Another NICE Saddlebred falling through the cracks

[cb06]

I know I should not even look at these websites, but sometimes you see such a nice horses and wonder how they get in these awful places.

7 yr old mare, rides and drives....$700.

Broker Owned
According to the website, she ships to slaughter on Friday if no takers?

http://www.ac4h.com/DSC09999.JPG

http://www.ac4h.com/DSC09995.JPG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqdlAbEXwg8

I should really stick to lurking and learning (i.e., the fun stuff) on the other threads because this stuff just makes me... :cry:

[Brandy76]

I really hope she finds a home.... :( She is gorgeous.

[HydroPHILE]

Wow. I'm not even a saddlebred fan, and I like her.

[spaceagevalkyrie]

Ohh, I wish I could bring her home with me :(.

[Ibex]

She's lovely... :no:

Can someone tell me why only her head is clipped? Is this a common ASB thing?

[Ashby]

<sigh> There goes my fantasy. And she's going to die. Breaks my heart. But I can only afford one horse, and that one with difficulty.

When I get to heaven this is the first thing I'm going to ask God about: why?

[ASB Stars]

It is common with the Amish, and the show horse people- their heads don't sweat as much (Amish- who clip their mules the same way) and they also look nicer (show horse people).

This is a very, very nice mare. She'll do as many things, and a dressage horse is one of them. If anyone is interested in bailing her out, I'll help to try and find her identity, and I'll even consider donating a season to Borealis. I think she is that nice! :yes:

[msrobin]

She is gorgeous! Make me so sick to think about them going to slaughter and they have some beauties at the broker barn right now. Wish I could take them all. They don't deserve to die.

http://ac4h.com/brokerownedhorses.htm

[Laurierace]

Or you could wait and go to New Holland and buy her from there for $250. She does look like a lovely lady, I hope she finds a new home with one of us.

[enjoytheride]

Healthy fat horses sell for $250 to slaughter here. Last summer it was $400 for a large horse.

[Foxtrot's]

...and then she will be thrown onto a truck and shipped huge distance to Canada or Mexico to slaughter....

[enjoytheride]

Yes I get that, the point is that if she is in danger of going to slaughter the dealer will take anything slightly above meat prices to make more of a profit. I can't stand when people want to sell a horse for $700 and then threaten slaughter the next day. $700 is on the high end for a saddlebred (depending on the area) especially in an area where she may have been used hard and ended up at an auction due to lamness. $700 is an excellent price for a broke registered trail horse who goes WTC in a saddle and bit. $700 is more likely if he has a slow lope or is colored or gaited. Since this is a dealer he knows that she will fetch $300 or less if he sells her to a kill buyer. An offer of $300 - $400 on the high end would be plenty to save her if he really plans on shipping her.

[TB or not TB?]

I love the look of her - she's gorgeous. But I too am curious as to her price. That seems well above the slaughter rate? :confused: No offense to this rescue, but I see visions of CBER dancing in my head when I hear "THE TRUCK IS COMING" and "$700" in the same ad. Perhaps there is a legitimate reason, and if anyone knows, I am open to hearing! :yes:

Regardless of the rescue or what ever, she is a lovely mare, and I hope someone takes her home. :cry:

[EquineLVR]

If someone wants her I can contribute some bail money... just too sad to see her go to slaughter...:(

[War Admiral]

No offense to this rescue, but I see visions of CBER dancing in my head when I hear "THE TRUCK IS COMING" and "$700" in the same ad.

Seconded. Mr. Broker needs a wake-up call. He could get these prices 2-3 years ago, but not now.

If somebody feels the call to jump in and grab her, go for it; I'm not saying don't do it. But I am saying that if you're bargain-hunting, this might not be the place.

[seeuatx]

I love the look of her - she's gorgeous. But I too am curious as to her price. That seems well above the slaughter rate? :confused: No offense to this rescue, but I see visions of CBER dancing in my head when I hear "THE TRUCK IS COMING" and "$700" in the same ad. Perhaps there is a legitimate reason, and if anyone knows, I am open to hearing! :yes:

Regardless of the rescue or what ever, she is a lovely mare, and I hope someone takes her home. :cry:

Someone correct me if I am wrong...

The difference between CBER and AC4H (at least as I understand it to be) is that CBER *is* the broker, and they unashamedly send those they deem unworthy (for whatever reason) off on the meat truck, while still claiming the rescue title. AC4H merely takes listings from the brokers in hopes that they can save a few more than they would otherwise be able to support on their own means. Sort of like CANTER trainer listings in a way... the broker names the price, not the rescue, and sometimes prices are negotiable if you show up with a trailer and cash in hand.

[Artie]

She is beautiful! and i've never been a saddlebred fan

[Tha Ridge]

Not a Saddlebred fan, but that girl looks like she will make someone a lovely Dressage horse.

[ASB Stars]

Seconded. Mr. Broker needs a wake-up call. He could get these prices 2-3 years ago, but not now.


Mr. Broker doesn't give a red hot damn. These horses have NO chance at all to be purchased by anyone other than the meat man if he doesn't get his pound of flesh- literally. The mare didn't set the price. She is worth a bit more because she is fat and fancy. The Broker may not get that money from the meat man- but then, it will be too late, won't it? You can stand on your principles-but she doesn't have that luxury.

I do not agree with what these people do, but this is about the horses, not the jerk. If you care about the indvidual animals, you have to look past the creatures who own them.

[Lori B]

She is very lovely. Ouch.

[Bayou Roux]

Someone correct me if I am wrong...

The difference between CBER and AC4H (at least as I understand it to be) is that CBER *is* the broker, and they unashamedly send those they deem unworthy (for whatever reason) off on the meat truck, while still claiming the rescue title. AC4H merely takes listings from the brokers in hopes that they can save a few more than they would otherwise be able to support on their own means. Sort of like CANTER trainer listings in a way... the broker names the price, not the rescue, and sometimes prices are negotiable if you show up with a trailer and cash in hand.

I'm not 100% sure about these guys... I have a creepy feeling about them.

Several years ago, I attempted to contact AC4h about a broker horse, and they were insistent that I could NOT contact the broker directly, could only come when they could go to the broker, pick up the horse, and bring it to their location for me to see. After several unsuccessful attempts to make the schedule work out (due to the distance I had to travel and their availability), I was left with the impression that they were brokering this sale and had a financially vested interest in being the middle man. And through the whole communication, the message they kept putting out was this one's going to die! Hurrry! Come save it! I was trying hard, and trying to work it out with them, but their focus remained on staying in the middle, making sure they got their cut... seemed hinky.

I could be mistaken; we never fully connected on this one. And maybe I caught staff at a bad time or something, but the experience was VERY different with Saddlebred Rescue, whose primary goal was rehoming the horse.

[cb06]

Oh ASB Stars, if I could swing it, I would take you up on your offer in a heartbeat...your stallion Borealis is STUNNING! But, I board and can only afford one horse, a 17 yr old ASB who does a little of everything, has shown in pleasure and dressage, trail rides and loves jumping....wouldn't trade him for the world.

I posted her because I saw the same thing you did...she would make a wonderful Amateur dressage horse...she is really lovely.

The broker world seems like quite a sketchy place as I am learning from other posts, but unfortunately, as you said, this nice mare and all the other horses have no control over that, or their own destiny. ... I just hope she gets a chance from someone.

Just wanted to add that AC4H should be commended for getting pics and videos of some of these horses out on the internet for all to see...they can't save all of them, and from what I understand this is just an effort by them to give broker owned horses an audience, and maybe improve their chance to find a home. Everything I've heard is that AC4H is legit and has saved a lot of horses....but they can't control the brokers.

[ASB Stars]

I'm not 100% sure about these guys... I have a creepy feeling about them.

Several years ago, I attempted to contact AC4h about a broker horse, and they were insistent that I could NOT contact the broker directly, could only come when they could go to the broker, pick up the horse, and bring it to their location for me to see. After several unsuccessful attempts to make the schedule work out (due to the distance I had to travel and their availability), I was left with the impression that they were brokering this sale and had a financially vested interest in being the middle man. And through the whole communication, the message they kept putting out was this one's going to die! Hurrry! Come save it! I was trying hard, and trying to work it out with them, but their focus remained on staying in the middle, making sure they got their cut... seemed hinky.

I could be mistaken; we never fully connected on this one. And maybe I caught staff at a bad time or something, but the experience was VERY different with Saddlebred Rescue, whose primary goal was rehoming the horse.


The goal a AC4H is to save as many horses as they can- as been shown with other breeds, as well, here on COTH.

I have no question that they are not willing to let the potential adopters meet and greet the Brokers because they are concerned that those interactions can cause problems which will ultimately prevent them from being able to continue to get horses out of these lots. I can think of one Broker in particular, that I know AC4H works with, who wouldn't even think of dealing with the average person who is trying to help a horse.

If you are going to accuse AC4H of making money on these horses on a public forum, I hope that you have more than just "hinky feelings" because it is a nasty, nasty thing to do.

SBR has one a brilliant job adopting out many American Saddlebreds in need. However, they do not list their adoption fees on the site. Obviously, they need to try to cover their expenses, which are ongoing, but they are one of the very few rescues I have ever seen that refuses to publish these fees. Do you accuse them of making money? No rescue makes money. It simply doesn't work like that. There are stories all around of rescues who didn't return calls, or wouldn't work with some individuals. This is tough, thankless work.

[Bayou Roux]

I'm not 100% sure about these guys...

I could be mistaken; we never fully connected on this one. And maybe I caught staff at a bad time or something, but the experience was VERY different with Saddlebred Rescue, whose primary goal was rehoming the horse.

As I said, I freely admit I could be mistaken.

[Delkredere]

I would take her in a heartbeat and have room, and am close enough. Don't have the up front money to buy right now :( What a shame, such a nice mare. :( Sending up jingles she finds a home.

[ASB Stars]

OK...can we raise the $$ to send her to Tawna?

[Gayla]

I have also tried to contact repeatedly AC4H and they just wouldn't respond. I really badly wanted a mare at their farm they had for sale.

I will kick in some bail money on this mare. IF person ultimately getting her will agree to pictures when they go to their first show! :D

[JaneeneSings]

I posted a comment on this youtube video. This was the comment I got back:

"Supply and Demand - Money. It's business. Every week while doing our best to help as many as we can we watch pretty, sound, useable horses go to slaughter.... Slaughter isn't the garbage can of the horse world - they don't clean up the old, infirmed or diseased they want the #1 FAT horses because they pay the most."

:confused:

[cb06]

I can donate something...should we send it to ac4H and designate that it is for this mare?

[ASB Stars]

Let's do it this way- please list your pledges here, and if we can pull it together TODAY- we can send the money to AC4H, with an additional 3%, because AC4H has to pay Paypal, if the donations go that way. Otherwise, we could send the money to Tawna, and she could go and get the mare.

Does this sound OK for everyone- including YOU Tawna?

[cb06]

I'm in for $50.

(Tawna, your stallion is gorgeous too!..I hope we can get this nice mare for you).

[HydroPHILE]

I'm not really familiar with AC4H...are they located in one state/one location, or do they post horses from all over?

I just love this mare's little trot at the end of her YouTube video :)

[caffeinated]

AC4H merely takes listings from the brokers in hopes that they can save a few more than they would otherwise be able to support on their own means. Sort of like CANTER trainer listings in a way... the broker names the price, not the rescue, and sometimes prices are negotiable if you show up with a trailer and cash in hand.

That's the way I understand it too.

I do think the broker might price them too high, and I have mixed feelings about emotional manipulation (the truck is coming!) but I don't think AC4H makes anything off of the broker listings. Granted, hardly anything surprises me anymore and I could be wrong.

[msrobin]

AC4H does nothing but try to help horses. They work their butts off trying to save them via fundraising and dealing directly with meat men and the brokers.
Fact is brokers like them do NOT want everybody and their brother contacting them about horses. They work with certain people only, that is the way it is. Some of them do not even go to auction they are sold directly to the meat man. Some go to the auction and have sold for much more than they are asking on the site.
The horses on the site are in Pennsylvania. They have always been very pleasant to deal with and would bend over backwards to save a life.

Before anyone goes off and starts saying they are making money off the horses get your facts straight. These people live and breath trying to save horses from slaughter. They are great.

They have no control over the prices they are set by the broker. The horses change every week .
Just look at this poor mare
http://ac4h.com/013.jpg
http://ac4h.com/011.jpg

and this cute boy with the cutest feet
http://ac4h.com/DSC09969.JPG


They are waiting for their lives to be spared. Along with many others, lets think of them.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Another Chance for Horses is a reputable 501(c)3 rescue organization that does its very best to promote awareness of horses going to slaughter that might be saved, as well as rescue. They can't save them all, of course, but by promoting awareness of horses going to slaughter they know it is possible that others may be able to save them - and it makes all the difference in the world to the horse that is rehomed.

They do not make money off of this, I assure you. In fact, I don't know of any rescue that "makes" money - it all goes back to helping the horses, and educating the public. Please help.

That being said, can someone PM me so I know where to donate my dribble? I am juggling a bunch of things today and don't want to hunt through and miss a deadline.

[caffeinated]

As far as folks having trouble making contact- I don't know the specifics here, and don't know the folks at AC4H... but people are human. Email sometimes gets caught in a spam filter. They deal with a very large volume and turnover of listings (not to mention the horses in the actual rescue program that they are very busy rehabbing/training/etc). So I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt there- it's really hard running something like that, especially since there's no real profit, and everybody involved probably also has to juggle a full time job (and family) as well (assuming there, correct me if I'm wrong).

[Pat]

Do we know where this horse is? Will it go to New Holland, or is it somewhere else? I thought of emailing a local saddlebred farm to see if they are interested in rescueing her. I *think* they are the bleeding heart type!! I know they are well off and run a nice place.

[Eddie Monster]

Hey all thanks for trying to help this horse. You should contact AC4H and let them know you want to save her. If she has a place to go then they will post her on their message board and ABR to help raise funds.

Also the potential home has to fill out some paperwork as well.

[msrobin]

Do we know where this horse is? Will it go to New Holland, or is it somewhere else? I thought of emailing a local saddlebred farm to see if they are interested in rescueing her. I *think* they are the bleeding heart type!! I know they are well off and run a nice place.

She is in Pennsylvania

[Eddie Monster]

Here is Kristy's email address she helps Christy list all of the horses. She is super sweet.

Just send her an email and tell her which horse you are trying to save. She will send you the paperwork and get the process started.

I will email her and tell her you are going to contact her and see if we can get started taking pledges for her if you want. Then once the paperwork is approved we hopefully will have enough pledges to save the horse.

The horses are close to New Holland.

How much do you all have so far? I can give that info to Kristy as well.

[Eddie Monster]

draft_horse_rider@ yahoo.com

Those are underscores between draft and horse and rider. Take the space out between @ and yahoo.

[Eddie Monster]

I would take her in a heartbeat and have room, and am close enough. Don't have the up front money to buy right now :( What a shame, such a nice mare. :( Sending up jingles she finds a home.

We could probably raise the funds for her between here, abr and AC4H boards???

Do you have a place to quarantine her? She has been on the lot and would need to be quarantined.

Thanks!!!

[ImJumpin]

I don't mean to be rude, and agree this is a nice looking mare worth saving, but why would someone get her and breed her? Obviously there is a serious problem of way too many unwanted horses-- and even teh nice ones (like this girl) are ending up in not so nice situations during these tough economic times. Why are we going to create yet another horse to add to the mess?

I don't know anything about Tawny's breeding business, and I am sure she has a nice stud, but I just always feel wrong when I see giveaways listed as being good for breeding or when people rescue and then breed the horse. It just doesn't add up to me.

[Eddie Monster]

Bummer!!! No breeding is allowed per the adoption contract. So she still needs a home : (

[ASB Stars]

If she is purchased by someone, through the Broker, there is NO adoption contract. If she is purchased through donations to AC4H, then she will be adopted out, with a contract.

I have someone who may be willing to take her home, and has most of the money. I have called, and emailed Christy. We need about $200, if she is purchased outright for this person- who, to the best of my knowledge is very, very legitimate.

[SmartAlex]

when I see giveaways listed as being good for breeding or when people rescue and then breed the horse. It just doesn't add up to me.

So, next time I'm shopping for a broodmare, I should categorically rule out all qualified mares from adoption programs, and go spend ten times that much to a private owner, who, if they don't get their price could, conceivably, dump the horse at a dealer's?

:confused:

[ASB Stars]

Just because a horse is purchased out of a difficult situation does NOT mean that they should be deleted frm the genepool. It simply means that the situation that they are coming from is challenging. If you are adopted, should you not have kids? I mean, c'mon...

I have a friend who rescued a mare, many years ago. She took some time, and researched, and followed the trail back, until she was able to positively identify the mare. She was a daughter of WGC CH Yorktown, which, for all of you non-ASB folks, means she essentially found a daughter of Seattle Slew, who had fallen off of the radar. The mare went on to produce a fabulous stallion, and several very nice show horses.

[SmartAlex]

And here is my broodmare

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_e5DEXJvtb90/SWmQz0si2zI/AAAAAAAAACM/gdesLjByvBY/s1600-h/Copy+4.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_e5DEXJvtb90/SWmRLkTRTNI/AAAAAAAAACU/1Tu3dPd9bik/s1600-h/IMG_2953.JPG

Sorry the pics are a little large, but I can't do anything about it at the moment.

Adopted for $850. We owned her 3/4 sister who produced, among others, a National Champion NSH for us.

[Snowflake]

I can vouch for AC4H. I did a rehab for rick and christy. Nice, honest and hardworking people. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. What a nice, nice mare! They don't release the names/locations of their brokers because they want to foster a good relationship with them. They don't want to risk that by releasing their names and locations willy nilly and having them harassed by people who don't agree with their business plan. They do their best to help each and every horse, and I know it takes a little piece of their hearts when one slips through their fingers. But, it's the old saying of keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And I think that's their philosophy with the brokers.

[Delkredere]

Just checking back in.... seems she found a home??? SO happy to hear this!! ASB- keep us posted as to her progress with the new owner! The network here for saving horses is wonderful.

I am always glad to help... even if offering a temporary home until a permanent longterm one can be found.

I would have just been happy to save her. No breeding thoughts were there as I am at a very managable amout currently and not looking to add to my broodmare band right now (unless my older mare decides this is her last year).

Hope to see updates on this mare in her new home!!

[ASB Stars]

I can vouch for AC4H. I did a rehab for rick and christy. Nice, honest and hardworking people. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. What a nice, nice mare! They don't release the names/locations of their brokers because they want to foster a good relationship with them. They don't want to risk that by releasing their names and locations willy nilly and having them harassed by people who don't agree with their business plan. They do their best to help each and every horse, and I know it takes a little piece of their hearts when one slips through their fingers. But, it's the old saying of keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And I think that's their philosophy with the brokers.

You have a PM!! :yes:

[ASB Stars]

Hey- I do NOT know if this is going to work, yet! We are short some money, and we need to find a place to QT her. I have someone who wants her, and is qualified, and has most of the money...but we are NOT there yet. And, it would be helpful if I could get Christy on the phone :mad:

[Lori B]

ASB_Stars, put me down for $25, and tell me where and when to send it so that it helps this lovely girl.

[Pat]

So, next time I'm shopping for a broodmare, I should categorically rule out all qualified mares from adoption programs, and go spend ten times that much to a private owner, who, if they don't get their price could, conceivably, dump the horse at a dealer's?

:confused:

Yeah, seriously, I just DONT understand that mentality. A nice mare with papers, why the heck not?

Well, as long as you aren't breeding "Spanish Jennet Tiger Horses". Sheesh, yeah, there's something the world was dieing to have....

FWIW, I emailed that local ASB place. We'll see if anything comes of it. That mare looks quiet enough for lessons, and this place *does* do lessons...

[SC]

You can put me in for $100 providing email money transfers can be done (I'm in Canada) I hope it works out for her... Lovely mare.

[Pat]

My email bounced. crap. will try again!

[ASB Stars]

AC4H has Paypal...please send the funds, and earmark them for the "7 year old ASB mare", please.

We are NOT running this through AC4H as an adoption- the Broker will be paid directly, by AC4H, however, so the funds need to go there.

Because this is not an outright adoption, just a "welfare case", the funds you donate are NOT deductable as they would be if this was going through the 501.c.3. I am not sure that would preclude them completely from being a donation, but there will not be a receipt, as such.

If we can get the $125 above, we are only $75 short of bailing this girl out, excludingPaypal fees of 3%. If you send checks directly to AC4H, please note "payment for 7 year old ASB". on the memo line, and include a note with an explanation of application of your payment.

Anyone?

[cb06]

I sent my pitence in.
....whoever gets her, I hope they will post pics later...:)

[EquineLVR]

If you need more $$ PM me and I can help.

[enjoytheride]

Here is my experience with brokers: They will sell a horse to anyone with cash in hand. Any person can walk onto the lot with a trailer, point at a horse, and take it home. Brokers often take horses to multiple auctions to get the price they want. If you buy one, get it home, and it dumps you, you can often take it back to the broker and get another one for an even exchange. Or you can just drop it off at the next auction. However, if they are dealing with bunch of nuts online who don't understand how life is they may not put a horse online.

Do not believe anything a broker tells you about the horse's history or soundness. They only care about making money.

Any single person here can go to New Holland and bid on a horse and take it home. There are often several dealers/brokers at each sale selling horses.

[chaltagor]

Yeah, seriously, I just DONT understand that mentality. A nice mare with papers, why the heck not?

If the mare was so wonderful, and her life was in jeopardy, why would you think the world would need more? Obviously it doesn't, not at this moment, if there are so many that some of them end up being eaten. The breeding should slow down or stop until they are in such demand that they are valued higher. That's how I see it.

[Pat]

Wait, so because there are unwanted horses, we shouldn't breed quality ones? What is the magikcal difference between a horse that didn't slip thru the cracks, had a performance career and moved on to the breeding shed, and one that winds up like this saddlebred?? Because a horse was/is in a 'bad place' should it then be ignored forever for it's genetic potential? *That* makes zero sense.

wow.

How's about we worry about the backyard ding-dong's who breed crooked freek shows. OR the morons who breed to "recreate" so-called historical breeds like those fools with the "Spanish Jennet Tiger Horses"?? They proudly display a lovely photo of thier crooked mare w/her crooked baby on thier website. (they can blame the economy all they want, nobody wants thier crap horses) Or the idiots who continue to breed horses with genetic diseases like HERDA and HYPP. You know, the things that we *could* eliminate if we just stop breeding the carriers??


GAH

How's the fundraising going? I'm sorry I can't help that way right now. I did cross post this to another board, tho.

[Lori B]

Three things.

Your responsible attitude towards breeding is not going to change the behavior of folks who don't have such a responsible attitude. Sad but true.

Second, the economy, the economy, the economy. Is anyone so confident of the value of their contribution to the world's equines that they abso-fricking-lutely have to breed this year? Whether you like Fugly or not, she asks the question, in painful and realistic detail. And even if someone needs to breed, would it kill anyone to breed a couple fewer?

http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/2009/01/enumclaw-auction-report-even-more.html

And even though you might have a stunning stallion, and this mare is adorable, doesn't mean that everyone cutting back a little wouldn't be a really good thing. When every rescue is turning nice horses away. And the double deckers to Canada and Mexico are full.

[ASB Stars]

I have three stallions, and three lovely mares. My YOUNGEST colt is five this year. I don't need any more, currently, and the market is dreadful, right now. I try to step up, and take in rescues, whenever I can. That doesn't mean that I won't breed any more horses. I'll just think about it, before I do.

[ASB Stars]

I would like to thank each and every one of you, who took a moment, and spared a thought, or was able to send along a bit to help to this mare. She is now "fully funded", thanks to you COTH angels, and some TROT angels, too.

Her new owner- who has adopted a rescue before- would like to remain anonymous, which I am going to honor, and I am hoping that they'll send along some pictures when they get her to her new home. She is going to QT next week.

I wish I'd had room- but I have several farmed out right now, myself, and a full house, at home. This mare is going to be a pleasure/trail horse for her new owner- but I'd a liked to see her as a dressage horse, darn it. Maybe I can work on that new owner to take up a new discipline...

Once again, thank you for your kindness. I am humbled to be among so many people for whom the horse- not the debate- comes first. Thank you.

[chaltagor]

Wait, so because there are unwanted horses, we shouldn't breed quality ones? What is the magikcal difference between a horse that didn't slip thru the cracks, had a performance career and moved on to the breeding shed, and one that winds up like this saddlebred?? Because a horse was/is in a 'bad place' should it then be ignored forever for it's genetic potential? *That* makes zero sense.

Oh well, sorry my opinion doesn't make sense to you. Maybe the numbers of slaughtered pedigreed good breeding stock horses will?

If you base your breeding program on how bad others' stock is, and think it's ok to breed because your horses aren't like theirs, then you need to rethink just about everything.

[cb06]

Well, not to get to far off track in trying to save this mare, and I don't want to open a can of worms that has been opened before, but I think there are many reasons for some nice ASB's landing in bad places.... A bad economy/horse market in general, the need for more/better placed promotion by the breed association of ASB's as all around, versatile, family horses (I know some are trying hard..thank you!), and a real headwind of bias simply because most people have only 'seen' ASB's as fired-up show horses without having any hands-on experience and come to the understandable conclusion they are not good for dressage, pleasure, jumping, eventing, etc. ASB's are often 'stumbled' upon for 'non-traditional' (I use that lightly) uses, but not actively sought out for those uses...

So here's the real clincher example for me (with 20 yrs experience around ASB's and a healthy smattering of other breeds)....Harry Callahan, whom many of you know, is an 11 yr old full saddlebred gelding and just scored 62+% in FEI Grand Prix dressage in Wellington, Fl, beating many NICE, EXPENSIVE horses. So what is the kicker? he's a fluke, not the norm, right?

Wrong! He is an AVERAGE saddlebred...AVERAGE..(I am paraphrasing Harry's owner, so I know she will understand my point). What Harry has is an exceptional owner that had the resources to keep him with a good trainer and the good fortune of finding a trainer that clicked with him...but he is not a fluke, he is like the majority of the ASB's out there, an AVERAGE amateur friendly, trainable ASB that can be found in back pastures of reputable breeders...and sometimes pulling an Amish cart...and they sell for pennies compared to most dressage/hunter/jumper horses...and sometimes end up with crappy brokers only a whisper away from the truck to nowhere like this mare.

I really hope more people will find a way to look through some of the riding style/framing style differences they may not be familiar with and see the nice ASB's conformation and temperments that are out there...

Off my soap box now and lets save that mare!

...and for good measure, my ASB is in my profile carting my 67 yr old mother around (sorry Mom for not fixing your chin strap!...she's really not that goofy looking ;))..I ride maybe 2-3 times a week (sometimes less in igloo weather like this), we just started a little dressage last year (63%), he loves to jump (I'm not so sure:o), and will plow through most anything on the trail (he's the brave one that always goes first past the 'scary' stuff...the QH's, warmbloods, draft-crosses, etc. in tow), he has carted every one of my non-riding friends around the ring...AND he will get up and go when asked, not at all a dead-head.

[cb06]

She's safe! Thanks ASB stars!

[ASB Stars]

I just got off the phone with her new person, and they wanted me to share with you that they truly, deeply, appreciate your help.

And the mare's new name? Esperanza- spanish for HOPE!!!! :yes:

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Awesome.

[Eddie Monster]

If the mare was so wonderful, and her life was in jeopardy, why would you think the world would need more? Obviously it doesn't, not at this moment, if there are so many that some of them end up being eaten. The breeding should slow down or stop until they are in such demand that they are valued higher. That's how I see it.

I agree.

This horse is papered and well bred and standing in line to be slaughtered. So where do you draw the line? The off spring? I don't think so one day they will not be good enough for someone either.

There are plenty of well bred papered horses at the auctions going to slaughter as I type.

[TB or not TB?]

Oh good! I'm so happy for this lovely gal.

I'm sorry, I hope I didn't offend anyone before with my comments - just wanted to verify that this was legit.

[2Jakes]

THANK YOU to all who helped rescue the lovely Esperanza! Sorry I'm late in on this effort!

I just love it when the CoTH angels work their magic! Congrats to the new Mom and her new partner.

Thanks also for the insight into ASB's in general, I've only ever seen the "show" type but I am gaining a new apprecaition for them as I see them in the new light.

[Pat]

Oh well, sorry my opinion doesn't make sense to you. Maybe the numbers of slaughtered pedigreed good breeding stock horses will?

If you base your breeding program on how bad others' stock is, and think it's ok to breed because your horses aren't like theirs, then you need to rethink just about everything.

You know what, forget it. You aren't even making sense now.

I don't have a breeding program. I'm not a breeder. I don't base anything on anybody else's crap program. There is nothing to rethink here. And if anyone needs to 'rethink' anything it's the nimrods who DO breed willy-nilly without thinking about what the offspring will be like.

LoriB, even Fugs is OK with breeding rescued mares, if they are good examples of the breed, are papered and the offspring are registerable. Don't twist her recent rescue to prove a point that she doesn't stand behind. She is against the irresponsible idiots who breed crap, not the people who breed quality.

No, just because nice horses go to slaughter I don't think that people should stop thier quality breeding programs. Breeding horses is not the problem. People too greedy or too stupid or too callous to care about thier horses is the problem.

Glad to see the horse gets a chance!

[Woodland]

I emailed a few of you about an ASB mare FREE in the Chicago Craig's list.

[ASB Stars]

Woodland-

I posted her on TROT- thanks for the heads up. She is a very interestingly bred mare!

[Woodland]

Woodland-

I posted her on TROT- thanks for the heads up. She is a very interestingly bred mare!

I trained a horse with similar breeding many years ago -it's old solid breeding. Loved that horse! One of the best 3 gaited horses I ever met.

Thanks for the help - CL always worries me!

[HydroPHILE]

the need for more/better placed promotion by the breed association of ASB's as all around, versatile, family horses (I know some are trying hard..thank you!), and a real headwind of bias simply because most people have only 'seen' ASB's as fired-up show horses without having any hands-on experience and come to the understandable conclusion they are not good for dressage, pleasure, jumping, eventing, etc. ASB's are often 'stumbled' upon for 'non-traditional' (I use that lightly) uses, but not actively sought out for those uses...

I have minimal experience with saddlebreds except for one NSH (who was great, by the way - FUN RIDE!). When my mom was in the waiting room for my dad's brain surgery in the mid 90s, she met a Saddlebred breeder somewhere here in Georgia (I think they were over in East Atlanta, but I'm not sure). My mom, being the type of person who says her ideal horse has one foot already in the glue factory, was verbally introduced by this breeder to ASBs as being "firey," "spirited," "dangerous," and "not for everyone."

If I even so much as mention "Saddlebreds" to my mom, she chimes in with, "yes I remember that woman at the hospital saying they are dangerous horses."

So I agree...better/more marketing of saddlebreds NOT being psychotic horses bred from the stables of Hell set forth to kill everyone in its path....would be great.

[SmartAlex]

...better/more marketing of saddlebreds NOT being psychotic horses bred from the stables of Hell set forth to kill everyone in its path....would be great.


May I quote you on the annual ASHA member's survey I have sitting here on my desk ???!!!!:D

[EquineLVR]

I just got off the phone with her new person, and they wanted me to share with you that they truly, deeply, appreciate your help.

And the mare's new name? Esperanza- spanish for HOPE!!!! :yes:

That is the BEST news ever!! Thanks ASB for helping save her - what a wonderful thing to do!!

[HydroPHILE]

May I quote you on the annual ASHA member's survey I have sitting here on my desk ???!!!!:D

LOL - that's what my mother thinks of them :) I visited a rescue a couple of years ago, and even the rescue director said, "Careful...that one's a saddlebred...and they're always a little nutzy."

[Cupcake]

So is anyone working on springing this mare? Next to her listing it says "pending/team effort".

Ooops, never mind! I didn't read the rest of the thread before replying :) I'm glad I didn't have to contemplate another horse! haha

[Cupcake]

There is another available registered ASB on that page for $450.00. Looks from the photos of the registration papers, to be 10 yrs old in July.

http://www.ac4h.com/DSC08959.JPG

Also a cute little Morgan gelding.
http://www.ac4h.com/DSC08915.JPG


One of these days I would like to try dressage with an ASB. I have heard and seen Harry Callahan, and I've often thought they this breed might be good for dressage.....as long as the back is not TOO long.

Maybe the day will soon come to get a horse of another breed into my warmblood infested home :)

[caffeinated]

May I quote you on the annual ASHA member's survey I have sitting here on my desk ???!!!!:D


heh, I never understood that whole FIREY SADDLEBRED!!!! thing either. Sorta like TBs and Arabs.... I'm not a ASHA member nor in the market for another horse anytime soon, but am bothered by the Saddlebred "rep"-

Every one I've ever met has been a really lovely horse, with a great temperament.

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL914/489204/1721616/40989549.jpg

That's my mom and me on my grandfather's saddlebred stallion. :) (yes, those are side reins, and we are not in helmets. oops). He did everything- western, english, driving, jumping... and he spent a lot of time giving pony rides to clueless kids. :)

(sorry, tangent!)

[War Admiral]

the rescue director said, "Careful...that one's a saddlebred...and they're always a little nutzy."

Niiiiiiiiiice. :rolleyes: THAT's gonna get it adopted out real quick.

Care to PM me with the name of the rescue so I know which one to NOT give money to?

[CA ASB]

Cupcake -

Here's another video of yet another ASB who is just starting his dressage work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YHPP68yGS8&feature=channel

In the video, he's only had 7 months under saddle.