How much are you willing to pay...

[HFSH]

per ride in a clinic situation. :D

I have the opportunity to clinic with a well known rider/trainer. I had the opportunity to audit a clinic a few years ago and would feel comfortable riding with this person. I've given the organizer my limit on what I feel I can/will spend. Any more and I just couldn't justify it as I don't ride at the highest levels. In fact, I will probably take my 4yo mare who is just been started (clinic would be early summer), but who is a dream to ride.

So what is your top dollar you are willing to spend per ride in a clinic situation?

[mickeydoodle]

I spent $500 to clinic with Ulla Salzgaber- worth every penny, one of the best teachers I have ever had.

[CapitolDesign]

Average BNTer clinics are $250ish. 3 day clinic, 1 ride a day.

$750 or $800, not including stabling.

I don't think I should have thought that out :eek:

[Dussel]

Yep, Thats the going rate for someone that is big! I just did a clinic with and O judge from Holland she was $200.00 a ride. I thought that was not bad. I have gone up to $275.00 a ride. I always do two rides. They just get to know you the first day. You will work on more the next day. I would never do just a one day clinic when it is someone of international talent.
Just my way.
Dussel

[Perfect Pony]

I am struggling with this right now. What do you do if the facility owner and organizer is tacking on up to $50 per ride?

I feel a really good trainer that has trained and shown horses at all levels and has a good reputation as a clinician is worth $100-$125/hour. A really big name trainer who has international level experience both as a trainer and instructor is worth about $175-$225/hour.

To tack on $50+ and a free ride for yourself as the organizer is too much IMO.

[kahjul]

I have paid up to 300 a ride, but the average around here is 200. I fully expect the organizer to tack whatever is needed to cover her costs, time, etc onto each ride so that she can get at least 1 free ride. 50 sounds high, but... with air fare, etc, you never know. For me it's important to know if it's a 1 time deal. I'm not as likely to fork out the money for that, I'll just audit. But if I know someone is coming quarterly or more, I'll try them.

[cuatx67]

Perfect Pony - It is a lot of work scheduling and hosting a BNT clinic. I'm so grateful when someone takes on this task that not only do I not mind the organizer getting something for their effort, I think it's right that they should.

[merrygoround]

I've gone $200, for 1/2 hour with a BNT, what the organizer put on, I have no idea.
I did two days. :sigh:

[joiedevie99]

I agree with the two posters above. The organizer puts in a lot of time and effort scheduling, picking up at the airport, sometimes feeding and housing, coordinating stabling, sometimes finding a facility, etc. I think a free ride is entirely fair. Also, some of that money may go to compensate the facility owner for use of the arenas, stalls etc.

[atlatl]

I am struggling with this right now. What do you do if the facility owner and organizer is tacking on up to $50 per ride?

...

To tack on $50+ and a free ride for yourself as the organizer is too much IMO.

Well, then don't ride in the clinic this time and offer to organize it yourself the next time. As mentioned above, I think you'll quickly see how much work it is. After organizing many clinics, I'm more than happy to pay someone else to do it.

[Perfect Pony]

I agree with the two posters above. The organizer puts in a lot of time and effort scheduling, picking up at the airport, sometimes feeding and housing, coordinating stabling, sometimes finding a facility, etc. I think a free ride is entirely fair. Also, some of that money may go to compensate the facility owner for use of the arenas, stalls etc.

And what if they aren't doing any of the above? What if they are the BO and taking a large ring fee AND enough for a free ride, and the clinician is fairly local and driving themselves in?

I have no problem with someone taking a little for themselves. I am talking about the clinics at my facility being consistantly $50+ more per ride for a clinician than at other facilities (for the same clinican).

I don't mind a ring fee OR a free ride. But to chrge a $20 ring fee for yourself AND a free ride is too much IMO. If I know I am being price gouged I am not going to ride.

[A Horse of Course]

But how do you know you're being price gouged with that? One has to cover their costs and make a profit.
Maybe the other barns charging less aren't making much of a profit, if at all, that doesn't make it wrong for someone else to figure the amount they need to charge to make a decent profit.
In general, a lot of barns seem to barely break even. If they started to actually charge the amount they would need in order to make a profit, I think a lot of people would croak. (That's not including the top/elite barns who certainly do charge what they need.)

Playing devil's advocate...

[Dussel]

PP, Don't ride then. If they are close to you go to them. You know you have a choice.
Dussel

[mbm]

i would find it very hard to justify over $100 per ride. I pay $65/ride right now for my extremely qualified FEI trainer.... and considering my goals, my talent, my horses' talent - it just would seemd like a gigantic waste of $$$$.

better to pay for extra lessons with my regular trainer than throw $$$$$ for something my regular trainer is teaching me only being delivered from a BNT or a RBNT.

now, if i were wanting to compete nationally or internationally and wanted to learn to be competitive in that arena - , or if i didnt have access to a high quality trainer - maybe i would spend +$100/ride.

personally for the most part - i think the whole clinic thing is a money making racket if you are the average ammie schulping around with no national/international goals.

ps - yup i have even organized clinics in the past :)

[Dressage Art]

I pay $300 per lesson with Arthur Kottas, I ride 3 days with him. Hands down the BEST money I ever spend on dressage instruction. He can be tough, but he really understands horses and he really cares and loves horses. I have to sell a lot of my artworks, but what I get out from his 3 day clinic probably equals about ½ a year with a regular local trainer.

I think his air ticket costs about $4K + hotel for 5 days + restaurants + car rental ... I'm not sure how much he gets himself after all of the expenses are paid.

Auditing him is $25 per ride now. He is in N. Ca this week.

[Arizona DQ]

Since I am one of those Ammies who has no international aspirations, I would rather audit with a BNT than ride (unless it were Jane Savoie :winkgrin:). I am currently paying about $70 to ride in a clinic with a dressage judge and feel it is well worth it as she comes to our barn on a monthly basis during the winter months. But again, I would be wasting money and the BNT's time to ride with someone who is FEI level.

Setting up clinics are a PITA! :no: Been there am still doing it.

[HFSH]

Auditing him is $25 per ride now. He is in N. Ca this week.

$25 PER RIDE to audit? So if you watched 8 rides in a day you have to pay $200? :eek:

[patch work farm]

Wow, just shocked to see those prices in Sonoma County! Hard to believe our prices on the east coast are that much higher. I pay my trainer $100 per lesson and clinics usually start at $175.

[Kaluna]

I often draw the line at about $200/ride and try to take at least 2 rides. But I can make exceptions for good instructors. But not all BNTs are very good instructors.

I believe that many clinicians and even some barn owners charge what they can get. Since dressage comprises of many people with a significant disposable income, it is easy for people to ask for excessive fees and get them. It also seems that with the current economy, many more BNTs are offering themselves for clinics so they can maintain what is usually a very healthy bank account. Personally, I think some of the clinician fees are excessive and cater to the minority that can afford them. It is no wonder that dressage at the lower levels often suffers from quality instructors/instruction. I understand that this is how business works but I question the ability of these same BNTs to sit on legislative committees in non-profit governing bodies (i.e. USEF, USDF,etc.). But I digress.

I have organized clinics with BNTs, and do not believe the effort is worth $400-500 of labor. I might expect a reduction in my ride fees or exclusive dinners/lunches with the BNT but do not expect the other riders to completely foot my bill.

[mbm]

Wow, just shocked to see those prices in Sonoma County! Hard to believe our prices on the east coast are that much higher. I pay my trainer $100 per lesson and clinics usually start at $175.

i think my trainer is an anomaly- most of the other trainers i have worked with charged 75-100/lesson.

but i am grateful that my trainer doesn't cost that much - it means can afford more lessons each month.

[ewells]

I think it depends on what level you and your horse are working at if you are at the lower levels it is tough to justify paying 200+ for rides with an international or FEI clinician you should probable take the 200 and get more lessons with your regular trainer. If you are trying for the upper levels then It may be worth it to pay the big money in order to improve or learn new movements. Still I believe that if it is a one time thing it is probable not worth it as you will not be able to work with that clinician again so I would not do it in that situation.
I have to be carefull when considering riding with a clinician because some may have compleatley different training methods than I like in which case I am waisting my money which I cannot afford to do. I always watch the clinician 1st before agreeing to participate. I have paid $135 per lesson taking 2 over the weekend.
So does anyone ealses Husband figure out how much the lesson fee breaks down into $$/min. That can look pretty bad in a 45min or 30min lesson. ;)

[Cowgirl]

I have organized clinics with a BNT for three years now. Because the BNT is coming from half the country away, and because I have to put him in a hotel (he doesn't stay in people's homes) and feed him, and pay a use fee for the arena (the facility owner will either charge a haul in fee or a daily fee for the arena use, it works out better for us with the daily charge), and provide lunch because the facility is fairly remote, I break even at $200/ride for ten rides per day and pay for my own rides. If I can't fill the clinic, I end up paying more than everyone else. After three years, I think I deserve at least one free ride for all the work, the time and the fact that people who ride in clinics are demanding about ride times, etc., the risk of not breaking even, etc. In other parts of the country, they get $250 per ride for this particular BNT, but I don't think my area can support that so I sponsor it. Generally, around here, clinics are $175 per ride plus stabling and/or haul in fee (so, really, around $190 to $205 per ride) and are usually two to three days. In those cases, however, the BNT is staying in someone's house, not a hotel, and perhaps the facility is donating the arena use. I am riding in a clinic in April with a different BNT and paying $200 per ride for the ride fee and the stabling.

If the organizer can get a free ride out of it, they deserve it. Really, the amount of hassle and time it takes to put one of these together is more than deserving of a free ride. As far as the arena use fees go/ or haul in fees, again the farm owner deserves a fee for shutting down the use of their facility for the day. Ours goes to the trouble of doing a deep clean of the facility the day before, specially setting up a seating area for the clinic, dragging the arena several times and putting up with people's crap the day of, and then cleaning up afterwards. I hardly think they are getting paid enough for it. It's a labor of love. Mine charges for stabling on top of the arena use fee and I still don't think they are taking advantage. If they charge $30 per night for stabling and use two bags of shavings in the stall ($15), clean the stall and feed the horses, they are not making any money off the deal.

If you don't like the fees, don't ride, audit. We used to charge $15 per day for auditors, since we provide coffee, tea, cola, water, snacks and lunch, cleaned the area and set up for them, as well as provided a clean bathroom, etc., but got too many complaints over the fact that we don't have a sound system (LOL!) and use the earbud system for the riders. So we stopped allowing auditors. Simple as that.

[Carnelian]

I rarely pay more than $150 a ride for a BNT clinic. I have two clinicians I see on a regular basis at $75 a ride for clinics (less when I trailer in to one of the trainers) plus my weekly instructor. They challenge me so much that I really don't see a need to pay for BNTs. I'm just going First/Second with Third lvl lateral work. Once I progress up the levels I'm sure I'll need more perspective. Right now I spend $150 a month on clinics+my regular lessons. I think it's better to see someone on a regular basis and am fortunate to have regular clinician visits. I've never had an epiphany at a high-dollar clinic, and would rather spend my $$ with my regulars if they keep me progressing.

[amm2cd]

I think it really depends on what level you are consistantly riding and training. At the barn where i boarded when home for christmas, there were two clinics: one for $200 per ride and one for $65 per ride. The people who i saw ride in both got (suprise!) the same advice from both trainers.
Unless you are far beyond the capabilities of the moderatly priced trainers, why not support them?
Then again if an accent or the name is what really matters to you, then spend the money. There's a reason that horses are a 'luxury' item. :D