Should I Just Get a Wintec Pro???

[CamdenLab]

I'm in the market for a dressage saddle and would love some suggestions, under $1,000.

The Horse:

16h, TB gelding, 1150 lbs, Irish-bred (substantial bone), off work for a while, never in dressage, I expect him to muscle-up, he does have a good shoulder even now. My close contact is a Collegiate Diploma w/ the CAIR and he is in the Medium Wide. I bought this saddle new and do not ever want to buy a new saddle ever again! What a pain to break in and I think he didn't like breaking it in on his end, either.

The Rider:

5'4" tall, not leggy (wear a petite or short in pants/jeans), stocky, pear-shaped, need to lose 30 lbs. Prefer a narrow twist. I'm one of those riders who has the deep bend in the lower back (the one that makes the butt stick out).

A few friends have suggested the Wintec Pro, at least for now, until he develops (and I develop!) and then when I figure out what his body is going to do, upgrade. Other friends have not suggested the Wintec Pro because they didn't like the position it put them in and they don't like synthetic (they were happy to try to sell me their old $2500 saddles they bought when they were first starting out, though!).

We have three or four tack shops within an easy drive with consignment saddles. I think all will let you test them out.

[Danged Arab]

Have you tried the Wintec Isabel? They list for about $1200 but most places sell them for $995 or so. It is THE GREATEST saddle! It has a much deeper seat (which I like) and puts the rider in a much much better position than the Pro. It comes with or without CAIR and has the exchangeable gullet, so if your horse changes shape, you can still keep the saddle. :)

[LisaO]

I love my Wintec Pro - it has held up very well with a lot of use and is super comfy for fairly long legged me. I like the fact that it's not quite as deep as the Isabel. I sold the Isabel because I just couldn't move in it at all. I sold it to a girl who usually used a 16.5 and this one was a 17.5. She loved it! Perhaps if you go with the Isabel, you might want to size up.

[arbeegirl]

My vote is for the Pro. I bought one when I started my gelding and love it. I do not ride in it anymore but I keep just because I like it and I can fit it to different horses. I felt in the Isabel like I could not move or feel my horse under me. The Pro is more of a close contact feel.

[FLeckenAwesome]

I LOVED my pro... however, my horse did not love the Cair panels, so I had it reflocked with wool. That worked until recently... but I did ride in it for 4 years so... :) I really liked my position in it.

And it's sooo easy to care for!

[indyblue]

I have the same body shape as you but I am 5FT3.I had a Wintec Isabel and loved it.It put me in a great position and was so comfortable.I had Cair panels and sold it because of this as they really didnt suit my horse.I would buy a flocked one if I was to get another Isabel.

[fatorangehorse]

Maybe a little more but a very correct reasonably priced saddle. There are a few in my barn, and I like riding in them better than many of the higher priced saddles.

[FootPerfect]

A friend got the Wintec Isabel new for around $750 and have heard great reviews from people (even a professional who uses it).

I have the Bates Caprilli line of saddles and love them. I say go for it!

[oldenmare]

Horse and I both hated the Pro. Had a wintec Isabel - was much better fit for horses, myself - and easier to maintain correct position.

Felt that the twist on the Pro was wider than what I found comfortable - never could get my leg to drape correctly (and I have fairly long legs for my height). Never could get it to fit any of my horses correctly.

I like the W-Isa. for young horses in that its easier to adjust than a regular saddle, plus if the horse kills it, well, it wasn't my "good" saddle, either! My seat and leg felt much more natural than in the Pro.

BUT BUT BUT with all young horses - making sure the saddle is comfortable to them is the KEY to a positive training experience. If you can take saddles out on trial - that's what I would recommend doing until you find the right one (fit for both of you & within price range).

And, yeah, friends will get you every time with their used saddles (which is why I don't buy/sell to majority of my "friends").

[islandrider]

I just sold my expensive treeless and went back to wintec. Got a nearly brand new Wintec Pro for under 400$ on tacktrader! Rode in it 2x before breaking my leg.. Not to hijack this thread, but for you whom CAIR didn't work, how did you know it didn't work? And how much was it to stuff with wool?

[FLeckenAwesome]

Fleck was sore in his lower back...right where the back of the saddle was sitting. The saddle fitter felt it was the Cair panels...the edges were bugging him. So... I paid $300 to reflock it with wool and Fleck felt much better. However, now...something is bothering his back again and he changed shape a bit and it doesn't really fit him anymore.

So I suppose I could have been swindled....but Fleck did seem sore in the area and did improve once it was reflocked. ???? And now...he's definitely more uncomfy in the wintec pro jump (which actually fits him like a dream) and even the wintec wool dressage than in my friends stubben and my new jump saddle.

:)

[Arizona DQ]

I love my Pro! It does not have the CAIR panels, but the wool flocked. I bought it used for about $500. I do not like too deep a saddle as I feel very restricted and cannot move as freely. But everyone has different needs. I love the synthetic as it is soo easy to care for! :winkgrin:
I was a leather snob :no: as my other dressage saddle is a Passier Baum, but I am now a convert for sure!

[craz4crtrs]

I just got a used Wintec Pro late last fall. I've only been able to ride in it a few times, but I have LOVED those few times. I have an uber wide fjordX, but he has a sloped shoulder. It fits him great. I don't get the roll I had with my Duett Largo.

[Austin Rider]

The Wintec Pro is a good saddle. Might not be wide enough for your guy, though, even with interchangeable gullets. Mine tends to fit medium to narrow horses pretty well, but not wider horses. Personally, I prefer the flocked panels...not crazy about CAIR.

[pony grandma]

The differences for individuals amazes me. My daughter sat in an Isabel and hated it right away. It spread her hips wrong for her body type.

She loves the Pro model. With the less deep seat she can use it for training young horses and it is much easier to post w/out hurting herself ;) None of our horses (knock on wood) seem to have any issues with the Cair system.

Some people feel like they need a saddle that they can move their seat bones in and that affects their choices. So some don't like the stickiness of the fabric seat. And then some love it. In hotter climates the saddles don't breathe the same on the horse's back as leather ones. We haven't had that issue either where we live. For the price I think that it is a hard working good general use saddle, esp if you just need one as a saddle for one phase like eventing, or you are planning to upgrade later.

Just try, ride and learn what works for you.

[Kairoshorses]

I love my pro! I got it off ebay years ago (pre-Cair panels) and I've used it on a number of different horses. I got the gullets on ebay, too!:)

[CamdenLab]

I sat in a bunch of saddles yesterday. I found that for my body type, the super deep seats were not only uncomfortable, but put me in a bad position. I tend to ride on my crotch a bit with my lower back hollowed out and the deep seats really wanted me just like that! Also, I found the newer dressage saddles to be so couch-like. I'm so used to riding in a close contact.

Many of the other saddles had flaps that were too long for me, so that was another difficulty.

There were only two saddles I felt comfortable in and that put me in a good position. One was the Wintec Pro and stupid me, I didn't write down the other. It was an older saddle, a popular brand, maybe a Stubben?

My thighs are a bit on the, um, large side, so I had to use an 18 inch in the Wintec to get the correct leg position.

So, I'm thinking about trying the Wintec and if I like it, getting it. I can always upgrade later and this saddle would be good for trails, beach, etc. if I don't want to take my nicer saddles out into the woods or harsh elements.

[FLeckenAwesome]

You know... I've found that the deeper seats drive me batty too. Apparently my badonka donk really doesn't fit into them... it pushes me onto my crotch also. Which is why I hated the isabella but loved the pro. And... camden... it may very well have been a stubben. I rode in my friends stubben romanus and LOVED IT!! And then rode in a friends Neiderscuss and although it fit my horse well, I could not fit my ghetto booty in it!

So.. I think the older stuebbens tend to be a bit flatter/less deep, which works well for me :)

[in_the_zone]

Nothing wrong with a Wintec! I asked my saddle fitter about them and he actually said he likes them a lot. My friend has a Wintec Pro and bought the larger thigh blocks and it feels pretty awesome. I owned a Pro in the past and it did me well. The Isabells put you in a position, while the Pros are more of a freer and flatter seat. The twist in the Isabell is medium and the twist in the Pro is narrow. I don't see how anyone can say they don't like the position the Pro puts you in, because it doesn't put you anywhere. You sit in it, there's no twist in the way, and you can hang your legs down however you like. I now own the Close Contact and that's pretty darned nice. You can get awesome package deals on new Wintecs on ebay too.

[petitefilly]

Answering your question: Yes.

Will it be your last saddle? No. You will not find perfection in it, it will bounce more than you like and eventually you will not like it. JMHO!!!

I have seen over the years an abundance of people who love this saddle for about a year and then sell it. I'm not sure why the light bulb moment makes this happen, but I know it does happen. <?> Of course, YMMV!

[shall]

If you sight down the underside of both the Pro and Isabell, there are a couple differences. The Isabell has a wider channel than the Pro, which worked better for my horse. He's a 15 2 Lot of bone Arabian with a couch back. If you don't put the big blocks in the Isabell, the fit for the rider is very similiar. I'm also 5' 4". I loved the Pro for general hacking - can even trail ride and jump in it pretty comfortably, but my boy was much happier in the Isabell - more ready to pay attention to work. I have the Cair panels in mine still and I keep coming up with reasons to keep them there - new horse, winter layoff, and that list goes on...

[marshmallow!]

Karl Niedersuss (not sure on spelling) saddles are wonderful and pretty cheap compared to other higher end saddles esp if you can get one used. They're extremely comfortable and some of them have a shorter flap. They only come in smaller seat sizes but are pretty open and still manage to somehow feel quite roomy. I find they work well with baroque horses with wide withers - lots of room in front. I have a Symphonie that I bought used that I have been riding in every day for years and it still looks the same as when I got it. Wait, no, that reminds me, there is some stitching that is starting to come out that needs to be repaired! It's probably my favorite saddle I've ever ridden in, and for comparison I'm 5'2". The mare I bought it for has sadly expanded beyond its reach so I'll be in the market for an extra wide someday :) But until then...
enter Wintec Isabelle. I was snobby about Wintecs at first but they're actually quite nice and I'm surprised how many horses they will fit. I've ridden regularly in a Pro and an Isabelle and like both of them. Plus you can't beat the low maintenance :) The synthetic stirrup leathers are kind of a pain.

Personally not a fan of the CAIR panels and wish there was still an option for wool in the Wintecs. I've never had a horse go sore from them but I just don't like the idea of a) hard air instead of wool that gives and conforms, and b) the potential of one of them slowly (or suddenly with a pop!) deflating. Didn't know they could be reflocked with wool, glad I read that! Thanks!

[NCSaddleFitter]

You actually can still get both the Wintec Pro and the Isabelle with flocked panels. It takes a few weeks longer, but you won't have to pay someone to convert it. We've ordered quite a few of them.

[mjmvet]

I've never heard of one having the CAIR panel fail. I love my Wintec Pro - its very close contact. lt won't fit every horse just because you can change the gullet plate though - the tree shape still has to fit your shape horse. But if it does, its a REALLY nice saddle. People pooh-pooh the synthetic material, but its a really well balanced saddle. I use single layer stirrup leathers with it, and couldn't be happier. I've had it for 6 years, and it doesn't show much wear at all. I didn't like the Isabell - I'm not fond of the idea of being 'put' in a position, and felt claustrophobic in it.

[jenm]

Answering your question: Yes.

Will it be your last saddle? No. You will not find perfection in it, it will bounce more than you like and eventually you will not like it. JMHO!!!

I have seen over the years an abundance of people who love this saddle for about a year and then sell it. I'm not sure why the light bulb moment makes this happen, but I know it does happen. <?> Of course, YMMV!

Good post, and I agree with you. I bought a Wintec Pro reluctantly because believe it or not, it was the only saddle at the time that fit my mare perfectly. ( This was after she had a surprise baby and had not been worked for a few months...). I liked the fact that it had the CAIR panels so we could adjust it as her back changed. I had planned on spending over 1K for a saddle and was pleasantly surprised that the best fit for her was only about $500.00.

Is it our forever saddle? No. However, it has been a good saddle for us and we are both comfortable in it for now. I love the fact it can get rained on and I don't panic and of course, as others have said, it's so darn easy to take care of. I don't use a Wintec girth or leathers, I upgraded to nice leather for both.

As we both get better, I will look into getting a different saddle, but it has proven to be a great transition saddle for us.

Our other saddle is a Stuebben AP, and my preference is to ride in the Wintec. Go figure.

[cu.at.x]

I recently bought an Isabell. Although I'm not crazy about it (I'm a sucker for nice leather saddles), it fit my budget, put me in the correct position, and the gullet change system was a must because the horse I'm riding needs a saddle that will "grow" with him. I rode in a Pro a few years ago and can attest that the Isabell is a much better made saddle: it puts the leg back where it needs to be and supports the upright dressage seat better than the Pro, which in my recollection pitched me forward.

[suzyq]

I just bought an isabel and I love it. I did go up 1/2 size. I don't feel constricted at all, but I feel like it fits my particular shape and makes it easy to sit correctly. I am 5'7, 165, wide hips but not so long legs and got an 18 if that helps any. I have ridden in stuebens, countys, otto schumachers, kiefers and like this one better than all of those (for me).

[Vesper Sparrow]

I have had a Wintec 500 with CAIR (it is the "pleather" version of the Pro, I believe) for a couple of years and it is quite acceptable. I bought a County for my young man, but my old girl prefers the Wintec. The County puts me in a better position for dressage and makes everything that much easier but I do find the Wintec versatile and very comfortable.