Critque on training level horse please?

[lacy859]

I was wondering if you guys could give me a critique on me and my 15 yr TB. He and I exclusively showed in the 3' hunters until the past year and a half when we have been doing some dressage (and some combined tests). He is extremely lazy, somewhat clunky, and very much has a "path of least resistance" and "as less effort as possible" mentality. But he also is my forever first horse who I've had since he was 4.
I have a real problem of collapsing my body as an attempt to make him go forward-- I think that is when he hollows out and leans. Also, I really let my reins get to long.

I know videos are easier and more fun to critique, but until I get one uploaded can I get some advice on ME and him? My goal is training and maybe first level. Unfortunately, I don't get to do many lessons, so the more help I get, the better!
Thanks in advance!



http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=00FD00DF070204&po=204 cantering

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=00FD00DF070206&po=206 trotting

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=00FD00DF070199&po=199 trotting

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=00FD00DF070200&po=200 trotting

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=00FD00DF070210&po=210 cantering

[fromatox]

Wow, he can change colors?! ;)

[lacy859]

yeah, I fixed that :)

[CamdenLab]

He reminds me a tad of my guy. What is his pedigree?

[celeste08]

From looking at the pictures it looks to me like your are leaning forward a little, probably from your past as a jumper. Your legs look very good and well balanced underneath you so the base of support for you position seems quite solid. If you can just sit up a little it may make it easier for your horse to carry you and lift off his forehand a bit. Working on lateral movements, leg yeld to warm up and moving up to shoulder in may help. Alternating shoulder in and circles, shoulder in and a little lengthening on a short diagonal on which you are pointing from the shoulder in anyway are very good exercises to get him off the forehand and responding to your legs. Do not lengthen for too long or he may collapse on his forehand. Better a few strides in balance than a whole diagonal on the forehand.
But I find that in these pictures you look like a very harmonious couple. He is very handsome!
Another very simple exercise that proved very helpful with my lazy TB is to do rapid trot walk trot transitions staying just 1 or 2 strides at the walk and trot again. You can also do that in shoulder in position, it really gets the horse paying attention to you and your legs...and gets his engine going. I do believe that shoulder in is the aspirin of riding. It can fix a lot of things...and is an exercise more than a movement.

[slc2]

You need to not put your hands down and apart, and 'sit up' (look up, bringing your head up, bring shoulders back, straighten your back, push the back of your neck against your collar, push your stomach forward, push your knees down). The horse is fine.

[lacy859]

I have no idea his breeding. The person I bought him from said he was a deputy minister baby, but can't decifer his tattoo. I'm going to try to get a video this week of us and post it. Thanks for the feedback thus far!

[Icecapade]

You need to not put your hands down and apart, and 'sit up' (look up, bringing your head up, bring shoulders back, straighten your back, push the back of your neck against your collar, push your stomach forward, push your knees down). The horse is fine.

Nice... but agreed... first thing I saw were hands...

he looks good though keep it up!

[Jealoushe]

Your hands! Keep them up and together. Your horse is on his forehand, he looks long and strung out. I suggest shortening your reins a bit.

[mickeydoodle]

It looks like you were showing at the KY horse park. Linda Strine is an excellent local instructor who can help you transition to a more upright, uphill picture. You both look cute, but need more uphill balance.

[merrygoround]

Definitely, your hands need to come up , thumbs, need to be upper most with wrists gently curved, but not locked, inwards. Your elbows need to be brushing your sides, but not locked there.

You are leaning slightly forward, very common in H/J riders, therefore losing some of the influence of your seat. You also need to turn your toes forward, your ankles will learn to give:), and get off the back of your leg.

There is no "body collapse" in sending a horse forward. There is a slight pelvic tilt, combined with the use of the lower leg.

Hope you don't feel too thoroughly trashed by all this. These are very common problems encountered by H/J riders.

He appears to be tracking up well but you need some help getting him up from his forehand. :yes:

[rabicon]

Lift those hands!!! ;) You look like a lovely hunter rider btw. You will be a beautiful dressage rider with a few changes. :yes: Don't lean your turns and don't collapse or lean forward. Bring your hands up and more together and push from your seat foward while closing your thighs on him to encourage him to lift his back and push more from behind. Keep your fingers closed also. Do you know have to give a proper half halt? If you look thru my photos you will see I had the same problem with my hands as you. Coming from hunters its hard to change so many things at once, but this is about a good place for your hands (not saying I'm perfect but it will give you an idea on hands and where your body should be and how to make that seat effective) also shorten your reins a bit. ;) Good luck, how did it go at that show?

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2481074320103994293ZzXuvG

[Valentina_32926]

I was wondering if you guys could give me a critique on me and my 15 yr TB. He and I exclusively showed in the 3' hunters until the past year and a half when we have been doing some dressage (and some combined tests). He is extremely lazy, somewhat clunky, and very much has a "path of least resistance" and "as less effort as possible" mentality. But he also is my forever first horse who I've had since he was 4.
I have a real problem of collapsing my body as an attempt to make him go forward-- I think that is when he hollows out and leans. Also, I really let my reins get to long.

I know videos are easier and more fun to critique, but until I get one uploaded can I get some advice on ME and him? My goal is training and maybe first level.


You should easily be able to do Training/First level as he does use his hind end effectively (most likely the jump training which helps).

Push him forward in more (rein) contact while thinking of your elbows as springs - give and take using your elbows (on waist all the way to straightened) instead of shortening/lengthening the reins. So start in a lesson by having the trainer show you what the (current) correct rein length is for your horse. Then ALWAYS pick up that length of rein when you start riding. At first when warming up you'll probably have to straighten your elbows, but once he warms up (think forward with legs, squeeze reins then return immediately to holding reins but NOT releasing reins rather instead give about 1/2 inch with your elbows). That's a HH (Half Halt). What that does is get the horse moving forward and rebalancing him from laying on your hands (reins) to starting to shift his weight backwards. You may have to start out by doing it every stride but gradually he'll start carrying himself more and you'll be able to do it less often. Eventually you'll find that his frame has improved to the point where you'll need to shorten the reins and re-start the process.

Point is always forward first then start the HH/elbow release to get him off his forehand and working more from the haunches.

Hands should not be inside the shoulder - but apart enough that reins don't touch the shoulder. When turning there is a general thought - the steeper the turn the more Give forward to the outside rein. But be careful not to throw away the outside rein cause it's not "that much" of a give.

Look ahead, not down. Biggest thing for you now is getting the reins at the proper length and keeping them there. Once you've mastered that you can move on to the next step. Nothing glaring in your position (but we can always nit pick cause no person is ever perfect)... but if you start with the forward into correct rein length for contact and start giving with elbows and NOT fingers you'll have learned a lot and be well on your way to Training level.

Lovely horse and rider.

[lacy859]

Thanks, it does sound like my hands are the overwhelming complaint! I'm trying to be better about my hands but its really hard to fix. I have noticed though that when I have my hands low and wide and wiggle them a lot more than when I have them up and closer together.

I know someone said Linda Strine, but does anyone have any experience with dressage trainers in Lexington, KY preferably with lesson horses? Trainers who will travel to your barn?

[mickeydoodle]

Linda is the best in Lexington, in my opinion. She does not have lesson horses.

[JumpWithPanache]

Linda is great! I believe she is still traveling to barns for teaching and has never really had a lesson horse string. I spent a summer with her a while ago (she's my aunt) and she really improved my all-around ride. I was still an eventer at the time and we still keep in touch rather infrquently though. Couple years later, her concepts and explanations still make a lot more sense than some others I've heard.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Thanks, it does sound like my hands are the overwhelming complaint! I'm trying to be better about my hands but its really hard to fix.


Get a short jumping bat....put it across your hands with your thumbs on top. It is one of the best ways to help fix putting your hands too low and wide. It forces you to focus on them and carry them. Also...remember, you ride the horse from BACK to front.....I always have to make a mental note when I want to fix something....going to my hands or reins is usually the last thing I need to do.

[Windy Willow]

My first question to ask you "Why are your hands at least 16" apart and so down:) Did someone teach you to hold them like that? I see that ALL THE TIME around here and the ones that I'm talking about take "dressage" lessons "from the best"( boy are they fooled). I detest it.I even rode with someone before that told me to get the horses head down do that with my hands and wiggle them. or something wierd like that . WRONG WRONG WRONG.I didn't know a darn thing about dressage but I didnt agree with that and wasnt going to go back. I said to myself this ole foxhunter knows more than them! haha:lol:
I've found theres alot of instructors that teach that. Supposingly if your horse is green or something thats how you teach them. thats hogwash.

glad to see so many are agreeing on that on this thread.

Pretty horse!

[Petstorejunkie]

to sum up your equitation
lift your hands and bring them together, this aint yank in spank QH hunters and you are rendering yourself ineffective.
yes you really do need to open up your upper body. your collapsed upper torso and shoulder is inhibiting your horses energy from coming up and forward. Think about trying to touch the bottoms of your shoulder blades together while keeping your back tall and straight.
your horse has lots to give you. let your body get out of his way

[cu.at.x]

I like how your horse looks very relaxed through his poll. He looks to be actively seeking the bit, filling out the reins. Overall he is right at where he needs to be for training level.

Your position is pretty good, but you need to bring your whole leg about an inch back. I have the same problem, myself, from years of hunter riding and tight hips, and am slowly getting better with yoga ball work. Pilates is also helpful. Agree with those who said you need to sit back a bit. Just consciously try to think about sitting tall and proud. Don't force anything or it will make you more tense.

[DRTY.2]

I agree with bornfreenowexpensive (this exercise really helped me with my hands) and also practice riding with your hands touching so your inside hand doesn't come back further than your outside hand.

Also what celeste08 said I think would be a great help. My instructor has just started me with this exercise... and we may not always be doing a correct shoulder in (as he's not advanced enough)... but it definitely helps him bring his inside hind under him and come off the forehand. Also has improved his lengthenings a great deal (my horse is a really lazy TB).

Here's an entry to my journal after my last lesson

Had another great lesson today with Jeannie. We started with three 10m circles at walk down the long side of the school, then some leg yielding and shoulder-in. We picked up the trot, did a couple of figures of eight, then some 10m loops on each rein. We then halted and took my stirrups away. We did some shoulder-in at trot and he became much lighter in front and started to carry himself. We did an exercise of doing shoulder-in down the long side of the school, doing a 20m circle at either A or C then picking up the canter. We got one nice transition on the left rein of him not lifting his head in the transition. He is really starting to carry himself in walk and trot now. To try to get the same at canter we thought “shoulder-in” down the long side. It was sort of working but at times he would fall back to a trot or speed up. We got a couple of not so bad ones on each rein. It felt so good him finally carrying himself and not using my hands for support. I could finally “let go” of the inside rein (I was having trouble with this as he was also hanging on to the inside rein as well).