Offended by trainer-do I just suck it up?

[kahjul]

This is not the first time I have been personally offended by my trainer. I have posted in the past with issues similar. The bottom line is that she just has NO people skills.
I told her I was giving my girl some time off and would call her in Feb or March to start back up. She said she was fine with that, but has called every month to let me know what her date is for coming here (she is 45 mins away and comes here monthly, while I usually also go to her once monthly).
I showed up at the clinic last weekend where she was passing out pictures she had taken in the past and made into gifts for her students. She says, Oh, I didn't make you one since I haven't seen you. Not, I didn't bring yours. 2 of the students she was teaching that day are students I brought in for her. I took anywhere from 3-5 lessons a month all year until November. My feelings are hurt, but not enough to talk to her about because as I said, she won't get it. Her lessons are quite expensive, I could get help without trailering for 1/2 the price (but lets face it, there's a reason I'm not). Just bummed I guess. is she really that stupid? I also used to organize her clinics, but quit when the amount of work became overwhelming, since she did not offer a price break for the service.

[narcisco]

You're going to have to clarify a little for me. What upsets you the most? Did she expect to see you at the clinic? If she wasn't expecting you to be there, I can see why she might not have a gift.

Honestly, I think it's always best to be up front with the person who upset you. Your feelings are real and should be honored. Ignoring them won't make them go away. It's ok to call her and say something like, "you know, I was a little (insert word that best describes your feelings) that I didn't get a Christmas present. Are you angry with me about anything?"

[Sebastian]

You may just be venting, and that's totally cool. Horse trainers can be social dorks...I've met many... :lol: :yes:

IF you LOVE her as a "Trainer", ignore it all and just keep training.

IF you hoped you were "friends," the answer is a resounding "no."

IF you WANT a trainer with better inter-personal skills... Shop around. They're out there.

You just have to decide what your goals are... Do you want to show and compete and "be all you can be?" Then, suck it up and train with the best, regardless of how big a diva they are... :winkgrin:

If you just want to have fun and enjoy your horse and progress at your own pace...shop around.

Sorry you hit the wall with this one. It sucks.
Seb :)

[CapitolDesign]

Only you can decide whether or not your trainer is still a good match for you.

If you can still trust and feel comfortable around her, then you might be able to continue learning in a positive and safe environment.

If not, please keep in mind that we can get physically and emotionally drained in this sport... the last thing we need is someone taking advantage of our vulnerability.

[Dressage Art]

It can be quite difficult to pay lots of money for lessons that you are not quite happy with - especially in this economy.

If your trainer puts her foot in her mouth often and doesn't notice that her clumsy remarks hurt - I would agree with you that she probably will not understand where you are coming from asking for more refined communications. More than that, some people who are not very bright, may get frustrated that they don’t understand your complaint and get even more unpleasant.

I would follow this saying in your situation: “bad peace is better than a good war”

Unfortunately, at times it's easier to leave than to improve an unpleasant situation.

[piaffequeen]

This is just my opinion-I would not stay with this trainer. I look for a trainer with good people skills and who is fun to work with. I am like you in the fact that I don't take lesson every week-can't afford it and my previous dressage trainer in NJ understood that and even offered if I helped her out on Sundays with tacking up client horses and horses that she had to ride-I got a free lesson. My new trainer-I was upfront with her and I ride every other week and she doesn't get an attitude and understands if I can't ride every other week-She knows I ride for fun-and only do fun shows.

If you can get the same quality of instruction and enjoy your lessons from someone else-I would leave her.

[specialops]

I am going to hazard a guess (from experience) that this type of behavior will continue. I know not all trainers, but many (at least many I have dealt with) know all to well how we are devoted to the pursuit of dressage excellence. I think many take advantage of that and push the envelope knowing we will put up with a lot for talented training because it is not always easy to come by. What I have determined (especially in this economy) is that we need to start being clear that we should be treated with respect and if not, we are probably with the wrong trainer. If we all don't stand together for basic respect in return for our hard earned dollars then we will continue to receive this type of treatment. (I also realize this is easier said than done).

[Raquel]

Maybe your trainer wasn't aware you would be at the clinic?
Do you think you maybe be over reacting just a little bit????:yes:

[Go Fish]

If this trainer is meeting your needs in every other way (sorry, haven't read your other posts), then I'd buck up and continue. I can put up with a lot if my horse and myself continue to improve, I get desired results, and I'm doing well at the shows. I guess I'm just not that sensitive and a lack of personal skills would not cause me to switch from an otherwise good trainer.

I'm often surprised that customers expect some sort of personal relationship with a trainer. It's a business relationship, after all. I don't think it's out of line for you to take a moment to chat with her about your need to have a more positive verbal relationship and see what she says. Stay positive and see if you can find the emotional balance you need.

[IrishDeclan]

I've learned over the years that ALOT of people are lacking in basic social skills.... or perhaps I'm the one that's lacking and everybody else is totally normal :lol:. Sometimes people don't even realize what they're doing or that they've hurt someone's feelings. The way you described the situation makes me think that perhaps your trainer is one of these people. Unfortunately, I've met several trainers who seem to live in the "here and now". They get so completely involved with the people they're working with at the moment that they kind of forget about everybody else. I agree with the others who said that you should talk to her. I hate confronting people because it makes me feel uncomfortable, but I always feel better afterwards. Regardless of whether or not you stay with her, she needs to be made aware of what she's doing. Good luck!!!!

[Bogie]

It depends on how much you value the training that this trainer provides.

Over the years I have left certain trainers because on balance, I found that their training style (or personal style) bothered me more than the benefit I got from their training skill.

However, I live in a geographic area where there are many good trainers and I can pick and choose to find one that meets my needs.

Only you can make that judgment. It does sound to me like "forgetting" to bring the photo is not the first time this person has offended you.

Is it worth a confrontation? Probably not. Most people who have severely lacking social skills are completely unaware of this and do not generally appreciate being told. Since this trainer is someone you will continue to see at your barn, I wouldn't turn it into a confrontation.

[Come Shine]

What would you talk to her about? "Ummm... you didn't give me a Christmas present."?

If you stopped having lessons (even though you intend to start again) and quite organizing the clinics, perhaps she didn't make you a gift because she thought you had left her.

[Whitfield Farm Hanoverians]

I know you can find a top trainer with great people skills that is fun to be around. I attended 2 Lisa Wilcox clinics in Atlanta last year & she was loads of fun. Very personable & kind.
I'v also ridden with some who were less than gracious. I just never rode with them again. I'm old enough now & am spending sooooo muuuuch $$$$ on horses, equipment, trailers, trucks, farm, rings, etc that you better believe I'm going to have to enjoy the learning process. If it's not fun I'm not going to do it, Period! There are other ways to learn. Have met many bitchy dressage queens in the past that I stay away from. I'll always smile & speak to them but I surely don't have to give them any of my money!
No I'm not wanting an instructor to pacify me & always tell me I'm right, NO WAY! I just always want to be treated with true respect. Plus I'm a well known practical joker so I can't be around people who are too serious. Really cramps my style!!!

[slc2]

Everyone will tell you to go find a nice trainer, there are plenty of fish in the sea. I won't.

It's far more important that she know her stuff and tell you straight what you need to do to school your horse, that she show up on time, and get the idea across and help you progress in your riding, than she be your 'pal' and give you photos and little gifts. Please do get the idea out of your head that if you take lessons from her, that once you have paid her for the lesson, she owes you something.

What you have done in the past - done freebies for someone you have a business relationship with, is just a plain old bad idea. Don't do it. Leave it as a business relationship. Your trainer is someone you do business with. If she chooses to give photos to some students, who gives a flying gerbil. So what.

It was a ridiculously small thing she did, and I don't blame her a bit for being annoyed at you for not working your horse for a few months. It's not good for the schooling of the horse. Plenty of trainers would not have time for you when you decided to start working again, you'd be hunting for someone else.

[Sabine]

This is just my opinion-I would not stay with this trainer. I look for a trainer with good people skills and who is fun to work with. I am like you in the fact that I don't take lesson every week-can't afford it and my previous dressage trainer in NJ understood that and even offered if I helped her out on Sundays with tacking up client horses and horses that she had to ride-I got a free lesson. My new trainer-I was upfront with her and I ride every other week and she doesn't get an attitude and understands if I can't ride every other week-She knows I ride for fun-and only do fun shows.

If you can get the same quality of instruction and enjoy your lessons from someone else-I would leave her.

I do tend to agree with this rationale. The main reason is that riding well is as such difficult enough. If you are an intelligent person that loves dressage, reads and is really interested in learning (also on your own) you will need a trainer that 'empowers' you...which really means- is realistic and matter of fact in the lesson but always with an 'upward ' closing- something encouraging at the end. THat is the key for all us amateurs to continue working hard, and trying hard to get better...it's really the key to get better- apart from your inner decision to let nothing stop you!
So a 'downer' trainer- be it that the trainer discredits you or your horse is always really a waste of money because the words ring in your ears for hours and days and put you DOWN.
That is not how you get better. You get better with a combination of factors:
1. best possible physical situation/feeding/support/shoeing/therapy for the horse
2. best environment to train in (peace and quiet/little gossip/no railbirds etc)
3. a trainer that is a pro in the true sense of the word: appropriate conduct/behavior/communication skills paired with exceptional riding and teaching skill.

Now I know that this is reaching far and it's hard to find the perfect compromise as it is truly and individual decision. But I have learned that someone putting me down with words is the worst thing that can happen to me...that doesn't mean I need a yes-man or woman- but someone who has a solid explanation to offer, a path of training to follow and a very kind and easy to be around attitude. Then I get cheerful and happy and I ride about 50% better than before...go figure...???

[Go Fish]

I do tend to agree with this rationale. The main reason is that riding well is as such difficult enough. If you are an intelligent person that loves dressage, reads and is really interested in learning (also on your own) you will need a trainer that 'empowers' you...which really means- is realistic and matter of fact in the lesson but always with an 'upward ' closing- something encouraging at the end. THat is the key for all us amateurs to continue working hard, and trying hard to get better...it's really the key to get better- apart from your inner decision to let nothing stop you!
So a 'downer' trainer- be it that the trainer discredits you or your horse is always really a waste of money because the words ring in your ears for hours and days and put you DOWN.
That is not how you get better. You get better with a combination of factors:
1. best possible physical situation/feeding/support/shoeing/therapy for the horse
2. best environment to train in (peace and quiet/little gossip/no railbirds etc)
3. a trainer that is a pro in the true sense of the word: appropriate conduct/behavior/communication skills paired with exceptional riding and teaching skill.

Now I know that this is reaching far and it's hard to find the perfect compromise as it is truly and individual decision. But I have learned that someone putting me down with words is the worst thing that can happen to me...that doesn't mean I need a yes-man or woman- but someone who has a solid explanation to offer, a path of training to follow and a very kind and easy to be around attitude. Then I get cheerful and happy and I ride about 50% better than before...go figure...???

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't get this from the OP's post at all. Where did she say that the trainer is putting her down? You make it sound like the trainer is not providing good training. The OP doesn't say that. If the training/lessons are accomplishing the OP's goals, so what if the personal aspect is missing? I don't see where it's the trainer's responsibility to be the OP's friend. Seriously, who wants to be a "friend" with a horse trainer, anyway? I have a business relationship with my trainer...nothing more, nothing less. It's not a social or personal relationship.

[Sabine]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't get this from the OP's post at all. Where did she say that the trainer is putting her down? You make it sound like the trainer is not providing good training. The OP doesn't say that. If the training/lessons are accomplishing the OP's goals, so what if the personal aspect is missing? I don't see where it's the trainer's responsibility to be the OP's friend. Seriously, who wants to be a "friend" with a horse trainer, anyway? I have a business relationship with my trainer...nothing more, nothing less. It's not a social or personal relationship.

Agreed- and I don't believe that I said I want to be the friend of the trainer. But- in order to be effective- a trainer has to have the trust of the rider and needs to get pretty upclose to correct and effect change if needed. I do recall previous topics of the OP reflecting and struggling with the 'human' side of her trainer.

My statements simply pointed out that the 'human' side of the trainer can affect a ton of the riders progress- maybe it's a matter of sensitivity or match-up of personalities- but there is really no point in your statement about not a social relationship- HELLOO!!! are you even using a trainer?

[Go Fish]

Agreed- and I don't believe that I said I want to be the friend of the trainer. But- in order to be effective- a trainer has to have the trust of the rider and needs to get pretty upclose to correct and effect change if needed. I do recall previous topics of the OP reflecting and struggling with the 'human' side of her trainer.

My statements simply pointed out that the 'human' side of the trainer can affect a ton of the riders progress- maybe it's a matter of sensitivity or match-up of personalities- but there is really no point in your statement about not a social relationship- HELLOO!!! are you even using a trainer?

Uhhh, yes, I have both of my horses in full training. I've ridden consistently with trainers for 50 years. The OP didn't say she didn't "trust" the trainer, now did she say the trainer was ineffective. I totally disagree, also, that a trainer needs to get "pretty up close to correct and effect change if needed." "Human side?" What does that mean? Are trainers supposed to be babysitters, shrinks, Mom, Dad? If so, most of them are unqualifed.

My trainer and I couldn't have more opposite personalities. That doesn't mean we can't effectively work with one another. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it appears the OP is looking for more of an emotional or personal relationship with the trainer, in addition to the actually training/lessons provided. Let me emphasize...I see horse training/lessons/boarding as a BUSINESS relationship - I pay you a fee...you train my horse(s) and me. If the training is good...I improve, my horses improve, I do well at the shows. Contract fullfilled. Bottom line, that's all there is to it. Emotional or personal relationships are left to my family, friends, and husband, not someone I pay to provide a service.

[PiaffeDreams]

For me personally, there are times I want the info bad enough I don't care, but if I'm going to work with someone long term, I want to feel like they want to work with me long term. I'm a big girl and I don't need another friend, but I like to get the trainer's undivided attention when I'm paying for it, a sense that they are looking forward to my lesson, that if on the rare occasion I call or email that they aren't thinking "oh.... HER." My riding is important to me. I spend a lot of time, emotion, heart and $$ on it. Its not too much to ask a trainer to give you the feeling they are on 'your team'.

That said, I try to keep it in mind that the average amateur I teach will forego a lot of other things to make her lessons and training work. She likely has a significant other who would rather she was home, kids who need her help, less time and energy than she'd like to have, etc... so she needs to know I'm a part of her support team. Its part of what I'm paid for and for me at least I love that part.

We give horsey gift baggies for x-mas. I had a student who came for the first time the week before I handed them out. She came again the following week and got one. I might not have seen her again, but oh well. Another works 3 days a week out of town and during the holidays I never see her as she always works holidays... part of what gives her the $$ to do what she wants with her horses. I didn't see her for a few weeks, but she got her baggie when she came back. Another had been on a hiatus for a few months dealing with an ill parent. She came back the week after I handed them out... and got hers.

Everyone will have a different opinion and for some social demeanor will mean nothing so long as they like what they learn. If that's out of touch for you, its not something wrong for you. Its your $$. If you aren't getting ALL you want for the buck, then go shopping.

[indyblue]

I often joke with my friends about the amount of bad service and general crap we put up with in the horse world.The things I tolerate from equestrian professionals I would never tolerate in the rest of my life.Horsie people are often ecentric and sometimes just plain nuts.You know, I think we have to be slightly odd to put up with the extreme highs and lows of owning a horse (and spending too much time on BB's)
Anyway where Im going with this is that if your trainer is what you want training wise I would stick with her.I must say though that usually in NZ when you organise a clinic you get some sort of compensation.And the end of the day you have to be happy so if you find yourself muttering to yourself at 3 in the morn for a few nights in a row then maybe cut her loose.Good luck.

[Go Fish]

I often joke with my friends about the amount of bad service and general crap we put up with in the horse world.The things I tolerate from equestrian professionals I would never tolerate in the rest of my life.Horsie people are often ecentric and sometimes just plain nuts.You know, I think we have to be slightly odd to put up with the extreme highs and lows of owning a horse (and spending too much time on BB's)
Anyway where Im going with this is that if your trainer is what you want training wise I would stick with her.I must say though that usually in NZ when you organise a clinic you get some sort of compensation.And the end of the day you have to be happy so if you find yourself muttering to yourself at 3 in the morn for a few nights in a row then maybe cut her loose.Good luck.

Great post, and so TRUE. But even if you have to tolerate a lot of crap, if your basic goals are being met, training/lesson-wise, then stick with it. Find somewhere else to get your emotional needs met.

I mutter to myself all the time at 3 in the morning...it has nothing to do with my horsey life! :winkgrin:

[selah]

I try to bear in mind that I am part of my "service provider's" livlihood. When I cancel lessons or decide to take a few months off...I affect his/her bottom line. This goes for trainer, farrier, even vet and feed store.

[merrygoround]

Maybe your trainer wasn't aware you would be at the clinic?
Do you think you maybe be over reacting just a little bit????:yes:

Not surprisingly a lot of people when they leave a trainer sound just as you did. " Oh, I'm taking some time off". And you never see them again.

If she's good, and you are progressing, close your eyes, set a date and have a lesson. If you are really that upset, go find someone else.

[rileyt]

Seriously. I agree 100% with SLC2. There is a real dearth of knowledgeable good trainers in this country. If you've found one, count your lucky stars and don't sweat the small stuff.

I think its one thing if you have a downright destructive and nasty person standing in the middle of the ring. I don't suffer fools, and I don't put up with personal attacks. If I'm paying someone $100/hr, they'd better be enough of a professional not to spit in my eye.

But the type of slight you're talking about is when the business/friendship line gets crossed. It may have hurt your feelings (I think I'd feel slighted too). But what do you want from this woman? Do you want a trainer? Or a friend? Sometimes you can have both, and sometimes you can't. I think your best solution (assuming you think this person is a good trainer) is to stop treating it like a "friend" relationship, and instead treat it like a business one. You pay her, and she provides a service. As long as you're happy with the service--keep paying.

[webmistress32]

you're paying her to train you and your horse, not to be your friend.

I work with a dressage trainer with zero people skills. she says offensive and nasty things all the time. but I know what she means and she does have good intentions so I blow it off.

I get good training from her. that's what I pay her for.

if I want someone to blow sunshine up my butt and not push me I'll have my non-horsey husband watch me ride and make nice comments - that's free. :D

[gardenie]

Merrygoround said: "Not surprisingly a lot of people when they leave a trainer sound just as you did. " Oh, I'm taking some time off". And you never see them again."

Take the trainer to lunch, iron out your disagreements, and begin the new day. If that's what you really want. Or look at yourself and figure out you might have been sending out "I'm leaving" vibes for a long time.

If you feel like you are "sucking it up," you are angry, and you will create an atmosphere of anger with your trainer. If you feel like you are the client, and she provides a service, you will feel empowered. You are the only one you can change.

Relationships with people are always harder than with horses.

[SisterToSoreFoot]

Do not aim to be friends with your trainer. That always gets messy. As other posters have said, keeping things businesslike and professional is the way to go--otherwise, she will have too much power over your feelings. Think about it--the trainer already has a ton of power (telling your how to ride, making tack recommendations, whatever) and a frienship always gets complicated when there's a mismatch of power.

I'd say, either leave her or stay, but do not plan on being buddies with any trainer. Otherwise, you'll end up hurt and offended somehow, and all the trainer/student "you didn't get me a present?!" stuff just distracts you from the purpose of the whole thing: training your horse. Stay focused on that and let the rest roll off of you.

[CapitolDesign]

I agree with Sabine.

The OP may not have said she doesn't trust her trainer anymore, but if she has to post here it clearly means she has some hard feelings towards her.

Taking a lesson with someone that you believe has hurt you, taken advantage of you, insulted you or disregarded your feelings in the past sets you up for a tricky relationship. As I mentioned earlier, it is hard enough to be vulnerable and open to criticism during a dressage lesson. If you have issues with your trainer (that you are conscious of or not), it can be hard to fully trust them when you get to the ever-popular "I don't know what I am doing, I should just quite this sport and take up knitting, what is wrong with me?!" moments.

[centeur]

I had an acquaintance that told me she had a instructor that said teaching he to ride was like trying to teach a weeble to ride! She was a bit round in form. When she told me I couldn't help but snicker because I got the visual and my funny bone kicked in. I apologized. As it turned out, she turned out to be a snarly neighborhood problem, alienating neighbor against neighbor. Fortunately, I saw this personality flaw a little ahead of everyone else and steered clear of her. But when I do see her, I know she thinks of that moment when she told that to me, probably sorry she did. Can you imagine?

[Bogie]

If it was me and one of my clients, I would have presented the OP with a photo of her regardless of whether or not she had scheduled a lesson with me recently, just a way to thank her for her business in the past and her help organizing clinics. I do small favors for past clients all the time and often they come back and do business with me again.

In my experience, many trainers are not great business people.

The issue here seems to be that the OP also resents the time she's spent organizing clinics for the trainer with no acknowledgment of her effort. It sounds to me like a communications issue that spiraled out of control. The "compensation" should have been discussed up front rather than assumed.

If she wants to continue riding with the trainer my recommendation would be to set up a time to talk to her training plans for 2009. It could be a phone call or in person but could go something along the lines of:

"I'm looking at what I want to accomplish this year. I'd like to aim toward x and am most likely going to be able to lesson about 2x/month for the next few months. How does that fit into your schedule? Also, I know in the past that I've been able to help you organize your clinics at the barn. I realize that it's taking up quite a bit of my time. Would you be willing to comp me for (a lesson or whatever)? If not, maybe I can help you line up someone else who can work with you."

Good luck!

[EqTrainer]

Everyone will tell you to go find a nice trainer, there are plenty of fish in the sea. I won't.

It's far more important that she know her stuff and tell you straight what you need to do to school your horse, that she show up on time, and get the idea across and help you progress in your riding, than she be your 'pal' and give you photos and little gifts. Please do get the idea out of your head that if you take lessons from her, that once you have paid her for the lesson, she owes you something.

What you have done in the past - done freebies for someone you have a business relationship with, is just a plain old bad idea. Don't do it. Leave it as a business relationship. Your trainer is someone you do business with. If she chooses to give photos to some students, who gives a flying gerbil. So what.

It was a ridiculously small thing she did, and I don't blame her a bit for being annoyed at you for not working your horse for a few months. It's not good for the schooling of the horse. Plenty of trainers would not have time for you when you decided to start working again, you'd be hunting for someone else.


I agree with everything in this post. Particularly this part: Please do get the idea out of your head that if you take lessons from her, that once you have paid her for the lesson, she owes you something.

Really... in what other business do people think they are going to have a personal relationship w/the person they are paying for a service? Do you expect your doctor to give you a picture of you getting your yearly physical? Having your strep throat looked at? Your plumber, a picture of you with the toilet overflowing? Your lawn guy - picture of you walking in the grass?

Yes, we do often become friends w/our trainers and clients. However, there are friendships that are situational. Yes, some of them do end up being long term, true friendships. But quite frankly, as a trainer, I can tell you that most of them are in the other direction - students will call you or email you about anything wrong w/their horse, with their riding, with their life - indefinately, even after you are no longer teaching them. Sometimes you have the time and interest to reply.. sometimes you don't. Sometimes you want to say - "why can't you ask your CURRENT trainer about this? Doesn't she *know*? The thoughtful ones pay you for your time and schedule consultations. The other ones get offended when you don't reply or call them back.

I took the time to type this all out so you would realize how very odd and skewed people's relationships w/their trainers - and sometimes, *all* their horses caregivers - can become.

One more thing - people often want a lesson "slot" and then need to change that time around. That's fine ocassionally... life is crazy and that happens. But if you ask me to give you a day/time/every week and you consistently change it.. or cancel it.. then when you want to get more serious I am less likely to make room for you in my schedule because I know you may not be reliable.

You do deserve *during your lesson* to have that persons full attention and for them to teach you what you need to learn in a positive, progressive way. You do deserve to have them cater to your learning style as much as they possibly can, given their skills in communicating and teaching. But other than that.. once that lesson is over, they don't owe you anything at all. If you were unhappy w/the situation when you were setting up clinics for her, then you should have told her that. If you don't tell people what your expectations are, then you will routinely be disappointed. Being *hurt* by it is a whole different story that has to do w/maturity and not with riding. The idea that all of our emotions are ok and should be humored is simply not so. If I feel hurt over something like that, I know I need to have a serious look at myself and figure out why I am acting so immaturely. It's MY problem, not that persons problem. My children, who are 9 and 5, are learning this lesson now. Yes, kids, your feelings are valid.. now let's look at them and what you do based on how you feel.

Should lessons be fun? Depends on your idea of fun. I do laugh a lot w/my students because I find most of life amusing. Things go wrong, unless someone gets hurt, there is usually something funny about it all. That doesn't mean they aren't working their butts off, they are. Now when I take a lesson.. I could care LESS about ANYTHING but learning what I went there for. I don't care if the person even says HI to me. Or GOODBYE. Just teach me something. Because to me, learning and having my horses progress is what is FUN. That's how I have a good time :) Not by having someone like me, or be nice to me. Professional, yes. Butt kissing, no. And PLEASE, no smoke blowing. I know I have a nice horse, I know what his limitations are, please don't try to tell me if I put him in full training w/you he will be doing GP in a year :lol: or he will magically become a different horse. When my horse was 4 I had a local "FEI" trainer try him (he was for sale) and she basically told me I should sell him to her for nothing because "he was so talented, he deserved to be with a FEI trainer". I was supposed to sacrifice myself for the greater good, I suppose :lol: Well, he is still here and I am still riding and training him and he has done very well.. and she is - where? I have no idea, but it's not at any international competitions :lol:

Really. Just go have a lesson, learn something and don't think about it all so much! And if you have "bad" feelings about it, don't assume it's the other person who is making you feel bad. It might be a great opportunity for some serious, necessary introspection.

If the sun would come out I could quit typing..

[chai]

In your post you mention that this is not the first time your trainer has hurt your feelings. The long and short of it is, why would you want to pay anyone your hard earned money who isn't nice to you?

I am always amazed at riders who will subject themselves to mean spirited trainers who belittle, insult and demean them when there are trainers out there who have both talent and social skills. Would you allow a co-worker, or anyone else in a service business to treat you like that?

It sounds like you make a huge effort to go to this trainer, and you have shown her kindness and offered her help in the past, which she did not appreciate. Even if she didn't have a gift for you, she could have had the grace to say, "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know you'd be here today so I didn't bring yours," instead of being so blunt, tactless and rude, making you feel like you didn't matter.

Talk to people you know who ride in your discipline and find a new trainer. After all, riding isn't about subjecting yourself to torture over and over again. Yes, there will be days when it's all hard work, and a good trainer will push you, but it's a very different thing to be treated with rudeness and a complete lack of social skills.

[grayarabpony]

I think you need to look at this objectively -- was the trainer expecting you that day? It doesn't sound like she was. And if she wasn't, I'd forget about it.

Sometimes, unfortunately, Christmas feels like the season for exclusion. Honestly I feel like it should be for kids only!!

It sounds as though this is not the first time she's gotten under your skin though. How good of an instructor is she? How much have you and your horse improved? If it's not enough that whatever social shortcomings she has still bother you, well, it may be time to look for a new instructor.

[Ja Da Dee]

I think some people are a little thin skinned.

[kahjul]

Very insightful. I'm much thicker skinned this morning, I was really hurt yesterday. She didn't know I would be there, but it wasn't that she hadn't brought a picture, it was that she didn't even take any pictures of me. I know, Boo Hoo!! This morning I honestly think she is angry with me for giving my horse time off and for no longer organizing her clinics and this was her petty little way of letting me know. Thats fine. She's made it very clear that I am not her favorite person. I will no longer go out of my way to suit her schedule, etc. I will just take my lessons and move on. I have felt trapped by her many times and have made committments that werent in my best interest because they helped her. No more. But, her lessons themselves are great for my horse, so I'll continue with just that.

[Rienzi]

Good job, kahjul.

[Cooper]

You have a PM

[Ambrey]

You know what? I just seriously doubt she's angry with you.

I am betting she's stressed out about losing clients and the current economy, worried about her business and her livelihood, and isn't even thinking about you. I bet you're not even the only one whose horses are "taking breaks" right now while people try to conserve money.

And that, in itself, hurts if you want her to be thinking about you. But, it's not really anything she's doing wrong, it's just life. Like when one friend invites another to lunch and they don't think to invite you- there might be 100 reasons why it's not a reflection on the relationship, but it still hurts.

I'm glad you're better this morning :)

[Trevelyan96]

I will play devils advocate here.... is it possible that what your trainer really meant was "I don't have a picture for you because I haven't seen you since I decided to take the pics and give them out as Christmas presents"?

It seems to me that there are way too many people out there who would rather assume the most negative tranlation of anything said to them and 'be offended'.

Life is too short to nit-pick every word said or unsaid. You'll be a lot happier with your trainer if you just decide to be more easy-going and accecpt that she's not always going to phrase things the way you might.

[egontoast]

I'm curious. Did you give HER a gift?

I always give my trainer and my farrier a small gift. The trainer always gives me a gift and the farrier never does. It doesn't matter. I don't expect either of them to give me a gift. I give it as a thank you.

[stryder]

You know what? I just seriously doubt she's angry with you.

I am betting she's stressed out about losing clients and the current economy, worried about her business and her livelihood, and isn't even thinking about you. I bet you're not even the only one whose horses are "taking breaks" right now while people try to conserve money.

Then the trainer should focus on the customers she has. It's more profitable to keep one, than to get one. My little company is always focused on our customers, but you can bet we're taking VERY good care of them right now. That said, I remind my staff frequently that we are to be attentive and professional. However, these people are not our friends.

I am friendly with my trainer, and very friendly with his wife. But clearly, we have a business relationship. We both work on having a good one.

good luck.

[goeslikestink]

This is not the first time I have been personally offended by my trainer. I have posted in the past with issues similar. The bottom line is that she just has NO people skills.
I told her I was giving my girl some time off and would call her in Feb or March to start back up. She said she was fine with that, but has called every month to let me know what her date is for coming here (she is 45 mins away and comes here monthly, while I usually also go to her once monthly).
I showed up at the clinic last weekend where she was passing out pictures she had taken in the past and made into gifts for her students. She says, Oh, I didn't make you one since I haven't seen you. Not, I didn't bring yours. 2 of the students she was teaching that day are students I brought in for her. I took anywhere from 3-5 lessons a month all year until November. My feelings are hurt, but not enough to talk to her about because as I said, she won't get it. Her lessons are quite expensive, I could get help without trailering for 1/2 the price (but lets face it, there's a reason I'm not). Just bummed I guess. is she really that stupid? I also used to organize her clinics, but quit when the amount of work became overwhelming, since she did not offer a price break for the service.

time to move on to another trianer before this one gets out of hand
in other words forget the past and move forwards
look at it another way-- she chased you for dates she buying gifts for lessons
that to me s aperson desperate for money if she any good she wouldnt have that problem and wouldnt have to arse lick or grovel
move on smile at her and leave her where she is---- go find another better trianer but dont get to freindly just do your lesson then go- end of thats what you pay for ok

[Alagirl]

hmmm, can it be she really has the picture at home but was really not expecting to see you?

let's face it:

Issue #1 she took you for granted when you did things for her pro bono. lesson learned, make expectation clear before you dive in. While it is true that Karma goes a long way, in reality you get taken advantage off if you don't set your value.

issue #2 she keeps calling you every month even though you are taking a break. And why exactly are you upset about that? You are on her phone list, so she is expecting you to return.


frankly, when I read the title I thought the trainer had made remarks about you, horse or whatever in an off color way. But frankly - aside to not get something while every else does, I have been there, packing everything but the kitchen sink,when that was all I really needed. Forgetting people in the head count for presents and such, that happens when you got lot's of things to take care of.

[Nojacketrequired]

I look at it this way.

You pay her.
She gives you a lesson.
You're even.
Period.

If you do things for her, don't expect anything back unless you have made those arrangements ahead of time.

More client/trainer relationships have been ruined by people thinking they were "friends" than anything else, I'm sure.

NJR

[narcisco]

From a trainer's perspective, I want to add something. Given that I live and breathe horses, if I didn't have clients as friends, I would never have any friends! I've had some of them for 20 years, as either clients, friends or both.

Although there may seem to a be a power difference that might interfere, in fact, there's not. The trainer may have the power over the horses, but the client has the power over the checkbook. It evens things out.

I'm just bringing this up because I don't want everyone fleeing from a friendship with their trainers. It can work, but things have to be really professional on the professional end. Everything should be up front.

For instance, I set up clinics, no reimbursement expected unless it's arranged in advance, so I can have the pleasure of working with that clinician.

This morning I honestly think she is angry with me for giving my horse time off and for no longer organizing her clinics and this was her petty little way of letting me know. It's possible you may be projecting your own anger on her. You really don't have any way of knowing how she feels, nor should you try to guess, until you talk to her.

[indyblue]

In my experience, many trainers are not great business people.



So true.I often find that the ones who are good, own or have owned a buisness outside of the equestrian world.
Ive just had extremely good service from a stud owner who's stallion I am using.I have been pleasantly surprised how professional, punctual, nice and helpful she has been.I think its so odd that I set out to give this person thousands of dollars and really did expect the usual shoddy service and was prepared to put up with it.

[Elegante E]

I'm curious. Did you give HER a gift?

I always give my trainer and my farrier a small gift. The trainer always gives me a gift and the farrier never does. It doesn't matter. I don't expect either of them to give me a gift. I give it as a thank you.

I think handling clinics for her is a BIG gift, Egon. Or did you miss that?

Kahjul - You may not be able to compeletly work on your own schedule and not hers, but you are on the right track when it comes to just handling it like a business relationship. If you don't feel like you are going out of your way for her, then you won't resent the stupid things she may say or do. Dealing with trainers is just an odd and sometimes hard relationship. It feels very personal but it's still a business relationship. Think of it like getting your hair done or a massage. You go, you do it, you leave. You can be friendly without having a friendship.

[NEEDS A NAP]

Trevelyan and Alagirl offered great advice.

I glean from some of the other replies that you have had reason to be unhappy with her in the past, but after reading THIS POST ONLY, I wonder exactly what generated such bad feelings.

Keeping you on her call list for when she will be in your area: I look at that as a courtesy, not an offense. Would you have been offended if you found out she was going to be in your area and had NOT let you know?

As far as the no picture thing: maybe she was too blunt and too public. Maybe she should not have said anything at all in front of the other people, but should have handled it privately with you later. However, maybe your showing up took her by surprise since she was clearly not expecting you, and she just blurted it out.

I see among a lot of riders a bit of a "competition" aspect of friendship with the trainer in that everyone wants to be her best friend. Sometimes it gets a little out of hand. On both sides.

As far as not getting some kind of compensation for helping organize clinics, if you didn't mention up front that you expected something, then you are out of luck.

Most trainers I know operate on a very slim profit margin and won't volunteer to pay people they thought were "volunteers"!

[TSWJB]

In my experience, many trainers are not great business people.



So true.I often find that the ones who are good, own or have owned a buisness outside of the equestrian world.
.

I think this statement is soooo true. i ride with a dressage trainer that is the most professional, pleasant and truly committed to teaching kind of teacher i have ever had. he worked in the financial industry until march of last year. he knows how to run a business and handle clients.

[fry]

OMG! You know what's worse than dealing with trainers? Dealing with students. You have got to be kidding me that this is even an issue. Sorry if this sounds rude.

[Carnelian]

I was in an uncomfortable trainer situation in 2007. I was riding a horse owned by one trainer and taking lessons on it exclusively by another trainer. The trainer/owner decided that I needed to work with her. I said "sure" and scheduled my first lesson riding her horse. She was 30 minutes late to the lesson. I scheduled my second lesson (once again riding her horse). She didn't show up at all. I told her how upset I was (especially since it was FOUR days from the regional championships). She then told my regular trainer that she didn't think we would be a good fit since "that's just part of her personality." I'm sorry but not showing up for lessons isn't classified as part of someone's personality it's classified as RUDE! I guess sh**ty customer service is just part of her personality.

I rode the horse at the championships and never rode it again severing ties with this woman. I don't expect a best friend, but I DO expect a high level of customer service.

On the best friend note, I consider my primary trainer my best friend. I also like sitting down at one of my "every once in a while" trainers and having a drink before loading up my horse to head home.

BTW...problem trainer treated all of her clients that way. I was just the first to tell her to her face that it's not right. She's a small fish in a small pond so it's not like I was missing out on world-class instruction by severing ties.

You have to weigh the quality of the instruction against the level of BS you are willing to take!

[kahjul]

I do understand both sides here. Let me say, I have been a trainer, (different kinds of horses many years ago) I am also human. I make misjudgments, etc as all humans do at times. I typed a simple question onto a board where I have often gotten great advice. It was horse related and bothering me. That is part of the service of the board. Many have misread (I was was absolutely not upset she continued to call me with her schedule, and she didn't forget a picture for me-she didn't make one). Compensation was never discussed when I was doing her clinics, after she got kicked out of the barn they were being held at, she began giving a free lesson to the new organizer. I told her I thought that was crappy, she didn't agree-see's no problem.
She has invited me to dinner, been to my home, and offered to watch my son so I could go to a show with her. These things have been discussed here in the past. She has been very inappropriate and out of line repeatedly in the last year. I have been told by many students that have left her "She's great as long as you can stand her". I had friends takling bets on how long I would last. Her training is fabulous and my horse loves her so I continue to put up with her rude and bizarre behavior.
Honestly in posting I was not looking for a 'leave her' opinion. I was really just venting and figured I'd get some 'suck it up' opinions and I'd feel better.
I'm really surprised by a few of the rude comments. Sometimes on a baord when you don't have the whole picture maybe you should err on the side of politeness or just not respond.

[slc2]

ALL trainers are 'great if you can stand them'.

[Sakura]

ALL trainers are 'great if you can stand them'.

And everybody's level of tolerance is different :).

[Trevelyan96]

She has invited me to dinner, been to my home, and offered to watch my son so I could go to a show with her. These things have been discussed here in the past. She has been very inappropriate and out of line repeatedly in the last year.

It sounds like both of you have crossed the professional line here, not just the trainer.

IMHO, if you want to keep your trainer, then yes, you need to 'suck it up'. Perhaps your trainer could use some lessons in diplomacy and thoughfulness, but perhaps you are taking things personally that are not meant to be so. You won't be able to change her, you will only be able to change how you look at your relationship with her and your reactions to her personality. One of the easiest ways to not feel offended is to make a conscious decision not to look for a reason to be offended. It sounds strange, I know, but it works exactly the same as the concept of happiness coming from a decision to 'BE happy.'

[goeslikestink]

And everybody's level of tolerance is different :).

its personality you have three when trianing one to one more when your not
theres you and you horse plus trianer

[slc2]

Getting unhappy with the trainer because you helped with clinics and did not get free rides...that was your mistake. You expected that without ANYTHING being said up front. That is really unfair and it is overstepping the student/trainer relationship. If you had a professor, and you helped her put up Christmas decorations, would you get all angry at her because she didn't give you an A+? Now you're all angry with the trainer over that and that's WRONG. It's just WRONG. Freebies are freebies. They do not mean you get special consideration. If you want an arrangement, make it up front, BEFORE you do the work. Assumptions ALWAYS make people angry and they ALWAYS cause interpersonal problems and resentment. ALWAYS.

If all the things you're angry with the trainer are like this, if incidents like the clinic are why resentment has built up over the months, you are making a big, big mistake.

[Pely]

[QUOTE=kahjul;3802164] She has been very inappropriate and out of line repeatedly in the last year. I have been told by many students that have left her "She's great as long as you can stand her". I had friends takling bets on how long I would last. Her training is fabulous and my horse loves her so I continue to put up with her rude and bizarre behavior.
QUOTE]

That statement is just flipping rude. As long as you can "stand her". WTF ??? Is the trainer hosting a dinner party? Do you expect them to be miss manners 24/7? Do you expect the trainer to never ever be tired, irritable, frustrated ? We are only human. Do you make sure that you are always perfect?

I would like to know what constitutes inappropriate and out of line.

I really do not understand why clients/students expect to be treated like queens, and like the center of attention 24/7. All trainers have other clients and try very hard to treat everyone fairly. Clients are often very disrespectful of the trainers time and expect 2 hours of attention to go with a 45 minute lesson.

Students who take breaks, for months, are part timers, and cannot be expected to get the same level of attention that a full time, regular student does.

Trainers have bills to pay, and we are the first thing to be cut from the budget, that can become very stressful. Often lessons are canceled for very feeble reasons, and at the last second so that the trainer is left with empty time on the schedule. Most often not enough time to do anything other than stand around and wait for the next lesson to start.

Really, some of you expect the trainer to be perfect in all aspects, yet do not come close to extending the same courtesies to the trainer. You expect the trainer to be at your beck and call, yet cancel when you get a hangnail, or get offended at the least little slip of the tongue. Training/coaching/teaching is very stressful. We are all being pulled in many directions and most of us are doing our best.

[Pely]

And another news flash.

Students/clients offend their trainers quite often.

Trainers do not sit around in groups and talk about "how can you stand that person". I bet you won't keep them around long.

Nope, we just suck it up because we have bills to pay.

[grayarabpony]

Is this the trainer, perchance?

Whoever it is has a VERY skewed view of the world.

[EqTrainer]

Getting unhappy with the trainer because you helped with clinics and did not get free rides...that was your mistake. You expected that without ANYTHING being said up front. That is really unfair and it is overstepping the student/trainer relationship. If you had a professor, and you helped her put up Christmas decorations, would you get all angry at her because she didn't give you an A+? Now you're all angry with the trainer over that and that's WRONG. It's just WRONG. Freebies are freebies. They do not mean you get special consideration. If you want an arrangement, make it up front, BEFORE you do the work. Assumptions ALWAYS make people angry and they ALWAYS cause interpersonal problems and resentment. ALWAYS.

If all the things you're angry with the trainer are like this, if incidents like the clinic are why resentment has built up over the months, you are making a big, big mistake.

Not only true in this context, but in a life context...

don't give what you cannot give with an open heart. Never give with the expectation of getting. The "return" on your generosity is not always tangible at that time or even connected to the event itself. It's the act of giving itself that is rewarding... or at least, if you want to be happy in your giving, what you should be working towards.

Ever notice how generous people are usually pretty happy? It's not what they get back that makes them that way!

[Pely]

quote: grayarabpony
Is this the trainer, perchance?

Whoever it is has a VERY skewed view of the world. End quote

No, not me.

But while I am currently blessed with the most wonderful clients in the world, I have gone through all of what I have posted about. And have been hurt very badly on both a personal and professional basis, by students that clamed to be my "friends", and expected all the perks that go along with "friendship". Seems I was only the friend when they expected freebees and other services. Yet they would be the first to cancel, gossip, talk behind my back, and my personal favorite "put me in my place".

I am so grateful to have the clients that I currently have.

Skewed????? hardly, that is reality.

If only we could all put on each others shoes.

Wise words, EqTrainer

[FancyFree]

And another news flash.

Students/clients offend their trainers quite often.

Trainers do not sit around in groups and talk about "how can you stand that person". I bet you won't keep them around long.

Nope, we just suck it up because we have bills to pay.

You can bet that some trainers talk about their students. The reason that they may "suck it up", is exactly as you wrote, they have bills to pay.

The student, on the other hand, is the customer. If they don't like it, they don't have to suck it up, they can find somewhere else to go to. Especially in this economy. A top barn in my area is advertising that they have openings, which is a first in my memory. If a business isn't going to treat you well, go to another one. If that's the only business in town, you choose to deal or leave. I couldn't deal with a professional, who I am paying, being rude or unreliable. I left a trainer who was very good, but chronically late. It's all about what you can tolerate. I understand you're just venting OP.

You have to weigh the quality of the instruction against the level of BS you are willing to take!

Exactly.

[grayarabpony]

No, the reality is not that clients expect to get treated like queens, blah blah. On the contrary, many instructors are not qualified and/ or are rude to their clients. That's why it's so hard to find a good one.

I'm glad you have good clients now. I hope you've learned that part of professionalism is not allowing people to run all over you.

slc2, that was a typical load of BS. If a person doesn't acknowledge generosity in any way, that person is usually either totally occupied (forgiveable) or self-absorbed.

[indyblue]

Getting unhappy with the trainer because you helped with clinics and did not get free rides...that was your mistake. You expected that without ANYTHING being said up front. That is really unfair and it is overstepping the student/trainer relationship. If you had a professor, and you helped her put up Christmas decorations, would you get all angry at her because she didn't give you an A+? Now you're all angry with the trainer over that and that's WRONG. It's just WRONG. Freebies are freebies. They do not mean you get special consideration. If you want an arrangement, make it up front, BEFORE you do the work. Assumptions ALWAYS make people angry and they ALWAYS cause interpersonal problems and resentment. ALWAYS.

If all the things you're angry with the trainer are like this, if incidents like the clinic are why resentment has built up over the months, you are making a big, big mistake.

The professor bits a bit wierd but I do agree that things should of been discussed at the beginning.But.................dont you think the trainer should of offered?Isnt the person who is having the favour done for them surposed to be the one who offers the favour in return?

[daisyfields]

quote: grayarabpony
Is this the trainer, perchance?

Whoever it is has a VERY skewed view of the world. End quote

No, not me.

But while I am currently blessed with the most wonderful clients in the world, I have gone through all of what I have posted about. And have been hurt very badly on both a personal and professional basis, by students that clamed to be my "friends", and expected all the perks that go along with "friendship". Seems I was only the friend when they expected freebees and other services. Yet they would be the first to cancel, gossip, talk behind my back, and my personal favorite "put me in my place".

I am so grateful to have the clients that I currently have.

Skewed????? hardly, that is reality.

If only we could all put on each others shoes.

Wise words, EqTrainer

I believe it's reality both ways, not just the poor trainer who always has to put up with those terrible students. Numerous times have I been called on my way to my lesson only to be told we're running late, or had my horse ready and got the call. Sometimes traffic and such happens, but not that much. Sometimes it took me a few minutes more than expected to groom and tack up. I'm certainly glad I don't ride where you are; it sounds terrible. The only people who have ever screwed my trained over were a couple other trainers she considered friends. It's NOT just students and clients:eek:

[slc2]

"dont you think the trainer should of offered?Isnt the person who is having the favour done for them surposed to be the one who offers the favour in return?"


No. Absolutely, positively, never, ever.

This is exactly where you get into trouble. Exactly. This sort of thinking is what leads to a million angry feelings, at work, at school, at home, AND at the barn. BOTH sides wind up resentful, angry, feeling shortchanged.

NEVER assume you DESERVE a back-favor. No matter WHAT you have done that you think justifies it.

This is called 'stealth favors'. It's basically blackmail.

I feel there can be fault on both sides. Some trainers kiss up to students and assume they will get a lot of favors, even wheedling them out of students. But at times students do that too!

I have also seen students do the WORST things to trainers. Go ballistic when they don't get attention, get extremely crazy with them, etc, just like Pely described.

And SO many people expect a 'special deal' and get really, really angry if they don't get it!

I feel it really is very, very cowardly to do something, and then expect something in return, instead of having the courage to ask up front and risk hear the person say 'No, thank you'.

I think that's why people do it - because they don't want to take the risk of being told 'no'. If they do a favor, then they can kind of blackmail the person and say, 'but see, I did something for you!' Not everyone will stand for it, though! It's a rotten tactic.

And I say this even though I have been yanked around like a trained monkey by a manipulative, dishonest trainer who took advantage of a LOT of people and ripped off a LOT of people.

AND although I have ALSO had a trainer who came over just to check on a lame horse to see if he was better, charged nothing over and over, and encouraged, helped, advised and did everything she possibly could do for me, plus a little bit more.

But I would have NEVER expected her to, or been resentful if she hadn't.

Take my advice, it's the best advice anyone ever gave me:


Ask up front what it costs
Pay cash
Don't do favors
Don't accept favors
Don't expect favors.

[indyblue]

Im sure you've organised hundreds of clinics SLC2 so will know the amount of time it takes to put the whole thing together.Its not unreasonable to expect something done in return and I would consider this the norm.Yes the OP should of worked this out at the beginning but I strongly feel that the trainer also should of offered something in return.The trainers time is money and Im sure the Op saved her alot of time.

[slc2]

I just don't agree. I respect your opinion and your right to speak, but I don't agree with you. And I think not making expectations clear up front and not communicating has made it so this lady now highly resents the trainer.

Today, clinics charge riders between 100 and 400 dollars per session or per day, not including stabling, trailer parking, etc. Four hundred is really the top end.

Allowing only 25 dollars a day for stabling, that's 375-1275 dollars.

That is equal to a WHOLE LOT of 'helping out' (40-120 hrs), and it is a whole lot of cash to do without. I think given the choice, most people would NOT want help if they were asked up front, they'd say, 'I'll just do it myself'.

Some clinics aren't really clinics at all. They're just a local riding instructor giving a series of riding lessons on one or two days. The instructor really doesn't NEED any help with those. And the more elaborate clinics are usually set up by the barn owner, the education person at the local dressage club, or the barn manager. These days, it's actually getting difficult for ANYONE to get a freebie when you bring someone big time in, even the barn owner if it's his own place! It's just expensive.

[indyblue]

It would be unreasonable to expect the whole clinic for free.What about a discount?
Its the norm in NZ.The majority of clinics Ive been on have not been organised by the clinician.It is very time consuming and frustrating.Getting the money in is a 'special experience' in itself let alone organising times that suit everyone.Then there are the last minute cancelations..................Its a crap job.

[slc2]

Of course it's a crap job. Lots of interruptions and annoying calls isn' the same as putting in 40-120 straight hours of work, especially when someone could just fit it in here and there and NOT pay you 375+dollars. I would seriously ask - kajul, did you put in 40 hrs? 120 hrs? Probably not. Could someone else do it? Probably.

[EqTrainer]

Really.. if the OP expected to be reimbursed in some way for her work organizing the clinics, she should have discussed it with the trainer in advance. No one is saying it's not work, it is. But if you don't want to give it away, then you need to be clear that you expect to be reimbursed or compensated somehow.

[sm]

to the OP:

Now that you know the trainer can't read your mind (maybe your horse's, but not yours) you need to step up to the plate and verbalize your expectations. It is a business arrangement after all, the trainer did not sign on to be a best friend.

If the horse is doing well and you see progress, stick with the trainer. If you have verbal agreements/contracts that are not being met, then leave the trainer.

Best of luck!

[TSWJB]

IToday, clinics charge riders between 100 and 400 dollars per session or per day, not including stabling, trailer parking, etc. Four hundred is really the top end.
These days, it's actually getting difficult for ANYONE to get a freebie when you bring someone big time in, even the barn owner if it's his own place! It's just expensive.

why exactly is it so expensive? i understand why boarding is so expensive because it cost so much for land and hay and feed. but why do we pay so much for a riding lesson??

[slc2]

"why do we pay this much for a riding lesson"

Because we do. People want to work with someone different. And they are willing to pay a premium to do that.

I would NEVER suggest that all clinics really are good, are taught by qualified people, or are beneficial to every individual every time. There are all kinds of problems with the 'clinics instead of lessons' approach and many people simply turn the clinic into an 'exhibition', a 'horse show' or a social hour.

That you may not be interested, doesn't make much of a dent in all the people who ARE willing to!

I'm not including in the definition 'clinic', when a local instructor decides to give a series of lessons at a barn she already teaches at! Those are riding lessons, not a clinic. 'Clinic' suggests paying at least some transportation and lodging to bring an outside person in.

The farm owner usually wants to see some profit for her trouble, and the clinicians' hotel, food, air fare need to be paid for. Then there is the clinician's fee.

The owner may also price up the other sessions so that her sessions are paid for. That can add A LOT!

While there are many different ways they price their services, some of them charge a flat rate for each day, and specify the length and number of lessons they will teach. One clinician we had years ago, one of the top dressage trainers in the USA at that time, put that limit at seven, and her fee was 700 a day plus hotel and air fare. At 100 a night for hotel and about 50 for meals, and a third of her airfare (say 100), that makes 950 a day in seven lessons. That's 135 a ride, and that's with no kickback to the farm to pay for the extra hours of their employees, etc.

Those prices are quite old, and are just an example. Air fares and everything else have gone up. Too, there are many more costs today now that dressage has become more popular - there may be someone selling commercial dvd's of the clinic, and it may be taught by one of the top dressage trainers of Germany or Holland. There may be fees (and many costs offsetting those fees, such as additional employees or additional hours, additional insurance, renting toilets, barriers, seating, providing food, etc), for auditors, haul ins, non customers of the farm, etc.

This doesn't include any sort of profit, even 'comfort money' for the owner or clinic organizer. While it doesn't require 40-120 hrs of continuous work, it's many interruptions from your main work for weeks or months before, during and after. Many barn owners are willing to host clinics if it helps to keep the boarding barn full. It also just looks good if their resident trainer is seen by the entire dressage community, working successfully with a big name. It brings them more customers.

Too very few big names still offer 'semi private' or 'group' sessions. Those used to make clinics very affordable. I paid a third or less of the usual cost back in the day and took a lesson with 3 or more people. Most of the best trainers, especially those from Europe, had plenty of experience running group lessons and were very good at it.

Why so few group lessons? I think mostly because it's so hard for the usual small farm to put together groups that make sense, of riders that are at about the same point.

Group lessons are also associated with beginners. They lack glamour. People want more attention. Even then, we heard many complaints after clinics with group lessons, such as, 'I didn't get enough 'me time''.

Some of the best in the world run three or four times that per lesson, and it's a lot more expensive to bring them over here.

There has been an extremely strong pattern of 'clinicification' of dressage in the last few years, where sometimes it seems everyone wants to have their moment with the famous trainer even if it means doing without regular lessons; there's been far more people coming over from the European dressage countries in the past few years too.

[RoeVee]

I think we all see this happen alot - student wants a 'friend' instead of a 'trainer'. The trainer is a professional - a student pays him/her for their knowledge in a chosen field. If you are best buddies with your trainer, FABULOUS, but it should not be expected. It should be a professional relationship first and foremost. Gifts, free lessons, price breaks etc should not be expected - the professional has to make a living. If the rider volunteers to organize clinics - great, the rider is VOLUNTEERING and should not be expected to be paid for it. :yes:

[grayarabpony]

:rolleyes: Seriously, who really wants to be friends with their trainer? As though all of these clients are poor friendless drones. I don't get it.

I want a trainer to help me ride my horse better. I also know better than to do anyone but my friends any favors. ;)

[RoeVee]

:lol: that is not exactly what I meant - but I am sure you know the type. "my trainer is my very BFF - I can't believe she still charges me when I volunteer to do ___".

It's not a fair relationship - the trainer needs the money. But that being said, how many of us have had the trainer that talks about their problems during your lesson that you are paying them for!! :(

we are such a dysfunctional lot. :lol:

[easyklc]

If you liked the training you've received then get over it and move on. Or, just sit down and have an adult conversation about your disappointment. She's very likley to be disppointed that you're not riding with her right now. You'll never know and continue to torture yourself with assumptions if you don't clarify.

As for feeling dejected after doing favors, well you kind of did that to yourself. I do understand it is hard to not get something in return after helping someone out, but that isn't why we help people is it? If it is then stop helping. If a friend or acquaintence asks me a favor I will say yes if I can, and a firm no if I can't. I don't mull over in my head that I have to get something in return for it to be a fulfilling experience.

I switched trainers last year for a variety or reasons, but one of them was that I wanted my trainer at the time to be more professional. Frankly I didn't want to muddy my training with chit chat. I moved on politely and now we are friends who get together and trail ride, share rides to shows, etc. I do not expect my current trainer to be my friend. Sure we have conversations outside of working together, but she takes my paid time seriously as do I.

[grayarabpony]

:lol: that is not exactly what I meant - but I am sure you know the type. "my trainer is my very BFF - I can't believe she still charges me when I volunteer to do ___".

It's not a fair relationship - the trainer needs the money. But that being said, how many of us have had the trainer that talks about their problems during your lesson that you are paying them for!! :(

we are such a dysfunctional lot. :lol:

This is true. :)

I think a trainer and a student can be a friend if there is an ironclad understanding that the trainer will be paid unless there is more than 24 hours notice. That's the way it was with the dressage instructor I had in college. And we had the same time, every week, unless it rained or someone was sick or lame.

Money -- the truth is we all need it!

[kahjul]

My trainer is continuously late-sometimes over an hour for lessons when I haul to her, she is usually within 15 mins or so when she travels to us. She never calls. That is because of all the talking. She pushes amway (previous topic) to all her students and talks about it during lessons. Heaven forbid you say anything about money being tight, because she could fix that for you if you would sign up for amway.
Anyways, I gave her a firm no to that and a few other things last year and we moved on. She really gets my horse or I would have run after my 3rd lesson. She doesn't get me however, but I'm dealing with it. It has been interesting to see all the different responses. Part of the problem with a BB is if you gave every single detail, sometimes it would be a book so people are only able to respond to what was actually written. She asked me to handle her clinics for her. I do this for a few others and told her up front that I usually get 1 free ride. She said she thought that was unreasonable and couldn't believe anyone else had agreed to it. I told her to look into it and let me know. She finally agreed, but after the first clinic she says she never agreed to it and demanded payment. After 3 clinics, I quit. There has been alot of this stuff. I really do think the picture thing was on purpose and petty on her part. I am still going to take lessons from her because she is so good with my horse and I don't have alot of options here. She is the type of person who could read this, know my user name and not realize it was me or about her. Really. I just need to cut everything else off and keep it strictly business. Thanks to everyone for that advice.

[SisterToSoreFoot]

Amway? I stayed at the Amway Grand Plaze Hotel in lovely Michigan last week. It was lush living and showed me the kind of high living I could do if I could move a semi-load of soap flakes every month.

[Jenn2674]

I think people are right when they say that business is business and we shouldn't expect anything more. Sometimes you might hit it off with a client and become great friends but noone should expect that. I also think some of it could be just plain old not thinking. If you really, really think she maliciously left you out then I guess that is one thing and I wouldn't want to give my business to that type of person. But if you think that maybe, just maybe she just forgot about you or didn't think you would be there then that is a totally different story. I can't imagine she could take pictures and give them as presents for every client she has had in recent years so she probably only did it for current, active clients. I think there are people out there that think too quickly that people do things intentionally when in reality while there certainly are people that are that nasty, most of the time things are just accidents or just thoughtlessness.

I have never heard of a clinician giving free rides to the organizer. I've been involved with clinics ranging from local trainers to some very big name trainers and what most often happens is the host or the organizer ads $5-10 to every ride so that they can get their own ride discounted or paid for. Sometimes, like in the case of the local GMO I once worked with, they just forked up the money like everyone else and agreed to do the organizing simply because they wanted to get a certain trainer to come to the area bad enough.

[Coreene]

Um, screwing you after the first clinic was not signal enough? Why go back for seconds and thirds?