Anyone want to chime in on bit advice?

[caevent]

I have a mare who is competing training, schooling prelim. So far she's run all three phases in the same thick, loose ring KK snaffle. As I plan to move her up sometime this year, I feel like I'm going to need something a little stronger to be able to gallop and bring her back more efficiently, as well as having her ridable on the landing side of a jump (i.e. bending line downhill combination with skinny as last element). Any advice from the wise out there? I did try a full-cheek Dr. Bristol and have vetoed that, as she felt very hard-mouthed in it.

BTW, I will still do all of her schooling in the KK, but would like to have more bit for showtime. Thanks!:winkgrin:

[Foxtrot's]

I used a full cheek copper snaffle with a slim mouthpiece for x-c on my prelim TB. He was electric in it, but only used it on THE day.

[takethestage]

I'm a big fan of waterfords. My pony is forward and likes to flatten out, but with the (full-cheek)waterford, he isn't able to grab the bit and run. Now granted, I'm only competing Novice, but I've found it gives me the right amount of control without backing him off too much.

[RiverBendPol]

Keep her in the same bit and practice your 1/2 halts, steering with your legs, etc. Just bc you're going faster and jumping more technical stuff doesn't mean you need a bigger bit. My Intermediate horse went in a plain snaffle his whole life-and never a running martingale either. It is all in the training.

[basil's mom]

I agree with RBP. I use the same type of loose ring snaffle for all phases, on all horses. I have had everything from a prelim OTTB to a draft cross and several in-between. All have gone in a big french link. Once in a while I may school in a gag at home if I feel like they are ignoring my 1/2 halts, but I rarely need to do that.

[gardenie]

Bit advice is a little like clothing advice...if you like the clothes you are wearing, you aren't going to like someone saying they don't like it. If you are married to the idea you need more bit, then by all means, try it. Maybe just a thinner version of what you are already riding her in...it will give her a different feel without really being uncomfortable.

Mares are funny. They need to be asked, they have a self preservation aspect that is WONDERFUL, and so...you may ought to just suck up that first show in your regular tack and have an open mind. If you put too much in, you might scare her. Ask me how I know this....

Many of us tend to get a little stiff armed when we are doing something new. More bit is not helpful in that situation...

[GBTeventing]

I think the goal in every case is to be able to ride all three phases in a loose ring but unfortunately that is not always the case. Also, I have strong objections to people saying you just need to train your horse better. There's often more to it than that and other things to consider (like horse type, past experience, etc.).

I pick the bit for the horse and I would never say that they all need to conform to it. I am in no way advocating slapping them into a double twisted wire gag but some times a little more or a little less is the answer.

For instance, my big guy is super sensitive to the bit on the flat. The loose rings, and I tried thick, thin, Dr. Bristol, french link, bits with wings, ect... are just too fussy for him. He like a big, fat, hollowmouth snaffle the best.

However, he is the total opposite to jump. He doesn't bolt, run, dash, duck, dive or anything but he is strong so after some experimenting he now goes in a Myler combination bit. He is the only one of my horses that I've had to bit up, as I really would love it if they'd all go in a snaffle...but this works for him and for the most part he gallops on a loose rein.

I would much rather see any rider with a little bit more bit (again, not saying harsh, but something different that works for them) and be able to ride on a light, soft rein than somebody hauling on the horse and see-sawing before the fences and then having to jerk their horse into a circle to slow them down after. It's a pet peeve of mine and in more than one case the horse was being advertised as "x-c machine goes all three phases in a snaffle"....might be true but.... I also believe that a big bit in educated hands should not be more harsh to the horse than a snaffle in uneducated hands.

My suggestions would be to borrow as many as you can and try them. It might be a matter of just finding a different snaffle that he respects a bit more. One of my mares goes in a loose ring on the flat and a fulmer XC. I like the loose ring eggbut snaffle by Mikmar and it seems to keep them a bit lighter without being strong. Depending on the horse I like hackamores and Waterfords. I do not like anything with a curb chain...pelhams or kimberwicks. If the hackamore has a chain I always cover it with fleece. Gags are ok, again, depending on the hand they're in... best I can say is to experiment. Good luck!

[scubed]

I have found with several TBs, just switching from loose ring to fixed makes a difference. I really liked running in the D ring KK (ridiculously expensive, but IMHO worth it). I also really like the KK Butterfly Baucher for jumping (wish it were legal for dressage). That said, I also agree with posts that it shouldn't be about the bit, but since I currently ride a horse that jumps in a kimberwicke, I'm certainly not of the school that says if you can't do it in a fat snaffle, you shouldn't be out there. A lot of horses need a little more bit as they get fitter (and sometimes, cheekier) as they move up the levels

[riderboy]

I've had to do a lot of experimentation with my boy. Of course training and proper riding are important but sometimes you need more bit. The western folks make fun of us with our rein contact but then they have these giant curb bits that the slightest pressure engages. I tried to ride my TB/Irish draft cross XC in my dressage bit ONCE! I felt like I had an 18 wheeler with no power steering or brakes and I was coming into a toll booth! It was not pretty. I got more bit but also worked on my seat and flat work.

[caevent]

Thanks for all the input, everyone!

Re: correct training vs. bitting up. I knew I was going to get the responses to work on the training, which is exactly why I noted that I will continue all the horse's schooling in the KK bit. However, I also think it can be kinder to the horse, not to mention more energy efficient, to have a slightly stronger bit when in a competition situation, where you just have to get on with it, get things done, and focus on the next question. No do-overs. No "that wasn't quite as rhythmic as I would have liked. Let's do that again."

What would all of you say about the CCI**** horse who is being shown in a gag, combination bit, lever noseband, twisted wire, etc? I know that a training level horse thinking of prelim does not compare in any way to the elite level, but just curious as to where we draw the line? When is it okay to go to the hardware? Any thoughts?

This also reminds me of the snaffle vs. double bridle argument in dressage. I believe that every FEI horse should be able to perform in the snaffle, however, the double does give that extra bit of refinement.

Okay, stream of conciousness finished! :lol:

[Snapdragon]

I've had good luck with the dream, or wonder, bit with one horse and a happy mouth mullen pessoa bit with another. I experimented a lot with the one who goes in the pessoa before finding that this was the perfect one for her. It was like having a different horse.

[Dr. Doolittle]

I think the goal in every case is to be able to ride all three phases in a loose ring but unfortunately that is not always the case. Also, I have strong objections to people saying you just need to train your horse better. There's often more to it than that and other things to consider (like horse type, past experience, etc.).

I pick the bit for the horse and I would never say that they all need to conform to it. I am in no way advocating slapping them into a double twisted wire gag but some times a little more or a little less is the answer.

For instance, my big guy is super sensitive to the bit on the flat. The loose rings, and I tried thick, thin, Dr. Bristol, french link, bits with wings, ect... are just too fussy for him. He like a big, fat, hollowmouth snaffle the best.

However, he is the total opposite to jump. He doesn't bolt, run, dash, duck, dive or anything but he is strong so after some experimenting he now goes in a Myler combination bit. He is the only one of my horses that I've had to bit up, as I really would love it if they'd all go in a snaffle...but this works for him and for the most part he gallops on a loose rein.

I would much rather see any rider with a little bit more bit (again, not saying harsh, but something different that works for them) and be able to ride on a light, soft rein than somebody hauling on the horse and see-sawing before the fences and then having to jerk their horse into a circle to slow them down after. It's a pet peeve of mine and in more than one case the horse was being advertised as "x-c machine goes all three phases in a snaffle"....might be true but.... I also believe that a big bit in educated hands should not be more harsh to the horse than a snaffle in uneducated hands.

My suggestions would be to borrow as many as you can and try them. It might be a matter of just finding a different snaffle that he respects a bit more. One of my mares goes in a loose ring on the flat and a fulmer XC. I like the loose ring eggbut snaffle by Mikmar and it seems to keep them a bit lighter without being strong. Depending on the horse I like hackamores and Waterfords. I do not like anything with a curb chain...pelhams or kimberwicks. If the hackamore has a chain I always cover it with fleece. Gags are ok, again, depending on the hand they're in... best I can say is to experiment. Good luck!

This is excellent advice.

Every horse is an individual (*especially* mares! :lol:), and they respond in different ways to different methods of control. Their response will vary, based on a variety of things--and may depend (for example) on what their agenda is; how worked up they are on a given day (and at competitions, in general); how much experience (hence confidence) they have; how much a stronger bit "offends their sensibilities"; their mood during competition; how much they tune out other aids by the rider (we are assuming, here, an educated rider who knows how to use all the aids, not just the reins ;)); their degree of sensitivity; their desire to "blow off the rider and be in control", etc. etc...

(Can you tell that I own a mare? :winkgrin:)

Anyway, yes--*ideally* EVERY horse would be able to go WELL in every phase in a loose ring snaffle, however, that's simply not the case. If indeed you have educated hands, can use halts halts effectively, and are sensitive to what influences your individual horse (and know the nuances of her responses, and can "counter respond" appropriately), then experiment with other slightly more potent bits (like the Waterford and the Wonder Bit), and see whether it makes a difference. What you're looking for (I'm intuiting) is not "extra brakes for those Oh Shit moments", but simply a way to refine your control so as to avoid getting into a fight with her when she tunes you out and wants to blow THROUGH those half halts (and avoid having to waterski off her mouth to get her to throttle back.) The balancing act with mares is to find something that will not result in them getting "fussy" whenever you take a feel, or back off the contact. They are such opinionated creatures! :rolleyes:

I recently got a new bit (have a Waterford Dee and a Wonder Bit, both of which I use for x-country; I usually jump her at home in a Baucher snaffle) It's a new Stubben gag--very mild and not much leverage--it's designed to release *any* poll pressure when the horse gives even a little to the bending aids (which is my mare's issue), and this release occurs even BEFORE the rider softens the rein in response to the horse giving. A reward to the horse that teaches it to give, but the bit is not at all harsh (KK ultra snaffle mouthpiece), and so far (at home) my mare has been SO respectful of this that she requires mere ounces of pressure from me; I don't have to press the issue with her (and she's notoriously "non submissive" :p), and as a result, I am able to be VERY light and tactful. It remains to be seen whether she will begin to get "fussy" about letting ME be in charge in this very subtle way...:lol: I plan to try to use it in a jumping clinic this weekend.

Don't feel guilty about seeking an appropriate tool to get the job done; you sound like a sensitive and thoughtful rider who is putting a lot of thought into prioritizing your horse's welfare and comfort.

[asterix]

Agree with Dr D, especially that last sentence.

I too think schooling comes before bitting, and that many people go to the gear before they go to work, but I'm very, very happy to switch "up" to my jumping bits for my two horses;

Big horse just moved to Prelim; goes from french link on flat to wonder bit for jumping -- just for the reasons the OP originally stated. After trying in vain to package his enthusiasm going down to the coffin on a training course (so, no packaged coffin canter, just sort of plowing through), I asked my VERY conservative **** coach, who was watching, if that was bad riding. She said, no, that was 1500 lbs of 17.2h joy against 120 lbs. You need a new bit. :D And it really does the trick beautifully.

Young novice horse, 17h draft cross. Big boy. Can get cocky on course; full body half halts are a lot of work. Bumped him from a full cheek snaffle to a dr. bristol -- much, much easier!!!

[mythical84]

To expand on Dr. D and Asterix's points a little, I would rather be able to be really soft with a rubber pelham, than have to fight with a rubber snaffle.

[mkevent]

Some really excellent advice here-especially agree with trying various bits to see which works best for you. Another thought-what noseband are you using and if you tried a different noseband would that help? My guy now goes in a slow twist D and that seems to work for us for XC- I use a figure 8 noseband for XC and a flash for stadium. He goes in a french link for dressage

[purplnurpl]

Keep her in the same bit and practice your 1/2 halts, steering with your legs, etc. Just bc you're going faster and jumping more technical stuff doesn't mean you need a bigger bit. My Intermediate horse went in a plain snaffle his whole life-and never a running martingale either. It is all in the training.

Ditto

With some horses once you bump up to the faster speed on a full course it's easier to bring them back then previously.

My horse was a stiff hard headed jerk at times on a Training course.
Once being pushed to go faster on the Prelim course he was more then happy to come back easily.

Or try a copper mouthpiece in the same type of bit. (either one or two links not sure what you have)