What about Bugatti Hilltop and his foals??

[talloaks]

I have read through the thread about Royal Prince and Rousseau so have wondered what the thoughts are on Bugatti Hilltop and his foals. What type of mares crosses well with him, etc??? You know, all the usual breeder questions!!:lol:

[Sundown Farm]

I really like Bravo! He is obviously very successful!! Out of his first crop of 4, three of them were premium!!

[misita]

One tiny little, itsy bitsy brag. Of the 6 foals that Bravo has on the ground, one died in 08, 4 were awarded premium, 2 were site champions, 1 was officially named a stallion prospect by Christian Schacht, breeding director for Old NA in 2007, and in 2008 one sold as a stallion prospect.

As for Bugatti Hilltop himself, I obviously just adore him since I bought one of his sons, Bravo,
who is now an approved breeding stallion. Of his offspring that I have seen, Bugatti is pre-potent for modern type, correct conformation, exquisite movement, and fabulous dispositions. He also consistently appears to improve the mares he breeds. At least thats been my observation. He has numerous site champions and premium foals on the ground, including one approved son, Bravo. Also, he has 2 mares who scored incredibly at their mare inspection. I believe Bailla scored 110 and Broadway earned 111 in 2007.

[Home Again Farm]

I bred a Bugatti in 2003 - an ET with my mare Wintermaske (Weltbekannt/ Rubinstein I). EMC Ballerina (despite being raised as an orphan after the surrogate dam tried to kill her) matured beautifully into an elegant mare with incredible rideability. She received an 8.5 for rideability in her MPT when only 60 days under saddle. She can be seen on my website here:

http://www.homeagainfarm.com/pages/ballerina.html

[maple_brook]

I got to see Bugatti this fall when he came to the MA Equine Affaire...beautiful stallion. His temperament was absolutely amazing. He did Pfizer Fantasia and nothing phased him. If I remember correctly he had an excellent ability to sit and collect.

[contento's mum]

Lovely, lovely boy. Unbelievable temperment. I have spent a lot of time with Bugi in Germany. I have handled him numerous times and he just is the NICEST guy. His walk is fantastic. Much more beautiful in the flesh than in photos. Also taller than he appears in many photos. First time I saw him he took my breath away.
Almost purchased Tiki's lovely colt Berlioz - but at that time hadn't met Bugi and didn't know enough about him.. Berlioz was the friendliest colt imaginable. I visited him repeatedly as he was a pasture buddy of the little guy I did buy. My daughter was always more crazy about Berlioz than mine!
Berlioz scored overall 8.8 at his inspection and was highest scoring Old NA colt for entire country 2003. He also showed well at Devon that year and placed 4th in colts of 2003 I believe. Tiki correct me if I am wrong. I believe he is doing well under saddle now.

[clint]

The only offspring I have seen by BH was a colt presented for AHS licensing. He was a very big boy. Does BH need a more modern type mare?

[selah]

In addition to the wonderful temperment already mentioned, is downright intelligence. Not the sly kind, but an "I want to understand what you want me to do", and a great willingness to do what is asked. I get the feeling mine could probably learn algebra!
He also seems to have a great suppleness and elasticity, particularly for lateral movement, which is a comment that has been made about Bugatti.

Add to that a lovely pedigree, and the great-to-work-with Hilltop staff!

[misita]

Lovely, lovely boy. Unbelievable temperment. I have spent a lot of time with Bugi in Germany. I have handled him numerous times and he just is the NICEST guy. His walk is fantastic. Much more beautiful in the flesh than in photos. Also taller than he appears in many photos. First time I saw him he took my breath away.
Almost purchased Tiki's lovely colt Berlioz - but at that time hadn't met Bugi and didn't know enough about him.. Berlioz was the friendliest colt imaginable. I visited him repeatedly as he was a pasture buddy of the little guy I did buy. My daughter was always more crazy about Berlioz than mine!
Berlioz scored overall 8.8 at his inspection and was highest scoring Old NA colt for entire country 2003. He also showed well at Devon that year and placed 4th in colts of 2003 I believe. Tiki correct me if I am wrong. I believe he is doing well under saddle now.

And in 2004, his colt Bravo was the Nationwide highest scoring Old NA foal with 8.9 overall. Bugatti continues to produce fabulous, very high scoring offspring. I want to 2nd Selah's observation about his intelligence and wonderful character which he certainly passed on to Bravo. Never a dull moment.

I think he's supposed to compete in the 2010 WEG too. I'll check on that though.

[elizabeth Callahan]

Bernie

I have a 2004 Bugatti /TB mare. She did her MPT for ISR, and was tied for top score in the US for her MPT, was top mare in the US for RPSI in 2008, and top mare on the East Coast for ISR in 2008. I ride and train her myself, she is a true ammie horse BUT she has the movement to pin in the top 5 U/S at DAD( with her ammie event rider!), as well as scoring over 7.5 in the 4 yr old FEI young horse class and is eventing at novice.

She is wonderful - easy on the ground and under saddle, calm, does anything I want, trail rides as well as jumps. I can get on her after 2 weeks off and she is just the same. No lunging, no prep work, just get on and go. Elastic, supple, and will try anything I ask. Brave over fences, and even though she is not bred to jump, I think she will easily go prelim with me (3'7)

She is one of the best horses I have bred and ridden -she is so much fun and is safe. I look forward to riding her every single time - and I have had lots of horses that I didn't feel that way about

She is only 15.3, not particularly wide, but not narrow either . Very modern sport horse type ( due to the TB influence, I'm sure)'

I am breeding another Tb mare back to him this spring - hope I can duplicate Balmoral.

[Tiki]

I've had 5 Bugatti foals so far. Berlioz was the first. He is in Florida now and looks absolutely gorgeous. So far, 3 have been put under saddle. One filly, out of my foundation TB mare is just drop dead gorgeous. She now lives in New York. Her new owner has commented over and over about her temperament and willingness to do anything asked of her. Said she doesn't have a spook in her. Her original TB mare was very difficult - took 4 hours to load. When she brought Balalaika home, the TB took to her like she'd taken to no other horse. Started following her around, and when they loaded Balalaika on the trailer the TB mare came up and walked on by herself to be with her.

Training them just about consists of putting on the saddle and bridle and riding them - they are that easy. I have a 4yo filly at home that was Champion at her 3yo Mare Materiale. NOTHING fazes her - or any of the others. I've been told by an FEI trainer that she has a perfect hind end and an incredibly elegant trot. She is now starting to round up and is showing an absolutely beautiful arched neck and just beautiful gaits. She also loves to go through the jumping chute. She will be doing her MPT this year. She is NOT for sale.

Contento's mum - Berlioz did place 4th at Devon that year. What was really interesting is that the top 4 colts in that class were all (IIRC) withing 0.4 points of each other. Any one of them could have won on that day. I've never seen a class so close.

I still have one 4yo filly I have to get started that will be for sale. She really, really takes after the Rubinstein side of the family and will make either a nice dressage horse or an incredible hunter. She LOVES the jumping chute. It's hard to keep her away from it.

I also have a genetically black 4yo colt who is the spitting image of Bugi and is ready to start and go. He has the panther gaits of his sire. He has a teeny star and a white coronet band and is really going to turn heads coming down the center line.

The filly is plain bay, but there is nothing plain about her. She was Reserve Champion at her inspection. I just LOVE the Bugattis.

[equestrianism]

A friend of mine have bred a BH-offspring which used to bee seen at Hilltop Farm website. A lovely chestnut mare out of a TB-mother with excellent conformation and movements.

[Indy-lou]

Loving hearing about Bugatti's temperament and rideability here, since I have a Bugatti foal coming this year. I used him specifically for his "thinking horse" qualities and "what do you want me to do next" enthusiasm, which believe it or not I could plainly see in his whole being just by watching the video of him under saddle at age 3 in Germany. Of course, this has been confirmed by others who have been around him. Looking at this thread, I was hoping to hear more about the physical characteristics Bugatti gives the mare. Any consistent physical traits? Long legs, short legs, bone, body, neck set: all that stuff!

[Tiki]

Well, I had 2 of my 5 out of TB mares. Very, very nice horses. Good mares, but still, improvement on the mares topline, neck and gaits. The other 3 were out of my Art Deco mare. A Colt and Site Champion - highest scoring colt in the country, a Reserve Champion filly and a gorgeous copy of Bugatti himself - all 3 beautiful and all 3 completely different from each other. Looks like one took after Bolero, 1 after Rubinstein and one after Bugatti (maybe the Donnerhall part??). At any rate, I don't think I've ever seen a bad one, or even a mediocre one, and all have been improvements on the mares.

[equestrianism]

Here's a pic of my friends horse as two year old.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/mirmik/070706/IMG_7640.jpg

[talloaks]

Bugatti Hilltop really sounds like a wondeful producer!! Think I am hooked already!! Where do the chestnut offspring come from??? are the mares chestnut??

[misita]

I have not been able to figure out where the chesnut comes from. Bravo is a dark, almost liver chesnut. Bugatti is Black and Bravos dam, Gauguin de Lully is a very dark bay.

Bravo usually throws black foals with a black mare and very dark liver chesnut with a chesnut mare. The foals below are all out of chesnut mares. Very odd.

I totally understand you being hooked on Bugatti. He's a remarkable boy. I'm hooked on him too! :winkgrin:

Just one more thing and I'll quit bragging about him but Bugatti also seems to put a lot of jump in his offspring even though he's primarily dressage lines. Bravo is a fearless jumper!

Sorry for all my bragging, I just think Bugatti Hilltop is wonderful! :)

[Tasker]

I saw Elizabeth Callahan's Bugatti mare (4 year old) go at Fair Hill's Breed Show. She was a delight - hard working, focused & very, very calm. When I talked to Elizabeth, she said that the mare has been that way from the get go...just a breeder's dream.

Sorry that I can't remember her name...but she was about 15.2-3 & grey with a chestnut base.

I would imagine that the chestnut is coming through from Donnerhall & Bergamon - his sire was chestnut (vos is chestnut) http://www.paardenfokken.nl/pedigree.php?horseid=38094

[DownYonder]

There is a good bit of chestnut color in Bugatti's pedigree. His paternal grandsire, Baryshnikov, was chestnut. Bugatti's maternal grandsire, Rubinstein I, carried the chestnut gene. And Bugatti's dam's maternal grandsire, Donnerhall, was chestnut. Bugatti could have received the chestnut recessive from either side of the family.

We are lucky to have both Bravo and his sire Bugatti in the Oldenburg stallion service auction!

http://oldenburghorse.auctionanything.com/Home.taf

[Spring]

I am happy to hear so many nice things about Bugatti. I am expecting a foal in late summer out of a G line Hanoverian mare. Her Trond son, now three, is doing so well under saddle we are really excited to see what the Bugati cross will produce. The mare is a chestnut and judging by the last post this next foal will be one as well. Color isn't important, temperament and ridelability is! Megatrond can be seen on you tube. It doesn't look like anything too special until you realise he is three and this is about his tenth time under saddle!

[Kyzteke]

I have not been able to figure out where the chesnut comes from. Bravo is a dark, almost liver chesnut. Bugatti is Black and Bravos dam, Gauguin de Lully is a very dark bay.


But wasn't Bravo's dam o/o an Ideal mare? Ideal was chestnut before he turned grey, I believe.

Very striking color.

[Tiki]

Bugatti carries black and chestnut. Black is dominant over chestnut. Chestnut is homozygous recessive. Take my Art Deco mare, Eleganz, for example, who has had on chestnut, 1 bay and 1 black foal by Bugatti.

Bugatti - black/chestnut
Eleganz - chestnut/chestnut with Agouti

1 chestnut foal (1 chestnut from sire, 1 chestnut without Agouti from dam),
1 bay foal (from Ellie's Agouti on his black),
1 black (his black over her chestnut (without Agouti)

Elizabeth's gray Balmoral was chestnut from Bugi, chestnut from the mare and gray from the mare

[misita]

But wasn't Bravo's dam o/o an Ideal mare? Ideal was chestnut before he turned grey, I believe.

Very striking color.

Bravos' dam is Gauguin's Idea ( dark bay) by Gauguin de Lully (black bay) and she is out of Isabeau/Ideal. I didn't know Ideal was chesnut before he turned gray. I've always thought of him as a gray. Well now I know where all the chesnut comes from. Baryshnikov, Donnerhall, raffinesse (Rubensteins dam), and Ideal :)

Wasn't Donnerhall a very dark liver chesnut? I wonder if that's where all the dark liver chesnuts of Bravo's offsprings is coming from.

[onqhanoverians]

I am so glad to see this as I have had my eye on Bugatti Hilltop for a couple of years. Of course, he carries the chestnut recessive and both parents must carry to produce a chestnut foal. You can do a coat test on mare to see if she carries if you for some reason do not want chestnut. The test is very reasonable and only requires a couple of hairs.

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/horse.php

Another good resource: http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

I am happy to see he is now back in US and can shipped cooled.

[equestrianism]

I have not been able to figure out where the chesnut comes from. Bravo is a dark, almost liver chesnut. Bugatti is Black and Bravos dam, Gauguin de Lully is a very dark bay.

Bravo usually throws black foals with a black mare and very dark liver chesnut with a chesnut mare. The foals below are all out of chesnut mares. Very odd.

I totally understand you being hooked on Bugatti. He's a remarkable boy. I'm hooked on him too! :winkgrin:

Just one more thing and I'll quit bragging about him but Bugatti also seems to put a lot of jump in his offspring even though he's primarily dressage lines. Bravo is a fearless jumper!

Sorry for all my bragging, I just think Bugatti Hilltop is wonderful! :)

Regarding the chestnut colour. Chagalls mother Efrodite was indead a chestnut, and so was Gauguin de Lullys' grand father Gaspari. I don't know the colour of Gasparona but her mother Singoalla was a bay and I don't know where the chestnut in her comes from.

[talloaks]

Great comments about Bugatti Hilltop, thank you all. Super photos of offspring also--thank you again. Now, how is the jump with the Bugatti offspring??? Will any of the offspring make it into the hunter ring????

[Tiki]

Rubinstein actually scored higher in jumping than in dressage in his Stallion Performance Test. In my post above, I noted that B'Elanna, who seems to take most after Rubinstein looks like she will be a VERY fancy hunter type. We couldn't keep her away from the jumps when we set up a chute - she loved it - and she was an absolute steady eddy all the way around with absolutely no change to her stride, rhythm or jump. Plus she's really pretty. She's the one that was Reserve Champion down at Chestnut Lawn to your SH.

[talloaks]

Rubinstein actually scored higher in jumping than in dressage in his Stallion Performance Test. In my post above, I noted that B'Elanna, who seems to take most after Rubinstein looks like she will be a VERY fancy hunter type. We couldn't keep her away from the jumps when we set up a chute - she loved it - and she was an absolute steady eddy all the way around with absolutely no change to her stride, rhythm or jump. Plus she's really pretty. She's the one that was Reserve Champion down at Chestnut Lawn to your SH.


Of course I remember your lovely filly!!:winkgrin: Interesting that she likes to jump even though she is not out of one of your TB mares. At least I ususally think of TB mares producing hunters. Congratulations Tiki on all your wonderful Bugatti Hilltop foals!! You have done him proud!!:D

[railmom]

Great comments about Bugatti Hilltop, thank you all. Super photos of offspring also--thank you again. Now, how is the jump with the Bugatti offspring??? Will any of the offspring make it into the hunter ring????

The gal who bought my Rascalino filly also has a Bugatti filly now three out of a TB mare. VERY PRETTY! She moves flat kneed, screams gorgeous hunter prospect. Only time will tell!

[clint]

The Bugatti stallion presented to the AHS for licensing didn't demonstrate much natural jumping talent.

[maple_brook]

We had a Bugatti mare go through her MPT at our inspection site...jumping was definitely not a highlight for her. Although to be fair, by pedigree, I would suspect it was not her mother's forte either.

[talloaks]

Knowing that the mare contributes more that 50% to the foal I would imagine that any jumping ability would come from the mare. It really isn't a problem for me and the mare I would like to breed to Bugatti Hilltop if the foal ended up being a hunter prospect. Either way the foal goes is fine and the same with the color, dark or chestnut if fine, as is colt or filly as long as the foal is healthy and correct and the foaling is uneventful!!

[misita]

I talked to Natalie at Hilltop Farm about Bugatti and she said that they are getting a lot of repeat business from the hunter breeders. Bravo is a great jumper and very enthusiastic about it. He placed 3rd, 4th, and 8th at a hunter show he did last year. Of course your right that much comes from the mare too. I think it also depends on the indiviual too. Some horses just prefer a certain sport. Bravo loves jumping and does it with gusto. But I did hear the Bugatti at the AHS inspection did not get approved because he was a poor jumper.

[Tiki]

What color is your mare Bernie?

[talloaks]

I talked to Natalie at Hilltop Farm about Bugatti and she said that they are getting a lot of repeat business from the hunter breeders. Bravo is a great jumper and very enthusiastic about it. He placed 3rd, 4th, and 8th at a hunter show he did last year. Of course your right that much comes from the mare too. I think it also depends on the indiviual too. Some horses just prefer a certain sport. Bravo loves jumping and does it with gusto.


Great news misita!!! I don't care which way my Bugatti Hilltop foal would go and am happy to hear that he does produce hunters even if his testing scores weren't that high for jumping. Remember A good horse is a good horse is a good horse!! I beleive Bugatti Hilltop produces good horses!!:D

[misita]

Please let us know if you end up using him and maybe put the baby up on COTH foals of 2010 so we can all see the little bugger!:lol:

[talloaks]

What color is your mare Bernie?


She is dark bay or brown. Her sire was chestnut with lots of white (Wertherson) and she is out of a dark TB mare. She has had 3 premium colts/foals and they all were dark, some darker than others but of course Sandro Hit doesn't carry the red gene!! Her first breeding was to Concerto Grosso and he may not have the red gene either.

So my guess would be she will have a chestnut filly with lots of white!!:lol:
Why not be really different from the dark colored boys she's had??:lol:

[selah]

The Bugatti stallion presented to the AHS for licensing didn't demonstrate much natural jumping talent.

I wasn't aware one had been presented...what mare was he out of?

[clint]

I wasn't aware one had been presented...what mare was he out of?

I don't remember and I no longer have the catalog. Maybe Michelle at Starr Vaughn will remember. It was in 2007.

[Tiki]

OK, she carries red and black (with Agouti). With SH, who is homozygous black, she could not possibly have produced a chestnut. If she is heterozygous for Agouti, i.e. does not have a 2nd copy coupled with the chestnut, then with Bugatti she could have black, bay, chestnut or possibly brown. Does she have a brown mane, tail and points or black? If black she probably couldn't produce a brown foal. If she is homozygous for Agouti, she could only produce bay or chestnut with him.

Hope that makes sense.

[talloaks]

OK, she carries red and black (with Agouti). With SH, who is homozygous black, she could not possibly have produced a chestnut. If she is heterozygous for Agouti, i.e. does not have a 2nd copy coupled with the chestnut, then with Bugatti she could have black, bay, chestnut or possibly brown. Does she have a brown mane, tail and points or black? If black she probably couldn't produce a brown foal. If she is homozygous for Agouti, she could only produce bay or chestnut with him.

Hope that makes sense.

Tiki, I refered to her as being brown or bay because she looks black but has the tan nose right now. She is very dark and has black mane and tail and legs and actually her body seems the same color of very dark or black. I guess I will have to look at her papers but I don't think she was registered as black. If she is black, what are the chances of colors? OOOPS, you already answered that question---duh. Thanks!!