Post Foaling Worming question

[Blonde Filly]

OK the most recent studies said to worm right after your mare foals to help with the foal scours. I had done this for a few years now and never thought too much of it and it seemed the scours were less with the foals. But last yaer I had a mare post foaling who was wormed at 24 hours post foaling and she has some bleeding issues after that for a few days. She was fine in the end, but it worried me to death wondering if the bleeding complications might lead to something worst and long term. She was fine and was bred back on her 30 day heat and got infoal with no problems. I am now very scared to worm right after foaling after learning that recently they have found that a horse recently wormed does have more issues with blood cloting like it should and to never geld a horse within 5 days of a recent worming. They found less problems with the ivermectin wormer than the others, but there are still risk associated with blood cloting and worming.

So the question is..how soon is it safe to worm post foaling? 2,3, 4, 5, 6, ect? Also consider if you were going to breed on the foal heat would you differ in what day you think is safe to worm post foaling? If you are breeding on the 30 day you could wait much longer for worming, but when considering foal heat breedings is what I'm looking for. TIA :)

[Faiths CremelloWB]

I worm with Ivermectin within 24 hours after foaling. It has helped a lot with the scours so I am going to continue to use that protocol. I guess there are possible complications/side effects with most all meds/chemicals we give horses. So each person has to do what is right for them and their circumstances.

[Hillside H Ranch]

I haven't seen any of that research in any of the journals that we receive. However, if that is the case then I would still not change my deworming protocl (post-foaling) at all. I imagine that if that research is accurate that you are still talking about a teensy, tiny risk (with the actual foaling of the mare being a much, much, MUCH larger risk :)). I have dewormed literally hundreds of mares post-foaling and never had a complication that could be attributed to the deworming. IMHO the risk of having a parasite laden foal are greater than the risk of not clotting due to deworming.

[rideagoldenpony]

I have wormed within 24 hours post foaling for several years now. I have not had any problems whatsoever.

My vet explained to me that the foal scours are in reaction to the first flush of hatching parasites in the gut -- which made me feel all the more adamant about having that as part of our post foaling routine.

[Blonde Filly]

Thanks for the 3 replies! But they are not answering my question at all!!!!

I too wormed with ivermectin for years post foaling at 24 hours with no problems, but after having my Vet warn me of the problems of the worming in relation to clotting it has me concerned enough to not do it at 24 hours now. I belive, he found this out at one of the Vet siminars recently. And I would still be worming 24 hours post foaling as well too..if I did not have a mare that bleed for several days after getting wormer at 24 hours post foaling..so thanks..but not answering my question. :confused:

[Hillside H Ranch]

So what is the question? How soon can you safely deworm a mare post-foaling? I believe within the first 24 hours IS safe; I usually do it immediately post foaling. Same for breeding on foal heat.

[amdfarm]

We do things a bit differently I guess. We de-worm and vaccinate at least a month prior to foaling. And we don't de-worm the mares again until around weaning time. We give probios right after foaling to the mares and the foals and it's prevented the foal scours for many years now.

If I were de-worming a mare that has issues w/ de-wormer, I'd use our schedule and see if that works. Or just wait to de-worm her after she's checked in foal after her foal heat.... so 45-50 days after foaling. If she's on a regular schedule otherwise, a month or so isn't going to make a difference I don't think and use the probios for scours.

My two cents.

[Equilibrium]

BF,

I started worming within 3 days prior to foaling or as close as I could guess! Reason being, we all know mares are cramping and uncomfy after foaling so why annoy her a wormer at that time. Not vet proven, just something I decided to do. At any rate, I haven't had any scours bar one filly and from a mare whose foals always have scours for a couple days regardless of when I worm.

Hope this helps,
Terri

[Amoroso]

BF - there are a heap of reasons that could account for your mare bleeding post foaling, I wouldn't automatically assume that it was the wormer.

[Equine Reproduction]

OK the most recent studies said to worm right after your mare foals to help with the foal scours.

De-worming with Ivermectin serves a dual function - It helps insure the foal does not receive stronglyes westeris (milk worms) through the mare's milk and reduces the incidence of foal scours.

I am now very scared to worm right after foaling after learning that recently they have found that a horse recently wormed does have more issues with blood cloting like it should and to never geld a horse within 5 days of a recent worming. They found less problems with the ivermectin wormer than the others, but there are still risk associated with blood cloting and worming.

Who found that there was issues? And, was there any research done on it? As others have noted, there will always be risks associated with anything you do, but whether or not there is a direct correlation due to the Ivermectin or other factors, without research, there is absolutely no way to know what the real culprit is/was.

So the question is..how soon is it safe to worm post foaling? 2,3, 4, 5, 6, ect? Also consider if you were going to breed on the foal heat would you differ in what day you think is safe to worm post foaling? If you are breeding on the 30 day you could wait much longer for worming, but when considering foal heat breedings is what I'm looking for. TIA :)

For the maximum effect, the de-worming with Ivermectin should be done within 12 hours of foaling. If you wish to take advantage of that benefit, I would be inclined to continuing following that protocol unless advised otherwise by your veterinarian.

Hope that helps!

Kathy St. Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[JB]

We do things a bit differently I guess. We de-worm and vaccinate at least a month prior to foaling. And we don't de-worm the mares again until around weaning time.
I just have to ask - why? That means the mare isn't dewormed for 5-7 months at least :confused: Do you deworm the foals in that timeframe? Because surely the little tyke is sampling mom's manure, if not the manure of any other horses's manure he finds. What is the rest of your parasite management program?

[Tango14]

Or just wait to de-worm her after she's checked in foal after her foal heat.... so 45-50 days after foaling. If she's on a regular schedule otherwise, a month or so isn't going to make a difference I don't think and use the probios for scours.

My two cents.

I don't deworm, vaccinate or give the mares anything extra during the first trimester (3.5 months) of pregnancy. Some horses show colic [symptoms] from worming and this could cause them to lose the foal.

I would also be concerned that deworming {and vaccinating}in the first trimester could adversely affect the foal.

I deworm the mare again midterm and then again within 12 hours of foaling with an Ivermectin based product. Foals are dewormed once a month from birth until 6 months and then they go onto the quarterly schedule.

[amdfarm]

I just have to ask - why? That means the mare isn't dewormed for 5-7 months at least :confused: Do you deworm the foals in that timeframe? Because surely the little tyke is sampling mom's manure, if not the manure of any other horses's manure he finds. What is the rest of your parasite management program?

It's just how we've done it for many years now and we have healthy foals and mares. Yes, the foals are dewormed prior to weaning, as well. We rotate Panacur and Ivermectin. And we wean at 4 months, so the mares aren't going that long w/out being dewormed. Parasite mgmt involves rotating pastures, cleaning the dry lots and the rotating I mentioned and quarterly after 1 year of age. Last summer I had fecals ran and they came back clean. I was happy.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Tango 14... I've heard of others doing that, as well. We've not had any problems. My friends have up to 10 foals a year and I have 4 on average.

Happy foaling everyone!

[Home Again Farm]

So what is the question? How soon can you safely deworm a mare post-foaling? I believe within the first 24 hours IS safe; I usually do it immediately post foaling.

Ditto. I worm within 12 hours of foaling. Have done so since 1996 with zero problems. :yes:

[JB]

It's just how we've done it for many years now and we have healthy foals and mares. Yes, the foals are dewormed prior to weaning, as well. We rotate Panacur and Ivermectin. And we wean at 4 months, so the mares aren't going that long w/out being dewormed. Parasite mgmt involves rotating pastures, cleaning the dry lots and the rotating I mentioned and quarterly after 1 year of age. Last summer I had fecals ran and they came back clean. I was happy.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


thank you - I was not intending to blast you, was just really curious how you managed to not deworm for that length of time. This just goes to show that environmental management is really, really important if you choose to not use chemicals for periods of time :)

[amdfarm]

thank you - I was not intending to blast you, was just really curious how you managed to not deworm for that length of time. This just goes to show that environmental management is really, really important if you choose to not use chemicals for periods of time :)

You're welcome. I was honored to even have a question asked by you, as I enjoy your posts very much. :) Didn't think it was blasting me at all. Yes, it sure is.

[JB]

:o:o:o Thank you :)

I LOVE hearing stories of people managing to successfully not use chemicals for some period of time. At least on their farms, resistance will be sllooooowwww to show up, if ever, unless they bring in horses who already carry resistant parasites.

[Sunnydays]

I've always wormed right after foaling. When my vet was doing pre-foaling shots this week on one mare, he suggested trying to worm in last 48 hours pre-foaling (which is easier said than done;)) as he said this would mean there would be no chance of strongyles influencing the foal's 1st milk/colustrum.
Maybe I'll just do as soon as I see pin-wax.

[amdfarm]

:o:o:o Thank you :)

I LOVE hearing stories of people managing to successfully not use chemicals for some period of time. At least on their farms, resistance will be sllooooowwww to show up, if ever, unless they bring in horses who already carry resistant parasites.

You're welcome! :)

That's just it, not a lot of our stock ever leave the farms, aside from the handful of show horses/ponies or for trail riding. New horses are hardly ever brought in, other than the new foals, which don't count. We're often in the less is more crowd.