare I wanted, but to buy this actual mature broodmare was out of my price range at the time. Instead, I bought a filly from a mare family that I really liked. Through this purchase, I came to be good friends with her breeder, a wonderful German man who lived and breathed Hanoverian horses. He bought his first mare in his early twenties and had that mare family for over thirty eight years, importing two of them into Canada when he came.

This man lived for his mares, they were everything to him and the center of his breeding program. I learned from him the true value and importance of the mare in the breeding equation. Unfortunately he was unable to take his mares back to Germany with him when he retured two years ago and so it was that they came to be with us, but you know, I think the day those mares left his place was probably one of the hardest days of his life. They were his lifes passion and achievement.

I do think that this is how most successful breeders feel about their mares , they recognize how vital they are to their success as breeders. These mares are not mares who simply have good conformation or mares who happened to do well in the show ring or just mares, they are banks of genetic wealth, so to speak. They are not a dime a dozen and so in most cases, their prices and the prices of their offspring reflect this.

[Iron Horse Farm]

Iron Horse -

I'm happy that you had good success getting your newly acquired elite mare in foal. However, I personally wouldn't be interested in chasing a mare who had difficulties with breeding. Too expensive and not worth considering the possibilities that her problems would transcend to later generations.




THanks ThreeDays, she had already had something like 13 foals successfully, so when I spoke to the people I had more than an inkling that it was a management issue.

[ilikridn]

Regarding the reaction to my comment earlier... You are right that advertising something you don't really want to sell for an outrageous price is bad business. I guess I should clarify... if it's a filly you don't really want to sell, advertise it at a price that would talk you into it. I don't see anything wrong with that. I've seen websites where they have several fillies/colts advertised at pretty much the same prices. But then you'll see one or two that are quite a bit more. It always makes me wonder. Now that I think about it, maybe those are their favorites and they would like them to be the last to go. Makes sense. And if someone really wants that colt or filly, either they can try to talk them into a lower price or pay what's being asked. It's not unheard of.

[Frogs Leap]

First, I have to say that I am really happy to hear all of the very reasonable explainations for the value of a broodmare. It gives me heart that we, as breeders, are learning the value of the mother lines! It can be very discouraging to hear that others do not value what we as breeders have put into either creating, or purchasing a special mare. Honestly, where do people think that these fabulous riding horses come from?

As an example, what do you think that a mare like Blue Hors Matinee's dam would be worth? Matinee was not the first international horse that this mare produced. She was not shown to any high level, nor even graded in the highest book of her registry. (This was due to a reorganization issue in Denmark, but still.) Would a mare that can produce two Olympic caliber (yes, I know that Matinee did not compete at an Olympics, but the quality was there if not the timing, and the mare Ballysear Royalle, did compete for England many years ago.) be worth less than $30K because of her lack of performance or Elite status? I would trade my HUSBAND for a mare like that! (Please don't anyone tell him I said that!)

Still, I am really happy to see that there are many breeders here that value their mares. When I started breeding horses I was very lucky that my good friend, and mentor chose to sell her farm and I was able to buy a lovely mare that otherwise would NEVER have been on the market. Yes, I paid the money to get such a mare, but I would never have even had the CHANCE at such a mare if she were not getting out of the business. I remember going to her farm to look at the mares and falling very hard for an amazing Don Schufro mare. Over dinner, she sat me down and said, "Yes, that is a lovely horse. She will make someone very happy, but she is not the broodmare. Her mother lines are not strong enough, and not proven enough to depend on. So, for the mare that will PRODUCE for you, choose the other one that does not look so fancy, but has an amazing colt by her side." It was the best advice I could ever get. That mare has produced two amazing foals for me so far, and I expect another in the spring.