How to Stop Horse Bolting When Getting Turned Out?

[tlw]

Problem: Our 20 year TB retired eventer will NOT stand when released in his pasture. He does that bolting thing, which scares everybody who gets the short straw and has to take him out. It really only happens when its cold (at least what we consider cold in south Louisiana). He is always the second (and last) horse in that pasture. We face him in the direction of the pasture and his friend (so we don't get kicked when he wheels) and put the rope around his neck, etc. but he makes such a big move its hard to keep him in place until WE want him to go.

Solution: ?????

[Catmando]

I am always armed with a large carrot that I break up into 3-4 pieces. My horse has learned to turn and face me...and wait for the pieces to be placed on the ground. This gives me time to walk away before the explosion.

[3dazey]

That's such a dangerous habit. Give him something he loves to eat every single time he gets turned out, AFTER the halter comes off. He'll learn pretty fast to stick around. All my horses know this and I never have a problem.

[eponacowgirl]

Uggg.... we have one that does this and we have tired EVERYTHING.

The best solution we have right now (and I'm sure it will stop working soon) is to shove a carrot in her mouth right while we take the halter off. We've. tried. everything. else.

Putting multiple halters on, leading her right to the hay ring, turning out first, second, third, fourth- everything short of leaving her out 24/7.

If anyone has ANY solutions I'd love to hear them! This is usually a fabulously well mannered mare- I can ride her without a bridle on the trails- things like that.

[Capriole]

Walk through the gate and turn him to face the gait. Feed him an especially yummy treat before and after taking his halter off.

[Christa P]

We had a problem with a horse that would take off as soon as as he heard the snap click. What I did was put a lunge line on him with a chain over his nose. When we got to the paddock I clicked the snap but did not take it off. He took off and hit the end of the line. He did this TWICE and I never had a problem again.

Christa

PS I wonder if another possibility would be some kind of small pen set up where you could take the halter off in a confined area and then open a gate to the pasture.

[exvet]

Ditto on the turning facing the gate and feeding a treat. We stopped similar behavior in a relatively short time frame by doing so. Now we don't have to use a treat anymore but occasionally still do just to reinforce the desired behavior.

[slc2]

"We face him in the direction of the pasture and his friend (so we don't get kicked when he wheels) and put the rope around his neck, etc. but he makes such a big move its hard to keep him in place until WE want him to go."

This is extremely dangerous. Please stop doing that.

Take the horse to a small paddock and teach him how to be released. Have a trainer do it if you cannot get the timing right.

Put the horse's normal lead rope on his halter, and attach a longe line to the halter too. Bring him into the paddock, and turn around and face the gate. Make him stand still and pay attention to you. If he tries to get away, hold him with the longe line, and bring him back up to you. Make him stand. Make him back up. Make him walk forward. Make him stand. Make him wait.

Some people have luck with a chain shank over the nose for this. Others just get the horse to rearing and being even more dangerous.

Some people will then leave the paddock, so the horse is on the other side of the fence, before releasing him. Others will teach the horse to back up instead of wheel around. Most will teach the horse to stand at the gate till the horse hears a release word. If the horse wheels around, bring him back with the longe line. Rinse, repeat.

Bringing feed for the horse only works if the horse wants the feed more than he wants to join his friend. It doesn't always work. If it does, lucky you. Bring food with you and put it down for the horse near the gate.

Of course, then, if the basic problem is just that the horse is spoiled, he'll be barging over top of you to get the food away from you as you walk toward the gate.

A dangerous habit, and dangerous to break, too. Sorry, but if you have developed the problem or allowed it to continue, and now need to come to an internet bb to ask for what to do, you probably are also going to get hurt trying to fix it. Be careful, get help.

[EarwenES]

I'm inclined to agree with Catmando, that is what I would try first.

As a teenager I fed at a barn with an epidemic of horses that wheeled and kicked when they were let out and my trainer, from another barn, showed me how to pinch their nostrils holding my hand over their nose to wait until I let them go (these horses would rip their head out of the halter once you unsnapped it). Within a few times it cured the ripping their heads out of the halter and calmed them down a bit.

I think the carrots on the ground is the best plan though, and it prevents them taking off while you are still in the vicinity....

Good Luck!!!

[ButterflyIris]

OMG could SLC be just a little more insulting to the OP??

Geesh!

[egontoast]

What I do with horses that want to rip their heads out of the halters and bolt off is -face the horse towards the gate, loop the lead line around the neck and take a hold of that, snugged up tight high on neck (as if horse wearing a dog collar) held so I have the horse under control after the halter comes off. Use 'ho' or 'wait' whatever you want to teach them and be assertive.

That has usually been enough but with a bad one that I'm retraining I've used two halters and treats and teach the horse to stand quietly after the first halter comes off and keep removing and putting on the first halter until the horse is good. Then do the rope thing on the neck while removing the second .

I probably would turn that horse out first and put his hay very close to the gate or release him right by his hay pile, maybe even put a carrot very visibly on top! so he sees it and wants to go right to that instead of running off.

[Icecapade]

agree with SLC.... leaving them facing the pasture is far more dangerous rather than turning them around.

we had a few horses who would do that because they were bathed after a good work out or whatever...

a line around the neck is always a good start...
try two halters
play with the latch drop your hand and pop on the "oh goody I'm free moment" they shouldn't have enough leverage or build up to rip you off your feet.. make sure you are standing also in a position where YOU have the most leverage.... you WILL NOT win a pulling contest with your horse. You must have the upper hand and with a horse its one of several things but in this case its leverage!

its just a training issue... a lack of repsect takes a little time and usually within a week you can solve it. A horse should always stand when you tell it too... no exceptions.

good luck!

[slc2]

I'm not attempting to be insulting, I'm attempting to be realistic. What they are doing is EXTREMELY unsafe. I have seen people get very, very badly hurt that way. I also know that it can be very very difficult to react quickly and appropriately unless one has a great deal of experience curing this, and I DO believe that if they are asking for help with something like this, they need someone onsite to prevent them from doing something MORE dangerous than what they are already doing.

[boosma47]

My old TB has done this all his life if he gets the chance, especially with someone new. I have a very crooked pinkie finger and messed up right hand to show for it.

It is a dangerous situation.

Some suggestions

- change the order of turn out. He goes out first so he doesn't have an excuse to catch up with his buddy. Be ready with a treat if he is quieter.

- back him in the gate and keep him backing until you want to stop. This gets him away from the gate/area where he is used to taking over. Make him stand. If he makes a move, back him some more and try again.Give him a treat for waiting.

- Ask him to lower his head and turn it toward you to get treat. As he is eating it, quietly release him.

- don't grab the lead in anticipation. Just hold firmly and quietly.

- if he dances and gets worked up going to the turnout area, back him to it.

The first three can all be done together. It is changing the routine, encouraging him to stay focused on you and your signals.

Good luck with this. It can be scary. Your safety is paramount.

If he pulls away before you release the lead, let him go. It shouldn't be too much of a problem for him to trail lead around with him. Horses are pretty good at avoiding entanglements. He might just decide he'd rather have the lead off.
-

[enjoytheride]

I deal with several stallions that had this habit and it is not acceptable. If they can't walk out nice and have their leadropes taken off nice they don't go out.

Put two leadropes on him or put a rope halter and lead under his other halter. If he pulls with the second lead rope put a chain on his nose and unbuckle the other leadrope while holding the one with the chain.

If he gets worked up on the way to turnout turn around and put him back in his stall.

Don't let him go, if you have to use a leadrope with a chain and a set of gloves and spin him around hard toward you.

[Ajierene]

If he has been doing this for years, it may be a hard habit to break, but you can start with changing the routine. Is there a reason he is always last in the field? Try putting him in first. Also, face him towards the gate when taking the halter off so he is more fixed on you than his friend or the field.

You can also work on training. Take him out into his field, walk him around once and praise (so long as he is a gentleman), then back to his stall. A half hour or hour later, the same thing. Repeat a few times, then walk halfway around his field, unclip him and tell him he's a good boy and walk away. Continue this routine for a while, varying the amount of times he goes out to the field and back to the stall to be released.

If you can, leave the halter on during training. One of the clues he has that he is free is that his halter is off. Depending on the horse, he may get the hint then you can start taking the halter off and see how he does.

The difference may just be turning him out before his friend, so he has nothing to bolt off to.

[tlw]

Not offended by SLC but he/she does assume some things not in evidence and I'm sure his/her heart is in the right place.

In any event, with this particular horse, the wheeling & bolting with a buck and sometimes kick is more dangerous than a straight bolt gallop with no wheeling, bucking, kicking, etc. We have fixed another of our horses that developed this bad habit while off at another barn for some training and none of our other horses have this habit so it's not something we're causing. And, I thought this should be the perfect place to ask such a question. Thanks all for your concern and advice.

[Char]

I've used the rope halter under the regular halter trick, I've also used a stud chain and simply taken the leadrope and draped it over his poll, then pulled it over both ears as if it's the halter, and then been ready with the stud chain and gave a severe shanking if he went to bolt.

He has injured people with this habit before, so I went to drastic measures to prevent him from doing it.

I also have him turn and face me and the gate before I turn him loose. Treats for standing are also administered.

I hope you are able to spend the time with him to curb this behavior. It certainly is NOT a plesant one...:no:

[Auventera Two]

More turnout. Works everytime. If the horse is just nuts to bolt off when released, then he has WAY too much pent up energy. Probably too much grain + too much stall = dangerous horse. All the carrots in the world aren't going to fix your problem.

[Thomas_1]

First off he's not bolting. He's just excited to be out and wants to burn off some energy. When the horse is like this they then sometimes forget who is the leader and if you're not careful you can have an accident and get dragged, knocked or kicked even as they race off. This often happens more in winter because the horse may have been inside for longer and/or is having a feast of high energy food and no opportunity to burn off the energy. Or else they're desperate to be out for food or company. So you might want to consider how you manage those elements too.

I've just been doing a horse that did exactly what you describe and because his owner had 3 fingers broken. So make sure you wear gloves and hat and never loop the rope round your hand. I always use a long (20 feet) lunge line rope not a short lead rope for horses like this.

I don't know how good his ground manners are in general but you need to ensure he walks properly with you and knows the word stand.

Try if you can, to vary the routine and times you turn him out so he's not getting over excited anticipating what he knows is to come.

When you've got him through the gate then you need to turn him round so he's facing the gate and say stand and take off his head collar and then release him quietly.

Treats can work but to be honest that's not an approach I like to take for anything other than the short term. I find it takes the focus of you and the horse thinks about the treat rather than you leading it. Other thing I always do with ones that do this is I take them on a long line not a short lead rope and so I have more control of them and if they go to p* off I give them a real sharp tug back and make them go round me and only once they're behaving and standing quiety do I undo their headcollar. But you need a long line for that for the leverage.

[RunForIt]

I second using the chain and lunge line routine - it worked with my bolter but took several months to convince him EVERY TIME he bolted the chain was going to snap his nose - sooooo much nicer to stand and walk away in a civilized manner. Wear gloves...you're going to need them.

For safety sake, I suggest using the buckle on halter and letting it drop off so you can step back, rather than the snap and pulling the halter over the head. :cool:

[ezmissg]

My TB mare used to do it too. Barn workers definitely contributed to it, and I made sure to teach them step by step, so that their actions weren't undoing the work I did. [I also think my mare liked the drama of a big exit!]

Yes to treats...

I give carrots bringing in, as well as turning out. One when the halter goes on; another at the gate before opening it; and another after exiting and closing the gate.

Then, the reverse for turnout -- one on the outside of the gate; another inside the gate; another two when taking the halter off.

As to removing the halter -- I stood her parallel to the gate so that she wasn't facing the herd. And, I didn't start the process until she was standing still, not jigging, etc. [Additional leading work might be needed]

Never pull the halter over her head (i.e., no throat latch) from the front. Stand at the shoulder. If you need double effort, put the leadrope around his neck and hold both strands in your right hand while undoing the halter. Key here was to give the first carrot as you start to unbuckle halter, then only lower the part of halter in your left hand while still keeping the end in your right hand applying light pressure on the outside and top of his head (poll). In other words, try not to move your right hand at all. Quickly transfer the end in your left hand to your right hand, and feed the last bit of carrot. Give a pat simultaneously.

Yikes, that takes a lot of words, and I hope I managed to illustrate the point! And, yes, it took about 10 times to get it to work efficiently. But, now, I almost have to shoo her away...well, comparatively!!! ;)

Good luck!

[IFG]

I've done the chain and lungeline too. That worked, but much easier was the treat method.

My horse loves peppermints. I hold the peppermint and crinkle the wrapper while undoing the snap, then I give it to him once he is free. If he is really bad, I do this from the other side of the gate. Then if he reels and kicks, I am in a safe space.

[SillyHorse]

Two leads. First of all, do not face him in the direction of the pasture, turn him to face you so he is not distracted. The whole point is that he must pay attention to YOU, not to his buddy out in the field.

As Thomas said, wear gloves. Put two (or even three) leads on the halter. Be sure you have a very firm grip on them, especially the one(s) you won't unsnap, but as pointed out before, never wrap a lead around any part of your body. When you unsnap the first and he starts to whirl around, give him a big old tug with the second one and yell "WHOA!" Repeat if necessary until he stands quietly, then release the second lead.

I've used this method successfully on some very confirmed pasture "bolters."

[FindersKeepers]

Try putting him out first. If he's going out last, he's trying to catch up with his buddies and taking off saying "hey guys, wait for me!!!" If he's out first, he is the one that has to wait for everyone else.

The real fix is to figure out why he is bolting. If it's cold and he's fresh and trying to catch up with his buddies... well then maybe just on cool days he has to go out first.

It doesn't sound as if he does it every single trip out there, so I really wouldn't jump to an aggressive fix.

[Justmyluck]

I work with two horses who used to do this at the barn I work at. Both had back shoes so it was a very very dangerous habit. You need to turn and make them face the gate.

For the first horse I found out that he loved his withers scratched, so I would turn and make him face the gate and rub with all my might. He would drop his head and wiggle his lip. While scratching I would slowly slide the halter off and continure scratching. He was so distracted by the scratches he forgot about the bolt. For the first week once I stoped and was out the gate he would bolt. After that he would follow me along the fence after I left looking for rubs.

The second hated to be touched so the first's plan would work with him so I got a flake of hay and put it by the gate and faced him towards the gate and his hay and would let him start eating then slide the halter off and he would continue munching away. As time past I would move the flake farther and farther from the gate but still released him at the gate and he would wander off looking for the hay because he knew it was out there. Eventually you can phase out he flake all together.

With this habit be very very very careful!!! I wish you well.

[McVillesMom]

I did the treat thing with my guy years ago, too. He was to the point of being dangerous, but after really working with him with the treats, he's been good now for years.

It's funny - the BM said to me a while ago (we've been at this barn for just over a year - this was probably 6 mos ago) "I figured out how to keep him from dragging me around when I go to turn him out." I was a little surprised because he doesn't really do that anymore - but he IS a TB, so you never know. :D I asked "How?" He said "Halter!" Apparently he had been taking him out without one. :eek: I said "Yeah, that would help." :lol:

ETA: I tried lots of other stuff before the treats, like the rope around the neck, etc but if they are really confirmed about wanting to bolt off, they'll just drag you - especially if you're too dumb to let go. Ask me how I know :lol:

[rothmpp]

Perhaps this is a dumb question, but - have you tried turning him out first so there is no buddy to go tearing off to?

Alternatively, I have used a method where I lead this type of horse deep into the turnout, perhaps lead him for some time, so that he stopped anticipating when he was going to be released. Also - I know that some have real issues with horses being turned out with halters on, but if you use a breakaway (or turn your non-breakaway into a breakaway with a bit of twine) halter, then you can unclip him when he is calm, and he will stop anticipating so much.

Good luck - I know TBs can be a challenge since they are often not particularly motivated by food.

[dags]

The real fix is to figure out why he is bolting. If it's cold and he's fresh and trying to catch up with his buddies... well then maybe just on cool days he has to go out first.


Could be one that was frequently chased as soon as the shank was off, horrible habit to fix.

First rule of thumb is keep them facing you when you release, and use the moment they spin to get the heck outta dodge.

As for fixing it, there's the less involved/bribery approach, such as treats, etc. Try taking him out with a bucket of goodies, enough to keep him occupied while you take the halter off, and keep him occupied for a few minutes thereafter. Just step out after the halter is removed, does he bolt when he finishes the bucket? Or just kinda look up and saunter off?

Otherwise, doubling up on halters and leads, rope halter or chains needed, is where to begin if you want to correct this behavior by getting him to respect you in turnout as he does everywhere else. This is not nearly as easy and should be handled by someone with confidence and experience. The various ways to accomplish this have been outlined nicely above.

Turning him out before his buddies is probably a good start also.

[ise@ssl]

We don't take halters off for turnout but we do walk them in and turn them toward the gate before un-clipping them. We had one horse that had a really bad bolt problem - more fright than anything else. We did use 2 leadlines and we did give treats at the gate.

We also spent time walking him into the paddock turning him around and walking him back out again - making him stand facing the gate until he relaxed and then walking him out. We would also ask him to back up on the leadline away from from gate.

In the barn when we put him in his stall we made him turn in the aisle and back into the stall - this really made him listen to us and think about trusting us to back up. This all took time but it worked.

I would be quite nervous to bend down and put carrot pieces on the ground with a horse that spins and bolts or even just bolts. Too dangerous.

[Equsrider]

I had a clyde/TB cross that did this when I first got him.About ripped my arm out of my shoulder a few times because I was not going to let go of the lead rope until he would stand quiet. His hearing was phenomenal. As soon as I would ever so slowly and quietly begin to slide the snap open he would bolt.This horse was an addict for peppermints, as soon as he would hear the crackling plastic I always had his full attention.We began our training sessions with the chain over his nose, if he walked into the pasture and stoood stil if even for 3 seconds he got a peppermint and if he reacted after that he got the hardest yank on the chain I could muster.If he would stand again after the discipline he would recieve another pepermint. I Just repeated this scenario, over and over again.After 3 days he was definetely better after a month, pretty darn good and after 3 months I could totally unhook him and he would stand dead quiet, get his peppermint, and stay there until I pushed him away "to go play". At this point I was comfortable with letting my 10 year old daughter putting him out. But the routine was the same EVERY TIME, WITH EVERY PERSON HANDLING HIM. He also was cold backed and would turn and bolt and buck as soon as you sat in the saddle. He got over that too, again with pepermints and the SAME ROUTINE EVERY TIME. I owned that horse for 9 years and he was a joy! but I had to think outside the box with him, I don't think he ever would have turned around with too much hard discipline, obviously people had tried that on him before I got him, and were not successful.they're all different, you just need to try different approaches until you find something that works.Be careful though, a horse with no manners or repect for us humans, is a danger.If I hadn't had mine at home where I was the one to work with him I would have sent him on down the road!

[mbm]

i agree with slc and icecapade etc..... i also like the idea of two halters and use a lunge line so you have line to let the horse get away from you if they need space to kick etc. (yes, i know the shouldn't kick, but many *do* when anxious etc... better to let them do it away from you while working on this issue... ie one issue at a time)

i have worked thru similar by:

1st - wear gloves, use a lunge line and 2 halters, and a chain if needed, and wear a helmet.

make sure that the horse is already worked before being turned out ie lunge or ride the horse and get the bucks out before tuning him out if possible (tire him out so he has less energy to contain) .

make sure you turn him out first - no buddies in the field.

keep his head & body facing the gate, get his attention on you (use treats if needed) , open and act like you are going to release the first halter and dont allow him to bolt away. an easy way to do this is to keep one hand on the halter and pull his head towards you so there is a bend in his neck.... this means he cant use his neck against you.... use a chain if needed. try not to keep a steady pull as he will win. try to do tiny give/releases so he cant lock agsint you. open and close the first halter and prepare for the bolt.... dont allow him to do it.... key is keeping his neck bent and him off balance.

do this over and over and over until the horse will stand to have the first halter taken off and put back on. this may take 5 minutes or an hour or more. you need patience and you cant let him sorta do it right - he needs to do it to your satisfaction the first time.

this can be cured in one sitting if you have patience and if you are not afraid or tense.

in the end it is all about CONTROL. you must control the horse at all times. if you cant please get someone to help you before you get hurt.

ETA: i like ise@ssl's post too.... but if this is about taking the halter off you may still need to desensitize him to the actual action of takign the halter off.

ps - please be careful and get help if you are scared etc. please. i broke my little finger on a horse that did this... not a huge injury but dam it hurts in the winter and is a reminder that i allowed a horse to do that to me. :(

[seeuatx]

G started doing that after he lost a wrestling match with one of those metal gates. He was scared to death of them, and would bolt off as soon as the lead unclipped. Anyone that turned out started taking a mint with them, and he learned to stand within a week or so.

[gottagrey]

I had a former trainer who practiced a technique where all the horses when turned out would be turned around so they faced the gate; halters come of and then were allowed to leave. I would the treats in pocket routine - maybe give him one on the way out to the pasture so he knows they are there; then give him one right before halter/lead is removed and a last one when he's free.. do that a couple of times - lessen the treats some so he doesn't become a nudge. I would also try shifting the order in which they go out.

[Mtn trails]

We had a problem with a horse that would take off as soon as as he heard the snap click. What I did was put a lunge line on him with a chain over his nose. When we got to the paddock I clicked the snap but did not take it off. He took off and hit the end of the line. He did this TWICE and I never had a problem again.

Christa

PS I wonder if another possibility would be some kind of small pen set up where you could take the halter off in a confined area and then open a gate to the pasture.

I had a horse like this and used almost the same method, except I put two halters on and the bottom one had the chain over the nose. I pulled the first one off and she'd try to bolt, then hit the chain and boy was that one surprised mare. :lol: I did it twice and never had a problem after that.

[2016 RoyalCrown KTug]

Didnt have time to read through entire thread, so maybe this was already mentioned . . .

You could try turning him out in a smaller fiels, ie round pen. This would limit the space and area that he could turn and bolt to.

And someone mentioned 6 or 8 great ideas in one post.

Good Luck!

[Foxtrot's]

They are so good at anticipating your moves - even the hand near the halter before unclicking will be a chance for him to prepare to charge off. Do a few fake moves.

[Bogie]

This is what I did when my big (1350 lb) Trakehner gelding decided he could decide when to run off. I used two lead ropes and wore gloves. I put a chain over his nose, but like someone else said, that's not always the best choice.

The first few times I unsnapped the first rope he tried to bolt. We had a "come to Jesus" meeting about that and after a few times he learned that he needed to wait quietly until he was "officially" releasedI

I'm not a huge fan of using food as I think it often creates a different problem.

Two leads. First of all, do not face him in the direction of the pasture, turn him to face you so he is not distracted. The whole point is that he must pay attention to YOU, not to his buddy out in the field.

As Thomas said, wear gloves. Put two (or even three) leads on the halter. Be sure you have a very firm grip on them, especially the one(s) you won't unsnap, but as pointed out before, never wrap a lead around any part of your body. When you unsnap the first and he starts to whirl around, give him a big old tug with the second one and yell "WHOA!" Repeat if necessary until he stands quietly, then release the second lead.

I've used this method successfully on some very confirmed pasture "bolters."

[narcisco]

I've tried the two halters, two leads, longe line and there is invariably a violent fight. It can be quite dangerous, especially if the horse gets away with all that gear on (and any horse can out pull a human).

The following method has worked for me on numerous occasions. First off, remember you must RE-TRAIN the horse to be turned out, not force him to stand or sneak him off the rope so he doesn't really notice. This a simply another "whoa means whoa" training issue. The horse must WANT to stay, not be forced to stay. You have to revisit whoa, then move it to the place you're having problems. So you might practice the following first when turning him loose in his stall. Do it 5 or 10 times.

Then, turn the horse out, as usual. However. Once he is out and has been out for awhile, go catch him. Bring a bag of carrot pieces if you like. Lead him back out the gate. Immediately turn back and go back through the gate to his pasture. Leave the halter on at first. Keep him facing you. Give him as many carrots as you need to make him "whoa," then unsnap him. Walk away for a minute or so. Go catch him again. Do it again, and again.

Plan on spending 45 minutes to an hour with him the first day. Repeat the catch and release at the gate at LEAST 30 times the first session. Keep count. If he is being good and standing still, and they usually will, then remove the halter 10 or 15 times as you turn him loose.

At any point if he roars off, just go catch him again, and start your 30 releases all over again.

The next day repeat as necessary. It shouldn't take more than 5 sessions to change him, as long as you are extremely consistent with your methods. If the horse reverts to the old behavior, which should be many months away, if ever again, it is usually the fault of a handler who doesn't follow procedures. Go back and repeat the same process, but it usually only take a few tries the next time.

This is not hard to fix, but does take someone with a great deal of patience, experience and exact attention to the seemingly small piece that whoa means stand still.

And always remember: this habit started because someone at some point chased this horse at the moment of turnout to see him play. Never let anyone turn your horse out and cluck and shu him off to get him more excited.

[goeslikestink]

First off he's not bolting. He's just excited to be out and wants to burn off some energy. When the horse is like this they then sometimes forget who is the leader and if you're not careful you can have an accident and get dragged, knocked or kicked even as they race off. This often happens more in winter because the horse may have been inside for longer and/or is having a feast of high energy food and no opportunity to burn off the energy. Or else they're desperate to be out for food or company. So you might want to consider how you manage those elements too.

I've just been doing a horse that did exactly what you describe and because his owner had 3 fingers broken. So make sure you wear gloves and hat and never loop the rope round your hand. I always use a long (20 feet) lunge line rope not a short lead rope for horses like this.

I don't know how good his ground manners are in general but you need to ensure he walks properly with you and knows the word stand.

Try if you can, to vary the routine and times you turn him out so he's not getting over excited anticipating what he knows is to come.

When you've got him through the gate then you need to turn him round so he's facing the gate and say stand and take off his head collar and then release him quietly.

Treats can work but to be honest that's not an approach I like to take for anything other than the short term. I find it takes the focus of you and the horse thinks about the treat rather than you leading it. Other thing I always do with ones that do this is I take them on a long line not a short lead rope and so I have more control of them and if they go to p* off I give them a real sharp tug back and make them go round me and only once they're behaving and standing quiety do I undo their headcollar. But you need a long line for that for the leverage.

i would do as thomas does and as you said there another horse to then also vary who goes out 1st 2nd or last so the horse isnt stuck in a stable waiting and building up his engery ready to fly becuase he was the last one out
change it so they all have a turn 1st last or second etc so none are left till last all the time in said stable and revervse the roll when bringing in- horses then will wiat patiencely and you will have more control and more respect from the horse
asthomas says dont do treats but a pat and scratch and good boy using your tones of voice
you gob is the biggest aid you have so use your tones when please or not
for exsample a dog poohed on the floor you would scold it ie tell it off in deep voice
but if he brought you a newspaper you would have a higher pitched voice and say good boy
dont talk namby pamby and coos and baby talk as thats not giving a clear signal or command to the horse horse like to be spoken to as you would to another human being

[Ambrey]

Since your turnout situation is entirely different from ours, and your horse is probably different too, this might not help- but this is what I did when my big guy started getting antsy into the turnout with me.

We walk into the turnout together, in regular leading pose (meaning his head should be down, his shoulder parallel with me. Then I turn him around so he is facing the gate, not the turnout, when I take his halter off. Again, his head should be down (relaxed, not up and looky). His halter doesn't come off until he's paying attention to me and not what he's planning to go do next.

Just the change in turnout routine changed his behavior- and mine, since I was concentrating on the routine and not visualizing his big ol' butt flying in my face as he took off ;)

[Sing Mia Song]

I had one years ago who did this, and his hearing was also incredibly acute.

I led him out with a chain shank over the nose and a regular lead rope attached to the chin. Held the chain shank fairly close, unsnapped the rope, he spun and hit the end of the chain HARD. Put lead rope back on, walked him in a circle, unsnapped lead rope again, instant replay of spinning and hitting chain shank. Third time was a charm: he stood and waited for me to undo the chain shank.

I did this for a week and he was cured. It's an obnoxious and dangerous habit.

[magnum]

Don't laugh but go watch some Cesar Milan (Dog Whisperer). Or, of course, you can view any of the N.H. videos.

I mention Cesar because he does a stellar job of explaining the whole "energy/ intensity" output of the animals, as well as that of their handlers. He emphasizes "calm assertive" in dealing with them at all times, esp. those who are unruly, independent and/ or "hyper (the horses, not their handlers, LOL!)."

The problem you are dealing with begins WELL BEFORE you get to the pasture. His attention is NOT on you to begin with, he is elsewhere in his mind. You a have to intervene BEFORE his lack of attention manifests itself with an increased level of intensity which inevitably leads to the bolting off thing.

By remaining CALM (calm/assertive), I have fixed too many horses of these types of behaviors to list them all.

The trick is upon getting them out of the stall, making sure you put NO TIME FRAME on the "fix." You make them take one step at a time out of the stall -- forwards and backwards one step each way. Most often, these types will basically chest you and bolt out of the stall (also dangerous) at first. They have to learn you have ALL DAY TO FIX IT (do not be in a hurry, they pick up on that and it only feeds in to what they want anyway).. If they bolt out of the stall, they go back in to the stall every time until they calm down. No beating, no raised voices, NO TREATS/ bribes .... just the patience of Job is needed, here.

When handling the horse, the second you see that "far off" look in the horse's eye (he is testing to see if you noticed!), make a request of him - forwards, backwards, sideways, turn around, etc. Just keep doing this every time he checks out on you until he learns to pay attention to YOU. If you do not, then he will build in INTENSITY. So, you have to nip it in the bud BEFORE this all starts.

Once you have his attention, you KEEP it. Do not let that energy build on itself- intensity-wise until it hits the "boiling over" points - that point where he turns, bolts and runs.

Within only a few days of handling, I can take the most anxious "bolt away" horse and have them backing in and out of the stall, up and down the aisleways of the barn, then standing and lowering their head for me, calmly, to let me remove the halter. They then turn and WALK away calmly (even on the coldest, windiest days of the year). ....

The key is to be persistent and NOT let them build up to an explosion. The explosions are 100% HANDLER ERROR - so don't blame it on the horse.

When you ALLOW that energy build to an overly intense level, it isn't the healthiest thing for a horse, anyway. They need warm up time before such activity and they need MENTAL SUPPORT from their handler. When you find yourself standing there with the lead rope on the ground and your hands in the air, you have just failed your horse. Don't blame the messenger, here. That's what just happened.

TAKE YOUR TIME and set aside some sessions to RESCHOOL the boy to some basic ground manners. It is in HIS best interest, as well as yours and anyone who must handle him, to do so. Good luck!

Magnum

[Ruby G. Weber]

This method has always worked for me.

Turn the horse out first if in a group or first if horses go out individually.

Carry a bucket of grain with you. Walk through the gate, turn the horse around to face you and the gate. Position the gate between you and the horse. Allow the horse to eat the grain with it's head over the gate, but do not turn it loose until it's all about the grain. When that happens unsnap the rope - never remove the halter from horses who bolt. Do not make a big deal about the rope. Simply unsnap and lay it over the gate. Continue to allow the horse to munch on the grain in the bucket. When the horse appears relaxed about the ordeal - because that's what it has become. - slowly remove the bucket of grain from reach of the horse and walk away.


When you go to catch the horse use the bucket of grain again. Teach the horse the bucket of grain - and consequently you - are more desireable than bolting from the gate.

[Icecapade]

what mag said.*-* luv me some ceasar... wish people would watch more!

[BumbleBee]

That has usually been enough but with a bad one that I'm retraining I've used two halters and treats and teach the horse to stand quietly after the first halter comes off and keep removing and putting on the first halter until the horse is good. Then do the rope thing on the neck while removing the second .


I do the same and it is very satisfying to just keep doing it till they give up.

If you don't remove halters it is equally effecting to just keep flicking the clip so they think they are released but they aren't over and over and over and over. lol yes when they have been perticularly rude I do find it fun.:lol:

[SkippinwithPippin]

OMG could SLC be just a little more insulting to the OP??

Geesh!

My thoughts exactly...there's no reason to be such a Negative Nancy (or Debbie Downer for those of you who watch SNL!!).

[sid]

Haven't read all the posts. But I did read Thomas' 1. I agree with almost every one of his posts. If I ever get to the UK, I would lke to meet him...wink!

Seriously, I agree, the horse isn't truly "bolting". It is simple ignoring you and has now been habituated by you allowing him to react to turnout this way. Has nothing to do with feed and such. Yes..maybe because of too many hours stuck in a stall for his age and fitness. Regardless, it has become dangerous. And that is what matters and needs to change.

My 2 cents of advice would be to practice "turnout" in a smaller area for awhile. Break the habit, by changing the venue that the horse is now habituated to.

Do what the others said regarding turning the horse around at the gate. To let a fresh or ill-trained horse loose with butt facing your way is an accident waiting to happen.

Use the "half halt" on the halter as one does under saddle...even if you have to do it a million times. Why would you expect less of a horse to the "halt' aids on the ground that you wouldn't under saddle? I have never "gotten" why owners/riders expect less of their horses on the ground as they do under saddle.

Don't "clutch". Instead, give and take -- firmness and release, though gingerly. Ask the horse to WAIT and reward with a treat for waiting. Pretend you are a hitching post. It may hit you hard..but just think, if it can "give" to an inatimate object, surely it can do the same for you. What is it in you that makes the horse ingore you more than it would a hitching post?

Change the focus and stand firm (agreed, wear gloves!). Soon the horse will learn to wait for the goodness you can provide for the "waiting".

Timing is everything. I think you need to retrain this horse in an environment and situation that it has not become habituated to. Also, I think from what I read here is that the humans are acquiescing which is making the problem worse.

[Romany]

Question for magnum - or cesar milan, if he's reading; do you really think horses are this conniving, ie, that they plot to bolt, and you can readjust their thinking with a bit of to-ing and fro-ing via the barn? Just curious?


Don't laugh but go watch some Cesar Milan (Dog Whisperer). Or, of course, you can view any of the N.H. videos.

I mention Cesar because he does a stellar job of explaining the whole "energy/ intensity" output of the animals, as well as that of their handlers. He emphasizes "calm assertive" in dealing with them at all times, esp. those who are unruly, independent and/ or "hyper (the horses, not their handlers, LOL!)."

The problem you are dealing with begins WELL BEFORE you get to the pasture. His attention is NOT on you to begin with, he is elsewhere in his mind. You a have to intervene BEFORE his lack of attention manifests itself with an increased level of intensity which inevitably leads to the bolting off thing.

By remaining CALM (calm/assertive), I have fixed too many horses of these types of behaviors to list them all.

The trick is upon getting them out of the stall, making sure you put NO TIME FRAME on the "fix." You make them take one step at a time out of the stall -- forwards and backwards one step each way. Most often, these types will basically chest you and bolt out of the stall (also dangerous) at first. They have to learn you have ALL DAY TO FIX IT (do not be in a hurry, they pick up on that and it only feeds in to what they want anyway).. If they bolt out of the stall, they go back in to the stall every time until they calm down. No beating, no raised voices, NO TREATS/ bribes .... just the patience of Job is needed, here.

When handling the horse, the second you see that "far off" look in the horse's eye (he is testing to see if you noticed!), make a request of him - forwards, backwards, sideways, turn around, etc. Just keep doing this every time he checks out on you until he learns to pay attention to YOU. If you do not, then he will build in INTENSITY. So, you have to nip it in the bud BEFORE this all starts.

Once you have his attention, you KEEP it. Do not let that energy build on itself- intensity-wise until it hits the "boiling over" points - that point where he turns, bolts and runs.

Within only a few days of handling, I can take the most anxious "bolt away" horse and have them backing in and out of the stall, up and down the aisleways of the barn, then standing and lowering their head for me, calmly, to let me remove the halter. They then turn and WALK away calmly (even on the coldest, windiest days of the year). ....

The key is to be persistent and NOT let them build up to an explosion. The explosions are 100% HANDLER ERROR - so don't blame it on the horse.

When you ALLOW that energy build to an overly intense level, it isn't the healthiest thing for a horse, anyway. They need warm up time before such activity and they need MENTAL SUPPORT from their handler. When you find yourself standing there with the lead rope on the ground and your hands in the air, you have just failed your horse. Don't blame the messenger, here. That's what just happened.

TAKE YOUR TIME and set aside some sessions to RESCHOOL the boy to some basic ground manners. It is in HIS best interest, as well as yours and anyone who must handle him, to do so. Good luck!

Magnum


FWIW, Ambrey does say purty much the same thing: be patient, think like your horse, and stay one jump ahead of him/her. ;)

To the OP - lots of good answers, but the clear and present solution; make sure naughty horse is facing towards you, not away from you, when you release it.

[VTHokie]

I've done basically the same thing that has been mentioned with treats except I carried a couple treats in one hand and let the horse sniff them several times on the way to the pasture. Face the horse to the gate, and let him sniff the treats while sliding off the halter. Let him eat the treats when the halter is over his ears and coming off his nose. After doing this a couple times, no more treats were needed.

[tlw]

I'm the OP. Loud and clear on the horse facing me with my back to the gate. Lots of other good advice. Our issue really only shows up when it's cold. Our horses get turned out at 7:30 am and stay out until 3:30 pm so they get plenty of turn out. The offender is normally good on the ground, in cross ties, etc. so when we get this bad behavior it is a bit of a surprise but we always attribute it to a 20 yr old feeling good on a cold day. NO excuse for bad manners I know. We have 5 other horses and none of them have this habit so it's not something we're doing in our normal routine. We'll work on him in a safe way and thanks for everyone's concern about our safety.

[Ambrey]

Just remember that anticipating bad behavior and visualizing it can be a self fulfilling prophecy (yes, I'm all about the Jane Savoie these days!). Good luck with the tough guy!

[Renn/aissance]

Boosma had great suggestions and I like SMS's suggestion of the double lead ropes, too; when they're doing something that dangerous, I like it when they get a taste of their own medicine and that something they do causes immediate punishment--like hitting the end of a chain shank hard.

Once he's gotten better with that, I'd take it a step further and walk him out on a rope shank with a chain shank slack. Take off the rope, hold the chain. If he's good, pat, praise, treat. Put the rope back on and lead him out again. Repeat it a few times each day, always pat, praise, treat, until he gets the idea. Then you back off the treats, using them intermittently, and then lose the chain.

[nlk]

I was always taught to turn the back facing the gate. You are more likely to get kicked with a hoof if they take off going past you (because there head was at you body and their body is behind yours) with a cow kick or a buck as they pass you.

[Bluehorsesjp]

My horse was horrible about bolting when I first got him. He also is super sensitive, so a chain over his nose was never an option. anytime you come at him with force he over reacts big time, so we went the honey route.

He gets turned out in a leather halter. On the way to the turn out he gets feed cookies or carrots. Walk through the gate still feeding treats, quietly unhook the lead rope, but continue to walk as though he is still attached to it. feed the last treat and walk away. He is always amazed that he is loose and didn't get to bolt away. And I have to say the look on his face is priceless.
As I have owned him he has gotten much better. He will still test a new person, but he doesn't try to bolt away from me anymore.

It can be a very scary habit.

I found that turning him toward me just made him bolt away harder. It was the anticipation of being let loose. Same with reaching up to take the halter off. I just tried to take the anticipation away.
By walking with him and unclipping the lead rope there was forward motion that he thinks is under your control.

[PonyPenny]

This is what worked for me. I put two leathers halters on my horse. One with a regular lead and one that had chain on it hooked to a long lead rope or lunge line. I also made sure I had on gloves and a helmet. I would tell him to whoa! and unclipped the lead without the chain. When he bolted, I would jerk him back with the other lead rope. It took about 10 tries before he stopped bolting. I then could take both halters off and he stood like a gentleman. He sometimes needed refresher training, but it really solved the problem and made turnouts much safer.

[hamsterpoop]

I'll have to try some of these. One of our guys is terrible about this.

[mkmallory]

at the barn i board at for part of the year, my horse would nearly always bolt when as soon as i slipped the halter off, so i kept the lead rope around is neck and that seemed to solve it partially (he is pretty respectful in general) the problem now is that he will stand stock still till i take the halter off then walk back to the gate, and THEN he turns and gallops off! I guess its not really a danger to humans then, but it does bother the other horses sometimes.. and if they were all fit eventers like him I think we would have a problem!

[wannabegifted]

24/7 turnout, like nature intended. Has done wonders for ALL my horses.

[Hauwse]

Not sure what you can do to correct this if the horse is 20 years old and has gotten away with it for this long, but the basics, turning them away from the field and towards the gate and focusing on you is the first step. I have always taught mine by simply playing with the snap. Idea is simple enough; the sound of the snap or my handling the halter does not mean they are off. They are not off until I verbally tell them to go play.

I do not use contraptions, or snacks, so to stop them from ripping your arm off you can do a couple of different things. First off do not give them any slack in the lead shank to build up momentum. As soon as they start to take off they should know you still have control of the shank. Second, if you are more secure with the horse position yourself so if they want to take off you can turn them off their feet, not one I would try with a horse that may kick, just in case they do break away with the shank. Third do keep the attention focused on you, use your voice and smack them if necessary to keep their attention.

It can be trying but I will sit in the field with them for an hour, playing with snap, and handling the halter if that’s what it takes until they stop anticipating, and start listening to my voice cues, not only is it dangerous for whoever is turning them out but a horse at gallop with a lead shank can do some serious damage to themselves.

However I hazard to guess since this a ground training issue that it is a lot more involved then the horse’s enthusiasm when turning out.

[fair judy]

a 20 year old? simple solution. build a small "stall" in the field. put him in it. take the halter off. provide feed for him to munch on for a little while. let him out of the stall. :)

turn him out first, no matter what . remove the feed after you let him out and be sure to close the "stall" so two horses won't get in it and get into a problem.

its always better to try the passive solution, IMO.

[KnKShowmom]

I like the treat method also - give him one when you put the halter on and one after the halter is off and you will have his undivided attention!

If he wants to be a true butt-head, back him through the gate with the treat in your hand and then daily increase the amount of time before he gets the second treat so he won't learn the snatch and run thing.

[Meshach]

I had the opposite problem when bringing in horses at the barn last night (sometimes I do the feeding and bringing in on the weekends).

I get to this one pasture that has just two mares in it and both are at the gate. I open the gate a little bit and as I am trying to get the halter on one of them, I see that she is getting more and more agitated, starting to practically piaffe. I realize I have about one second to hit the deck before she bolts out the gate and knocks me over.

She ran right to her stall. I think the barn workers sometimes just open the gate and let her run in. yeah, that's safe. Not sure shutting the gate closed first would have been better because then I would have been pinned in w/ nowhere to go. lovely.

[tBHj]

Put two leadropes on him or put a rope halter and lead under his other halter. If he pulls with the second lead rope put a chain on his nose and unbuckle the other leadrope while holding the one with the chain.

I`ve used this method on different horses and it works everytime.

[dags]

Build a stall? Passive is one thing, and a viable route for some, but this is kinda going out of your way to cater to a disobedient horsey . . . and I'm not sure that's the right mentality for getting him to behave because he respects you, essentially, as his superior . . . so that no matter what happens (like a real crisis) he understands he is supposed to listen to, and focus on, you.

This is a pretty basic situation (turning out) that the horse has turned into something quite dangerous. Horse should be made aware that his behavior is not appropriate, and not just tricked into being good.

That said, I still think the treat route is fine for those that want to handle this passively, as the horse is rewarded for not bolting and there's some psychological soundness to that. In a stall he cannot bolt, the situation has just been adjusted to completely remove the factors that cause a problem, thereby avoiding it entirely.

[MHM]

One big carrot.

Half before you turn him loose, half after.

Repeat as needed.

[JumpWithPanache]

I've used the backing up technique on a big 17.2 4yo dumbell of a gelding. He lived in a chain shank though, he knew he was big and knew he could get away with acting stupid. About half the time he had to be backed into his paddock.

My mare will tend to rush and is also of the sensitive type. I've taught her voice cues which were originally taught with treats. I tell her to "come about" as she enters the gate and her hind end does a 180 so her head is facing me and the gate. Initially fed her a treat over the gate, after which she would spin and bolt. But she was already turned loose and I was at a safe distance. It works well for us, and she still gets to have fun spinning and bolting, WITH the proper respect of not doing it near me. She also "comes about" walking into her stall. The voice cue and habit has gotten good enough that she will do it even if there is no lead attached.

[rupenthal2]

Have treats in your pocket, give some on your way out, that will keep his focus on you. Throw some on the ground where you are going to release him..give him another before you unclip lead rope.Does he know the command "Stand", you could reinforce while giving the treat. Then, once lead rope is off, he can eat the treats on the ground and then leave.

Main goal is to have something interesting at the gate, so he isn't inclined to bust loose!

Always have him backed up with head toward you and gate. Much safer. Make sure you can slip behind gate in case he still bolts. This has worked great for me.!!

I have found yanking with a chain just makes them afraid and want to "get our of Dodge "even sooner.

Good Luck.

[ASBnTX]

My 4 yo and I have a routine... After the halter comes off he gets two cookies, then he'll turn his tail to me for butt scratchies, right above his tail, oh he looooooves that!!! He'll stay with me as long as I'm willing to scratch :winkgrin: People that don't know him are are a little alarmed when he turns his rear-end to them and starts backing up towards them :) He's also great about greeting me at the gate, and actually assists me with putting his halter on, then he gets one cookie when we're out of the pasture. I feel like that reinforces that being with me is a good place to be, and it's not just all work.

[meupatdoes]

I would try making the turn out a place where we have to pay attention and work a little before we are set loose.

So maybe go in the field and do some step forward three steps please, back three steps, yield the haunch please, forward three steps, yield the shoulder, back three steps, walk forward eight steps down the fenceline HALT promptly and back three steps. He should be responding fast and snappy and saying "Yes ma'am!" His attention should be on YOU, not on running you over to get to his friends.
Alternatively take him in the field with a longe line and longe him for five minutes before turning him free.
We go to the turnout to do a job and pay attention, THEN we get let loose.

Either way, after his brief "workout" before he gets turned free he gets to STAND QUIETLY for ten seconds, get a treat, STAND QUIETLY for ten more seconds while you rub his neck and socialize calmly with him, get a treat, KEEP STANDING QUIETLY for ten seconds getting petted, get a treat.
Then subtly unclip the lead line and pat him some more. Step back quietly and let him know he's free; hopefully he will have gotten into this "treat parade" and will keep focused on you asking for more.
Then he gets two in quick succession and you quietly step back to leave the paddock.

Both of these tactics should help keep him focused on YOU instead of his own agenda when being turned out.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=rupenthal2;3798137]I have found yanking with a chain just makes them afraid and want to "get our of Dodge "even sooner.
QUOTE]

Agreed. You can ONLY employ the yank after the horse has started to bolt, which means putting your hand behind your leg and basically sitting your ass on the end of the rope, hoping that will break his momentum and spin him around you.

If you start getting pissy and jerky with the rope before he bolts, I find they get pissy right back and they weigh more.

[Divine Comedy]

Mine had a fun habit when he was younger. When you would go to bring him in from the field, he would gallop straight at you. About five strides out he would stop and walk calmly up to you, behaved as can be. Never bothered me, because I knew he would walk, but you always had to warn people who had never brought him in before. Seeing a horse galloping straight at you is never a calming thing.

He did grow out of it though.

[Tiffani B]

I like many of the suggestions offered here that will teach him to pay attention and respect you. I have another one that might work...

Oftentimes horses view the pasture as "play place" and humans get no respect there. I would maybe try working him in the pasture! Take him out there (alone of course) and lunge him for a good 15 minutes or so, in every corner, by the gate, all over... He'll learn to keep his mind on YOU when he's in the pasture, and not worry so much about being free.

Then when you ARE turning him out, he may not be completely sure if he's there to work, or play, so he'll actually pay attention to you.

This is kind of the opposite of something I was taught - never turn a horse out in the arena to play, or he'll start to act like the arena is "play place" when you're there to work and you'll have a devil of a time getting him to focus. So maybe the inverse could work to your favor.

Good luck and stay safe!!

[fair judy]

Build a stall? Passive is one thing, and a viable route for some, but this is kinda going out of your way to cater to a disobedient horsey . . . and I'm not sure that's the right mentality for getting him to behave because he respects you, essentially, as his superior . . . so that no matter what happens (like a real crisis) he understands he is supposed to listen to, and focus on, you.

This is a pretty basic situation (turning out) that the horse has turned into something quite dangerous. Horse should be made aware that his behavior is not appropriate, and not just tricked into being good.

That said, I still think the treat route is fine for those that want to handle this passively, as the horse is rewarded for not bolting and there's some psychological soundness to that. In a stall he cannot bolt, the situation has just been adjusted to completely remove the factors that cause a problem, thereby avoiding it entirely.

the nag is twenty years old. i am nearly three times his age. :lol: it is far more sensible to sink a single post and put up two boards in a corner than fight with an otherwise manageable old man.

my mantra is pick your battles. it took fifty years to realize this is a viable option. this one could easily result in injuring the horse and attendant. if this were a young horse i would advocate the carrot method ........

[dags]

So maybe go in the field and do some step forward three steps please, back three steps, yield the haunch please, forward three steps, yield the shoulder, back three steps, walk forward eight steps down the fenceline HALT promptly and back three steps. He should be responding fast and snappy and saying "Yes ma'am!" His attention should be on YOU, not on running you over to get to his friends.
Alternatively take him in the field with a longe line and longe him for five minutes before turning him free.
We go to the turnout to do a job and pay attention, THEN we get let loose.



These are great ideas :)

as is the tip about burying your hand behind your leg when using the chain/any lead . . . oh, how many times that has successfully saved my arse . . .

[dags]

the nag is twenty years old. i am nearly three times his age. :lol: it is far more sensible to sink a single post and put up two boards in a corner than fight with an otherwise manageable old man.


And a reminder that all situations are different, and to select those remedies that will jive best with your own talents and situation :)

lots of great suggestions here, have we heard back from OP?

[cheval80]

That's such a dangerous habit. Give him something he loves to eat every single time he gets turned out, AFTER the halter comes off. He'll learn pretty fast to stick around. All my horses know this and I never have a problem.

The above is a great solution. Just make sure they know they're about to bee fed. Sometimes, the sound of grain works better than a carrot.

[mjrtango93]

Well from someone that used to have to do the turn outs for a boarding barn with several naughty ponies you have a couple options to try......the treat thing works great, but only if they are more motivated by food then their freedom. We had 3 geldings that could have cared less what you were trying to shove in their mouth if their friends were out. The lunge line with chain thing works wonders but definately be wearing gloves and if possible have the lunge around something solid like a post to give you leverage if needed. We had a 17.3 monster of a horse that a young girl had brought in that you couldn't hold onto unless you had the rope around a post. He hit the end of that line a couple times with the chain and decided perhaps waiting with you was a better idea. The final thing we've done with a couple of the dangerous naughty ones was to put a lip chain on them for leading in and out. The lip chain actually helps relax them because of the endorphines so you can walk them in to release the halter (not to mention in the case of our 1500# you could hold unto him if he went nutty). The biggest thing is just don't teach them poor behavior. Don't let them run in or out by themself, always have a halter with lead on, and always walk them through the gate and then turn and face out so you are not in the pasture before you release. I have seen too many people kicked in the stomach from even well behaved horses because they were in the pasture and the horse bucked as they took off.

[Go Fish]

Whoa means whoa until I say so...

[mp]

Question for magnum - or cesar milan, if he's reading; do you really think horses are this conniving, ie, that they plot to bolt, and you can readjust their thinking with a bit of to-ing and fro-ing via the barn? Just curious?

They don't "plot" to do anything. But there are subtle signs that you're losing a horse's attention. And if you're keyed in to those, you can prevent the bolting/balking/rearing/whatever before it happens. It may seem to us that a horse does something "all of a sudden and for no reason." But the horse always has a reason and I can guarantee you that 99.9% of the time, there were clear signs that the handler/rider ignored or just didn't notice.

OP, the turn to the gate and treat method is what I used to break two mares of that habit. One was pretty hard core, so I did a little clicker training with her away from the turnout -- ask her to stand facing me with her halter on *click* she got a treat. When that was solid, then it was stand/remove halter, *click* treat. Then it was stand/face/remove halter/stand some more, *click* treat. When we finally got to the gate, there was no way she was going to run off without her treat.

Good luck.

PS -- being vigilant for signs your horse is tuning you out is not a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's simply becoming more aware of your horse.

[Hilary]

my old TB gelding does this too. He goes out first, he's had hay in his stall so he's not anticipating getting to his hay, he's only been in for an hour to eat his breakfast and is otherwise out 24/7, but he is SO EXCITED to go back out he can't contain himself.

Sometimes I let him go (it's my barn, no boarders etc) because the more you try to contain him the more frantic he gets.

But sometimes he gets out of line and starts bolting out of his stall, not just zooming away once he's out and then it's chain over the nose and I take a step, halt, step halt until we are out. He will canter in place as we get closer to the door but he does respect me.

Then he'll stop doing it for months and calmly go in and out.

[Kyzteke]

Cross post from Eventing and Hunter/Jumper.

Problem: Our 20 year TB retired eventer will NOT stand when released in his pasture. He does that bolting thing, which scares everybody who gets the short straw and has to take him out. It really only happens when its cold (at least what we consider cold in south Louisiana). He is always the second (and last) horse in that pasture. We face him in the direction of the pasture and his friend (so we don't get kicked when he wheels) and put the rope around his neck, etc. but he makes such a big move its hard to keep him in place until WE want him to go.

Solution: ?????

Other than the suggestions already made, perhaps make him the FIRST horse turned loose?

[Spectrum]

When I began my first working student position, I discovered that the two current working students had basically trained all the young horses to take off into their fields. They would walk the young horses down to the fields two at a time and then it was a race to see if they could get the clips and chains off the halters before the horses took off into their paddocks as they walked through the gate. They had been reduced to leaving halters on the young horses all day because they'd started bolted as the halters were being removed.

It was all totally due to laziness and inattention on the part of the workers leading the horses out, and we had the youngsters 90% retrained within a week. I volunteered to lead all the "crazy" ones, refused to lead them 2 at a time until they were marching around like good little soldiers, and no horse had a halter removed unless it was sitting stock still and facing the fence. I kept two leads on them, a chain and a non-chain.

All halters had chin clips and were removed over the ears. If I had to sit for 15 minutes while the horse tried to yank away as the halter was removed, I'd do it, refusing to pull the halter over the ears if the horse moved even slightly. Once the horses figured out that they were shanking themselves every time they tried to jerk away, they quit. They got into a routine- behave while being led, behave while being released, play time doesn't start until the halter is *completely* off.

If you give them no ability to take off, they won't take off. If you try to be faster in getting out of their way, they'll treat you like you're not getting out of the way fast enough. Who is the boss here? Once you establish that, problem solved.

Spectrum.

[narcisco]

I am going to reiterate the warning that chains and double halters and lines should be left to the hands of the professionals.

In some way, you are setting the horse up for failure. The horse has been trained to run when the halter is released. Until you re-train him for a new behavior, it is ambushing him to hit him suddenly with a chain.

Horses need to be chain trained well before the chain is used in an emergency situation, or you risk flipping the horse over. In addition, I have seen some really sad accidents where the horse escaped with the chain and line. You can cause permanent damage to the jaw and nose if the horse steps on the line or tangles in something while he is running.

[Moderator 2]

We have merged the three threads and moved the all to Horse Care - where the question belongs.

Lots of good advice here!!

Mod 2

[Star Creek]

We had a problem with a horse that would take off as soon as as he heard the snap click. What I did was put a lunge line on him with a chain over his nose. When we got to the paddock I clicked the snap but did not take it off. He took off and hit the end of the line. He did this TWICE and I never had a problem again.

Christa

PS I wonder if another possibility would be some kind of small pen set up where you could take the halter off in a confined area and then open a gate to the pasture.

I did this same thing but with just a strong thick lead line (and wearing gloves). It only took a few times for my 17hh mare to hit the end of the lead before she stopped that nonsense.