Low starch diet

[cosmos mom]

I know there have been threads on this, but they aren't readily coming up in a search, but what is the best commercial low starch diet? Safe Choice? Thriple Crown? others? Thanks in advance!

[MunchkinsMom]

While I don't use it, I liked what I saw on the feed sheet for Blue Seal Carb-Guard:

http://www.blueseal.com/equine/productpages/8_Carb-Guard.pdf

[ThoroughbredFancy]

I have my TB on Vintage Performance Low Starch. I like it a lot...so does the other boarder that feeds it to her QH.

Two other horses at my barn are on Carb-Guard and they do well with it.

I would recommend either of those feeds.

[SS189]

Buckeye Safe and Easy is about 11.5 % NSC

Best feed I have ever fed my herd!!

[oldenmare]

Have my Insulin Resistance mare and my ulcer-prone gelding on the Triple Crown Senior. Works like a charm at keeping them happy and healthy - then again, both are EASY keepers.

I also feed it to my 23 yr old TB mare and her 2 1/2 yr old filly - both are harder keepers - it helps them maintain healthy weight without a lot of carbs(sugars) - which they don't need.

I also supplement in winter with beet pulp.

[monstrpony]

Turns out Safe Choice isn't the best for low starch, in spite of its intentions.

TC Lite (for easy keepers), TC Low Starch, and TC Sr are all good, as is Blue Seal Carb Guard. Have had satisfactory experiences with all of these.

[Melelio]

We use Blue Seal Carb Guard once my TSC started to carry it regularly. They post right on the bag that they're 11% or below on starch/carbs.... The horses like it (of course they do , they're starving otherwise, poor muzzled overweight beasts LOL) But no problems with it in almost 2 years.

[lstevenson]

I love Triple Crown Low Starch.

[Evalee Hunter]

Buckeye Safe and Easy is about 11.5 % NSC

Best feed I have ever fed my herd!!

Don't know where you got your numbers, but, here is the true NSC according to Buckeye:

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Buckeye Safe ’n Easy Pelleted
Crude Protein, Min. 12.00%
Lysine, Min. 0.60%
Methionine, Min. 0.19%
Threonine, Min. 0.40%
Crude Fat, Min. 6.00%
Crude Fiber, Max. 20.00%
NSC* (Starch plus Sugar), Max. 12.5%
Calcium, Min. 0.80%
Max. 1.30%
Phosphorus, Min. 0.65%
Potassium, Min. 0.85%
Magnesium, Min. 0.40%
Manganese, Min. 90 ppm
Copper, Min. 55 ppm
Zinc, Min. 170 ppm
Selenium, Min. 0.7 ppm
Vitamin A, Min. 4000 IU/lb
Vitamin D, Min. 400 IU/lb
Vitamin E, Min. 150 IU/lb

and the textured feed:

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Buckeye Safe ’n Easy Texturized
Crude Protein, Min. 12.00%
Lysine, Min. 0.60%
Methionine, Min. 0.19%
Threonine, Min. 0.40%
Crude Fat, Min. 6.00%
Crude Fiber, Max. 20.00%
NSC* (Starch plus Sugar), Max. 16.5%
Calcium, Min. 0.80%
Max. 1.30%
Phosphorus, Min. 0.65%
Potassium, Min. 0.85%
Magnesium, Min. 0.40%
Manganese, Min. 90 ppm
Copper, Min. 55 ppm
Zinc, Min. 170 ppm
Selenium, Min. 0.7 ppm
Vitamin A, Min. 4000 IU/lb
Vitamin D, Min. 400 IU/lb
Vitamin E, Min. 150 IU/lb

*NSC stands for nonstructural carbohydrate which reflects the sugar and starch content of a feedstuff.

[Caitlynsmom]

Anyone have any experience feeding Purina L/S.
I'm having to pay $26.50 a bag which seems really high,
but I can't find anything else but Safe Choice here.

[CatchaBreeze]

I use WellSolve weight control and have had good results. I use Ultium on our other horse. It is a low starch feed.

[Caitlynsmom]

It's the Wellsolve L/S that's made by Purina that I'm using also.
What are you paying for it $26 just seems high.

[theoldgreymare]

I tried to save myself some money when our feed store became a Buckeye dealer and switched from TC LS to Buckeye's version. My ponies did not do well on the Buckeye Safe N Easy (increased crestiness on some, poor coats, etc) so we went back to Triple Crown Low Starch and will stay there.

[cosmos mom]

Thanks all! I believe my local feed store carries the TC lite, so I'll probably pick that- great advice :)

[unclewiggly]

Love the Purina product pay close to $24. bag (just got 6) love it for horse w/ big time tummy/ulcer issues. Made a new horse out of him.
i weight the feed so i make sure he gets the correct manufacture recommended amounts.:)

[marta]

is this for a metabolically challenged horse?

[Auventera Two]

Anyone have any experience feeding Purina L/S.
I'm having to pay $26.50 a bag which seems really high,
but I can't find anything else but Safe Choice here.

YES! I LOVE IT! My foundered pony can eat a full pound of it every day with her supplements and it does not affect her at ALL. She could NOT eat a full pound of Safechoice without getting sore. :no: Yes, its extra calories that she technically does not need, but the other two get enough to be eating for 15 minutes to 1 hour (depending on the horse.) When she gets just a little handful, she paws at the gate, and nickers and is really unhappy. With 1 pound, she truly feels satisifed, like she "ate her grain" and then she sticks her nose in her hay without saying another peep. This mare was used to eating free choice corn sileage her whole life with her old owner, so she was feeling REALLY jipped by not getting "grain." She gets a little soaked beet pulp with it too, but not much.

Yes, it's like $27 a bag here, but WELL WORTH IT.

I also use it in the the mix that I feed the other two. I mix it in a big rubbermaid garbage can with oats and BOSS. The Arab gets 2 pounds of the mix a day, and the QH gets 1 pound. The foundered pony gets 1 pound of pure L/S without the oats and BOSS.

I've been using it for probably 6 months now and am VERY impressed.

[BuddyRoo]

Forgive me...but I don't so much understand the "low starch" trend. IE: I think it's a market for horses who really don't NEED any grain at all.

If it's just a matter of giving a handful to mix supps, I prefer pelleted beet pulp.

I have a horse who is IR and got lots of suggestions about "low starch" feeds...thing is, she doesn't need a bit of it. Not at all. None.

[Auventera Two]

I use it as part of my mix to cut down the overall amount of sugar going into the horse. My mix is 1/3 oats, 1/3 BOSS and 1/3 Wellsolve. I "could" use straight oats but then the sugar content is higher than I want.

You can get calories in the form of fat and protein without getting excess sugar, and that's the point of low starch preparations.

Beet pulp is much better than feeding a "grain" to an IR horse, but it can still be higher than a tested low NSC prepared feed, like Wellsolve. I can't aford to test every bag of beet pulp I get, so the foundered pony gets "some" beet pulp, but also a pound of a known low NSC feed. Besides, if it tests too high, then what? Throw it away? :confused:

Contrary to what people assume, IR horses still need calories. Being diabetic doesn't necessarily mean the horse is fat and needs nothing but a cup of sand and a drink of water. They still need high quality feed, but it just has to be lower in sugar. You don't fedd them crap, or junk, or nothing. You feed high quality feeds that are tested to be low in NSC.

And my Arab is not metabolic, or foundered, or anything, but the breed is VERY prone to it, so I prefer to supplement a third of her overall ration with a low NSC feed, and BOSS which is around 6% NSC instead of giving her straight oats. She's still getting calories per pound of food, but just not so much sugar. I do feed her a high powered grain like XTN or Omolene as a little ad-on when she's really working hard, but when she's not working hard she doesn't get it.

True that most horses founder because they're just too fat and they don't work! But also with slaughter houses shut down, MANY more foundered horses are being adopted out and going to new homes. Years ago they would have been euthanized, or just died because info wasn't available on how to keep them going. But with new technology and new knowledge, foundered horses are now living and even recovering to go back to light work. Years ago that would have almost never happened. So these foundered horses need something to eat.

Years ago we didn't have all these "adoption" resources we have today. Foundered horses were just euthanized and the human moved on. Today these horses are kept alive MUCH longer than they ever used to be.

Same deal with Cushingoid horses. As technology and feeds improve, tack improves, etc. horses are living into their 30s and 40s, which puts them at much higher risk of developing metobolic diseases, and as such we have to have a way to care for them.

There's a saying in human medicine "We're VERY good at keeping people alive, but we're terrible at keeping them healthy." Horses are staying alive more due to more technology and changing times so we need to have resources available to keep them healthy.

[godoget]

1) there is no data that says how low is low enough
2) the measure that most companies use is NSC which is not actually a very good measure of the carbohydrate fractions that you need to be concerned about

The NRC Committee addressed this to some degree by dividing carbs into hydrolyzable, rapidly fermented and slowly fermented "fiber" fractions. NSC includes some of the rapidly fermentable fiber which are not a problem in insulin resistant horses. How much of the NSC is rapidly fermentable depends on the grain sources used. A better measurement would be to measure starch and water soluble sugars. This would give horse owners the opportunity to choose feeds based on the hydrolyzable cardbohydrate content. As it is you only get part of the story using NSC. That's one reason you see varying results across and even within manufactures feed lines. You also need to keep in mind that the grain is only a portion of the diet. Forages contain sugars and starches as well. If you need to feed grain to your insulin resistant horse, split it up into as many small meals as you can reasonably manage.

[cosmos mom]

Forgive me...but I don't so much understand the "low starch" trend. IE: I think it's a market for horses who really don't NEED any grain at all.

If it's just a matter of giving a handful to mix supps, I prefer pelleted beet pulp.

I have a horse who is IR and got lots of suggestions about "low starch" feeds...thing is, she doesn't need a bit of it. Not at all. None.

My guy needs feed for the calories- he works pretty hard most of the year. He is TB/Appy/Cleveland Bay. He's never foundered or had an issue, but his mom foundered before and I'd rather not take a chance and, having played with his diet a little over the last few years, he seems to do better on less carbs.

[Gunnar]

I recently began using the Wellsolve for my Cushings WB. He got Ultium before that. I am now mixing them. He seem to like it? (Picky eater) It is not as yummy looking as the Ultium.:D

I give this horse a small amount of each (one small white scoop of each). He needs a base for his other supplements (Vit E and Sel, Electrolytes and Biotin, Pergolide and Previcox) He is in full work and not overweight. He gets grass hay twice a day too! So far so good but it was probably $26! Good thing he does not get too much.:eek: I have two horses and the other gets Ultium as her base! (draft horse on higher fat diet!)

I have used Triple Crown Light but I am unable to get it. :mad:

[Montanas_Girl]

Forgive me...but I don't so much understand the "low starch" trend. IE: I think it's a market for horses who really don't NEED any grain at all.

That's probably true in a lot of cases. I'm kind of grateful for the trend, though. My horse is allergic to (among other things) corn, oats, and molasses. He isn't a hard keeper, but he needs some supplemental calories to maintain his weight, and of course he still needs to meet his protein, vitamin, and mineral needs. He is doing very, very well on TC Lite right now.

[marta]

my mare eats 3 lbs of TC Lite per day. she's cushings and IR and a hard keeper who doesn't gorge on hay either. that feed is a lifesaver for us b/c it gives her calories she needs and is willing to eat.
it is often difficult to keep the weight on a Cushings horse. same w/ other metabolically challenged horses. you don't want to starve them. once these so called "easy keepers" are pulled off of grass it often turns out they're not such easy keepers afterall.
my mare used to get a small handful of grain when i first got her. she was always pudgy. thought of as an easy keeper. wish i knew then what i know now about metabolically challenged horses and their dietary needs.

[MSP]

Anyone have any experience feeding Purina L/S.
I'm having to pay $26.50 a bag which seems really high,
but I can't find anything else but Safe Choice here.

I just started using it. It is my only option in my area for low NSC feed. I am paying $26 a bag and they only order at most 4 bags a month so its a first come basis!

So far it is helping my mare an pony get through the winter but the price and availability is killer!

[Auventera Two]

I also have to special order it, 2 bags at a time.

ASK FOR COUPONS AT YOUR VET CLINIC. Purina put out these big honkin' coupon books full of Wellsolve coupons - $15 off per bag!! :eek: I had to exercise unbelievable restraint to not rip out like 28 coupons. The lady behind the desk was watching me so I only took two then cursed myself for not stuffing the whole damned book in my shirt and running like hell. But anyway......

If you ask, they might know where to get the coupons.

[BornToRide]

Forgive me...but I don't so much understand the "low starch" trend. IE: I think it's a market for horses who really don't NEED any grain at all.

If it's just a matter of giving a handful to mix supps, I prefer pelleted beet pulp.

I have a horse who is IR and got lots of suggestions about "low starch" feeds...thing is, she doesn't need a bit of it. Not at all. None.I very much feel the same way. Save your money, feed more hay and supplement with a low NSC product like Equipride for example.

This way you also reduce the amount of crap you could potentially feed your horse, because of what the manufacturers like to throw into the mix to produce as cheaply as possible!

[MSP]

Let me explain the need!

Beet pulp! Yeah right! IF my feed store has it maybe 6 months out of the year they buy the sweet stuff. Pain in the asre and my pony will not eat it!

So year round I use bagged chopped alfalfa hay to give supplements and get them in the stalls. They are on a hay and pasture diet.

Problem came this winter with my crappy hay! My horses are ribby and obviously not getting what they need from the hay. They walk away from the hay and it has turned into bedding!

So I either ignore them and let them get skinny or buy some grain! Getting ready to buy more hay so hopefully can find better quality as well. Both horse and pony are metabolic, pony is recovering from rotation in 3 feet, so I don't want to put them on just any feed!

Hence the need for a low NSC feed. Not to worry they won't be on the grain for long, I would bet the next time I am at the feed store they will be out!

[BornToRide]

Problem came this winter with my crappy hay! My horses are ribby and obviously not getting what they need from the hay. They walk away from the hay and it has turned into bedding!

Have you had the hay tested? Perhaps your horses have too much of a sweet tooth and that's why they do not want to eat it. It is perhaps lower in NSCs, which would actually be better for them.

[Jenn2674]

While not every horse needs to go as low as some, I can't imagine any horse needs a sweet feed that is 45% NSC. I am glad that there are feeds out there for a normal healthy horse that isn't loaded with grains and molasses. My working horse needs the calories. He gets all the hay he can eat but he still thins out in the winter so he gets TC complete. I like it because it is textured, not pelleted, and relatively low in NSC so it doesn't have too much added molasses and other grains. At around 20% NSC it probably isn't as low as it should be for a metabolically challenged horse (and I disagree, while not much in the horse world is 100% confirmed, there is quite a bit of evidence out there about a reasonable cutoff for NSC and it's validity) but it is perfectly fine for a normal healthy horse IMO.

Most of the low carb feeds are basically a vit/min supplement with added omegas a little fat, protein, etc. Most are really just a supplement not a feed and even fat and IR horses need those things. They are formulated for people that can't feasibly test every batch of hay.

Do I think that people automatically jump on the "it's IR" at the slightest whim? yes. Do I think that every horse needs to be fed a 10% or less NSC diet? no. But I do think that typical, traditional sweet feed is as bad for the general horse population as fast food is for the children of america. A couple of cups or a treat is not likely to hurt anything, but pounds and pounds of it every day, most definately could.

Horse nutrition has come along way and I for one am glad.

[Chief2]

Okay, for the past several winters I fed SafeChoice, bp, cocosoya, vit/min supplement per day, with a lot of good grass hay/warm water and the horses looked fantastic!

This winter I feed SafeChoice, bp, cocosoya. vit/min supplement and the same amount of the same good hay and warm water, and the horse looks like crap. He passed his October physical with flying colors this year (on grass, bp and vit/min supplement).

So, I know the bp, Cocosoya and vit/min supplement haven't changed, and I know the hay farmer. The hay is coming out of the same fields it did last year, to the same bale count per field, so that leaves me with one option left that has changed: The SafeChoice. I seem to remember that when they first started there were vegetable oils in it, which are no longer on the label, and from what I am now seeing on the label, I am wondering if I am basically feeding high sugar floor sweepings to my horse this year.

I am buying Carb Guard on Saturday and changing him over to that.
I used to love SafeChoice, too. So sad. :(

[murphyluv]

and for that reason I don't feed any commercial feeds anymore. I know that each company has tons of research behind their feeds, and I appreciate that, and I know there are some very good quality feeds out there.
But for me, since I feed my own horse, I just do beep/hay cubes, soaked, with a whole food multi-vit supplement, and flax. On EVERY feed I tried (safechoice, triple crown, purina, and one other) he had skin issues, leaky gut, etc. Also with any synthetic multivite or joint supplement. or the joint supplement would work for a while, but then he'd get digestive issues. He's doing much better on this approach, and I will try the company's joint supplement- whole food based, and will probably just do Adequan if I get to that point.
I realize it's not feasable to make your own "mix" and soak if you are at a boarding barn, or are limited on time, but I prefer knowing exactly, everyday, what is going into my horse, without fillers or byproducts. However, if he was truly metabolic (not just an easy keeper), I may be concerned about fluctuating amounts of molasses in the beet pulp.

[Chief2]

Yes, it is frustrating. I have never had a grain bail out on me like this, though. I went back to boarding some time ago, and I have to do the soaked foods myself, which is fine. But, he is turned out for me in the morning before I come in to clean the stall, so that means feeding the soaked foods when I return in the evening during the winter. Once the grass comes in, he'll be outside full time and off of the grain. In the meantime, I'm picking up a bag of Carb Guard on Saturday and starting the switch over. :yes: