Does look like a scam?

[NJRider]

Maybe I am being extra paranoid, I do know the scammers are getting more elaborate and literate! I did e-mail to ask for more clarification.
Here is the reply after I sent photos of a saddle for sale. Even if they pay with Pay Pal, I am still a little worried. Should I be?! They did not ask any questions about the item or for more photos. They have a Yahoo address.


Thanks for the quick reply. I would like to purchase
your saddle. Is the best way through paypal? If you
send along payment details, I can do this today.

For shipping, could the saddle be packed extra well?
I will pay for any additional charges (just let me
know the cost.) On your end, the saddle will be
shipped to a US address in Virgina, but since I live
overseas, it will continue on through a diplomatic
pouch to Africa. I want to make as sure as possible
that it doesn't get damaged along the way.

One last question: does the saddle still have a
cover?

[Koko]

Sounds somewhat "scammy". Can't quite figure out the angle on it, however. Just make sure that you receive payment and it has cleared your bank before you ship. If they ask you to pay for shipping/courier, etc. on their behalf, and they will then reimburse you...you'll know its a scam.

[carovet]

i would suspect a scam too.

someone posted something similar not too long ago that ended up being a scam that was already being investigated.

no guarantees with paypal if overseas i think.....

[NJRider]

Yes, that is what I wondered. It is not as BLATANT as a lot of the scammers but I do wonder about the lack of protection from Pay Pal. Again, the lack of specific questions.... seemingly wanting to buy based 100% on the info in ad and the few photos.
I asked her for more clarification, so am anxiously waiting for her response!

Also- what the heck is a "Diplomatic Pouch"??? That is probably the biggest tip off to a possible scam.

[FriesianX]

Well, the good news - you don't have to ship anything overseas! I think if the money actually hits your PayPal account, give it a few days (I'd probably hold it a full week) to make sure nothing is "reversed" or goes "wonky", then pack the saddle up, send it with Delivery Conformation and insurance.

Good luck - and let us know how it goes. So many scams these days, it is kind of sad...

[NJRider]

Yes, it is a shame that with all the stupid scammers, that you have to be paranoid! She sent me a snippy e-mail claiming that there was no reason for me to concerned and this was a perfectly normal transaction request, she was a Diplomat, bla bla bla
I am sure I am missing out on a sale but I will pass on this--- I am not smart enough to figure out all the angles to prevent being screwed over. I have sold hundreds of things online but have never had a request like this. I am sure it may be fine but not worth the stress of the uncertainty.

[kellyb]

Yes, that is what I wondered. It is not as BLATANT as a lot of the scammers but I do wonder about the lack of protection from Pay Pal. Again, the lack of specific questions.... seemingly wanting to buy based 100% on the info in ad and the few photos.
I asked her for more clarification, so am anxiously waiting for her response!

Also- what the heck is a "Diplomatic Pouch"??? That is probably the biggest tip off to a possible scam.

That's a real thing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_bag

You could probably google her name to see if she is really a diplomat at all. This transaction would not concern me, just sounds like someone in a hurry to get a saddle. You're not shipping it overseas, just to Virginia. Use Paypal's shipping option so everything is tracked through them to cover yourself.

[TouchstoneAcres]

Scam. A diplomat, really? Who and for what country? Check their embassy fist, and get full info from the person. If he/she is snippy skip it. Ask for a USPS money order not a check.

[merrygoround]

The part about the diplomatic pouch sounds like syrup on the scam. Something to make it go down easier.;)

[Coreene]

This ia 100% scam. The diplomatic pouch thing is just a new twist. Two people selling saddles at my barn had the same email, except the person was supposedly in NYC instead.

[slc2]

When the payment arrangements are made, it will become more obvious.

The payment you will be offered will be more than the cost of the saddle plus shipping, and you will need to send 'change' back to the person. For an amazingly mysterious reason, they won't be able to send you the exact amount. That's called a 'pigeon drop' and you're the pigeon.

Or the money order sent you will be fake, worthless. You'll only find out somewhat later, when it doesn't clear the bank.

[Tiligsmom]

The only strange element in your post is that they didn't ask for any more details. If you are asking several thousand $$ for the saddle, it seems strange they didn't ask more questions.

There are a few ways to protect yourself in the deal: www.escrow.com or, do as one poster said and wait for a week for the funds to "clear" in Paypal. You can also investigate Paypal's seller protection policy to see if it will cover you.

[Foxtrot's]

Friends of ours had a similar thing slc said - except it was in reference to renting a holiday home - send more money than needed, and have some sent back.

[Anselcat]

Even though the first email asked if Paypal was the "best way" to pay, my suspicion is that this is just to lure you in. I bet the next email would say, oh things have changed, I will be sending a check/ money order/ cashiers check, whatever.

[Ambrey]

Just tell her you'll only send to a confirmed paypal address and you'll be protected.

I would have thought not a scam, because usually scams are trying to get money, not saddles. If they pay through paypal how would that work?

I actually know a diplomat, they are not as rare as you'd think.

[Coreene]

Oh sweet Jesus, move on already, it is 100% scam! The diplomatic pouch thing is just another part of the scam repertoire, and though you'd think that people would have figured it out by now, some of these responses are screaming illustrations of why scasmmers keep doing it - because there is always some kumbayah fool who falls for it.

[Ambrey]

I did not say it was not a scam. I asked how the scam works if they are paying by paypal.

[chaltagor]

paypal is not scam-proof. There are many ways to scam using paypal.

Who the hell knows a diplomat? Come on. Hey important person, will you schlep my saddle around for me on an airplane?

[chaltagor]

News source:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/646/1049646/nigerian-419-scams-now-hitting-paypal

Miffed ex-paypal users, biased but lots of info:

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

Many sellers have been scammed by the empty box being returned. Buyer has the money, the item and the tracking on the box, plus the sig or delivery confirmation. paypal will not do a thing to help the seller.

[Ambrey]

A different type of scam, then- getting a free saddle vs. the "cash out" scam. It seems like way more trouble than it's worth! Kiting a check would be much easier...

Paypal has recently extended their protection quite a bit- but I'm not sure how much of it applies to sales outside of e-bay.

[Evalee Hunter]

Well, the good news - you don't have to ship anything overseas! I think if the money actually hits your PayPal account, give it a few days (I'd probably hold it a full week) to make sure nothing is "reversed" or goes "wonky", . . .

It takes a MINIMUM of TWO WEEKS to find out if a check has cleared, even for a check written on a local bank. For a check written on a foreign bank, you would have to wait probably two MONTHS to be sure everything cleared. This is based on personal experience.

[Ambrey]

But on paypal, even credit card charges can be reversed.

[wineberrywillie]

What? They don't sell saddles in Africa?? I'd say it's a scam.

We were scammed on something my daughter purchased through eBay & the product was in China (duh). The purchase went through Paypal but I didn't see our money returned for 3 months. So yes, you do have protection through Paypal but I still would not take the chance.

[carovet]

It would be interesting to see what the spoof people at paypal have to say about the email contact? were you selling on ebay or somewhere else?

pretty please forward the email to paypal. im very curious what they will say is the area of risk to you.

[mbm]

Oh sweet Jesus, move on already, it is 100% scam! The diplomatic pouch thing is just another part of the scam repertoire, and though you'd think that people would have figured it out by now, some of these responses are screaming illustrations of why scasmmers keep doing it - because there is always some kumbayah fool who falls for it.

errrr... can someone plese explain the scam on this? exactly *how* would the seller be scammed if they took all precautions (let payments clear and insured the item etc) ???

the links provided do not explain the same thing at all.

people *do* have gov't jobs - and there *are* saddles that you cant get in other countries....

We do live in a global economy where i can buy from almost anywhere in the world.....

[Coreene]

Just shoot me now.

[Anselcat]

I don't think the full scam has been revealed yet. This first email is just the set-up. But all the red flags are there .... shipping to someone other than the buyer, a buyer in a foreign land, a buyer who doesn't ask the usual questions ....

[Ambrey]

I don't think the full scam has been revealed yet. This first email is just the set-up. But all the red flags are there .... shipping to someone other than the buyer, a buyer in a foreign land, a buyer who doesn't ask the usual questions ....

This is my suspicion. If it's a scam, the person would have some trouble using paypal and suddenly need to wire the money, and the diplomatic person would need some payment.

[mickeydoodle]

A diplomatic pouch is just that, it is for documents and small items.

[SillyHorse]

Just shoot me now.
Now, now, Coreene, try to understand that people just don't want to believe that other people, bad people, could be smart enought to scam them.

[Coreene]

Now, now, Coreene, try to understand that people just don't want to believe that other people, bad people, could be smart enought to scam them.But I was being polite. What I really wanted to say was "Just shoot me the f#*k now." ;)

[chizzy]

I'm not weighing in on whether or not it's a scam but there IS such a thing as dip pouch that is used by US personnel assigned to embassies world wide. it's not pouched size any more (if it ever was). there are size limits as to what can be sent via "normal mail" but very large things can be sent via dip pouch if necessary. Simply means that the items contained in that shipment are not subject to customs regulations of the host country nor are they inspected as they are for the personal use of Americans assigned to that embassy and will be removed from said country when the personnel move on.

The address for all my friends assigned to embassies world wide is in Virginia. Most people I know tend to purchase goods in the US and ship them to their posting unless that country is specifically known for the item. It's easier, quality is easier to assess and, often, it's cheaper.

[JanM]

The average take from someone who falls for the Nigerian scams and all it's many variations is about $5,000. Of course, that only includes the people who file a report about being taken.

[mbm]

Now, now, Coreene, try to understand that people just don't want to believe that other people, bad people, could be smart enought to scam them.

Honestly i just think it is very sad that folks automatcally assume it is a scam because the buyer doenst respond in the normal mundane manner. There is a life beyond your own world... and while i agree we all need to be cautious - I think it would be better to ask the buyer some questions that would clarify and *then* post on BB once you have a good idea that it is a scam - they are fairly easy to pick out.....

but i guess fear makes for better BB posts. :rolleyes:

[Coreene]

SillyHorse, please, come back and just shoot me the f*#k now. :lol:

[SillyHorse]

BANG. :dead:

You're welcome.

[buck22]

I frequently purchase saddles and other tack overseas. I skim around through ads, and when I find an item that strikes me, I contact the seller. I've gotten some lovely lovely tack from overseas, that I would never have been able to afford locally, if the brand even ever came up.

There must be 100's of people that think I'm a scammer :D because no matter how well you word your request, it's very awkward approaching a person in another country out of the blue to ask if they'd send their saddle overseas.

I will say to the OP that the email does seem fishy, though. At least when I contact a person, I ask about the quality, measurements, etc. But, I've been through the drill so many times now, that my initial contact email surely sounds canned.

Needless to say, 60% of people say "thanks but no thanks"... which is entirely understandable.

Oh, and diplomats are far more common than you might think, and their wives are famous for shopping for high ticket items... seriously, a friend of mine built an entire business just creating shopping guides and directories for the wives of diplomats for when they're on visit in the USA.... its like a giant shopping spree.

[Anselcat]

Honestly i just think it is very sad that folks automatcally assume it is a scam because the buyer doenst respond in the normal mundane manner. There is a life beyond your own world... and while i agree we all need to be cautious - I think it would be better to ask the buyer some questions that would clarify and *then* post on BB once you have a good idea that it is a scam - they are fairly easy to pick out.....


I didn't automatically assume the 'buyer' was a scammer because she posted in a non-mundane manner, but because of the huge red flag a-waving in the breeze. Namely, she lives "overseas" and the saddle is to be sent to a middleman.

While it's possible this is legit, it's not very probable. And IMHO a seller has no obligation to spend a lot of energy trying to get comfortable with a deal that she's uncomfortable with -- that's what scammers count on, that the seller will feel bad about being suspicious and will accept their explanations for why the sales is more complicated than usual.

It is, sadly, unfair to all the US diplomats serving in African countries who are currently perusing the used saddle ads.

[RHdobes563]

Just shoot me now.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[mbm]

I didn't automatically assume the 'buyer' was a scammer because she posted in a non-mundane manner, but because of the huge red flag a-waving in the breeze. Namely, she lives "overseas" and the saddle is to be sent to a middleman.

While it's possible this is legit, it's not very probable. .

but - did you even ask the buyer any follow up questions or state that you would only ship once the payment cleared?

and did you read upthread the info re: diplomats?

[mbm]

SillyHorse, please, come back and just shoot me the f*#k now. :lol:

huh?

[carovet]

It is, sadly, unfair to all the US diplomats serving in African countries who are currently perusing the used saddle ads.

or, maybe, all of those US diplomats serving in African countries who are currently perusing the used saddle ads will now recognize that they sound like scam artists so they will take steps so that they seem more legit.

or, maybe, we are educating the scammers on the things that would have made the scam seem more legit to more of us and would have made for a more successful scam

:D :lol:

[chaltagor]

Paypal will take the money out of your account if the buyer complains to them. You have no control other than closing your bank account as soon as it is transferred, if you did transfer it instead of letting it sit in paypal. There are many cases where the buyer didn't return the item and the seller was out the money and the item.

Many sellers had their payments taken when buyers won two auctions and asked the seller to combine shipment. The buyer only receives one box and complains to paypal that the other auction items weren't shipped. They have proof of shipment of one box only verified by the seller. Guess who gets the money and the items? Guess who gets shafted? If you read ebay's forums you will see many stories like this, of paypal (ebay) favoring the buyer and not the seller.

[Somantu]

... Who the hell knows a diplomat? Come on. Hey important person, will you schlep my saddle around for me on an airplane?


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh lord, for some reason that line just made me split a gut.
(My father and uncle, both diplomats, would've declined to schlep a saddle around the world for me ;))

[Ambrey]

Now, now, Coreene, try to understand that people just don't want to believe that other people, bad people, could be smart enought to scam them.

Knowing that an individual e-mail is a scam is a lot less useful than knowing how the scam works, what makes it a scam, and how the scam parts you from your hard earned money. Knowing all of those things gives you greater ability to spot the next scam that comes along.