Ithaca (NY), Davis/Berkeley (CA), or Urbana (IL)? Help me out! [Archive]

cleozowner

Jan. 13, 2009, 06:10 AM

COTHers, help me decide!
My fiance and I are in the process of applying to grad school (I want to get my DVM, he's going for a PhD in chemistry--yeah, he's a chem geek :D). We're getting married in July, so soon we'll be looking for an apartment that can fit our cats/dog (our version of a blended family--my dog meeting his two cats!) and a stable for my TB mare.
Our top 3 choices right now are Ithaca, NY (we both got into Cornell-yay!), Urbana, IL (both still waiting to hear), and somewhere between Davis and Berkeley, CA (he got into UC Berkeley, I'm still waiting to hear from UC Davis). Could these places be any more different?
I tend not to get my hopes up, but for the moment I'm going to assume that we do end up with two or three choices. What's the horsey scene like? Anything we should know about the horsey life or just living there in general? I'm an eventer, but I don't have to be at an eventing barn. Are there any nice barns close to any of these schools? In Ithaca and Illinois I would need an indoor arena; it might not be as necessary in California (at least it's warmer there). My mare needs a good amount of turnout, too--even pasture board.
Any thoughts/suggestions?

classicsporthorses

Jan. 13, 2009, 06:53 AM

Congrats on getting into Cornell and getting married. I can tell you the generalities about Ithaca.

For a small city, approximately 30,000 residents that swells to double that when Cornell and Ithaca College are in session, it's a nice eclectic city. I grew up there and most of my family is still there. Mom and dad moved there in 1958 when he started to teach at Cornell. But, scratch the surface and it's still a small town-from rednecks to cross dressers you'll see them all at Wegmans (grocery store that will blow your mind).

Rents are higher than "normal" for this area b/c of the influence of Cornell, and it's a big influence. But you will find places that are pet friendly. As for the horse scene. It's not a big eventing area at all. More back yard/pleasure, lower key shows, western, some hunter jumper barns than big fancy show barns.

With that being said, there are still many wide open spaces and wonderful people who have barns. Ours is in the next county, about 20 miles from Cornell. Depending on what you are seeking for amenities, you can pay anywhere from 250-800+ for a stall. Some have good turn out some have really none. Don't assume the higher price tag is better care in all cases either.

Vets are plentiful and so are farriers, again good ones and not so good ones. I am more than happy to answer any other questions.

Oh, it's one of the top ten cloudy cities in the US, it's the influene of Cayuga Lake, but it is beautiful here.

Ray

Jan. 13, 2009, 07:04 AM

CA all the way! My spouse did equine physiology research at Davis and I have colleagues there (yes another science geek) so PM me .....

equineartworks

Jan. 13, 2009, 07:11 AM

Ithaca just rocks...plain and simple. Gorgeous up and coming area and where we spend the majority of our free time. Cornell campus is beautiful.

Rents are high in town, but if you don't mind a tiny commute of 20 miles or so you can grab a nice house with acreage for less than $75K or $500 per month. In town? You'll pay dearly. The weather can be extreme and a Suburu or old Volvo is your best friend. My ancient Volvo 240 has provided me with 300K commuting miles over the years...it's definitely doable to live outside of town. The smaller cars are actually better than the SUV's or trucks because Ithaca is nestled inside the steep gorges. You'll be driving some ski slopes, with some of the steepest inclines on the east coast. I would venture that at least half of the student population commutes at least 15 miles to campus.

Now that I have put the bad part behind me...

Cornell is a world class school with some of the best equine, large animal and small animal veterinary facilities in the county. The veterinary populace and farrier populace is outstanding. There are several stabling opportunities, but look closely. You don't always get what you pay for. It might be cheaper to look for a rental home like I mentioned above.

Not only is there Cayuga lake, but you are literally a hop skip and jump to several others. For example, Skaneateles (http://www.skaneateles.com/) has awesome polo matches on Sundays during the summer, plus it is a lovely, lovely town for boutique-y shopping. Pack a basket with some nice wine and cheese and spend the afternoon on the lawn watching the ponies with the glorious views of lake as your background.

Don't forget we are also the hub of the NYS wine (http://www.fingerlakeswinecountry.com/) industry. The lakes are filled with established and new up and coming wineries. There are top notch eateries as well, some small and eclectic and others large and sophisticated...trust me...I am a part time private chef and caterer. Food is amazing here with more restaurants per capita than NYC.

If you come to visit, drop me a PM if you want a tour. I love to drag people around the lakes :lol:

JustJumpIt!

Jan. 13, 2009, 07:12 AM

Cornell, all the way. I spent ten years there (BA, MA, and PhD), rode at most of the local barns, and loved it. PM me for more info on specific barns... I'd be happy to chat!

TikiSoo

Jan. 13, 2009, 07:24 AM

Wow, we upstate NYers are a die hard bunch. Our winters can be brutal, but Ithaca offers great outdoor activities like hiking, skiing and 'boarding to get you through it. Ithaca has one of the strongest "granola" factors of any upstate NY town, so you'll come across quite a few "mellow old hippie" types like myself. Less of the high powered business types, so it's a relaxed atmosphere.
I agree with all previous posters about outlying towns like Skanny, and would add going south to Binghamton, Owego & PA can be fun day trips as well.

equineartworks

Jan. 13, 2009, 07:28 AM

hehheeee... I'm a little crunchy myself TikiSoo :lol:

cleozowner

Jan. 13, 2009, 07:41 AM

Thanks so much for the info! Great to see I have some resources when the barn search begins in earnest...COTH will be my first stop!
I know my fiance's parents would like us to choose Cornell...they live in the Allentown, PA area (I grew up there, as well), and love doing the winery stops when they visit their other son in Rochester.
Why do the top vet school and chemistry school (Cornell and Berkeley, according to the US News and World Report) have to be clear across the country from each other ?

Roney

Jan. 13, 2009, 08:23 AM

Hey, cleozowner, small world - I was about to post and saw your most recent post - I grew up in Bethlehem!
I was going to comment on the Urbana thing... I lived in Central IL for three years before moving back to the East Coast - and really liked it there - but there's not much choice in the way of eventing, or english barns in general, out there (although there are a few). Also, quality equine practitioners (farrier, vet, saddle fitters, etc., although if you're at UofI, you should be all set on the vet front!) are sometimes hard to find as well, and you generally have to travel 2.5+ hours to most shows. On the PLUS side, it's super cheap!
All that being said, if you do end up there, and are looking for barns, feel free to PM me... and GOOD LUCK!
(FWIW, I would pick N. Cal - warm, pretty, and they have In-N-Out burger!:lol:)

PalominoMorgan

Jan. 13, 2009, 08:39 AM

As a Cornell alum you know where my vote is going. I'm hoping my niece gets a good package from Ithaca College so she can live in Ithaca and enjoy the town. I didn't have a horse when I was in college so can't tell you much about that. I did like the area so much I stayed in the area after college (with a job.) Living right in Collegetown will cost you a fortune. If you're willing to live out by the mall or even a little further (Dryden, etc.) you will find lots of nice houses for rent reasonably. I was able to find affordable housing on my right out of college salary. (I had dogs and cats too so it can be done.) Rents in town are higher because of the proximity to campus and the fact that parking on campus is not encouraged for undergrads. I didn't bring my car until my 2nd semester of my senior year.

The town is great and I love the area. Ithaca seems to have so many little niches that you can really find your spot and a good circle of friends no matter what you're in to.

monstrpony

Jan. 13, 2009, 08:50 AM

I'm a graduate of the College of Chem at Berkeley myself (undergrad--maaaanny moons ago...), it's a great place to do grad school (so don't tell them I said this) but finding a place for your critters that you can afford in the Bay Area may not be possible. I don't know about the area around Davis, you might be able to do it with the animals living there with you. But, certainly, explore this before you make a decision, because the Bay Area is *expensive* to live, never mind keeping critter family.

equineartworks

Jan. 13, 2009, 09:17 AM

Perfect Pony

Jan. 13, 2009, 11:14 AM

Well I live minutes from Berkeley, work for UC, and take my horse to Davis.

There are very few vet schools and all are great, so IMO choosing by the stature of the school is a mute point. However, what you do want to consider is what you want to do as a vet, their programs, and where you want to live after grauation.

I will never leave CA, and this entire area is simply amazing. You didn't say what type of riding you do, but UC Davis has it's own barn with inexpensive boarding, and in the Fairfield/Vacaville area (where I would want to live with a husband going to Cal) there are very good H/J and dressage barns everywhere. Renting will be much cheaper than Davis or Berkeley in that area, and it will be much easier to ge a house whre you can have your pets. It's certainly not as fun an area as living in Berkeley or Davis would be though! However Berkeley and Davis are a good hour apart, IMO the only way it would be bareable for both of you would be to live in between.

If you did want to pick one place between the two, it would be much easier to commute from Berkeley to Davis as that is against rush hour traffic. Commuting from Davis to Berkeley daily would be a nightmare. I-80 is the worst commute in California!

I have to say, I would not live in upstate NY if you paid me, but for your life it actually sounds like the best option for you to be together and not sped a fortune.

MidlifeCrisis

Jan. 13, 2009, 11:29 AM

Well, I don't think Cornell's chemistry grad program can even be considered in the same class as Berkeley's. I live in Berkeley. I know some people that commute to Davis from here. It's about a 45 minute drive if you don't hit a traffic jam. There also is Amtrak that leaves from Berkeley and goes straight to Davis. Traffic is coming the other way. Sacramento to the East Bay in the am and back in the pm.
I think as a Davis vet student, you're required to live within 30 minutes of the school for when you're on call.
One place that comes to mind that's half way in between is American Canyon.
I agree with Perfect Pony. California over Ithaca, any day:)

mjrtango93

Jan. 13, 2009, 11:47 AM

[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;3800934]Well I live minutes from Berkeley, work for UC, and take my horse to Davis.

I will never leave CA, and this entire area is simply amazing. You didn't say what type of riding you do, but UC Davis has it's own barn with inexpensive boarding, and in the Fairfield/Vacaville area (where I would want to live with a husband going to Cal) there are very good H/J and dressage barns everywhere. Renting will be much cheaper than Davis or Berkeley in that area, and it will be much easier to ge a house whre you can have your pets. It's certainly not as fun an area as living in Berkeley or Davis would be though! However Berkeley and Davis are a good hour apart, IMO the only way it would be bareable for both of you would be to live in between.

QUOTE]

I am at an event barn that is 45 minutes from Davis and about 25 from UC Berk. We have a couple girls attending Davis now that do the travel and still ride with us. For affordability I would agree with the other poster that you will find cheaper rent in Fairfield/Vacaville or even Suisun/Cordelia. That would be about half way for you guys. At UC Davis there are 2 event trainers, one on campus Holly Fox (still teaches the intercollegiate I believe), and one at a nice facility not too far Chris Scarlett (she works at the VMTH by the way). Overall pretty good weather year round, our ground sucks though so an indoor is probably something you will want if you plan on riding year round. We get enough rain and live in mud in the winter that several barns close their outdoor rings for the winter, and if you board in the Vacaville/Davis area gets pretty hot in the summer so you would want the shade (not sure where you are now though or what you think hot it).

linquest

Jan. 13, 2009, 11:49 AM

I've lived in all 3 states (turned down UC Davis for Cornell undergrad, now live in Chicago) and I'd pick Ithaca! My caveat is that I don’t know anything about chem programs. The climate in Ithaca is the best- the winters aren’t THAT bad (says the girl who spent her entire life in SoCal beforehand ;) compared to IL and you really get all 4 seasons! Traffic/commuting would be a breeze compared to what you and your SO would have to do in CA.

I hear the Urbana horse scene is more Western/saddle-seat oriented, but pretty sure there are eventing barns around. Ithaca, I think, has a fairly active DCTA, but I would board locally instead of the ridiculously-priced barn on-campus. I hear that UC Davis has a fantastic facility on-campus though with a cross-country course.

findeight

Jan. 13, 2009, 11:49 AM

Cornell. You both got in and it is a really, really nice area-winter or not. some of the prettiest landscapes and nicest people anywhere.

I just fear that the logistics of him at Berkeley and you at Davis (if you get in) will get old. It's a long way to do it every day either way, traffic sucks and gas is always about the high for the nation. Rents are really high in Berkely and high in Sacramento-also the state capitol. The spots in between are...er...lets just say less desireable and not a whole lot cheaper. You relationship may suffer as well, hard enough with two full time students recently married let alone that kind of drive time between seperate schools.

Urbana? Uh...have a cousin there, family member alumni and very familiar with it. It would be cheaper to live and you can get out of the immediate school area and still be close. Easy maybe 2 1/2 hour drive to Chicago. Small town midwest atmosphere on dead flat plains and cornfields, hot summer and coooold winters. A little limited in non school related activities.

These are all great schools but, being pragmatic, Cornell makes the most sense and California the least here with Illinois in the middle.

poltroon

Jan. 13, 2009, 11:53 AM

Berkeley/Davis is a commute: I would strongly suggest setting yourself up on the Amtrak California route, which would make the commute actually fun. Berkeley is a great city and is a very walking friendly place.

Horses are expensive in California, as is housing, so make sure your budget can handle it. There's plenty going on in eventing and dressage, though.

JustJumpIt!

Jan. 13, 2009, 11:57 AM

Well, related to chem, sort of - the chair of Chemical Engineering at Cornell rides dressage. :) And is a very nice woman.

tkhawk

Jan. 13, 2009, 12:14 PM

The Bay area is a lovely experience. I lived there eight years. The commute can be killing to Davis. My colleague used to commute from Vacaville to SF-but that was nice as he took the ferry. If you don't have kids-American Canyon etc. is kinda out there -nothing like living in Berkeley or SF for a couple. But yeah housing is expensive-cheaper now. Horses-depends on what you are looking for-Castro Valley , Sunol, -east bay 680/580 corridor has a ton of barns in all price ranges . I think there are a few in the Oakland/berkeley/Richmond areas and then a ton in marin/Sonoma counties. www.bayequest.com is a nice resource for anything horsie in the Bay area. But the PITA will be you going to UC Davis. Nice school-but some commute . But as others have said-if you have Amtrak it might be easier(never travelled in it-so can't tell you the time or frequency). But yes as another poster mentioned, if you are heading that way , Berkely to Davis would be best-reverse commute-if you try the Davis to berkeley, you could end up spending hours in your car..

But again it depends-when I moved to LA ,what I considered to be a horrendous commute in the Bay Area, looked like a very normal commute in Los Angeles Area! of course where I moved now-loveley-just not much traffic-just perfect for me. So commute is really what you are used to-to some it is too much and others actually enjoy the time alone!

animaldoc

Jan. 13, 2009, 12:22 PM

Ithaca is great, but despite what the others said, the winters here are actually a little better (having lived in both places). It's cheap to live here and cheap to board horses. Yes, you might have to go farther to show, but as a DVM student you're not really going to have time to show anyway - at least not like before vet school.

Illinois is starting a new veterinary curriculum that is really exciting and will have you in the clinic with patients earlier (starting in first year). Something to ask about at interview day (in Feb).

I wouldn't do the commute between Berkley and Davis (plus it's expensive there) since your time is going to be precious....

Hopefully you have to choose where to go (meaning you get in everywhere you applied!), but maybe the decision will be made for you and you'll end up in Ithaca (where you can both finish your educations).

PM me if you need info about Champaign-Urbana!

findeight

Jan. 13, 2009, 12:43 PM

Just had another thought brought up by previous poster.

TIME.

It is going to be short enough with both of you in intensive studies let alone adding drive time in there. Don't know how you will find time to keep a horse anyplace and the board in California is out there price wise. And getting back and forth is going to add more drive time to your day.

IME it's fine to have a horse in undergraduate situations and many make the time. Vet school, not so much, certainly not with so much time in the car.

I just wouldn't pick a school based on boarding barns and horse activity. All three of these are knee deep in active horse communities and are close (relatively, less then a days drive max) to major competitions. Urbana is going to be the most convenient and affordable if you do have the time for a horse.

I still vote for Cornell.

Peggy

Jan. 13, 2009, 12:46 PM

Based on Chemistry programs I'd go with either Cornell or UCB over Illinois. Not that Illinois is bad, but I think the first two have a better rep. Between Cornell and UCB, it might depend on the specialty which is better, tho overall I'd say maybe UCB (basing this on the fact that I got into Cornell for grad school and wouldn't have though about applying to Berkeley, but that was a long time ago). Illinois used to have a rep of throwing out a certain number of grad students after the first year--they needed bodies to TA the Gen Chem, but didn't have room for them in the research labs (OK, this is hearsay and based on 20+ years ago).

Don't know how the current budget crisis is going to affect California state schools or if it will be worse than a private school.

The car commute from Berkeley to Davis would be better than the other way around, but don't they have decent public transport? I had two students in a similar situation (UCD and U of Pac in Stockton) and they lived somewhere in between, but getting into Stockton is probably easier than getting into Berkeley.

Former students and other people that I have known who went to Davis have really liked it.

Congratulations and good luck!

Vandy

Jan. 13, 2009, 01:23 PM

Just wanted to offer a little plug for Champaign-Urbana! I spent the first 12 years of my life there while my dad was a professor at U of I. As others have mentioned, the English riding scene is quite limited. However, the cost of quality boarding and cost of living in general is quite reasonable. The best thing in my mind about Illinois, is if you are planning on starting a family, it's a great place for kids! Public school system is excellent, and the midwestern hospitality and sense of community is unparalleled in comparison with the (many) other places I've lived.

My favorite activity when I was young was visiting the veterinary school barns at the U of I. I think the students all knew me by name when I was about 4 ;) Oh, and agree with animaldoc - the winters in Urbana are not nearly as bad as in NY!

PalominoMorgan

Jan. 13, 2009, 02:47 PM

forward ride

Jan. 13, 2009, 03:22 PM

wow there's so many Cornell people on this board!

i vote for Cornell too. I kept a horse at a small barn in Freeville (about 7 miles up the road from Cornell). there was an indoor and maybe 20 or so stalls, so pretty big. also, the trails were incredible. i'm not so sure about the eventing scene, but Syracuse isn't too far away and there are big shows there (H/J shows). Cornell itself has a x-country course at its main barn, though it's pretty small from what i remember.

commuting between Berkley and Davis sounds problematic, although I suppose you could find a barn on the way home or something to make your commute have more of a purpose. otherwise it just seems like when you're not in the car, you'll be in class and where do you find time to ride multiple times a week? and play with the cats. and walk the dog. and study.

i also had a fantasic time at cornell, so i am biased :D

Cielo Azure

Jan. 13, 2009, 03:39 PM

You can not commute in the middle of Davis and Berkeley very easily. Otherwise, CA hands-down. I LOVED living in Davis and the whole area is great (pricey though in Davis).

IL (don't go there). The weather is awful. I lived in Chicago for four years, had a great job at the brookfield zoo, Northwestern really wanted my husband to do his residency there and the day my husband graduated from Med school, we were OUT of there (actually the day his last rotation happened in Davis, we were out of there). Seriously, you will not enjoy IL. Cold like that is a bitch to live in, if you are working with and have animals.

People love Ithica. It is like Davis, very hippy-dippy (or at least Davis once was). Good food, lots of great minds. A lot of fun but it gets major snow (eeew).

Davis temps are lovely. I like hot, dry summers and so, it was perfect for me. The vet school there is great. The hospital is to die for. I used to do research there and in the building next door. Good place to do vet school, I took some of the vet path classes for my graduate program and the level of care and professionalism of the hospital is superior.

Watermark Farm

Jan. 13, 2009, 04:21 PM

Davis is a wonderful area and school, small town feel and very horsey. Very warm in summer with mild winters. A plus is the Sacramento Airport is very close for easy travel.

I grew up near Berkeley and you can definitely live there and have a horse nearby, but space is limited and board gets pricey.

As others have said, living mid-way would be best. Fairfield/Vacaville are fairly affordable. But think long and hard about this as the commute going into Berkeley is pretty rough. If your husband to be is taking night classes and off-hours classes, it might be OK.

My best advice to you is to focus on both of you living as close as possible to your schools. Keep your life as simple and easy as possible so that you can focus on school and being happy newlyweds. You being in vet school will be very intense and leave little time for your husband. A commute on top of that could mean that you see each other very little.

My vote is that you both attend Cornell, because you both got in and it's a great place to live (though COLD). Could your fiancee apply to Davis? That would be a great situation if he went there as well! You can't go wrong with either Davis or Cornell.

Congratulations to both of you. What exciting futures you have!

Edgewood

Jan. 13, 2009, 04:43 PM

FYI - Winters in Ithaca aren't THAT bad. It's not like living a little further north in Syracuse or in lake effect land (aka Buffalo). Just buy a good jacket, hat, gloves, and scarf and you'll be fine. BTW if you like to ski or want to learn Greek Peak is nearby and very affordable. ;) I went to Ithaca from southern PA and don't remember cursing about the weather. I DO remember trying to figure out how to get a tray out of the cafeteria so I could go traying (aka sledding) down the hill by West Campus. :)

:lol::lol::lol: Another former Cornell grad here! And I also remember trying to get dinner trays out to go traying on Libe Slope.:lol::lol:

I DID think that the winters were pretty bad in Ithaca, as was the gloomy, cloudy weather. I grew up in Denver CO, with 300 days of sunshine and non-humid cold weather. Upstate NY winters were an eyeopener to say the least. But I LOVED Cornell and thought Ithaca was beautiful (except for the rain and clouds and cold winter).

I cannot comment on the others except that my 2 uncles live in Menlo Park and San Jose and the commutes can be killer plus it is super expensive.

Congrats to the OP and her fiance in getting into these schools!:D

animaldoc

Jan. 13, 2009, 05:23 PM

IL (don't go there). The weather is awful. I lived in Chicago for four years, had a great job at the brookfield zoo, Northwestern really wanted my husband to do his residency there and the day my husband graduated from Med school, we were OUT of there (actually the day his last rotation happened in Davis, we were out of there). Seriously, you will not enjoy IL. Cold like that is a bitch to live in, if you are working with and have animals.

But here in CU we're 2 1/2 hours south of Chicago and it really does make a difference - they just recently got TONS of snow and we only got a dusting, and it's colder there than here. It's also about 10 degrees colder there today than it is here....

Not saying it doesn't get bitter cold here, but the coldest I've EVER been was in a barn in Ithaca (and I've also lived in Michigan and Cleveland!)! :)

eventchic33

Jan. 13, 2009, 05:33 PM

I also vote for Cornell. I did not go there but have sent horses there. The staff is very wonderful and easy to work with. You are also not that far from the Genessee Valley region which is home to Stuart Horse Trials. There is a huge eventing scene in Western NY. Yes it can get cold but I think money wise it's your best bet. You also mentioned that your mare needed lots of turnout. I think, and I may be wrong but turnout in Ca is very limited and very pricey when you do find it. Good Luck and Congrats on both school and the upcoming marriage