Dressage saddle recommendations

[smurk03]

I'm relatively new to dressage (I've had 3 lessons - woo!) and I'm currently shopping for a dressage saddle. I'd like to spend under $1000, so I know I'm probably going to have to get something used. I found a great deal on a Collegiate Mentor but even though it was wide it was too narrow for my horse (I have a freak-of-nature 16.1hh Morgan who looks more like a hunt-type TB) so I had to return it. Now I'm back to square one. My trainer suggested Kieffer but I'm having the hardest time trying to find a used one in decent shape in my price range.

What I'm asking is: What are some other good brands of saddle? My trainer isn't the type to disapprove just because I don't get her preferred brand, so I'm not worried about that. I just need a good brand, used, that will hopefully last me awhile (so long as my horse doesn't grow out of it... he's barely 5.) Also, where are some good websites or places (I'm in Central MD) to shop for used saddles?

Thanks!!

[chai]

I have a Black Country and it is a very comfortable saddle. I would recommend it.

[rizzodm]

Follow this link, this saddle would be mine if I had the funds.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/sale-17-bates-isabell-dressage-saddle-1000-a-244423.html

Dawn

[saddlebroke]

If you're new to dressage, and don't want to spend a ton of money, I'd go with the Wintec Isabell. Every horse I've used it on loves it, nice cutback for high-withered horses, deep seat and stirrup bars put you in good position, and best of all, changeable gullets so the saddle can adjust to different horses (or the same horse as he build muscle!) easily. New on ebay for just under a thousand, but slightly used...got mine for $560! (WOOHOO!)

[smurk03]

I actually own a Wintec right now, the CC. And while I've been happy with it, I'd like to avoid a Wintec if I can and get something nicer. It's probably because it's a CC, but my saddle is very hard and uncomfortable and has actually been the cause of some tailbone problems for me.... So, I guess I'm a little iffy about buying another Wintec at this point... but it is something I'll look into if I have to.

[Elegante E]

First off, find a saddler to measure your horse. You'll waste a lot of time and money when you are clueless about you and your horse's needs. Your horse may not need a wide tree but a different style of tree. If you're not carefull, you can cause a lot of back problems for a horse riding it in the wrong saddle.

That said, here are some sites: See if they have a saddler to help you measure your horse and help with the fit - either online or in person.

Rick's Heritage: http://www.saddlesource.com/categories.asp?cat=11

Pelham: http://www.pelham-saddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=UD

This one has some cheap ones: http://usedsaddles.com/

[SkippinwithPippin]

I just sold my Keiffer Wein saddle because, while it fit my horse, it was rather "ouchy" for me because the twist was too wide. They are nice saddles and it held up well if you don't mind some pretty obvious fading on the seat and knee rolls. And mine had a cut-back pommel for high withers. Then I bought a Windsor Blueline/Hintermayer saddle. LOVED this saddle and had to pry my hands off of it when I learned it did not fit my horse well enough because it bridged-badly. Beautifully made saddle, but alas, it is my horse's comfort I worry about first! It was really nice to ride in, though, due to the deep seat and generous thigh blocks--nice position for me! But, my horse is dip-backed and that shape of tree is not for him...it's better for flatter-backed horses. Now I have a Windsor Greenline that I also LOVE and thankfully, it fits my horse beautifully as the tree is shaped more for his type of back. He is a 16HH appendix with pretty flat withers and a big-boned shoulder. I got a #4 tree (Wide to Xtra Wide) and couldn't be happier with the fit. I HIGHLY recommend the Windsor saddles!

With all that said, it can be exhausting to find a saddle to fit without having a fitter see your horse or at least sending a wither tracing to a good saddle shop. Every saddle is shaped differently and not all "wide" trees are the same. Take your time and find one that fits you and your horse and you will be soooo happy you did! Good luck!

[NJRider]

Once you determine the needed size (for both of you) you should have no problem finding a quality used saddle that is under $1000. How far are you from a place like Ricks with a ton of saddles you can sit it? It would be worth the drive. Then if you need to go back and buy one online, you know how they sit.

More good sites

http://www.middleburgtack.com/

http://www.bcsaddlery.com/esadud.htm

http://www.saddlersrow.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=394&DEPARTMENT_ID=65

http://www.trumbullmtn.com/Saddle_%20pages/used_dressage/USEDdressage.htm

[anchorsaway]

I have a Collegiate Jessica that I LOVE. I've got a 16 hand TB gelding that it fits really nicely. It's the most comfortable saddle that I have ever ridden in to date. They're fairly inexpensive on ebay too :)

[Ambrey]

In the under $1000 range, I highly recommend the Neidersuss Symphonie if it is wide enough.

However, if your horse is very wide and has a thick wither, you might have more trouble :( The super wide saddles are tough- I sometimes see County saddles in extra wide for decent prices, though.

eta: What size do you need? I found these:

Smith Worthington Maxx (http://cgi.ebay.com/Smith-Worthington-Maxx-Dressage-18-inch-X-Wide_W0QQitemZ120363285928QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item120363285928&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200)
Thornhill LeMonde (http://cgi.ebay.com/Thornhill-LeMonde-DRESSAGE-saddle-18-Wide-Hard-2-Find_W0QQitemZ260315026715QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item260315026715&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200)
County Warmblood (http://cgi.ebay.com/17-5-County-Warmblood-2000-XW-Tree-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ120364936593QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120364936593&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200)

You also might consider a new Thornhill, they are supposed to work well for wide horses!

[mbm]

for a quality used saddle under 1k, i would go with in no spoecial order:

Kieffer
Niedersuss
Passier

all 3 are good solid saddles that will hold up super well.... all 3 are built to fit many horses - not just one. all 3 will hold their value if taken care of. all 3 are well respected "old school" saddlers and if you get one of the older models it will be built to last. all 3 are more "old school" in design if you go for an older model - ie: smaller knee rolls (no blocks!) flatter seats etc etc.

the passier and the kieffer can have their trees adjusted....

i persoanlly love all 3 brands, with a kieffer munchen and an older passier gg with short flaps as my all time faves :)

opps - wanted to add: be careful haveing a fitter come out - they can very very quickly eat your saddle budget to the point of no return. see if you can find a place that sells used saddles that can bring you like a truck load of them to try out - we have a service like that here.... it is awesome!

you can also take a tracing of your guys withers/back and send it to like saddlersrow, Ricks heritage or any of the other used saddle shops - and they can find a saddle that might work for your horse.....

and while i think it is important for the saddle to fit the horse....... i think that people can go too far in saddle fitting etc etc. as long as the saddle has the basic fitting items checked off - you should be good to go.... ie: does the tree angle match the angle of the horses withers? does the saddle sit evenly along the horses back? does the saddle not sit so far back that it goes over the last rib? is the center of the seat the lowest point of the saddle when girthed up? is the cantle higher than the pommel? rocking? bridging? etc etc.

[HorsRdr477]

How about this one!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170295550518&category=47282&_trksid=p3907.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D 15%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54

[lwk]

A friend recently found a used xw Smith Worthington for 1k that is a great fit for her super wide Hannoverian.
I have a Duett Largo that I got for my table-backed draft cross. Surprisingly, it also fits my 5-year-old WB cross. I am quite happy with it.

I looked and looked for an XW Passier but could not find one used in my price range.

If the Wintecs fit your horse, see if you can demo the Wintec Pro and Isabelle. They ride very differently. I am comfortable in the Pro but the Isabelle causes me great pain.

You absolutely have to try riding in the saddles on your horse in order to determine whether it works for both of you.

[smurk03]

That sounds like great advice. My trainer actually recommended Rick's to me specifically. It's a couple hours away from me, but it sounds like it may be worth it.

I don't feel like my horse is hard to fit, he's not high-withered or dip-backed or anything, but he is pretty round. And he's also young and has a lot of muscling up to do, so I'm concerned that if I get something now, it won't fit in a year, so I would like something that's adjustable (even if I have to take it to a saddler to do so).

First off, find a saddler to measure your horse. You'll waste a lot of time and money when you are clueless about you and your horse's needs. Your horse may not need a wide tree but a different style of tree. If you're not carefull, you can cause a lot of back problems for a horse riding it in the wrong saddle.

That said, here are some sites: See if they have a saddler to help you measure your horse and help with the fit - either online or in person.

Rick's Heritage: http://www.saddlesource.com/categories.asp?cat=11

Pelham: http://www.pelham-saddlery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=UD

This one has some cheap ones: http://usedsaddles.com/

[smurk03]

I've seen quite a few Kieffer Munchens for sale in my price range. I tried to look them up on the Kieffer website but I take it they no longer make them? Still, guess I'll have to keep them in mind. ;-)

for a quality used saddle under 1k, i would go with in no spoecial order:

Kieffer
Niedersuss
Passier

all 3 are good solid saddles that will hold up super well.... all 3 are built to fit many horses - not just one. all 3 will hold their value if taken care of. all 3 are well respected "old school" saddlers and if you get one of the older models it will be built to last. all 3 are more "old school" in design if you go for an older model - ie: smaller knee rolls (no blocks!) flatter seats etc etc.

the passier and the kieffer can have their trees adjusted....

i persoanlly love all 3 brands, with a kieffer munchen and an older passier gg with short flaps as my all time faves :)

opps - wanted to add: be careful haveing a fitter come out - they can very very quickly eat your saddle budget to the point of no return. see if you can find a place that sells used saddles that can bring you like a truck load of them to try out - we have a service like that here.... it is awesome!

you can also take a tracing of your guys withers/back and send it to like saddlersrow, Ricks heritage or any of the other used saddle shops - and they can find a saddle that might work for your horse.....

and while i think it is important for the saddle to fit the horse....... i think that people can go too far in saddle fitting etc etc. as long as the saddle has the basic fitting items checked off - you should be good to go.... ie: does the tree angle match the angle of the horses withers? does the saddle sit evenly along the horses back? does the saddle not sit so far back that it goes over the last rib? is the center of the seat the lowest point of the saddle when girthed up? is the cantle higher than the pommel? rocking? bridging? etc etc.

[smurk03]

I believe I need a 17.5" seat and a wide tree. My Wintec is actually a regular tree and it has the MW gullet in it right now (I believe). My trainer is the one that told me to look for a wide tree. My regular instructor (not my dressage trainer) has a Collegiate Dignitary (I think - it's an AP) that has a wide tree and it fits my horse perfectly... and is oh so comfy lol. But since all saddles are different, I guess that's all the more reason to consult a saddler!

In the under $1000 range, I highly recommend the Neidersuss Symphonie if it is wide enough.

However, if your horse is very wide and has a thick wither, you might have more trouble :( The super wide saddles are tough- I sometimes see County saddles in extra wide for decent prices, though.

eta: What size do you need? I found these:

Smith Worthington Maxx (http://cgi.ebay.com/Smith-Worthington-Maxx-Dressage-18-inch-X-Wide_W0QQitemZ120363285928QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item120363285928&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200)
Thornhill LeMonde (http://cgi.ebay.com/Thornhill-LeMonde-DRESSAGE-saddle-18-Wide-Hard-2-Find_W0QQitemZ260315026715QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item260315026715&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200)
County Warmblood (http://cgi.ebay.com/17-5-County-Warmblood-2000-XW-Tree-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ120364936593QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120364936593&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200)

You also might consider a new Thornhill, they are supposed to work well for wide horses!

[1faith]

Smurk 03


I would not recommend the Wintec Isabella, wile it fit my horses ok , it nearly wrecked my back ,I had 3 different instructors tell me it threw me forward and it did , something about the seat.
I have a County Perfection and love it , probably one of the most comfortable saddles I have ever sat it.
I would call a fitter and have yourself and your horse fitted. For example , a County wide is not the same as a Passier wide and so on, just like some jeans are size 8 but when you try them on they feel like a size 2.
Good luck

[mbm]

I've seen quite a few Kieffer Munchens for sale in my price range. I tried to look them up on the Kieffer website but I take it they no longer make them? Still, guess I'll have to keep them in mind. ;-)

people call any old Kieffer a "munchen" becuase that is always stamped on the saddle and might be the only legible piece of info left! :) but Munchen is the area where Kieffer is from, i believe... and while they *do* have a model "munchen" they are really hard to find and mostly are all purpuse or jumping saddles.

i actually do have a munchen dressage and it is my absolute fave saddle. i was lucky enough to find one used and i will never part with it now that i got it :)

[smurk03]

HAH! That's good to know! I've seen quite a few pics of saddles claiming to be "Kieffer Munchen dressage" saddles and I swear they look more like AP or jumping saddles. Sounds like I know what I'm looking at better than I thought!

Ahhh Munich... amazing city. :winkgrin:

people call any old Kieffer a "munchen" becuase that is always stamped on the saddle and might be the only legible piece of info left! :) but Munchen is the area where Kieffer is from, i believe... and while they *do* have a model "munchen" they are really hard to find and mostly are all purpuse or jumping saddles.

i actually do have a munchen dressage and it is my absolute fave saddle. i was lucky enough to find one used and i will never part with it now that i got it :)

[Ambrey]

Just be sure that your saddle tree is laying against his shoulder, parallel with the shoulder angle. For some Morgans, "normal" saddle angles can be wrong and they need something more open at the top with a straighter angle (shaped more like an upside down U than a V).

Good luck!

[Perfect Pony]

If you can stretch just a little bit more there are a lot of bargains out there in the $1500 range.

I recently bought a County Warmblood for $1500. I highly recommend trying to find a nice, used, wool flocked saddle in the correct tree size. Something like a County, Albion or Passier.

[buck22]

Just be sure that your saddle tree is laying against his shoulder, parallel with the shoulder angle. For some Morgans, "normal" saddle angles can be wrong and they need something more open at the top with a straighter angle (shaped more like an upside down U than a V).

Good luck!
good catch Ambrey. I find Albion, County and Marcus Krehan trees suit my wide morgan reasonably well for an off the rack fit, though Albion has a tendency to bridge.

A good #4 tree competitor, in good shape, can be found for cheap if you're patient.

[smurk03]

Definitely something else to keep in mind, thanks! Though my Morgan is much more of a sport build than your typical Morgan (if there is such a thing). He's got great conformation, just doesn't look like a Morgan (he's HUGE, for one lol). I wish I had confo shots of him... but the only thing I have are from when he was 3 and he looks significantly different now. Let's just say I'm no stranger to the comment, "That's a MORGAN?!" Heh.

good catch Ambrey. I find Albion, County and Marcus Krehan trees suit my wide morgan reasonably well for an off the rack fit, though Albion has a tendency to bridge.

A good #4 tree competitor, in good shape, can be found for cheap if you're patient.

[buck22]

haha, that must be unusual! Mine's very old typey, 14.3 and an awkward mix of broad and shapely with beefy shoulders.... and annoyingly smart :D

[Elegante E]

From the sound of it, I'm guessing that your horse doesn't just need a wide but one with the rounder tree configuration (this is not what it's called but you may understand it, there are V config and U configs). The U type if for wider whithers/shoulders. I'd suggest Passier, Frank Baines (hard to get used and expensive but lovely), Albion, Black Country (amazingly soft flocking), Arabian Saddle Co. (made by Lovatt and Rickets in the UK), and Custom Saddlery. These all run generous. For better descriptions of the saddles themselves, look at some of the places that sell them new - some times the manufacturers are useless there.

If you look at older Passiers, they run narrower than newer ones especially in Medium - old as in over 6-8 years, and I think all the PS baum trees are newer, am guessing here a bit) The adjustable trees are nice and make it less worrisome to buy. I love my passiers and just bought a used one for DH off of ebay for under $800 which leaves plenty for adjusting it for the horse. They're "freedom panels" make the saddle especially wide.

Definitely go sit in some saddles and pay attention to the twists as that can really affect your seat and the drape of your leg.

[ginger708]

I found my thornhill (Germaina klusse) sp? saddle on e-bay for $775.00 with shipping. It's a great saddle for the price. The leather is not as supple as some more expensive saddles but it has a good comfortable seat that puts you in a correct position with out being binding, and a nice thigh block for those of us still working on legs that creep forward.

[smurk03]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1336884&l=df23d&id=510345069

This is one of my favorite pics of my guy, that's us on the far right. The other two horses are Morgans, just under 15hh I believe. The one in the middle is actually his half sister. Now, the ground isn't perfectly flat, but it also isn't terribly sloped. Gives a good idea of his size. ;-)

As for Morgan brains, a common phrase used about Tater is "so smart, yet so dumb." He learns anything and everything frighteningly fast, yet is the one to get a stirrup stuck in his mouth while saddled in his stall (this wasn't me responsible, btw, lol).

haha, that must be unusual! Mine's very old typey, 14.3 and an awkward mix of broad and shapely with beefy shoulders.... and annoyingly smart :D

[smurk03]

Thanks! That's great advice! It definitely make sense that he probably needs a U-shaped tree because he does have big shoulders... big everything really. :lol:

From the sound of it, I'm guessing that your horse doesn't just need a wide but one with the rounder tree configuration (this is not what it's called but you may understand it, there are V config and U configs). The U type if for wider whithers/shoulders. I'd suggest Passier, Frank Baines (hard to get used and expensive but lovely), Albion, Black Country (amazingly soft flocking), Arabian Saddle Co. (made by Lovatt and Rickets in the UK), and Custom Saddlery. These all run generous. For better descriptions of the saddles themselves, look at some of the places that sell them new - some times the manufacturers are useless there.

If you look at older Passiers, they run narrower than newer ones especially in Medium - old as in over 6-8 years, and I think all the PS baum trees are newer, am guessing here a bit) The adjustable trees are nice and make it less worrisome to buy. I love my passiers and just bought a used one for DH off of ebay for under $800 which leaves plenty for adjusting it for the horse. They're "freedom panels" make the saddle especially wide.

Definitely go sit in some saddles and pay attention to the twists as that can really affect your seat and the drape of your leg.