Smart gain is making him mean, suggestions

[zahena]

My TB is super skinny. We've had his teeth done, he's been power packed, he's had his food increased. I recently added Smart Gain to his diet. Now, he IS finally gaining weight but ever since I put him on the Smart Gain he's gotten MEAN! He doesnt' like anyone around his food and he pins his ears and shows his teeth.

Since I'm his owner and know he won't chew my head off, I force him to tolerate my loving while he eats just so he knows pinned ears DOESN'T mean I'll go away.

It says it increases their appetitie which my boy doesn't need. Thoughts on this making him mean and another option to move him onto? He has picked up SOME weight but he's still pretty thin so complete supplement removal is not an option.

[myalter1]

can you feed him beet pulp and maybe something like body builder?

[dalpal]

How long have you had him, how old is he, and has he always been skinny?
What is his ENTIRE diet? Not just the one supplement.....Type of hay, how much? Type of grain, how much? Any other supplements/additives?

As for a weight builder, there are many choices...."Fat Cat" "Cool Calories", Progressive's Envision

[Las Olas]

Zahena,

The Smart Gain is not making your horse mean. Your horse is just feeling better because of the excess calories in his diet. He'll have more energy and if he was skinny (underfed?), then he has just cause for hoarding his food. As long as he is not actively trying to attack, bite or kick you, I would leave him alone. I don't like anyone standing over my shoulder when I eat :). If he is actively trying to hurt you or anyone else, then he needs to realize that that is NOT ok and will need to be corrected.

Good luck!

[deltawave]

What else is he eating? If his belly's full of hay all the time, he may not get so wonky about his "meals".

[S1969]

It says it increases their appetitie which my boy doesn't need. Thoughts on this making him mean and another option to move him onto? He has picked up SOME weight but he's still pretty thin so complete supplement removal is not an option.

I guess I'm curious what it's supposed to do, if you don't neeed it to increase their appetite. It's only 2oz/day....it can't be doing much in comparison to the rest of her diet. What/how much are you feeding your TB?

When I got my TB mare she was at least 200lbs underweight. In her case she had just not been fed enough and had just had a foal....she was hungry! In doing research on feeding horses for weight gain, I was surprised when I calculated the actual calories needed for horses to gain weight. Don't have the numbers available anymore, but I think in the end we were aiming to get my mare up to at least 25,000-30,000 calories/day.

Estimating ~1000 calories per lb. of hay....you need 30lbs hay to get there, which can be hard depending on the horse and the barn/turnout setup. We had great luck with adding alfalfa hay to her ration (which has a higher calorie content) and because she loved it we knew she'd eat every piece. We also added a lb or so of hay stretcher pellets to her grain (Triple Crown Senior) twice a day, and blanketed her for the winter so she didn't burn extra calories.

Personally, I really doubt that the weight gain supplements make much of a difference, unless there is some other reason the horse is under weight -- e.g. if they don't have an appetite for some reason. Good luck!

[Appsolute]

I fed smart gain to my filly when she was underweight.

Its a good supplement with fats, pre / probiotics, proteins, and fenugreek for flavor (and appetite)

It DID help my filly gain weight, but it did not make her "mean".

Honestly I wouldn't think it is the supplement.

[zahena]

Well, when we first got him, he was very underfed. I dont' think they did it intentionally, I just think they didn't know better. he was thin, but his teeth were also bad and he needed a good wormer.

I started him on the Smart Gain about 3 months ago and that's when the ear pinning began! I've had him since April and I used to be able to groom him in his stall without concerns. Now he REFUSES to be groomed even if he only has hay in his stall.

Maybe he is feeling better with more groceries, but he's been getting fed his current regime for awhile.

He gets coastal hay twice a day (sometimes three, because I always toss him extra when I leave on nights I teach). He gets 3 lbs of pellets twice a day and three pounds of beet pulp once a day with his supplements. We just recently increased him to 3 lbs because the manager I work with is really trying to put some pounds on him. She hates a thin horse!

As far as him always being thin, well, I've had him less than a year and he came to me this way. He's TB so I expected a hard keeper.

When he's turned out and they feed them hay, he's perfectly happy to share it with his gelding friends, just not to have anyone near him if he's in his stall. Like I said, this is new behavior. Before he was always a love in his stall even with his grain.

[ladipus]

ULCERS often change their attitudes and temperaments-i'd look into something to soothe his belly and see if it makes a difference(Gastroguard-is the best for treating)then as far as supp's go-Finish Line's U7 gastric aid and Corta Flx U Gard Soln all work great for maintenance,and probiotics to help ease digestion such as fastrack,probios or tractguard work great...along w/ feeding something that's low in NSC(starches/sugars)something in the low teen's preferably. Try taking away the smartgain...try rice bran pellets or buckeye ultimate finish or Progressive Nutritions' Envision classic-they're all palatable extruded fat supplements in pellet form that most horses readily eat-it safely adds cool calories-you can also try plain soaked beet pulp, and/or alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets/cubes -any combo to suit your guy. No matter how much you're feeding him and no matter what supp's he's getting ulcers will prevent him from gaining/maintaining proper weight.

[BornToRide]

You horse may have weight gain issues because of ulcers. Feeding grain in order to get them to gain weight can actually backfire because it promotes the formation of ulcers too. It is also know that grain can make some horses more aggressive. In addition it generally increases colic risk by about 4 x and can make horse fret weight off as well.

I woudld simply feed him more hay and perhaps add some alfalfa if he tolerates it well. You could also add some flax or BOSS to help him gain weight.

At the same time I would work on healing the digestive tract and support it for optimal function. Have him scoped for ulcers if you can, or opt for supportive ulcer care.

I would definitely stop feeding smart grain, since his attitude change seems to be directly related to it.

[dwblover]

I must agree with the other poster who said your horse may just be feeling better now that he is gaining weight. I have worked with a rescue in the past, and you wouldn't believe the attitude change in some of those horses! They come in very thin and totally docile and quiet. Then they start to put on weight and their true personality comes out. Ever heard the horrible phrase "starve them into submission'? They just may not have the energy to do anything while they are thin. You may notice a lot of changes in your horse as he gains weight and feels better. Now that's not to say he'll be a monster, but his personality might very well change. But horses that have gone through long periods of food deprivation do often become very territorial at feeding time. But as long as he is respecting you, ie no biting, lashing out or turning his butt to you, than I would completely ignore the ear pinning and just let him eat. I really, really don't think it is the Smartgain though.

[findeight]

Any animal that has gone without tends to be really possesive of their food. My rescue was as you describe as soon as he started feeling better...so have some cats and dogs I have rehabbed. They just are afraid you will take it away-or eat it.

In the camp of feeling better and just protective of the food and a little territorial.

I just don't blame them that much. If it gets to be a problem and you cannot muck or go in and halter them, cut the amount of hay back to where they'll clean it up in time for you to get access, feed a larger portion in the evening when they are done for the night. Time your routine to give him lots of time to clean up.

Mine gradually lost the behavior over about 2 years. have had one that was never starved but just did not want anybody in his stall when he was eating. I find that fair enough and worked around it.

BTW, I generally don't like supplements to rebuild condition. A balanced diet over time provides the best result. But this particular one is not responsible for the territorial behavior...which should go away in time as he learns there will always be enough.

[Big Holsteiner Mare]

Not to hijack your thread, but I also have a horse that looks like an Ethiopian no matter what I do. He gets at least 30# T & A per day, 12# of TC Senior, 2# Empower, 1 cup Corn Oil. Has been powerpaked, had teeth done 2X, checked for ulcers (is on U7 in case), is on daily wormer, the whole nine yards. Still looks the same.... I am literally at my wits end. He is 15 yr old Belg WB, moderate work, 1/2 day turnout. My next move is to try the TC Training Formula which is new, 13/13 but $22.00 per bag. Also can try Ultium. Any suggestions would be great!

PS _ cannot have straight alfalfa, goes bonkers!

[kelser01]

I had a similar issue with my TB and Strategy was a life saver. I started supplementing what the barn was feeding him and here is what his daily intake was TWICE a day:

5 lb Purina Country Acres 12% Pellet
4 quarts (dry measurement) Beet Pulp
3 quarts Steam Rolled Oats
3 quarts Alfalfa Cubes
2-4 oz Corn Oil
½ cup Ground Flax Seeds

Now he gets 3.5-4 lbs Strategy Twice a day plus hay 4 times a day. He never got mean about it, but I cant stand "the ugly" face in his stall. So maybe he just refrains from doing it when Im around.

[zahena]

I always get the ugly face no matter what. He usually starts out happy to see me and then pins his ears. He's just worse at feeding time. I usually try to avoid taking him away from his feed.

The good news is that he has gained a significant amount on the weight gainer but I might try swapping to cool cals. Or another grain. I don't want to heat him up because he's honestly a hot little tamale anyway!

His attitude has changed alot lately. He used to be very hard to ride, heavy in the hand and just generally tough. As his jumping improved, he became snotty in his stall and very peaceful and easier on the flat.

I dont' see any signs of ulcers. He's pretty easy going about everything and doesn't mind leg pressure, is fine about being girthed up but we could always discuss that possibility with the vet.

[BornToRide]

I dont' see any signs of ulcers. He's pretty easy going about everything and doesn't mind leg pressure, is fine about being girthed up but we could always discuss that possibility with the vet.
That does not mean he has none! I know of a horse who never showed any symptoms at all. He was scoped due to a choke and was found to be littered with ulcers.

[RiverBendPol]

I'd be looking for ulcers too..........